Oil

[NickHassan]

Hi,

There will come a time when it is too late to obtain oil. It is needed to keep your lamps alight. You must be ready if you are to meet the returning King. Fill your flasks now. The supplier has plenty and loves to give to all His children who ask.

[Oxy]

Very true. Check out http://www.all4god.net and view the PowerPoint presentation on the Beyond Pentecost page.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Why be a bridesmaid waiting but not ready?
Keep the oil of The Spirit.

[Not3in1]

What do you think the oil represents?
The spirit? I don't know…..

What do other's think?
Mandy

[seek and you will find]

Mandy I believe it is the Spirit that we should ask for and use it to search out the Scriptures. Without God's Holy Spirit we could not understand the things of God.
Preace and Love Irene

[Not3in1]

Did the virgins need the spirit and they ran out of “it”?
How could they go buy more?

Was the spirit (oil) needed to greet the bridegroom?

These are the things I'm wondering about in regards to the virgins and their lamps (see Nicks posts).
Thanks,
Mandy

[seek and you will find]

Mandy! Yes, you need the Spirit in order to stay close to God and learn of His ways. That is the Oil  our Souls need to survive and learn to be more like Christ. The more we overcome the more God will strengthen us and give us more of His Spirit. That is why 10 Virgin want to keep their Oil or Spirit. I also believe that once God has shown you a truth like the Trinity's stay strong and do not go back, like some have done. The whole W.W.Church of God did and it has made me so sad cause the are my friends and Family. That too shows us that we are in the end times and we are to come out of Her my people it says in Rev.
So be strong keep what is good, don't  look back and we will be with Christ in Paradise soon, Mandy
Peace and Love Irene

[charity]

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 16 2008,04:02)

Did the virgins need the spirit and they ran out of “it”? How could they go buy more? Was the spirit (oil) needed to greet the bridegroom? These are the things I'm wondering about in regards to the virgins and their lamps (see Nicks posts). Thanks, Mandy

Yes feels a bit hopeless…
Compare this man…rather like a Bride suggesting to a already bald man, that not one hair on head will perish while he still have his hope to wait?

[Shania]

Quote (charity @ May 16 2008,21:53)

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 16 2008,04:02) Did the virgins need the spirit and they ran out of “it”? How could they go buy more? Was the spirit (oil) needed to greet the bridegroom? These are the things I'm wondering about in regards to the virgins and their lamps (see Nicks posts). Thanks, Mandy Yes feels a bit hopeless… Compare this man…rather like a Bride suggesting to a already bald man, that not one hair on head will perish while he still have his hope to wait?

“Yes feels a bit hopeless…
Compare this man…rather like a Bride suggesting to a already bald man, that not one hair on head will perish while he still have his hope to wait?”

What?

[Shania]

Ok- I just did a search on “oil” and there are 211 matches in the NIV. I noticed something as I skimmed through them: there seems to be two types of oil in scripture: annointing oil and oil for light/lamps. The oil for light is always olive oil.

Ex 35:13-14
14 the lampstand that is for light with its accessories, lamps and oil for the light
NIV

Ex 35:28
28 They also brought spices and olive oil for the light and for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense.
NIV

Ex 39:37-38
37 the pure gold lampstand with its row of lamps and all its accessories, and the oil for the light;
NIV

Lev 24:1-2
24:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Command the Israelites to bring you clear oil of pressed olives for the light so that the lamps may be kept burning continually.
NIV

How do you get olive oil? You have to press and crush the olive. Anyone know what Gethsemane means? It literally means “olive press.”

The virgins had to go and buy oil. This means that there was a cost. Here is another example of “buying”:
Rev 3:16-19
I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline
NIV

You see, His discipline is love. Some may think that it is mean for Him to tell us to “buy”, but it is love. It is only through crushing that oil comes. It is only through fire that gold is refined.

If our master was perfected through suffering, why should we be different?
The suffering is not always for your own sin [Messiah had none and he suffered]. However, it is through pressure that the oil comes. In your trials and hardships, if you turn your heart to the Father, and you trust Him with everything, He will sustain you with His oil. Pressure forces you to do one of two things:
1) submit to the Father
2) turn your heart from Him/ distance yourself from Him.

