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Quote (Jeremy @ Mar. 27 2013,15:43) Hi jb2u, I have also had the same problem with finding a church, which is how I first came to this site (i googled “which church is the right church?). When I came back to God after making it through my teen years I went to a few different church`s with poeple I met, but being raised as a JW ment that I had some very strong views on what was truth. As some of these views came apart I remember becoming very confused. Then one day I was using my nieghbours computer and was looking up about the JWs some of the things I read where untrue about thier teachings, but other things rang true, at this point I was so upset, I`d never felt so lost before in my life I felt despair just take over me. I went home to my flat and as I shut the front door behind me I cried out to God and just said, God you have to let me know which church is the right church… As I said this I found my self stood in a barren wilderness, on the horizon in every direction there where thousands of mountains, then I saw straight paths going away from me in every direction then without a word being said I was told to look straight up, as I did this the vision went and straight away I knew what it meant.
I was in a wilderness all alone which was how I was feeling, the mountains where all the different churches in the world and then the paths where all straight paths which would have lead me straight to one of the church`s, but not one path was different to the other, but then I was told without a word being said look up you dont have to go down any path come straight to me.
Over time I have learnt not to look for the right church on earth because Jesus is the church, rather I look for people who are part of that church and when I do meet them i know because you can feel the presense of Jesus with us as we talk and I know then that they are my brother or sister and I feel a real love and belonging.
AMEN JEREMY!
Funny you should say that because I was just thinking the very same thing. I had met another believer in the street, and that was exactly what was on my mind as I left (I mean the last few lines of what you wrote but i say Amen to your Whole post!).
Quote (Jeremy @ Mar. 27 2013,13:43) Hi jb2u, I have also had the same problem with finding a church, which is how I first came to this site (i googled “which church is the right church?). When I came back to God after making it through my teen years I went to a few different church`s with poeple I met, but being raised as a JW ment that I had some very strong views on what was truth. As some of these views came apart I remember becoming very confused. Then one day I was using my nieghbours computer and was looking up about the JWs some of the things I read where untrue about thier teachings, but other things rang true, at this point I was so upset, I`d never felt so lost before in my life I felt despair just take over me. I went home to my flat and as I shut the front door behind me I cried out to God and just said, God you have to let me know which church is the right church… As I said this I found my self stood in a barren wilderness, on the horizon in every direction there where thousands of mountains, then I saw straight paths going away from me in every direction then without a word being said I was told to look straight up, as I did this the vision went and straight away I knew what it meant.
I was in a wilderness all alone which was how I was feeling, the mountains where all the different churches in the world and then the paths where all straight paths which would have lead me straight to one of the church`s, but not one path was different to the other, but then I was told without a word being said look up you dont have to go down any path come straight to me.
Over time I have learnt not to look for the right church on earth because Jesus is the church, rather I look for people who are part of that church and when I do meet them i know because you can feel the presense of Jesus with us as we talk and I know then that they are my brother or sister and I feel a real love and belonging.
Thank you for your post.I thank you all for your posts!! I have considered each one. For now, I will continue to study at home with my family. Once again, I thank you all.
jb2u
Sorry, not offense intended, just concern because I see you taking a serious wrong turn.
Read Psalm 89:
6For who in the skies is comparable to the LORD?
Who among the sons of the mighty is like the LORD,7A God greatly feared in the council of the holy ones,
And awesome above all those who are around Him?😯 LORD God of hosts, who is like You, O mighty LORD?
Your faithfulness also surrounds You.9You rule the swelling of the sea;
When its waves rise, You still them.10You Yourself crushed Rahab like one who is slain;
You scattered Your enemies with Your mighty arm.11The heavens are Yours, the earth also is Yours;
The world and all it contains, You have founded them.I pray that you will find Jehovah amongst all the gods that you believe exist. For me, He is the Father and the Son together through their Spirit. Jesus identifies Himself with the Jehovah all over the NT, especially in Revelations which, btw is the revelation of who Jesus is.
Rev 22
12“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
Please keep your mind open to seeing Jesus as Jehovah, the Son who with Jehovah the Father and their Spirit are the fullness of Jehovah-God Almighty, during your search. If you close your mind to this, you won't see but it is very easy to see if you seek it as a true possibility with all your heart. Read my signature at the end of my post.
24 Jehovah bless you and keep you;
25 Jehovah make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
26 Jehovah lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.Shalom!
Those that teach men to break the commandments will be least in the Kingdom.
