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Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 09 2008,10:22) Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 09 2008,10:10) Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 09 2008,10:00) Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 09 2008,09:51) You might be right but there are scenarios where this might not be the case. 1)Everything is reconciled to him and not one soul is left.
2) All that is left is children of darkness. Fallen angels. (remember angels becoming men?) The sons of Light are all evacuated after many life times of death and resurrection.
3) The end of all things is a product of the fallen sons. The sun they created when the elohim (gods) made the earth finally dies. Research the death of our sun on google.
I personally don't think God will fail. In the end all sons will be brought into reconciliation with him.
1 timothy 2
3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 1:9
“Who has saved us and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ before the world began [before eonian times].”
1 Corinthians 5:5
“Deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
Ephesians 1:5
“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.”
Romans 11:25–26
“For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in, and so ALL Israel shall be SAVED.”
Ephesians 1
10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
In the end all things reconciled!
Quote I personally don't think God will fail. In the end all sons will be brought into reconciliation with him. But we have a free choice and as hard as it might be to believe their are those who want to do evil and disobey God just as in Noah's time and the end time.
I agree with you to a point! It seems all truth is mixed with lies including what you are studying. That's why we need the Spirit of truth!
I agree.The spirit of Truth is Love and Light.
Anything else is not truth.
OK but what about Noah and his time then and NOW?!Mat 24:37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Jesus' time will come shorter that expected in order to save some flesh. Just as the days of Noah when he entered the ark.
In Noah's time even their thoughts were “deranged”! As the world is coming to today.
I dont have all the answers however:The thing the pulpit doesnt tell you is that the flood was a judgement on evil angels and their progeny the nephelim.
does that put into perspective the future judgement?
Who is getting judged in both intenses. FALLEN ANGELS. The sons of darkness.
Hi SOL,
Certainly that was the original plan but men joined their side.Mt 25
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2008,14:51) Hi SOL,
Certainly that was the original plan but men joined their side.Mt 25
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
I agree men joined them.Whatever form the kingdom of God takes on, if you believe in a literal 1000 year reign, men might miss out on.
But what about after at the extremity of times. Will all be reconciled?
The white throne takes place AFTER the millenium in revelation.
In the description it appears that some are NOT thrown into the lake of fire even though they MISSED the millenial kingdom.
Eternity and the kingdom of God to seperate things?
you can miss the kingdom but be saved by the skin of your teeth at the end.
your flesh handed over to satan but the spirit saved.
whats your thoughts.
Hi SOL,
The White throne \sheep and goat judgement is the judgement of mercy for those who have NOT entered through the gate of Jesus. They have not been born again. They have not already passed from death to life.God is fair and His mercy specific.[Mt 25]
That mercy towards the sheep is because of the cup of water or kindnesses shown to the bedraggled remnant, the hated and mocked sons and daughters of God, while they lived. They showed by their fruit that despite their rebellion or ignorance their hearts ever belonged to God.
Whatever you did to these least brothers of mine, you did to me.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2008,15:26) Hi SOL,
The White throne \sheep and goat judgement is the judgement of mercy for those who have NOT entered through the gate of Jesus. They have not been born again. They have not already passed from death to life.God is fair and His mercy specific.[Mt 25]
That mercy towards the sheep is because of the cup of water or kindnesses shown to the bedraggled remnant, the hated and mocked sons and daughters of God, while they lived. They showed by their fruit that despite their rebellion or ignorance their hearts ever belonged to God.
Whatever you did to these least brothers of mine, you did to me.
did you add the word “brothers” into the text?I interpret this passage as a direct refutation of Paul's doctrine.
The James and Jesus doctrine is what I call it.
I see the possiblity of the finite time period of the kingdom being missed, but the soul being saved at the end as what appears demonstrated in the description of the white throne judgement.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2008,15:37) Hi SOL,
It was not in quotation marks but BROTHERS is at Mt 25.40
It very well could be saying unbelievers receive mercy dependent on the mercy they have given believers.I have always taken it as what Jesus expected everyone to be doing and was thus addressing it to all in particualr those of means, because his brethern were the poor and down trodden and not the rich and mighty.
Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 09 2008,16:42) The essence of what I am saying is that: Jesus and his followers did not believe God the Most High did any of those bad things in the OT.
These actions were credited to fallen angels.
2000 years later Christians are twisting their morality into a pretzel trying to justify the actions of whom they think their God is.
I have made my mind up on what is wrong and what is right morally speaking. I am open to discussion of any scriptural topic with honesty and sincerity.
But yes my moral compass will not be swayed.
I could very well be convinced of something I am misunderstanding historically and scripturally, however.
Think about this:
If I am wrong and the Most High does do things that are evil:
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, who does all these things” (Isa. 45:5-7).
Then I will have to apologize for not accepting that God is above his own Law and will have to bow my knee to him and acknowledge he IS the God of love while he punishes me with his wrath.
