- This topic is empty.
- Posts
TC27 said:
Quote So no one will go near it huh? Well I will go inside it for you. We can all agree that Jesus was anointed. We see in Hebrews that God can anoint himself, but even if we didn't, Jesus was fully God and fully man. Therefore, he could be anointed. TC27,
Exactly! Man can anoint man, king can anoint king and God can anoint God. Hebrews explicitly says that God anointed God (1:8-9). Those who say that God cannot do this or that NEVER provide the Scripture to back it up.Okay Nick, You have been offered Hebrews 1:8-9 as evidence that God can anoint God. What Scripture do you offer to counter?
thinker
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 01 2009,13:28) Quote (thethinker @ July 01 2009,11:36) bodhitharta said: Quote All though it was tampered with, God even protected it enough to not even mention the words TRINITY, TRIUNE and other words that would have been almost impossible to discredit if they were allowed to get them in there and yet you think it is the most important thing of all to tell people and God does not even let it get in there once. bd,
You said that Paul used guile and decit and I even bragged about it. Therefore, you cannot appeal to Paul. You say that God protected it enough not to mention the words “trinity” or “triune.” How do you know? the Scriptures were tampered with as you say, then maybe the words “trinity” and “triune” were in the Bible but were removed by biased people. Can't you see that your reasoning is circular? You can't say the Bible was protected from certain words. For if it was tampered with then the words you mention may have been in the Bible and then deleted.You cannot invoke “proof texts” for your beliefs from a document which you say has been tampered with unless It's that simple. If the Bible has been tampered with, the whole document must be trashed?
thinker
Actually a tampered document can be used to prove itself keep in mind to tamper with something means a little here and a little there because a massive change would bo immediately noticeable. But look above in your quote and see if you cannot determine that your post was tampered with and at the same time can prove itself.
bd,
But how do you know what was tampered with and what was not? When you asserted that the Jewish Scriptures were tampered with you lost your ability to prove anything from them. Don't you get it? Your appeal to them is irrational if they were tampered with.thinker
Paladin said:
Quote He cannot be fully man, who is mortal, and fully God who is immortal. It is a contradiction. Paladin,
That's what the Gnostics say but Paul says otherwise.Quote The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second manis the Lord FROM heaven (1 Corinthians 15:46) Paul said that the second Man was from heaven. Wouldn't a man from heaven be immortal?
thinker
Gene said:
Quote Paladin……..You have rightly stated it , its amazing that no one has counterdcted what you have posted, Here, The truth is always powerful, so it easer for them to just aviod the issues tehn deal with them brother. IMO Gene,
Have you noticed how much Paladin has been contradicting himself lately? Are you sure you want to be in the corner of the one who is defeating himself?thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 01 2009,19:27) TC27 said: Quote So no one will go near it huh? Well I will go inside it for you. We can all agree that Jesus was anointed. We see in Hebrews that God can anoint himself, but even if we didn't, Jesus was fully God and fully man. Therefore, he could be anointed. TC27,
Exactly! Man can anoint man, king can anoint king and God can anoint God. Hebrews explicitly says that God anointed God (1:8-9). Those who say that God cannot do this or that NEVER provide the Scripture to back it up.Okay Nick, You have been offered Hebrews 1:8-9 as evidence that God can anoint God. What Scripture do you offer to counter?
thinker
Hi TT,
Anointing is a sign of Commission and Empowerment.
Why would God need to give Himself any such things.
Is He not the source of all things in your thoughts?And Who is the God called in Hebrews and the Psalm, THY GOD?
The same as shown in Jn20, and 1 Cor 8-the God of Jesus Christ and us?
HEAR YE OH ISERAL THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE LORD MARK 12:29
ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM EPH 4:5
FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE. 1JOHN 5:7
I AND MY FATHER ORE ONE. JOHN 10:30
HERE AE SOME VERSES THAT I SEE AS ONLY ONE GOD NOT THREE DIFFERENT PERSONS BEING ONE GOD
Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 01 2009,23:47) HEAR YE OH ISERAL THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE LORD MARK 12:29 ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM EPH 4:5
FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE. 1JOHN 5:7
I AND MY FATHER ORE ONE. JOHN 10:30
HERE AE SOME VERSES THAT I SEE AS ONLY ONE GOD NOT THREE DIFFERENT PERSONS BEING ONE GOD
You left out Philippians 2 which says that every tongue must confess that Jesus is Lord. I think you ought to side with bodhitharta who said that Paul lied and even bragged about it. Paul said that Jesus is Lord. Was he lying?thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 01 2009,19:27) TC27 said: Quote So no one will go near it huh? Well I will go inside it for you. We can all agree that Jesus was anointed. We see in Hebrews that God can anoint himself, but even if we didn't, Jesus was fully God and fully man. Therefore, he could be anointed. TC27,
Exactly! Man can anoint man, king can anoint king and God can anoint God. Hebrews explicitly says that God anointed God (1:8-9). Those who say that God cannot do this or that NEVER provide the Scripture to back it up.Okay Nick, You have been offered Hebrews 1:8-9 as evidence that God can anoint God. What Scripture do you offer to counter?
thinker
Where do you get God anointing God?What you have is Elohim anointing a resurrected man, who because of his resurrection, is now Elohim himself. It is a quote from the 45th Psalm.