The first commandment is the most important one.“The LORD thy God is one God.”
And if anyone here respects Jesus then they would respect his word and this in particular:
“This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”Hi t8,
Let's look at the first commandment and see if one of us is breaking it:Exodus 20
2“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.3“You shall have no other gods before me.
What does that mean to have no other gods before me? Does that mean that you can have other gods, just make sure the Lord your God that brought the people out of Egypt is understood as the greatest? Or does it mean that you are not to worship any other gods? Let's look at a supporting passage:
Exodus 34:
11“Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 12Take care, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you go, lest it become a snare in your midst. 13You shall tear down their altars and break their pillars and cut down their Asherim 14(for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), 15lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and when they whore after their gods and sacrifice to their gods and you are invited, you eat of his sacrifice, 16and you take of their daughters for your sons, and their daughters whore after their gods and make your sons whore after their gods.17“You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal.
Exodus 20:
4“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.Ok, now let's see if you break any of the above.
You believe that the LORD (YHVH) your God is only the Father. You also believe that Jesus is another god…a lessor god as the Son of God.
I believe that the LORD my God is the Father, Son with their Holy Spirit.We are to worship no other god. You worship the Father as the LORD your God and you worship another god, a lessor god as the Son of God. So, that seems to violate the commandment right there.
I worship the LORD who is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the eternal unity. I don't worship any other gods.
You make a new covenant with the LORD your God through another god as the mediator of that new covenant.
I make a new covenant with the LORD my God who is God of gods and Lord of lords, through the Lord of lords.You eat of the sacrifice of another god, the mediator of the new covenant of the LORD when you take communion.
I eat of the sacrifice of the Lord of lords, the mediator of the new covenant with the LORD, the God of gods and the Lord of lords when I take communion.We are not to bow down or worship another god.
You bow down and worship the LORD and another god, a lessor god as the Son of God.
I bow down and worship the LORD as the God of gods and the Lord of lords.So, you can see that according to your understanding of Jesus being a lessor god and not Jehovah, the Son, you violate the first commandments, not me.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 27 2013,11:40) Hi t8,
Let's look at the first commandment and see if one of us is breaking it:Exodus 20
2“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.3“You shall have no other gods before me.
What does that mean to have no other gods before me? Does that mean that you can have other gods, just make sure the Lord your God that brought the people out of Egypt is understood as the greatest? Or does it mean that you are not to worship any other gods? Let's look at a supporting passage:
Exodus 34:
11“Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 12Take care, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you go, lest it become a snare in your midst. 13You shall tear down their altars and break their pillars and cut down their Asherim 14(for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), 15lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and when they whore after their gods and sacrifice to their gods and you are invited, you eat of his sacrifice, 16and you take of their daughters for your sons, and their daughters whore after their gods and make your sons whore after their gods.17“You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal.
Exodus 20:
4“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.Ok, now let's see if you break any of the above.
You believe that the LORD (YHVH) your God is only the Father. You also believe that Jesus is another god…a lessor god as the Son of God.
I believe that the LORD my God is the Father, Son with their Holy Spirit.We are to worship no other god. You worship the Father as the LORD your God and you worship another god, a lessor god as the Son of God. So, that seems to violate the commandment right there.
I worship the LORD who is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the eternal unity. I don't worship any other gods.
You make a new covenant with the LORD your God through another god as the mediator of that new covenant.
I make a new covenant with the LORD my God who is God of gods and Lord of lords, through the Lord of lords.You eat of the sacrifice of another god, the mediator of the new covenant of the LORD when you take communion.
I eat of the sacrifice of the Lord of lords, the mediator of the new covenant with the LORD, the God of gods and the Lord of lords when I take communion.We are not to bow down or worship another god.
You bow down and worship the LORD and another god, a lessor god as the Son of God.
I bow down and worship the LORD as the God of gods and the Lord of lords.So, you can see that according to your understanding of Jesus being a lessor god and not Jehovah, the Son, you violate the first commandments, not me.
LU,Do you worship Jesus the man?
Do you worship Yawheh alone?
Kerwin,
No one would be able to worship Jesus if He wasn't the Jehovah that became man because the Holy Spirit wouldn't have been given to us since we would remain in our sins. Jesus had to become a man to be our kinsman redeemer and mediator and Savior. I worship all that the Father is and Son is…the Root AND the Shoot, Jehovah and man. It is not possible to fully worship the Son apart from who He fully was as both God and man.I hope that answers your questions.
