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Adding to this, IS 1:18,
Christine Elizabeth King wrote: “Only against the Witnesses was the [Nazi] government unsuccessful, for although they had killed thousands, the work went on and in May 1945 the Jehovah’s Witness movement was still alive, whilst National Socialism was not. The Witnesses’ numbers had increased and no compromises had been made. The movement had gained martyrs and had successfully waged one more battle in Jehovah God’s war.”—The Nazi State and the New Religions: Five Case Studies in Non-Conformity, page 193.
A victim is defined as “one who is harmed or killed by another . . . One who is harmed by or made to suffer from an act, circumstance, agency, or condition.” On the other hand, a martyr is “one who chooses to suffer death rather than renounce religious principles. . . . One who makes great sacrifices or suffers much in order to further a belief, cause, or principle.”—The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition.
“one who chooses to suffer death rather than renounce religious principles.”
Its interesting that in the Nazi camps, JW's were the only ones who could simply walk away, at any time. All they had to do was “renounce” their faith, sign a document stating this and heil hitler and be on their way. They're the only group in those camps who could simply leave like this. Only a handful out of thousands did so and they later regretted it and wanted back in. Many died. They were what you could call by definition, martyrs.I tend to mention this example because it is well known and people know what I'm talking about. While there were a few of other religions that were imprisoned because of THEIR BELIEFS they did so against their religious leaders and the great majority of their fellow believers who tolerated and even blessed the things that were going on.
–In September 1939, World War II began, and in October 1940, the New Zealand government banned the activity of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
We were no longer alowed to preach there, or share the good news with others in NZ. I can't help but think we were the only group. Nick or T8, correct me if i'm wrong.
But of course, just as the religious leaders in Jesus day forbid the disciples to preach, JW's had the same attitude of those Christians who said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.”For Is 1:18 and others who live in the U.S.:
From Wickipedia:
United States
U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice Harlan Fiske Stone wrote, “The Jehovah's Witnesses ought to have an endowment in view of the aid which they give in solving the legal problems of civil liberties.”
In the United States numerous cases involving Jehovah's Witnesses are now landmark decisions of First Amendment law. In all, Jehovah's Witnesses brought 23 separate First Amendment actions before the U.S. Supreme Court between 1938 and 1946.
The most important U.S. Supreme Court legal victory won by the Witnesses was in the case West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette, in which the court ruled that school children could not be forced to pledge allegiance to or salute the U.S. flag. The Barnette decision overturned an earlier case, Minersville School District vs. Gobitis (1940), in which the court had held that Witnesses could be forced against their will to pay homage to the flag.
In a more recent case, Jehovah's Witnesses refused to get government permits to solicit door-to-door in Stratton, Ohio. In 2002, the case was heard in the U.S. Supreme Court (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society v. Village of Stratton). The Court ruled in favor of the Jehovah's Witnesses, ensuring the freedom of all to go door-to-door without obtaining permits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki….tnessesAs it also says:
“Internationally there have been numerous Supreme Court cases involving Jehovah's Witnesses.“Jehovah's Witnesses unlike any other group seem to be busy in the defending and legally establishing of the good news. (Phil 1:7)
This is because unlike any other group, we are everywhere preaching the good news of the kingdom, even where this is not legal. Other groups tend to stay out of those areas. The Mormons being one example.
Wickipedia states:
“[Mormon] Missionaries receive their assignment from Church headquarters and are sent only to countries where governments allow the Church to operate.”This is not so with JW's. We feel that everyone deserves to hear the greatest news of all time, whether your country allows you to hear that news or not. We believe that if we are thrown in prison or whatever, it is worth it, and are greatful to be treated this way because of our commission.
(Mark 13:10) “Also, in ALL THE NATIONS the good news has to be preached first.”
(Acts 5:28-29) “and said: “We positively ordered YOU not to keep teaching upon the basis of this name, and yet, look! YOU have filled Jerusalem with YOUR teaching, and YOU are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.” 29 In answer Peter and the [other] apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.”
This obeying “God as ruler rather than men” tends to get JW's into contention with the authorities when it comes to their preaching work and their neutrality in warefare.
I say this again, loudly, Is 1:18, you need to get some perspective. I'd start with your own country.
Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that in the majority of countries they have legal status or are recognized as having basic rights afforded them similar to those of mainstream religions. [1] In many areas, government officials have praised their work in the fields of linguistic education along with disaster management relief in instances of national or international crisis. However, the Witnesses face legal or governmental opposition in many countries. [2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_and_governmentsSince we are often praised for disaster management relief (because we are so extraordinarily organized) or education, we are at the very same time opposed by the same governements because of our preaching work, primarily.
The same article also states:
the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses explicitly require that they are law-abiding except where their [Bible based] beliefs are in direct conflict with governmental regulationsThe same article also says this:
United StatesIn the United States, many Supreme Court cases involving Jehovah's Witnesses have shaped First Amendment law. Significant cases affirmed rights such as these:
* Right to Refrain from Compulsory Flag Salute – West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette
* Conscientious objection to military service
* Preaching in public (proselytizing)By 1988, the U.S. Supreme Court had reviewed 71 cases involving Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization, two-thirds of which were decided in their favor.