If I am right then you guys have a lot of explaining to do as well. Believing that the Most High commits acts of evil and orders the rape of women…etc.. How hurt will God be when he holds out his arms and says:
My child, I am the God of Love. The Father of Light and in me in no shadow of turning. I do not want to kill I want to give life and give it abundantly.
hey sol ,your not far from the truth for he is the truth and the light. he has no shadow of turning.unchanging love.he is the great (I AM).jesus sums up ex 20 with just the two love commandments.to show clearly that GOD never changes.this is the whole law.and you are correct god cannot break his own law.he could not say dont kill ,than say go kill. that would make him a liar ,and who wants to hang out with a liar anyways,you know he would have to cast himself into the lake of fire, what a joke truly sad how long the whole world has been decieved,this liar /murderer.is not my god , my god is the light,life, love ,truth,way,everything good,yet there is a judgement we either need to choose the light, or go on in the darkness into the fire, may the TRUTH lead you into all TRUTH.Quote (michaels @ Jan. 09 2008,16:15) Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 09 2008,16:42) The essence of what I am saying is that: Jesus and his followers did not believe God the Most High did any of those bad things in the OT.
These actions were credited to fallen angels.
2000 years later Christians are twisting their morality into a pretzel trying to justify the actions of whom they think their God is.
I have made my mind up on what is wrong and what is right morally speaking. I am open to discussion of any scriptural topic with honesty and sincerity.
But yes my moral compass will not be swayed.
I could very well be convinced of something I am misunderstanding historically and scripturally, however.
Think about this:
If I am wrong and the Most High does do things that are evil:
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, who does all these things” (Isa. 45:5-7).
Then I will have to apologize for not accepting that God is above his own Law and will have to bow my knee to him and acknowledge he IS the God of love while he punishes me with his wrath.
If I am right then you guys have a lot of explaining to do as well. Believing that the Most High commits acts of evil and orders the rape of women…etc.. How hurt will God be when he holds out his arms and says:
My child, I am the God of Love. The Father of Light and in me in no shadow of turning. I do not want to kill I want to give life and give it abundantly.
hey sol ,your not far from the truth for he is the truth and the light. he has no shadow of turning.unchanging love.he is the great (I AM).jesus sums up ex 20 with just the two love commandments.to show clearly that GOD never changes.this is the whole law.and you are correct god cannot break his own law.he could not say dont kill ,than say go kill. that would make him a liar ,and who wants to hang out with a liar anyways,you know he would have to cast himself into the lake of fire, what a joke truly sad how long the whole world has been decieved,this liar /murderer.is not my god , my god is the light,life, love ,truth,way,everything good,yet there is a judgement we either need to choose the light, or go on in the darkness into the fire, may the TRUTH lead you into all TRUTH.
I can see you have been set free. Isn't it great!
all the things ,to open our eyes and see how things realy are.god shows and tells all yet its hard to get past the disbelief and just exept the truth,to cut away mens traditions,after all everything me was taught my whole life about god ,other than jesus is a lie,its nice to be free ,yet the world thinks me insane,ha ha.
Quote (michaels @ Jan. 09 2008,17:18) all the things ,to open our eyes and see how things realy are.god shows and tells all yet its hard to get past the disbelief and just exept the truth,to cut away mens traditions,after all everything me was taught my whole life about god ,other than jesus is a lie,its nice to be free ,yet the world thinks me insane,ha ha.
I know what you mean.It is a painful fearful process. You are fearful of what others think. Fearful of blasphemy. Saddened at the state of things.
Until, the release when it finally sinks in and the spirit in you whispers softly, “You're Free”.
The world wizzes past you as thousands of thoughts come pooring out of you as you realize the truth. The whole world is completely deceased.
We really do live in a matrix.
Sincere people really wander about in darkness honestly thinking that bad is good and good is bad and that Satan, leader of the satans, is God.
how many stand behind you in your firm beliefs ,just you and god ,or many .do you have a place of worship or do you just go out and worship him at a pile of unhewn stones where he put his name.you seem to be almost as out there as me, ha ha you know thats allright we are not to be part of this world anyways,come out of her my children ,as FATHER would say,for he is the truth.
Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 09 2008,17:26) Quote (michaels @ Jan. 09 2008,17:18) all the things ,to open our eyes and see how things realy are.god shows and tells all yet its hard to get past the disbelief and just exept the truth,to cut away mens traditions,after all everything me was taught my whole life about god ,other than jesus is a lie,its nice to be free ,yet the world thinks me insane,ha ha.
I know what you mean.It is a painful fearful process. You are fearful of what others think. Fearful of blasphemy. Saddened at the state of things.
Until, the release when it finally sinks in and the spirit in you whispers softly, “You're Free”.
The world wizzes past you as thousands of thoughts come pooring out of you as you realize the truth. The whole world is completely deceased.
We really do live in a matrix.
Sincere people really wander about in darkness honestly thinking that bad is good and good is bad and that Satan, leader of the satans, is God.
