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Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 10 2009,04:57) HI TC27, I am a Universal Salvationist. So don't be too offended from my saying that according to 2 Timothy 2 you appear to deny Jesus.
Either your a human being or your not. You need BOTH EGG and SPERM to be a man. Jesus was born a HUMAN infant, not part God.
Just what made the baby, God?
The fact that he needed EVERYTHING from the Father?
The fact that he grew in wisdom?
The fact that he needed the Holy Spirit?
How about the fact that he died?Man needs God's Spirit working in him in order to be righteous, for Jesus being half God, wouldn't that have been enough? Why would he then need the Father and His Spirit?
Wouldn't being part God give Jesus an advantage?
So it was because he was just part God, that is what made him need to be subject to the Father and follow God's will and not his own? It was because he was half man, he needed to be subject to the Father? Where is such a scripture to prove your understanding?
As I said, the 2/3 part of the godhead seemed to get along just fine for many years without it's 1/3 member, what does that tell us beyond the fact that God can significantly change?
To come IN the flesh, does that mean NOTHING to you? You DO NOT come in the flesh when your part God. That is absurd.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
According to you he was NOT born according to the flesh. You add with NO scriptural authority and say he was born being both flesh and both God. To say Jesus was anything more then flesh is to DENY Jesus.
Can you show me a scripture that says God was FULLY God and fully man? Seriously how is a man fully a man and fully God?
1Jo 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
TC27 why don't you think for a minute about why the above scripture would even need to be said.1Jo 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Did Jesus look like a human being? Were people astonished by his appearance? Why would people you think even consider that Jesus was not flesh? Could it have been because he performed great miracles and wonders people thought he was God? I would say that is more then likely, so that would be why it was necessary to state that Jesus came in the flesh.
Hebrews 5:8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Why would God need to learn obedience to God through suffering?
Romans 6:5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Jesus did not go back to being God, he was never God. Jesus was a human being and he was resurrected a human being. When he was on earth with a corruptible body he denied his flesh, even though every second of his life it asked him to serve it, he put God first in all things and followed not the will of his flesh but he followed the will of God. Death has dominion over us all because we must serve our flesh in order to live. Jesus now has eternal life so his flesh no longer needs to serve itself it has been FREED from death and the fear of it. The body of sin has been done away with in Christ, for in him is the resurrection of the dead and the gift of eternal life, where we too will have a body that won't need to serve itself.
Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Romans 5:17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
Jesus was a man NO different from Adam. God's plan of which He had in the beginning was to save the world through a MAN, not through a part God/Man.
Joh 4:34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
Joh 7:16Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
If Jesus was part God while on earth then WHY wouldn't the work that he did being God be his work also? Why is it just the Fathers?
You had said TC27, I believe to Nick, that it was just while Jesus was a man on earth he was made subject to the Father. However we see Jesus after the resurrection STILL being subject to the Father.
Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
According to you TC27, wouldn't Jesus being God, had to have sent himself along with the Father?
Can't you see how the trinity doctrine makes the word of God foolish?
Who did God send, himself?
Joh 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
2 Samuel 7:12 “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
Ro 1:3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,
No scripture tells us that God sent part of itself to earth, or that God sent a spirit Son. What scripture shows is that God had a promise given
to David that he would raise up an eternal king of his blood. When Jesus came into the world that PROMISE was sent and came into the world.Revelation 1:3 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants–things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. 4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.Even in the final book of the bible we see Jesus needing the Father, and that the Father is the God of Jesus.
Jesus even after his resurrection has a God to serve.
Re 22:1 And he showed me a pure* river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Re 22:3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
Once again,
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' “
Ro 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Do you see the distinction? Jesus is not the ONE True God.
Ro 15:6 that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Jesus is our master, he is our brother and our future king on earth. He is NOT the ONE true God, that is the Father YHWH.
2Co 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Co 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.
How many times TC27 do you need to see it to believe it?
Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),
Ga 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ,
Ga 1:4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
Eph 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Could it be anymore clear?
Eph 5:20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 6:23 Peace to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Php 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Php 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus Christ is our master TO THE GLORY of God the Father!
Php 4:20 Now to our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen.
Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Col 1:3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
Col 3:17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.
1Th 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 1:3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,
1Th 3:11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you.