This article also states:
The struggle of Witnesses in “defending and legally establishing the Good News” as they would put it, is ongoing IN VIRTUALLY EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. [Caps added] A representative but by no means comprehensive list follows:United States: Supreme Court case on freedom of speech in 2002 sets aside town ordinance restricting Witness activity, lower level legal activity is incessant.
Canada: Quebec Court of Appeal case on “freedom of thought, belief, opinion, and expression” sets aside town ordinance restricting Witness activity
Peru: Superior Court of Justice of Lambayeque in 2000 upholds right of Witness parents to control medical care of their children. A mother had been charged with neglect and endangerment for selecting successful non-blood medical treatment for her 10 year old son.
Eritrea: Eritrean Witnesses were stripped of citizenship and basic human rights in 1994 and have since widely experienced loss of employment, refusal of medical treatment, refusal of identity documents, arrest for assembly, proselitizing, and conscientious objection, as well as imprisonment for upwards of a decade, in some cases.
Rwanda: In 2005 the Presiding Judge of the Provincial Court in Ruhengeri ruled that Witnesses should not be imprisoned for refusing to bear arms in civil defense 'night patrols' since they were willing to participate and had participated in other forms of community service. 297 Witnesses had been imprisoned on such charges in an 8 month period of 2004. 143 of those imprisoned had been severely beaten.
Nigeria: In 2001 the Nigerian Supreme court unanimously decided in favor of the Witness right to medical self-determination in the case of blood transfusion.
Japan: The Supreme court in 2000 upheld the principle of “informed consent” with regard to a Witness patient's right to refuse a blood transfusion. The Supreme court in 1996 upheld the right of Japanese Witness students to refuse martial arts training as part of physical education. Witnesses had been refused diplomas, forced to repeat a year of school, suspended and expelled based on their refusal to 'learn war.'
South Korea: The Supreme Court in 2004 upheld 7-2 as constitutional the law regarding compulsory military service which has resulted in more than 10,000 Witnesses serving prison terms in South Korea. In April 2005 more than 1000 Witnesses were serving prison terms in South Korea based on their conscientious objection to military service. However, 7 of the court's 9 members, including 5 of those in the majority, expressed a recommendation that the legislature add an alternative service option to the statute.
Yes, it is about objects of hatred.
“Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.”
Hi david,
There is no group membership entry possible into the body of Christ.
All must apply one at a time, alone.Quote David,
I do not live in the USA.
Really? I was sure you did. Where do you live? I think it was because of the sports you mentioned.Quote Hi david,
There is no group membership entry possible into the body of Christ.
All must apply one at a time, alone.
Of cousre everyone is responsible for themselves. But God has had a people throughout history. He is a God of organization. And he has fortold a great work for our time, one that requires vast amounts of organisation. (mat 24:14) And JW's seem to be the only one who take this work seriously.Hence, much of the persecution I mentioned above that Is 1:18 ignored.
Quote (david @ April 01 2007,19:44) Yes, it is about objects of hatred. “Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.”
Then that includes a very large variety of christians. Not just JW'sI'm curious to know why other groups are objects of hatred “by all the nations.”
I know that people dislike JW's for a variety of reasons.
I'm curious to know why other groups are persecuted or looked down on.Hi david,
You call being helped to understand where you are being deceived persecution?
It is love, tough love.Quote You call being helped to understand where you are being deceived persecution? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses
In the United States in the late 1930s and into 1940, especially during wartime, mob violence against Jehovah's Witnesses became rampant. On June 16, 1940, the United States attorney general, Francis Biddle, made a radio broadcast over a coast-to-coast network in an effort to quiet the mob action, saying in part:
” . . . Jehovah's witnesses have been repeatedly set upon and beaten. They had committed no crime; but the mob adjudged they had, and meted out mob punishment. The Attorney General has ordered an immediate investigation of these outrages. The people must be alert and watchful, and above all cool and sane. Since mob violence will make the government's task infinitely more difficult, it will not be tolerated. We shall not defeat the Nazi evil by emulating its methods.”
–WikipediaOf course, today, in the U.S. where we have been busy “in the defending and legally establishing of the good news” (Phil 1:7)
And so, as Wikipedia says:
“As legal battles were won to establish their rights to preach from “door to door” and abstain from patriotic activities in schools, and the US society increasingly became more tolerant of non-mainstream viewpoints…”But we are presently “illegal” in about 26 countries I think. Or at least, our going door to door or meeting together for worship is.
Nick, in what way have you been an object of hatred by all the nations?
Hi david,
Have you?
Or has your religion?
Are you only known by the religion you support?What of Christ?
2 CORINTHIANS 11:23-27
“Are they ministers of Christ? I reply like a madman, I am more outstandingly one: in labors more plentifully, in prisons more plentifully, in blows to an excess, in near-deaths often. By Jews I five times received forty strokes less one, three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I experienced shipwreck, a night and a day I have spent in the deep; in journeys often, in dangers from rivers, in dangers from highwaymen, in dangers from [my own] race, in dangers from the nations, in dangers in the city, in dangers in the wilderness, in dangers at sea, in dangers among false brothers, in labor and toil, in sleepless nights often, in hunger and thirst, in abstinence from food many times, in cold and nakedness.”2 TIMOTHY 3:12
“In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted.”Hi david,
That is about Paul.
What of yourself?
We should be known for our love and respected for our attitudes and our dealings with people so they can give glory to God.Yes, it is about Paul.
And what would you say to Paul if he said those words to you, as he has done?
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