I meant the whole world is deceived but deceased ironically works too.Quote (michaels @ Jan. 09 2008,17:27) how many stand behind you in your firm beliefs ,just you and god ,or many .do you have a place of worship or do you just go out and worship him at a pile of unhewn stones where he put his name.you seem to be almost as out there as me, ha ha you know thats allright we are not to be part of this world anyways,come out of her my children ,as FATHER would say,for he is the truth.
Just my wife and I. I have a family that is very orthodox. A few of them will listen to me though and agree with many things I say.its neet you mention blasphmy ,GOD showed us, 8 years ago many things when he came to us visions for days,the juddgement of the dead and many other things,all he showed me was very scary because me was scared of blasphemeing him,yet he showed me!! its taken me 8 years to finaly give in to the TRUTH,one day he just kept going over thet he isent a liar but the truth,this makes it easy to see where he is speaking,for he is the truth ,not a liar.did you know the bible says that god is satan ,read 2 samual 24 and 1 chronicles 21,. the same story ,in one its satan testing ,in the other its yhwh ,this is truly a clue left,but clearly god is love so you have aneven bigger clue
Quote (michaels @ Jan. 09 2008,17:41) its neet you mention blasphmy ,GOD showed us, 8 years ago many things when he came to us visions for days,the juddgement of the dead and many other things,all he showed me was very scary because me was scared of blasphemeing him,yet he showed me!! its taken me 8 years to finaly give in to the TRUTH,one day he just kept going over thet he isent a liar but the truth,this makes it easy to see where he is speaking,for he is the truth ,not a liar.did you know the bible says that god is satan ,read 2 samual 24 and 1 chronicles 21,. the same story ,in one its satan testing ,in the other its yhwh ,this is truly a clue left,but clearly god is love so you have aneven bigger clue
I can identify.Yes I am aware of those verses where satan and Jehovah are compared.
this is one of my posts I made of comparisons:
I really want to know how I can possibly believe Jehovah is the Most High. I want to know how the rest of you can stay sane while wrapping your morality into a pretzel.
Sincerely, does anyone have any good informative responses to help answer this?
All Nick will say is I am deceived and a blasphemer. Anything constructive out there?
Who is YHWH? Is he God Most High?
Lets ask someone who has seen God then to tell us.
1 John 4:12
12 No one has ever seen God. But if we love each other, God lives in us, and his love is brought to full expression in us.
Exodus 33:11
11 The LORD (Jehovah) would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.
What the heck who is this Jehovah then?
Acts 7:38
38He was in the assembly in the desert, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us.
Oh he was an angel. What kind of angel?
Colossians 2:16-21
16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
20If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch”An angel that put us into bondage? Wow Yikes!
Christ set us free from this bondage.
Colossians 2:14-15
14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Then who does Christ say this Jehovah is?
John 8:44
44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Go back and Read Genesis 3 with and open mind and discover for yourself the truth of what is written there. Try not to let the lies of the pulpit blind you from what the text actually says.
It says that Adam and Eve were not created immortal and were prevented from becoming so by the Jehovah gods.
It says that the serpent told the truth and that their eyes did open and they did become like gods knowing good and evil.
It says that the Jehovah gods told the first lie and sentenced man to death.
Jehovah is not God Most High he is a rebellious principality and power.
Deuteronomy 32:8-9
8When the Most High(El Elyon) gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.
9But the LORD’s (Jehovah's) portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted heritage.Jehovah was the tribal deity over Israel. One of the Watchers set over each of the nations. His portion was Israel. Jehovah is not El Elyon. He is under El Elyon.
Open your eyes. Be wise as the serpent! The truth will set you free from bondage to evil principalities and powers.
The Catholic Church lied and forged scriptures to hide that they made Jesus the son of Jehovah. Worse yet they made him a mulitple personality of Jehovah as if he wasn't insane enough already that had to give him a disorder.
Song of Songs 8:6
Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm:
for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave:
the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it
Jealousy is as cruel as the grave?
Exodus 34:13
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, WHOSE NAME IS JEALOUS, is a jealous God: Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a WHORING after their gods.
Is God really Jealous?
1 John 4:8
8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
God is Love? What is Love?
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
God is Love and Love is not Jealous?
This god who's name is Jealous is therefore not God!
Isaiah 45:7
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
James 1:13
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Isaiah 45:3
3And I will give thee the treasures of darknessJames 1:17
17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Ug, treasures of darkness? No thanks. Are we really talking about the same God here?
Seriously
me used to say well maybe that wasent god ,but now me just boldly tell what he gives me,for god is love ,not a liar or murderer,yet moses was a murderer from the beginning, jesus also said there will be one accuser even mosses in whom you trust,the only other referance to accuser is satan who was cast to earth with all his angels,in revalations.is love accuseing,hmmm
think your missing one thing now me know paul said alot of wonderful things ,he even quoted alot of scripure,but me wouldent put all my eggs in that basket,he is very anti christ.he even has the gaul to use gods whole memeorial name for himself, by saying I AM WHAT I AM ,this is blasphemy ,to sutley declair himself to be god,he is the only one to do this in the whole bible other than god in ex 3 :14,hmmm satan always shows up somewhere as an angel of light to decieve the whole world.
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