1Th 3:13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.b
2Th 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace,
1Ti 1:2 To Timothy, a true son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
2Ti 1:2 To Timothy, a beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Tit 1:4 To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.
Phm 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
2Pe 1:17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
2Jo 1:3 Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
Jude 1:1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:
Re 1:6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, t
o Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.Please think on the sciptures,
Peace to you, Jodi
Excellent post! but no matter how thorough you were they won't listen, it's amazing! You may not read the Quran but it does say(19) Or deemest thou that most of them hear or understand? They are but as the cattle – nay, but they are farther astray?
( سورة الفرقان , Al-Furqan, Chapter #25, Verse #44)Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,05:54) Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 09 2009,08:57) HI TC27, I am a Universal Salvationist. So don't be too offended from my saying that according to 2 Timothy 2 you appear to deny Jesus.
Either your a human being or your not. You need BOTH EGG and SPERM to be a man. Jesus was born a HUMAN infant, not part God.
Just what made the baby, God?
The fact that he needed EVERYTHING from the Father?
The fact that he grew in wisdom?
The fact that he needed the Holy Spirit?
How about the fact that he died?Man needs God's Spirit working in him in order to be righteous, for Jesus being half God, wouldn't that have been enough? Why would he then need the Father and His Spirit?
Wouldn't being part God give Jesus an advantage?
So it was because he was just part God, that is what made him need to be subject to the Father and follow God's will and not his own? It was because he was half man, he needed to be subject to the Father? Where is such a scripture to prove your understanding?
As I said, the 2/3 part of the godhead seemed to get along just fine for many years without it's 1/3 member, what does that tell us beyond the fact that God can significantly change?
To come IN the flesh, does that mean NOTHING to you? You DO NOT come in the flesh when your part God. That is absurd.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
According to you he was NOT born according to the flesh. You add with NO scriptural authority and say he was born being both flesh and both God. To say Jesus was anything more then flesh is to DENY Jesus.
Can you show me a scripture that says God was FULLY God and fully man? Seriously how is a man fully a man and fully God?
1Jo 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
TC27 why don't you think for a minute about why the above scripture would even need to be said.1Jo 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Did Jesus look like a human being? Were people astonished by his appearance? Why would people you think even consider that Jesus was not flesh? Could it have been because he performed great miracles and wonders people thought he was God? I would say that is more then likely, so that would be why it was necessary to state that Jesus came in the flesh.
Hebrews 5:8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Why would God need to learn obedience to God through suffering?
Romans 6:5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Jesus did not go back to being God, he was never God. Jesus was a human being and he was resurrected a human being. When he was on earth with a corruptible body he denied his flesh, even though every second of his life it asked him to serve it, he put God first in all things and followed not the will of his flesh but he followed the will of God. Death has dominion over us all because we must serve our flesh in order to live. Jesus now has eternal life so his flesh no longer needs to serve itself it has been FREED from death and the fear of it. The body of sin has been done away with in Christ, for in him is the resurrection of the dead and the gift of eternal life, where we too will have a body that won't need to serve itself.
Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Romans 5:17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
Jesus was a man NO different from Adam. God's plan of which He had in the beginning was to save the world through a MAN, not through a part God/Man.
Joh 4:34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
Joh 7:16Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
If Jesus was part God while on earth then WHY wouldn't the work that he did being God be his work also? Why is it just the Fathers?
You had said TC27, I believe to Nick, that it was just while Jesus was a man on earth he was made subject to the Father. However we see Jesus after the resurrection STILL being subject to the Father.
Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
According to you TC27, wouldn't Jesus being God, had to have sent himself along with the Father?
Can't you see how the trinity doctrine makes the word of God foolish?
Who did God send, himself?
Joh 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
2 Samuel 7:12 “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
Ro 1:3 con
cerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,No scripture tells us that God sent part of itself to earth, or that God sent a spirit Son. What scripture shows is that God had a promise given to David that he would raise up an eternal king of his blood. When Jesus came into the world that PROMISE was sent and came into the world.
Revelation 1:3 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants–things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. 4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.Even in the final book of the bible we see Jesus needing the Father, and that the Father is the God of Jesus.
Jesus even after his resurrection has a God to serve.
Re 22:1 And he showed me a pure* river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Re 22:3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
Once again,
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' “
Ro 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Do you see the distinction? Jesus is not the ONE True God.