Psa 45:6 Thy throne, O (Elohiym) God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7: Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Elohiym) God, thy (Elohiym) God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
{Quoted in Heb 1:8-9 and applied to resurrected Jesus}
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O ~God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore *God, even thy *God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [NOTE:~God is in the vocative, not the nominative; *God is in the nominative, not the vocative]Quote (Paladin @ July 01 2009,14:15) Quote (thethinker @ July 01 2009,19:27) TC27 said: Quote So no one will go near it huh? Well I will go inside it for you. We can all agree that Jesus was anointed. We see in Hebrews that God can anoint himself, but even if we didn't, Jesus was fully God and fully man. Therefore, he could be anointed. TC27,
Exactly! Man can anoint man, king can anoint king and God can anoint God. Hebrews explicitly says that God anointed God (1:8-9). Those who say that God cannot do this or that NEVER provide the Scripture to back it up.Okay Nick, You have been offered Hebrews 1:8-9 as evidence that God can anoint God. What Scripture do you offer to counter?
thinker
Where do you get God anointing God?What you have is Elohim anointing a resurrected man, who because of his resurrection, is now Elohim himself. It is a quote from the 45th Psalm.
Psa 45:6 Thy throne, O (Elohiym) God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7: Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Elohiym) God, thy (Elohiym) God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
{Quoted in Heb 1:8-9 and applied to resurrected Jesus}
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O ~God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore *God, even thy *God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [NOTE:~God is in the vocative, not the nominative; *God is in the nominative, not the vocative]
Hi ALLThere he goes again, contradicting scriptures by denying the writer of the scriptures his intended meaning by context.
1:8 but of the Son “he says“,
“Your throne, O God“, is forever and ever,
and a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom.
1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness.
So God, your God, has anointed you over your companions with the oil of rejoicing.” Heb 1:8, 9 NET
24tn Or possibly, “Your throne is God forever and ever.” This translation is quite doubtful, however, since (1) in the context the Son is being contrasted to the angels and is presented as far better than they. The imagery of God being the Son’s throne would seem to be of God being his authority. If so, in what sense could this not be said of the angels? In what sense is the Son thus contrasted with the angels? (2) The μέν…δέ (men…de) construction that connects v. 7 with v. 8 clearly lays out this contrast: “On the one hand, he says of the angels…on the other hand, he says of the Son.” Thus, although it is grammatically possible that θεός (qeos) in v. 8 should be taken as a predicate nominative, the context and the correlative conjunctions are decidedly against it. Hebrews 1:8 is thus a strong affirmation of the deity of Christ. Source
4. God has said concerning Christ, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, etc., v. 8–12. But of the angels he has only said that he hath made them spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire, v. 7. Now, upon comparing what he here says of the angels with what he says to Christ, the vast inferiority of the angels to Christ will plainly appear. Source
Verse 8. Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever
If this be said of the Son of God, i.e. Jesus Christ, then Jesus Christ must be God; and indeed the design of the apostle is to prove this. The words here quoted are taken from Psalms 45:6,7, which the ancient Chaldee paraphrast, and the most intelligent rabbins, refer to the Messiah. On the third verse of this Psalm, Thou art fairer than the children of men, the Targum says: “Thy beauty, malca Meshicha, O King Messiah, is greater than the children of men.” Aben Ezra says: “This Psalm speaks of David, or rather of his son, the Messiah, for this is his name,” Ezekiel 34:24: And David my servant shall be a Prince over them for ever. Other rabbins confirm this opinion.This verse is very properly considered a proof, and indeed a strong one, of the Divinity of Christ; but some late versions of the New Testament have endeavoured to avoid the evidence of this proof by translating the words thus: God is thy throne for ever and ever; and if this version be correct, it is certain the text can be no proof of the doctrine. Mr. Wakefield vindicates this translation at large in his History of Opinions; and οθεος, being the nominative case, is supposed to be a sufficient justification of this version. In answer to this it may be stated that the nominative case is often used for the vocative, particularly by the Attics; and the whole scope of the place requires it should be so used here; and, with due deference to all of a contrary opinion, the original Hebrew cannot be consistently translated any other way, kisaca Elohim olam vaed, Thy throne, O God, is for ever, and to eternity. It is in both worlds; and extends over all time; and will exist through all endless duration. To this our Lord seems to refer, Matthew 28:18: All power is given unto me, both in HEAVEN and EARTH. My throne, i.e. my dominion, extends from the creation to the consummation of all things. These I have made, and these I uphold; and from the end of the world, throughout eternity, I shall have the