“The LORD thy God is one God.”
&
“This is eternal life, that you may the only true God, and Jesus Christ who he has sent.”These 2 verses condemn your view in a serious way and they show us clearly who that one true God is.
Here is what you need to consider:
1) You break an important commandment.
2) Best case scenario for those who teach others to break commandments is that they are least in the Kingdom of God.
3) You deny that the Father is the only true God according to what Jesus said. Therefore under the guise of sticking up for Jesus, you are in fact against him because you are against his own word. If you really loved him you would obey him and believe him.
4) You deny that God is a him or whom as attested throughout the Bible, instead you infer that God is “THEM” and haven't got the guts to call God “THEM” in public either showing that you lack confidence in your view.
5) The truth that you are spending your life fighting against at the moment is eternal life showing extremely poor judgement in priorities from yourself.This cannot end well for you Kathi, unless you repent. Truth is not a toy that you buy and then do with it what you want. Rather it is a pearl of such great price that you should sell everything for it.
Joshua 24:19
King James Bible
And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.According to the Hebrew, it appears that this verse should say:
And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for the holy ONES are HE;…Gill says:
“In the Hebrew text it is, “for the Holy Ones are he”: which may serve to illustrate and confirm the doctrine of the trinity of, persons in the unity of the divine Essence, or of the three divine holy Persons, holy Father, holy Son, holy Spirit, as the one God, see Isaiah 6:3, “The notes on the KJ translator notes:
“holy God: Heb. holy Gods”from here:
http://bible.cc/joshua/24-19.htmThis is it interesting…hmmmm.
Hmmm…more lies about a member from the disgruntled moderator (which breaks his own rules of the forum that he himself has made but then again, he has no problem breaking the first commandments that God has made, so the problem just carries on).
Quote 1) You break an important commandment.
2) Best case scenario for those who teach others to break commandments is that they are least in the Kingdom of God.
3) You deny that the Father is the only true God according to what Jesus said. Therefore under the guise of sticking up for Jesus, you are in fact against him because you are against his own word. If you really loved him you would obey him and believe him.
4) You deny that God is a him or whom as attested throughout the Bible, instead you infer that God is “THEM” and haven't got the guts to call God “THEM” in public either showing that you lack confidence in your view.
5) The truth that you are spending your life fighting against at the moment is eternal life showing extremely poor judgement in priorities from yourself.#1. Actually it is you that have broken the first commandments which I clearly show here:
Quote Hi t8,
Let's look at the first commandment and see if one of us is breaking it:Exodus 20
2“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.3“You shall have no other gods before me.
What does that mean to have no other gods before me? Does that mean that you can have other gods, just make sure the Lord your God that brought the people out of Egypt is understood as the greatest? Or does it mean that you are not to worship any other gods? Let's look at a supporting passage:
Exodus 34:
11“Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 12Take care, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you go, lest it become a snare in your midst. 13You shall tear down their altars and break their pillars and cut down their Asherim 14(for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), 15lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and when they whore after their gods and sacrifice to their gods and you are invited, you eat of his sacrifice, 16and you take of their daughters for your sons, and their daughters whore after their gods and make your sons whore after their gods.17“You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal.
Exodus 20:
4“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.Ok, now let's see if you break any of the above.
You believe that the LORD (YHVH) your God is only the Father. You also believe that Jesus is another god…a lessor god as the Son of God.
I believe that the LORD my God is the Father, Son with their Holy Spirit.We are to worship no other god. You worship the Father as the LORD your God and you worship another god, a lessor god as the Son of God. So, that seems to violate the commandment right there.
I worship the LORD who is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the eternal unity. I don't worship any other gods.
You make a new covenant with the LORD your God through another god as the mediator of that new covenant.
I make a new covenant with the LORD my God who is God of gods and Lord of lords, through the Lord of lords.You eat of the sacrifice of another god, the mediator of the new covenant of the LORD when you take communion.
I eat of the sacrifice of the Lord of lords, the mediator of the new covenant with the LORD, the God of gods and the Lord of lords when I take communion.We are not to bow down or worship another god.
You bow down and worship the LORD and another god, a lessor god as the Son of God.
I bow down and worship the LORD as the God of gods and the Lord of lords.So, yes on your question #1 and #2, what you teach, t8, since you have God and another lessor god, you are in violation of the first commandments. I don't believe what I teach is in violation of the first commandments.
