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In this thread we will discuss the two requirements of salvation as taught in Revelations:
12:17
14:12
15:2-3
1:2
1:9
6:9
20:4* Note 7 verses.
I'd also like to discuss how the two great commands that the Messiah spoke of Matt. 22:7 through Matt. 22:40, envelope the 10 commands.
At the heart of this thread is the 4th command. Remember the Sabbath…Ex. 20:8, Duet. 5:15, Neh. 13:22, Lam. 1:7 and Hebrews Chapter 3 about His rest. Focusing only because this is the command that is most often neglected.
I will show you there are many great blessing bestowd on those who keep His commands, all of them.
To simplifiy for everyone I'll define these first:
God= Elohim and Elohim is plural
Our Father is the head
the Son is the Savior, our mediator
the Spirit is the means by which we are made one.
LORD=YHWH
Lord=MasterY'shua Messiah was sent here among us by or Father in heaven to be a giude, a light, and show us the path that leads to personal salvation.
Y'shua Messiah was a man who lived a righteous life, and the only man who did so.
Because He lived this way, unto His death, He was resurrected from the dead and now sits at the right hand of His Father.
He came not to change the law but to show us full understanding of it, or in other words to fulfill it.
The law has not passed according to the Messiah in Matt. 5:18.
Because I guard the commands myself, I can say with great confidence that we all need to obey His commands. Not as slaves, but as free servants, faithfully volunteering ourselves for the purpose of glorifying the Father, and the Son, and the power of His Spirit.Hi Laurel.
In Matt.15:24, Jesus said “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel”. To understand the truth of scripture, we must “correctly cut the word of truth” (2.Tim2:15). This means that we have to realise “who 'is' speaking” and to whom it is spoken 'to'. Jesus teachings were to the “Jews” (Ro.15:8), the Gentiles were not included in that era. Pauls epistles were for the”Nations”,(Ro.15:16). Your understanding of scripture has to acknowledge this truth, or much misunderstanding will ensue.Blessings.
Hi L,
God is not a binity.
Jesus did his works by the power of the Spirit of God. We can follow. We too need to be reborn from above.
The Law was given to the Jews and not the gentiles. Those outside the law were to perish without reference to the law. Now united in the gospel of Christ all men everywhere can be united as one in Christ in the Spirit of God.Hi CO,
It is regrettable that your have yet to grasp the eternal gospel.
Repentance is a demand of God to all men everywhere but not you?.
The blood of Christ washes our inner being in response to repentance and baptism to make us fit vessels for the treasure of the Spirit.Nick, So far out of everyone here you are closer to what I know than anyone else. I think the main thing we disagree on is the God plural thing. Even so we both agree that the Father is the head and Y'shua the Son is below him and we are under Y'shua. At least I think we agree on that. Messiah is our Mediator.
Also I'd like to add to “chosen”, where do think Israel is today, because I know I am Israel. I am in Messiah and He is in me. And if you are Messiah's then you are Israel. Gal. 3:29
You put is exactly “cutting the Word” you may as well have said shredding it and making it illegible, which is how those who do not obey wish it would like it to be, and so are left to their own demise.
Elohim is the God of Israel, Issiac and Jacob. Y'shua is their Savior. If you want to be in His heaven there are only 12 gates. An angel stands at each gate and each gate has a Name. One Name for each tribe of Isreal. There is no other way to get there. These are the gates to the kingdom. Rev.21:12
Lastly, Jews are only one tribe of Israel. Jews aren't truely Jews unless they believe in Messiah and guard His commands, the same as everybody else. Romans 2:28-29
Are you sure you don't want to be included in Israel?
Don't be decieved by the Orthodox Jews of today who follow the laws and traditions they made up. Those are the laws that were nailed to the cross. YHWH's laws will stand forever or as Scripture puts it, “untill heaven and earth pass.” Otherwise Messiah died for nothing.2 Tim 2:15 Means to be able to separate the Word of the truth from the words of fiction. Not dividing Scripture. Think about it. He just got done explaing that is important to endure as a soldier for Messiah, because there will be people who try to change your mind along the way, but he writes, stick to what I have taught you so that you too can be a teacher.
You must have the rock as the foundation to be able to underastand, if you misunderstand it is because you do not have the Spirit in you.
