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Quote Quote LOL .. so David… are you saying, that because a lot of people hate the JW's, that this is proof that you guys are the true brethren of Christ? hehehe Phoenix, what I had said was this:
if you aren't persecuted, or don't come against various trials because of your beliefs, you may want to ask yourself some hard questions.
I am simply stating this fact:
2 TIMOTHY 3:12
“In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted.”Quote JWs hate Catholicism, so being a Catholic must be extremely holy. He he.
Jesus followers were hated because they were “no part of the world.”
Catholics are decidedly a part of the world. In fact, they joined church and stated and basically married the world. It went from Christians being hated and persecuted to the “Christians” coming into power and suddenly doing the persecuting (on true Christians) themselves.Quote “If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, the servant is not greater than his lord, if they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you: if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not sin: but now they have not cloke for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not sin: but now they have both seen and hated both me and my Father. BUT THIS COMETH TO PASS, THAT THE WORD MIGHT BE FULFILLED THAT IS WRITTEN IN THEIR LAW, THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE”. (John 15:18-25) Good point 94. They hated Jesus without justfied cause. It would be similar with his disciples. Despite being the most peaceable, they would be despised and frowned on by society, outcasts, useless rubbish. These are words the ways that early Christians were described from the standpoint of society. Maybe it was because they didn't run for office or engage in warefare, or were mostly concerned with spreading the good news. But they were hated, and not rightly so.
I imagine it should be similar today.David, if you think the Watchtower are genuinely persecuted, you need to get some perspective. Read up on the christians in China, for example, who are tortured, imprisoned and die for their faith in Jesus. What WT has ever died for their faith in Jesus? Do they even have one? They invest so much energy in contrasting Him from “God”, and have such a (relatively) low opinion of Him, that they could barely be said to have a faith. Why would you want to 'live for' an incarnate angel? A creature!
Do you love Yeshua David?
Ever tell Him that?
Christians have theological differences with the Watchtower adherents David – but this is not persecution. You can expect Chrisians to disagree with you when the theology you parrot on behalf of your organisation is so perverse and its history so replete with physiological manipulation, false prophecies and scholastic dishonesty.
Please note David – this is not a personal comment on you (well save for the 'persecution complex' I'm accusing you of having), just the organisation that has duped you…
Quote David, if you think the Watchtower are genuinely persecuted, you need to get some perspective. Read up on the christians in China, for example, who are tortured, imprisoned and die for their faith in Jesus. What WT has ever died for their faith in Jesus? Do they even have one? They invest so much energy in contrasting Him from “God”, and have such a (relatively) low opinion of Him, that they could barely be said to have a faith. Why would you want to 'live for' an incarnate angel? A creature! Is 1:18, I'm afraid you are extremely confused again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_and_the_Holocaust
YOu're from the U.S. I take it?
“The principal victims of religious persecution in the United States in the twentieth century were the Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
–The Court and the Constitution, by Archibald Cox (1987)Quote (david @ Mar. 23 2007,11:34) Quote David, if you think the Watchtower are genuinely persecuted, you need to get some perspective. Read up on the christians in China, for example, who are tortured, imprisoned and die for their faith in Jesus. What WT has ever died for their faith in Jesus? Do they even have one? They invest so much energy in contrasting Him from “God”, and have such a (relatively) low opinion of Him, that they could barely be said to have a faith. Why would you want to 'live for' an incarnate angel? A creature! Is 1:18, I'm afraid you are extremely confused again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_and_the_Holocaust
YOu're from the U.S. I take it?
“The principal victims of religious persecution in the United States in the twentieth century were the Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
–The Court and the Constitution, by Archibald Cox (1987)
I would have to disagree with that quote you have there by Archibald??It was the Jews that were the principal victims for religious reasons I believe.
“…the definition of the Holocaust, defining it as the genocide of the Jews, or what the Nazis called the “Final Solution of the Jewish Question””
The JW's were only executed because they refused to participate in any of the NAZI regime. Jews were executed because they were… just Jews. They were destined to die anyway. They never got a choice. JW's did.
Hugs
PhoenixI think that the this Hatred comes from a form of false doctrine, the anti Christ doctrine against the covenant of David
Basically it is those that uphold Moses laws to annul there covenant with death that are the haters. Good scribes of Moses.
Against those that keep David’s covenant and obey to enter rest, building up the throne of the father and Son.This throne was reestablished under mosses covenant, no mercy grace or fruit of love.
Neh 10:29 They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes; (Rejecting Davids crown)
Neh 13:25 And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, [saying], Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.This kingdom was the kingdom that hated Christ who was sent to sit on his father’s throne.
This is the arriving of the Christ into such hatred as from a throne that appears to be doing Gods work?? A man child sent to repair the breach
Isa 66:1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, The heaven [is] my throne, and the earth [is] my footstool: where [is] the house that ye build unto me? and where [is] the place of my rest?
Isa 66:2 For all those [things] hath mine hand made, and all those [things] have been, saith the LORD: but to this [man] will I look, [even] to [him that is] poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
Isa 66:3 ¶ He that killeth an ox [is as if] he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, [as if] he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, [as if he offered] swine's blood; he that burneth incense, [as if] he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose [that] in which I delighted not.
Isa 66:5 ¶ Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
Isa 66:6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? [or] shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.And we are reminded by those after ..Who have received the law by the disposition of angels
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven [is] my throne, and earth [is] my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what [is] the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.
Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Act 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept [it].Rest where obeying Davids covenant which will unulle death to everlasting life. Gods will
Hbr 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Hbr 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.This is what christ thinks of those that hold fast to his name and satan dwells amongest them and they refuse the key of David to enter their rest and conquer their beast.
Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
ywe become captive to the lord walking incoruptible with christ if obeyedGod bless you david
charity
Nehemiah your Key chief Pharisee who was and is not yet is. That Man of Lawlessness inflicting hate ;after the sure mercies of David that our soul shall live, setting up the temple and sitting himself up as God?
Voiding David’s covenant for as a good scribe of Moses?
Observe but donot do as the Pharisees do?
Move that lawless man out of the way So christ can come for you?
For he shall only prevent those who alow him to prevent christ coming?charity
The author of confusion
The cup bearer to the king Babylon setting up Gods temple under the authorization of Babylon
Mystery Babylon The great serving his cup to Gods people and today they drink and become deceived and as drunkards holding fast the name of Jesus
Behold he has set up a snare and trap
A rock and key to build a church on.charity
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2007,01:03) Hi charity,
Are you above Nehemiah?
Hate can BE sly
Hate can appear as Nice, but its in the heart OPERATING as perfect in flesh
PURGE IT OUT AND BE PURIFYED
Rejoice when you find jealousyNEHEMIAH bluntly refuses to acknowledge a chosen KING because the kingdom was under a differing covenant to Moses
Neh 9:34 Neither have *our kings*, our princes, our priests, nor our fathers, kept thy law, nor hearkened unto thy commandments and thy testimonies, wherewith thou didst testify against them.DECEIVED
Neh 9:35 For they have not served thee in their kingdom, and in thy great goodness that thou gavest them, and in the large and fat land which thou gavest before them, neither turned they from their wicked works.And ENTERS Israel into a curse
God said
Psa 89:19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon [one that is] mighty; I have exalted [one] chosen out of the people.
Psa 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
Psa 89:21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
Psa 89:22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
Psa 89:23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.My giddy Aunt Nick, just because a book is in the bible?
MARY didn’t pull back the covers to show the three wise men a book??Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2007,01:52) Hi charity,
Do not despise whom God approves lest you make your self greater that Him.
well thankyou for telling me what is in your heart Nick
Its good to find.
Nehemiha also judged Davids heart
Neh 9:34 Neither have *our kings*, our princes, our priests, nor our fathers, kept thy law
Don't Trust in your own judgement as Nehemiah has
I am whoever I am and no more or no less as God decides.Are you that trapped that you may not focus on a kingdom for a moment that has been set up in the God of Israel Name that tortures and kills and separates families?
It’s not a wonder these days that people look on God as cruel and harsh un loving and miss judge the suffering towards righteousness, and drive the children along in fear.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2007,02:17) Hi Charity,
Did he mention all the kings?
King David never made the sure mercy of David a law
So therefore if not a law THE SINNERS ARE NOT ABLIGED TO OBEY
King David set up alters for those that needed to continue sacrifice whose hearts had not yet leant what sin was.
But for him and those that heard him
A sacrifice and offering God was full off and away with me you that try to draw near oaths
And it’s not a wonder Christ turned the tables in the temple up in anger for here they were still not understanding a covenant given 1000 yrs before
And for them Christ new he would give his life for deaf ears and rise again under the sure mercies of David.
A continuation of the threshing floor sacrifice that God bruised David and caused him to sacrifice for the whole of the kingdom to come, and this included the first Son of God sent the first Life of the New creation that Christ finished the one and only sacrifice David ever offer towards entering the rest for Israel
Except you see Christ did not give rest, but God made it in a day with DavidI shall except good hearty correction on this from someone with the mind of God
Ezr 5:13 But in the first year of Cyrus the king of Babylon [the same] king Cyrus made a decree to build this house of God.
Ezr 5:17 Now therefore, if [it seem] good to the king, let there be search made in the king's treasure house, which [is] there at Babylon, whether it be [so], that a decree was made of Cyrus the king to build this house of God at Jerusalem, and let the king send his pleasure to us concerning this matter.
Avoid drinking to much wine from this Kingdom and becoming drunkeds
charity
Fear past down
Ezr 7:6 This Ezra went up from Babylon; and he [was] a ready scribe in the law of Moses, which the LORD God of Israel had given: and the king granted him all his request, according to the hand of the LORD his God upon him.
Ezr 7:25 And thou, Ezra, after the wisdom of thy God, that [is] in thine hand, set magistrates and judges, which may judge all the people that [are] beyond the river, all such as know the laws of thy God; and teach ye them that know [them] not.
No mercy
Ezr 7:26 And whosoever will not do the law of thy God, and the law of the king, let judgment be executed speedily upon him, whether [it be] unto death, or to banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment.In fear of the God would you not teach your children any different from Moses Law to save their lives from slaughter, and pass it down generations even for four hundred years till this..
Their children follow the pattern of the curse entered untill a savoiur comes into the world to give Knowledge of freedom
But some return to bondage hearing the workers conutinue perfecting the flesh?Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers.and David said himself Luk 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
The Law of Love the heavenly law that we should hang all the laws ever given on this one
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2007,03:42) Hi charity,
Old wine is to be preferred?
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:Assoiated with the mystrey Babylon the great; without mixture into a cup
the Law is good but I am not under the law I am free of bondage
I have mingled my Wine and over come my beast.
I set a table now and invite my guestscharity
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2007,03:52) Hi charity,
God chooses certain vessels to purify his people.
Amen
Let no man frustrate the another’s election, by disapproving their observation of Prophecy, not as prophets but searching the will of God.2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.And EVEN TO JUDGE THAT WHICH WAS IN DAVIDS HEART WHEN he STARTED THIS THREAD; LOOK APON YOUR OWN HEARTS and what you are doing judge ourselves?
And learn a way of being a peace maker treat each other with respect and be blessedcharity
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