#2 In light of the above quote, you ought to repent then.
#3 No I don't deny that the Father is the only true God.
#4 Wrong again. Jehovah is the God of gods and the Lord of lords and they are one. We have one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ and they are one. I have said this over and over.
#5 You don't even represent what I believe correctly so your conclusions are built on sand…crumbling in front of your very eyes! Liars never prosper, t8.
This isn't farmville, t8. When you worship the Jehovah and another god and lie about another member and bear false witness you are breaking commandments of Jehovah in a big way.
Oh Lightenup (please read all of my words)…
“the gods that I believe exist” as you say are the same ones that God claims exists.
Psalm 82
God refers to judges as “gods.”1 Cor 8:5
God states “there be gods many, and lords many.”But we are talking about a belief in a trinity. Let's start at Deut 6:4
God states “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” The word “one” hear is ehad (echad) in Hebrew. Remember what I said about the Bible being translated from the original inspired word of God? “One” can be one set or one thing/person/place, etc. How do we know if it is talking about one set or one person? Well, we have to look at the context of the verses. God clearly is stating that HE is One. He speaks of His and Him, not we and us!!! So, God is stating that HE is ONE.Mark 12:29
Jesus reaffirms Deut 6:4 by stating it is the first of all commandments!!How do we know that Jesus does not consider Himself as “part” of a triune God?
Well, let's see what he says in scripture..
John 17:3
Jesus states, “That they may know YOU the ONE true GOD and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” So Jesus is saying He is NOT the same as the one true GOD. Well that is interesting!!Mark 10:17-18
When someone addresses Jesus as good teacher. He asks why do you say that I am good? Only God is good. This person went on by just addressing Jesus as only teacher. Jesus did not take offense and say “why don't you call me good for I am God.” No, instead Jesus beheld him with love knowing the thing he lacked was not the knowledge that there is one God, but that he trusted in his riches and not in the ONE true God.1 Cor 8:6
Do you believe the words of God? God says, “But to us there is but ONE God, the FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” So God, the Father, claims that HE is the ONE true God and Jesus is Lord.Isaiah 11:2-3
God says that Jesus will fear the LORD. How can Jesus be a part of the triune God and fear the triune God? You have to at least think about this statement by God. Do you think that God knew that people would proclaim the trinity? Of course, and that is why He said over and over, there is but ONE God and I am Him, the Father alone!!What is God's nature? He is omnipotent and omniscient. Additionally, God can NOT lie. Can we agree here? Please answer!!
Considering this…Mark 13:4-32
Jesus states that he does not know when the end will come, only the father knows. Now notice that He is making it clear who God is. It is the Father. He doesn't say God only knows, so that trinitarians can perverse His words. No, He declares that only the Father knows. Also notice that the Holy Spirit does not know either!!Now if Jesus does not know when he will come back THEN He is not the one true omniscient God. Right? If he is lying about not knowing, then he is NOT God because God can not Lie. Right? Now before you say that I am calling Jesus a liar, I am NOT. I believe every word that He said!! It is not me that is changing HIS words. If He says that He does not know when He is coming back then I believe it with all of my heart and mind!!
Matt 20:20-23
Jesus when asked to put the two sons, one on his left and one on the right in the new kingdom. What does Jesus say? He says that The position of who is on the left and right hand is NOT His to give but it is His Father's decision. We could also make the same argument about Him needing to ask His Father for angels or that everything that He does is giving to him by His Father, God.We are back at a tough argument. We have to face the truth, as God is the truth. The Word of God is the truth. Right? OK…Now if Jesus does not have the power or authority to say who will be at his left and right side in the new kingdom THEN He is not the one true omnipotent God. Right? If he is lying, then he is NOT God because God can not Lie. Right? Again, I am not the one that claims that He is lying. That would be a trinitarian belief; and, as I have stated, I believe with all my heart exactly what the Bible says about God and Jesus.