Ro 15:6 that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Jesus is our master, he is our brother and our future king on earth. He is NOT the ONE true God, that is the Father YHWH.
2Co 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Co 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.
How many times TC27 do you need to see it to believe it?
Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),
Ga 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ,
Ga 1:4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
Eph 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Could it be anymore clear?
Eph 5:20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 6:23 Peace to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Php 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Php 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus Christ is our master TO THE GLORY of God the Father!
Php 4:20 Now to our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen.
Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Col 1:3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
Col 3:17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.
1Th 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 1:3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,
1Th 3:11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you.
1Th 3:13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.b
2Th 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace,
1Ti 1:2 To Timothy, a true son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
2Ti 1:2 To Timothy, a beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Tit 1:4 To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.
Phm 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
2Pe 1:17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
2Jo 1:3 Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
Jude 1:1 Ju
de, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:Re 1:6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Please think on the sciptures,
Peace to you, Jodi
Jodi,You severely misrepresent my words. I said that Jesus was man and God, I did not say he was half God. He was FULLY 100% both. The verses you gave prove nothing seeing as trinitarians do believe in the separate persons of the Father and the Son. Paul was making a distinction that the persons were separate by saying “our Great God and our Savior Jesus Christ” in the verses that you gave. This in no way disproves that they are ONE together. God is one entity that exists in three persons. The idea may seem absurd, but if you stop for a second and think about it, you use that ideology all the time. You say the word class. Class is a singular word, but it implies plurality. One class consists of many students. Now here are verses that prove the sovereignty of Our God Jesus.
Genesis 1:26-27
Quote 26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.Genesis 3:22
Quote 22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” Genesis 11:7
Quote 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” Isaiah 6:8
Quote 8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”Isaiah 7:14
Quote 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. Immanuel means: “God with us”
Isaiah 9:6
Quote 6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.1 Timothy 3:14-16
Quote 14Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. 16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He appeared in a body,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.The “he” in this passage is God. Paul says that God appeared in the body.
John 1:1
Quote 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. John 1:14
Quote 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Colossians 2:8-9
Quote 8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. 9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
Colossians 1:15-20
Quote 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Titus 2:13
Quote 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, Philippians 2:5-11
Quote 5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and un
der the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.The fact that he made himself nothing shows that he had the choice which implies sovereignty. Also he was exalted to the highest place which means equality with the Father.
John 10:30
Quote 30I and the Father are one.” John 20:28
Quote 28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” These verses are so few in comparison with all of the verses that exist to support the deity of Christ. I will post more of them later. Wrestle with these. They are irrefutable.
TC27
Immanuel is not the name of Jesus
and Jesus is not the name of Goddo you just pick anything out and attach it to God?
Hi TC,
A multitude of what you see as strong implications all patched together do not make one fact.
Jesus did not teach that He was God but told us the Father is his God and our God.
He told us he is the Son of God but who yet listens to his teachings?
Your foundations are the teachings of men it would seem.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2009,10:23) Hi TC,
A multitude of what you see as strong implications all patched together do not make one fact.
Jesus did not teach that He was God but told us the Father is his God and our God.
He told us he is the Son of God but who yet listens to his teachings?
Your foundations are the teachings of men it would seem.
Nick,I give all those verses to support trinitarianism and all you can say to me is this? Can you not defend your own faith?
TC27
Hi TC,
You can offer all the verses you want but no anointed servant of God has taught trinity
so why do you?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2009,12:15) Hi TC,
You can offer all the verses you want but no anointed servant of God has taught trinity
so why do you?
Nick,Do they actually need to sit down and spell it out for the truth to be known? Have you ever thought that it was known to the people of the Bible and so it wasn't necessary to spell it out in the sky? The Bible gives plenty of evidence of the trinity and yet you choose otherwise. You forget that the Bible was written at a different time, and have you ever thought that maybe they knew God was trinity so it didn't need to be pounded into their heads? Most Christians are trinitarians, and only a small portion deny the deity of Christ. So it aparantly is obvious to our generation too. You are blind to it.
TC27
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 10 2009,06:23) Hi TC,
A multitude of what you see as strong implications all patched together do not make one fact.
Jesus did not teach that He was God but told us the Father is his God and our God.
He told us he is the Son of God but who yet listens to his teachings?