This doesn't mean that if you go through a trial you get oil. The only way that you can get oil is to use that trial to produce in your heart what He is looking for. Turn to Him- oil comes through relationship. That is why the Bridegroom said, “I don't know you.” That is why the 5 wise virgins could not give any of their oil- you cannot give to someone what you obtained through intimacy/prayer. They have to get it themselves…

This is all very rushed and quickly written… I apologize.

[Shania]

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 16 2008,20:02)

Was the spirit (oil) needed to greet the bridegroom?

The Spirit (oil) is needed in order to light the lamp, in order to see the bridegroom.

You see, Jesus(Yahushua) had the light of His Father. The only good that was in Him was His Father. We are the same. We have put on Messiah and we have fellowship with the Father through Him and that is how we obtain oil to walk in the light. If we do not have oil in our lamps, we walk in darkness.

1 John 1:5-7

5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light ; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light , as he is in the light , we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
NIV

John 12:35-36

35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light , before darkness overtakes you. The man who walks in the dark does not know where he is going. 36 Put your trust in the light while you have it, so that you may become sons of light .” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them.
NIV

John 12:46
46 I have come into the world as a light , so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
NIV

John 12:35-36

35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light , before darkness overtakes you. The man who walks in the dark does not know where he is going. 36 Put your trust in the light while you have it, so that you may become sons of light .” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them.
NIV

John 12:46
46 I have come into the world as a light , so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
NIV

1 John 3:2-3
But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him , for we shall see him as he is. 3 Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.
NIV

How do you see him as he is? You have to be like him. This is why you purify yourself- because he is pure and you are becoming like him. He is light the light of the world. So are you- because he lives inside of you. As you are purified, you get more and more light. This purification process is not easy; it comes with a cost- you give up your life. However, in return you get Him. You get the oil of the Spirit. He is your reward.

Rev 22:6
5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light . And they will reign for ever and ever.
NIV

Rev 12:11
11 They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
NIV

Rev 3:21
21 To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.
NIV

[942767]

Very good post Shania!! God Bless You and Your Family.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Shania @ May 17 2008,13:33)

You see, Jesus(Yahushua) had the light of His Father.  The only good that was in Him was His Father.  We are the same.

The inference here is that Yeshua was/is simply a man possessed by the Spirit of God, like all Holy Spirit filled believers. I emphatically reject this notion on the grounds that it is unscriptural. Yes, in some respects He is just like us, but in others He is not like us at all. We did not “exist in the form of God” before our natural birth (Phil 2:7). It is not said of us that we “laid the foundation of the earth” nor is it said of us that “the heavens are the work of your hands” (Heb 1:10). Our births were not the result of a union between a woman and the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). We are certainly not the exact representation of the Father's substance/essence (Gr. hypostasis) in our being. The “fullness of Deity” does not dwell in us in bodily form. The word for Paul used for deity (theotes) is never once even applied to us. We are not “in the Father” (John 14:10), nor will our spirits indwell other believers when we die (2 Corinthians 13:5). We will never (legitimately) be called “YHWH” (Zech 14:4) or “Alpha and Omega” (Rev 22:13) or “Lord of all” (Acts 10:30). We will never be able to “uphold all things by the power of our word” (Heb 1:3).

Evidently there is a BIG difference between Yeshua and us. Shania, how do you respond to this?

[Not3in1]

Hi Shania,

Your posts have shed so much light on a weary soul tonight. God bless you. Even though you said you were rushed and quickly wrote things down – you'll never know how much it blessed me. Thanks, sister.
Love,
Mandy

[Shania]

Hey Is 1:18!

At the risk of turning this discussion away from its set topic, I will answer:

1 John 2:5-6
6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
NIV

Jesus is our elder brother. No, we are not like Him in every way. We will never be the Messiah; we are not sinless; all authority in Heaven and on earth was not given to us.

However, we are to be like Him. He came so that we could have a real, direct relationship with our Father. He had that relationship because he was not hindered by sin. He mediated on behalf of us so that we could know the Father through himself (the son).