John 14:28
Jesus says “For my Father is greater than I.” Now if God is a triune God then how can Jesus being a part of the same ONE true triune God be lesser than any of the other parts of the one triune God. And again, Jesus left out a third part apparently, the Holy Spirit. Trinitarians will have us believe that they are all three Co-Eternal and Co-Equal!!!!1 Cor 11:3
God states, “the head of Christ is God.” How can the head of Christ be the triune God when Christ is a part of the triune God? How can the head of Christ be the Father if they are Co-equal???Maybe I am using too much scripture as proof!! Trinitarians want to say it is a “mystery” and yet the false religion in revelations is called “mystery.” I wonder if there is a connection? Anyway, trinitarians need to accuse Jesus as a liar in order to make their case be true; whereas, non-trinitarians can explain, using scripture how the word is being misinterpreted, such as when Jesus is called God by God. Well we know in Hebrew Jesus is being called “elohim” and we know that elohim means “mighty one” and well Jesus is a mighty one and so he is “elohim” but not the one true God. That being said, trinitarians have to say well when Jesus said that only his Father is the one true God, then he was not really being Honest. That is a scary, scary thing to say!! And you are worried that I am making a wrong turn!!
Speaking of “turning”, let's consider when did what was taught by Jesus and his disciples “turn” to the trinity. Around the 4th century someone that was not even a born again Christian formed a Council and decided that God was a trinity. And, we KNOW that Bible verses have been CHANGED to try to “prove” that the trinity is real!!
You know that the Jews do not believe that God is a trinity, right? And, if we read the Bible, we know that the Jews had some great debates about these teachings that Jesus was now teaching them. They debated about…should the law be followed, saved through belief not works, should the gentiles be preached to, etc. But notice never did these Jews say…what is this triune God that you now speak of??? Why is that? Because Jesus and the disciples never taught the trinity concept!!! Surely, that controversy would be in the Bible. Surely God, who wants us to know Him, would have made it clear.
The one thing that He made clear is that there is ONE true God and that HE sent his Son so that we could know the Father, the one true God.Look, I do not doubt that you can make the case for the trinity using the Bible, but only IF you contradict certain parts of the Bible. As Jesus said, scripture can not be broken. Consider, scripture reveals scripture. No scripture in the dark reveals scripture in the light, but scripture in the light reveals scripture in the dark. Seek and ye shall find. He who looks to find the truth will find the truth. He who seeks to prove their point regardless of the truth will find untruth!!
If I am right and the trinity is false doctrine, why would satan introduce this to the world? Well, maybe just maybe, he knows that Jesus told us that in order to have salvation we must believe in God and that He sent his only begotten Son to die for our sins. Now, I do not claim to know who is saved and who is not, BUT what if people that believe in the trinity, by default, do not believe that God sent His Son, as is necessary in order to be saved. What they believe is that God sent Himself to be sacrificed!! That is not really believing that He sent his only begotten Son. Does that mean you are not saved? Well, according to Jesus it does and that would explain why satan could have created this idea o
f the trinity.Furthermore, if Jesus is a part of this triune God, was he just pretending to be scared as He prayed to His Father in the garden before being taken to be crucified? Certainly not; but, we know God fears nothing. So, what does that say about Jesus? Was He just putting on a show that he was tempted in the wilderness? God is not tempted by nothing or no one. As Jesus said, “It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.” Again, did Jesus just pretend (lie) to not know certain things? Did He just pretend that He had no power Himself, but only what the Father gave Him? Was He lying when He said that His Father was the one true God? I say NO. He is exactly who He said He was…the Son of God. His power was given to him by God, His Father and ours. Jesus was telling us the truth when he said the ONE true God is His FATHER!! The only ones denying His words are those that believe in a triune God!!
I have asked you not to argue with me, but I thank you for leading me to share this with those that may be in the dark. I did not want this and no doubt those that are blind and have a hardened heart will not see what is right in front of their face, but blessed are those that see this and KNOW that there is but ONE GOD, the FATHER, and ONE LORD Jesus!!! Amen.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 27 2013,12:24) Kerwin,
No one would be able to worship Jesus if He wasn't the Jehovah that became man because the Holy Spirit wouldn't have been given to us since we would remain in our sins. Jesus had to become a man to be our kinsman redeemer and mediator and Savior. I worship all that the Father is and Son is…the Root AND the Shoot, Jehovah and man. It is not possible to fully worship the Son apart from who He fully was as both God and man.I hope that answers your questions.
LU,There is no scripture, if correctly translated, states Jesus was worshiped. The closest ones are those that speak of him being bowed down to.
What you are claim is that Yawheh, who is worthy of worship, transformed into a human being, that is not worthy of worship.
Your paradigm is not workable as Jesus is the human being and Yawheh is the God.