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Romans 1:28 (for those who see their own feelings as true).Hi Laurel,
Yes the saved remnant of the gentiles are grafted onto the tree of Israel.
Those who do not respond to the gospel are still under the wrath of God
Romans 11
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
Hi L,
The Law was only for the Israelites.
Rom 3
” 19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”
The new Jerusalem comes to earth.Deu 11:13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently, unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love YHWH your Elohim, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
Deu 11:14 That I will give you the rain of your land in His due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.
Deu 11:15 And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full.
Deu 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;Here YHWH speaks to Israel through Moses.
We know from studying Scripture, Israel did not obey the commands, they were backsliders repeatedly. Because of this they were kicked out of the Set-apart city. There is a good history lesson in 1 Kings and the verse 14:16 refering to the sins of Jeroboam.
Then we look further into what these sins were and see this verse. 1Kings 16:31 He caused Israel to worship Baal.
I suggest reading all of Kings 1 and 2. Here we follow all the leaders of Israel, we learn who was a good leader and who was a bad leader in the eyes of Elohim.
We learn how it is easier to follow the man-made gods, it seems better. Israel thought they were worshiping their Elohim, but Elohim says it is not so.
Lev 5:17 And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things, which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the YHWH; though he knew it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.Deut. 8:15 Moses tell Israel that YHWH will “raise up” a prophet like himself for them, and they will listen to Him. Reffering to Messiah Y'shua.
Eze 16:60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee, with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.Here the Elohim of Israel promises a new covenant to them. Which is the same new covenant that all believers in Messiah are under. Jews, and Gentiles.
Hi laurel,
Lovely thanks.
But the new covenant also is not made with all.
It is written in the blood of the sacrificial lamb at calvary.
The blood of the paschal lamb protected only those who had obeyed and applied it.
Ex 12
7And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Leviticus 14:25
And he shall kill the lamb of the trespass offering, and the priest shall take some of the blood of the trespass offering, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of him that is to be cleansed, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot:Likewise those who would partake of the benefits of the new covenant must be cleansed by blood. Life is in the blood and there is no forgiveness without shedding of blood.
Repentance and baptism is an appeal to God for this unseen inner cleansing of the conscience by the blood.
1Peter 3
” 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: “
Acts 2
'38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.”
1Jn5 esv
” 6This is he who came by water and blood–Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.”The Passover lamb is the 1st covenant between Elohim and Israel, the second covenant is Y'shua fulfulling that same law as He is the Passover sacrifice. So you were saying about what covenant was the second and everlasting covenant He promised Israel with the coming prophet. Can't you see He was telling Israel about the messiah here as well as in many other Scriptures of old.
Hi Laurel,
Certainly the OT laid the framework for the greater revelation of the plan of God in the Messiah.But we must be grafted into Israel.
We must be born again.
No man can please God by obedience to the OT.
Obedience to the command of the Son that we be reborn is for us.
Once again, the new covenant is for all. Jew and gentile, for none of us is saved without the belief in Him or the guarding of the commands. The second covanant is the Messiah, and the gift of the Spirit made available to all through Him. The first covenant, was through a priest, and a blood offering of an animal.
Before I go to bed, I'll tell you plainly. I do my best to obey the commands. I do not feel that I am good enough to get to heaven because I do this. I do this because I'm grateful for my forgiveness, and for the teaching I receive in following His way. I know being righteous is pleasing to my Father in heaven. Am I righteous, no but I will try to be because my Master was. I follow the living Elohim, not the dead.
Hi L,
Obedient belief in the commands of the Son spokon also through his apostles, is vital
You must repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus and you will receive the Holy Spirit.Quote (Laurel @ July 07 2007,17:28) Before I go to bed, I'll tell you plainly. I do my best to obey the commands. I do not feel that I am good enough to get to heaven because I do this. I do this because I'm grateful for my forgiveness, and for the teaching I receive in following His way. I know being righteous is pleasing to my Father in heaven. Am I righteous, no but I will try to be because my Master was. I follow the living Elohim, not the dead.
Hi L,
Jesus is our righteousness.
We put on the robe of righteousness when we are reborn into the Son.
Our own righteousness is as filthy rags.Heb4
” 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.”
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