John 17:1-3
17:1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
NIV

What was he giving? Eternal life. What is eternal life? To know Him [our Father]. This implies relationship. Salvation is not about fire insurance. You are not saved from merely going to Hell. Hell is outer darkness- without the presence of the Father. You are saved from your wicked nasty self. You are made able to have communion with the Most High. Your salvation is that you are transformed into His image {wasn't that the plan all along… Genesis?}

You are supposed to be like him. He is the pattern son:

1 John 3:2-3
2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him , for we shall see him as he is. 3 Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.
NIV

John 14:11-14
12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
NIV

Rev 3:21-22
21 To him who overcomes , I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.
NIV

[Is 1:18]

Hi Shania,
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote and I appreciate the fact that you cited scripture to support your perspective. Yes, Yeshua is like our elder brother. But I don't think we can just pigeon hole him there. He is also like our husband, shepherd, king, high priest, messiah, Lord and God (and a lot in between!). He is many things to us. And He is no one thing to the exclusion of all the others.

Shania, I made a number of points in my last post and was hoping you might respond to some or all of them. I think they challenge this notion that Yeshua was simple a man possessed by the Holy Spirit. If you'd like me to substantiate them I'm happy to do this.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
Whom do you worship?
Do you follow Jesus and worship his God?
Do you worship the God of Jesus who Jesus himself identified as our God?[Jn20]

[Shania]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 18 2008,12:25)

Yes, Yeshua is like our elder brother. But I don't think we can just pigeon hole him there.

I completely agree with this statement. My intet was not to pigeon-hole our Messiah. I will adress your previous post in my next post.

I do not believe in the trinity- you got me! I have no problem explaining my views, but I do not wish to deviate from this topic and turn it into a debate about the trinity. Understand that I love you and respect you as a fellow believer. I know that I cannot convince anyone whose mind is set; that is why I am not a debater. [By saying this, I am ot accusing you of anything; just explaining my heart in the matter]

However, since you asked, I will answer

[Shania]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 18 2008,12:25)

Shania, I made a number of points in my last post and was hoping you might respond to some or all of them.

Hi Is 1:18!
You mentioned Phil 2:7. To get a good view of the context, here is the whole paragraph:

Phil 2:5-11

5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,

Here is the Greek word for “nature” and its definition:

NT:3444 morfee

f: the nature or character of something, with emphasis upon both the internal and external form – 'nature, character.'

(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

My interpretation of this is that Yahushua contained the nature and character of Elohim. We are all supposed to possess the Spirit and the Fruit of the Spirit. If the Spirit is God, then the fruit of the Spirit are His characteristics. No, I am not saying that we are all to be exactly like the almighty- nor are we to be “gods” (like in mormon doctrine)
Think of this- what hinders us from becoming like the Father? What hinders us from being so close in unity that we are one with Him like in a marriage relationship? Sin. Yahushua was without sin. He was able to hold the very nature and character of Elohim [God]

did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Words have to mean what they mean. He was not equal with God and He did not consider grasping it. [Like Satan previously had]

7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,

YHWH cannot change.
Mal 3:6

6 “I the LORD do not change .
NIV

James 1:17-18
17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
NIV

being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death —
even death on a cross!

Can God humble himself? Can He who is unchangeable lower Himself?

9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place

God exalted him. This statement identifies one party (the Father) as God and the other as someone lower in position. Can God move up in position? He already has everything…

and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
NIV

This last statement identifies Jesus as Lord [Master] and the Father as God.

Can you have an authority that is representing the greater authority? Of course. We see it in business and politics all the time.

Here are a few cross references for what I have been talking about:

James 1:13

13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
NIV

Heb 4:15-16
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are — yet was without sin.
NIV

Here are some statements about YHWH:

Num 23:19
19 God is not a man , that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
NIV

1 Sam 15:28-29
29 He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man , that he should change his mind.”
NIV

Job 9:32

32 “He is not a man like me that I might answer him,
NIV

This is all the time that I have right now, but I will get back to you.

Much love,
Shania

[Shania]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 18 2008,07:16)

We are not “in the Father” (John 14:10)

John 14:10

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
KJV

John 17:21
21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.
NIV

If this “oneness” is what made Jesus deity, then logic would follow that we were all deity…

John 17:21
May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
NIV

We are in the Father, through the son.

[Author]

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