same glory-sovereign, unlimited power and authority, which I had with the Father before the world began; John 17:5. I may add that none of the ancient versions has understood it in the way contended for by those who deny the Godhead of Christ, either in the Psalm from which it is taken, or in this place where it is quoted. Aquila translates Elohim, by θεε, O God, in the vocative case; and the Arabic adds the sign of the vocative [Arabic] ya, reading the place thus: [Arabic] korsee yallaho ila abadilabada, the same as in our version. And even allowing that οθεος here is to be used as the nominative case, it will not make the sense contended for, without adding εστι to it, a reading which is not countenanced by any version, nor by any MS. yet discovered. Wiclif, Coverdale, and others, understood it as the nominative, and translated it so; and yet it is evident that this nominative has the power of the vocative: forsothe to the sone God thi troone into the world of world: a gerde of equite the gerde of thi reume. I give this, pointing and all, as it stands in my old MS. Bible. Wiclif is nearly the same, but is evidently of a more modern cast: but to the sone he seith, God thy trone is into the world of world, a gherd of equyte is the gherd of thi rewme. Coverdale translates it thus: But unto the sonne he sayeth, God, thi seate endureth for ever and ever: the cepter of thi kyngdome is a right cepter. Tindal and others follow in the same way, all reading it in the nominative case, with the force of the vocative; for none of them has inserted the word εστι, is, because not authorized by the original: a word which the opposers of the Divinity of our Lo
rd are obliged to beg, in order to support their interpretation. See some farther criticisms on this at the end of this chapter. SourceSince you seem to think that others need long drawn out post to deny what the scriptures say, here is some information that prove what they say, though I am quite sure that you will exalt youself above them.
Thats right PD, I believe the scriptures as they read and not your twisted view of them!
Blessings WJ
Paladin said:
Quote Where do you get God anointing God? What you have is Elohim anointing a resurrected man, who because of his resurrection, is now Elohim himself. It is a quote from the 45th Psalm.
Psa 45:6 Thy throne, O (Elohiym) God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7: Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Elohiym) God, thy (Elohiym) God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
{Quoted in Heb 1:8-9 and applied to resurrected Jesus}
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O ~God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore *God, even thy *God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [NOTE:~God is in the vocative, not the nominative; *God is in the nominative, not the vocative]Paladin,
Verse 10 says that God ascribed the creation of all things to the Son saying,Quote You have from the begining laid the foundation of the earth. And the heavens are the wok of Your hands Are we not speaking about a man who is Elohim is a much higher sense than you want to admit? The Father said that creation was the work of the Son's hands. Do you ever consider context at all?
thinker
Hi TT,
So Jesus was not needing to be anointed by the Holy Spirit and power?
He did not have God with him because he is God?
Acts 10.38 differs.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2009,07:35) Hi TT,
So Jesus was not needing to be anointed by the Holy Spirit and power?
He did not have God with him because he is God?
Acts 10.38 differs.
Nick,
In Genesis the man and the woman were both called “Adam.” So the woman was with Adam and was Adam.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 01 2009,14:41) Hi BD,
So back to Acts 10.38?
Nick,WOW, you dog people for not answering a Scripture verse that you gave to support and argument? I am STILL waiting on you to explain Titus 2:13. If you cannot answer this how can you expect to be answered? Also, you forget that I already went into detail about Acts 10:38.
TC27
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2009,10:41) Hi BD,
So back to Acts 10.38?
Acts 1034 And Peter having opened his mouth, said, `Of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons,
35 but in every nation he who is fearing Him, and is working righteousness, is acceptable to Him;
36t he word that he sent to the sons of Israel, proclaiming good news — peace through Jesus Christ (this one is Lord of all,)
37 ye — ye have known; — the word that came throughout all Judea, having begun from Galilee, after the baptism that John preached;
38 Jesus who [is] from Nazareth — how God did anoint him with the Holy Spirit and power; who went through, doing good, and healing all those oppressed by the devil, because God was with him;
Hi TC,
Letting scripture speak is not about answering every question.
You must find you own answers by aligning scriptures.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2009,11:54) Hi TC,
Letting scripture speak is not about answering every question.
You must find you own answers by aligning scriptures.
Nick,
I marvel that you would speak about “aligning” the Scriptures. When you give TC a Scrpture she deals with it and harmonizes it with other Scripture. But when you are given Scripture by others you pit Scripture against itself. Practice your own advise.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2009,02:26) Hi TT,
Now how is it again that god was anointed by god with god?{acts 10.38]
Nick,How much do you need? I already explained this verse to you.
TC27
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