Yawheh dwells in Jesus by his Spirit and Jesus tents in Yawheh by the same Spirit. That limited unity is a trinity where one element is human, one is the God, and the third is God's holy Spirit.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2013,11:08) No you don't Mike. If you truly believed that your heavenly Father existed from eternity, you would believe in an eternal Son.
KathiGod almighty his the only God that existed WITHOUT A BEGINNING ,
ALL OTHER GODS HAVE A BEGINNING EVEN THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ALMIGHTY ,
YOU DO NOT NEED THE WORD “ETERNITY” TO PROVE ANYTHING ,
IT IS SIMPLE AND STRAIT FORWARD IN SCRIPTURE TRUTH.
Kerwin,
Jesus is both the Root and the Shoot…God and Man…and is worthy of my worship. Through Him I was created and redeemed from my sin. He sits on the white horse in Revelations and with His own arm and His own righteousness, He wins the final battle.Kerwin, are you to make a covenant to God through another god?
terarricca,
Jesus has no beginning of days…He is the eternal life that was with the Father in the beginning.Quote Oh Lightenup (please read all of my words)… “the gods that I believe exist” as you say are the same ones that God claims exists.
Psalm 82
God refers to judges as “gods.”1 Cor 8:5
God states “there be gods many, and lords many.”But we are talking about a belief in a trinity. Let's start at Deut 6:4
God states “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” The word “one” hear is ehad (echad) in Hebrew. Remember what I said about the Bible being translated from the original inspired word of God? “One” can be one set or one thing/person/place, etc. How do we know if it is talking about one set or one person? Well, we have to look at the context of the verses. God clearly is stating that HE is One. He speaks of His and Him, not we and us!!! So, God is stating that HE is ONE.First off, thank you jb2u for the time it took you to post that. I will have to respond bit by bit for lack of time.
1. Yes, there are lots of gods mentioned in the Bible. Only Jehovah is who is to be our God.
2. I am not about a trinity doctrine. I believe in a Christian doctrine. For Christians there is one God the Father, one Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit that dwells within, and they are one.Quote How do we know if it is talking about one set or one person? Well, we have to look at the context of the verses. God clearly is stating that HE is One. He speaks of His and Him, not we and us!!! So, God is stating that HE is ONE. 3. You say that one 'set' of something doesn't have singular personal pronouns to go with it. I disagree completely. The church is a 'she.' Israel is 'my,' 'I,' even in the Shema, Israel is singular and 'hear' is the singular verb with it yet Israel is one as a 'set' as you call it.
Example:
Numbers 21:2And Israel vowed a vow to the LORD and said, “If you will indeed give this people into my hand, then I will devote their cities to destruction.”
Here a compound unity called “Israel” uses singular pronouns such as 'my' and 'I.'
So, you need to stop right there and start over because I have just proven that argument as inaccurate. Sorry, but being corrected is a good thing.
Ttyl!
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2013,07:28) 3. You say that one 'set' of something doesn't have singular personal pronouns to go with it. I disagree completely. The church is a 'she.' Israel is 'my,' 'I,' even in the Shema, Israel is singular and 'hear' is the singular verb with it yet Israel is one as a 'set' as you call it. Example:
Numbers 21:2And Israel vowed a vow to the LORD and said, “If you will indeed give this people into my hand, then I will devote their cities to destruction.”
Here a compound unity called “Israel” uses singular pronouns such as 'my' and 'I.'
So, you need to stop right there and start over because I have just proven that argument as inaccurate. Sorry, but being corrected is a good thing.
Ttyl!
Well I conceded that things can be one set or one thing. As for the Shema….the Jews believe that it clearly states that God is one and not one set!!!Now my point was not just that he used I, He, Him. Those were in addition to. The context of those verses that He wanted Israel to know is that God is One. That IS the context of those verses. Additionally he uses I, He, and Him. You can use singular pronouns to represent those in oneness such as Israel, but if you are using the word ONE with the singular pronoun then it means ONE. Note the same use of echad “one” is used for Adam and Eve…and THEY became echad (one). SEE, it does not say and He became ONE. No, it says, THEY became ONE; therefore, you know that they became one union and NOT one being. We know this because of the use of the pronoun THEY.
It is good to be corrected, but only if it is accurate!!
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2013,02:14) terarricca,
Jesus has no beginning of days…He is the eternal life that was with the Father in the beginning.
Kathishow me in the scriptures that Christ the son of God almighty was not created and so was existing along with his father equally
from no beginning like the father ,
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