Your foundations are the teachings of men it would seem.
Nick Most of the time I do agree with you, but did the Father in Hebrew not say this?
Hebrew 1:8 ……” Your throne O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is a scepter of your Kingdom.verse 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more then Your companions.”
In John 1:1 He is called the Word who is God and wad with God.
So according to you these verses don't count? He does call Him His Son also. And it takes nothing away from the fact that the Father is greater then His Son.
Ephesians 4:6
Deut. 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightiest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD.
1 Cor. 8:4 And that there is none other God but one.
When you see LORD in capital letters, it is always the Almighty God, and when it is written Lord it is the Son of God.
You do know that I do not believe in a trinity doctrine. It is not written.Peace and Love Irene
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 09 2009,03:27) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 09 2009,17:33) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 08 2009,13:17) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2009,19:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 08 2009,02:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2009,18:42) This is a total misconception of what death is scripturally. Death is simply the absence of the Spirit from the Body which takes place when the body gives out. James said…
”AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD”, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26
The Bible says that Jesus went to the center of the earth for three days and three nights like Jonah in the belly of the fish.
Jonah was alive, and so was Jesus in Spirit. We are Spirit beings who live in a flesh temple called the Temple of God.
Paul says…
Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. “Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling”, because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 2 Cor 5:1-3
Then Paul says…
Therefore we are always confident and know “THAT AS LONG AS WE ARE AT HOME IN THE BODY WE ARE AWAY FROM THE LORD.2 Cor 5:6So what does all this mean? It means that the Word that Was with God and was God was Tabernacled among us (John 1:1, 14, 18), and we beheld his glory, and the Word which was the Spirit of Jesus that lived in that human Body in fashion as a man, did not die, but went to the center of the earth (Hades) for three days and three nights.
Now let it be known to anti-trinitarians that the argument that God didn’t die is a fallacy for Jesus body gave up the ghost and his Spirit which is and was Eternal could never die.
All scriptures make sense when you see Jesus for who he really is.
Blessings WJ
WJ,I love you so I must be blunt to really assist you with understanding all this.
You stated “death is simply the absense of the spirit from the body which takes place when the body gives out.” Now that we have “Your” definition lets see if it works, okay?
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death(the absence of the spirit from the body), till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
now 27 says:
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
This has not occured and everyone who would have been standing there would be “absent of the spirit from the body” today, right?
as I said before
You will not be able to handle this truth so you will attack me, but you are going to have to close your eyes and avoid being honest or you are going to have to admit that according to your own definition that I have provided correct information.
Hi BDQuote (bodhitharta @ July 08 2009,02:59) This has not occured and everyone who would have been standing there would be “absent of the spirit from the body” today, right?
Does the scripture you quote say “everyone who would have been standing there”? Why do you misquote the scripture?Quote (bodhitharta @ July 08 2009,02:59) You will not be able to handle this truth so you will attack me, but you are going to have to close your eyes and avoid being honest or you are going to have to admit that according to your own definition that I have provided correct information.
Where have I attacked you? Is disagreeing with you an attack?I showed you what scriptures say death is…
”AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD”, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26
Do you believe every one that ever lived on this planet experienced a natural death?
If you do then what about Enoch and Elijah?
WJ
I didn't say you did attack me, what I said was the only options you have are agreeing that I have provided correct information or attacking me.Now, I said that there was no one living from that time and that event has not happened, would you agree?
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death(the absence of the spirit from the body), till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
would it be safe to say that everyone from that generation has tasted death?
Matthew 24:33-35 (King James Version)
33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled
Would it be fair to say that, that generation has passed? and all those things have not been fulfilled have they?
Matthew 24 (King James Version)
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
has that happened? That generation has long passed many generations ago.
Ecclesiastes 1:3-5 (King James Version)
4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
Is this correct information?
Hi BDQuote (bodhitharta @ July 08 2009,13:17)
I didn't say you did attack me, what I said was the only options you have are agreeing that I have provided correct information or attacking me.Now, I said that there was no one living from that time and that event has not happened, would you agree?
No, I do not agree!
Why, because the scriptures clearly say….
Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. “Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling”, because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 2 Cor 5:1-3
Then Paul says…
Therefore we are always confident and know “THAT AS LONG AS WE ARE AT HOME IN THE BODY WE ARE AWAY FROM THE LORD.2 Cor 5:6So while they are not here in the flesh they are still alive and present with the Lord…
When he opened the fifth seal, “I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained“. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?“ Rev 6:9, 10
Again Jesus said…
and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?” John 11:26
Those who live and believe in Jesus shall never die, because they have eternal life! Their Spirits that are born of him, if the Lord tarries, leaves their Bodies and go to be with Jesus.
Again, I reiterate I believe that when Jesus said… “some standing here would not taste of death”, probably didn’t taste of death because Jesus took them just as in like manner YHWH took Enoch and Elijah. So your implication that Jesus didn’t know, IMO is false, for as I previously showed you that he had been given all things!
WJ
WJ,You can't be serious.
There was a combination of scriptures that prove that the prediction was simply presumptuous and the fact is Jesus said that he did not know when the hour would be. This simply shows that Jesus was not God because God saying anything would come to pass.
1. some standing here will not taste death…..
2. This generation will not pass till all these things be fulfilled….This combination of scriptures is so clear that bearing false witness is not even good enough. Just deal with the actual scriptural proof and then you will understand. Don't simply conjure up things like Simon Magus.
God did not tell you to lie in order to be godly. The fact is the events did not occur and no amount of mystical Cris angel/ David blaine mind tricks can dismiss this point that you are trying so hard to avoid.
I don't blame you though even Nick is trying to conjure up an excuse. BELIEVE the scriptures.
BDI do not apporeciate being called a liar!
I do not do that to you and I don't expect you to do that to me.
You have proven nothing of the sort. I give you scriptures that you ignore and then yoiu say that I am lying.
You do know that slander is not allowed on this board don't you?
You have yoiur opinion fine. I have mine and you have failed to prove what I am saying as being wrong!
WJ
WJ,
They tell us that we lie but do not say how we are wrong. It makes no sense and it never will. They think they can prove anti-trinitarianism, but all they do it take themselves in circles that make me dizzy.
TC27
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,08:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2009,12:15) Hi TC,
You can offer all the verses you want but no anointed servant of God has taught trinity
so why do you?
Nick,Do they actually need to sit down and spell it out for the truth to be known? Have you ever thought that it was known to the people of the Bible and so it wasn't necessary to spell it out in the sky? The Bible gives plenty of evidence of the trinity and yet you choose otherwise. You forget that the Bible was written at a different time, and have you ever thought that maybe they knew God was trinity so it didn't need to be pounded into their heads? Most Christians are trinitarians, and only a small portion deny the deity of Christ. So it aparantly is obvious to our generation too. You are blind to it.
TC27
Hi TC,
So all the evidence for a human theory can now be obtained by reading between the lines?It is no longer necessary to find teachings in the mouth of God's anointed servants?
Is this approved of by the one who said to dig deep and lay our foundation on his teachings?
Following multitudes of other deceived men can only lead to their appointed pit.
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,08:58) WJ, They tell us that we lie but do not say how we are wrong. It makes no sense and it never will. They think they can prove anti-trinitarianism, but all they do it take themselves in circles that make me dizzy.
TC27
Hi TC,
You are reliant on a different basis for what you say is truth.
You quote the bible but the bible does not teach trinity?Choose today whom you will serve-God or tradition
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2009,12:59) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,08:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2009,12:15) Hi TC,
You can offer all the verses you want but no anointed servant of God has taught trinity
so why do you?
Nick,Do they actually need to sit down and spell it out for the truth to be known? Have you ever thought that it was known to the people of the Bible and so it wasn't necessary to spell it out in the sky? The Bible gives plenty of evidence of the trinity and yet you choose otherwise. You forget that the Bible was written at a different time, and have you ever thought that maybe they knew God was trinity so it didn't need to be pounded into their heads? Most Christians are trinitarians, and only a small portion deny the deity of Christ. So it aparantly is obvious to our generation too. You are blind to it.
TC27
Hi TC,
So all the evidence for a human theory can now be obtained by reading between the lines?It is no longer necessary to find teachings in the mouth of God's anointed servants?
Is this approved of by the one who said to dig deep and lay our foundation on his teachings?
Following multitudes of other deceived men can only lead to their appointed pit.
Nick,I never said they didn't teach that Jesus was God. All I said was they do not actually say “trinity or three in one.” That does not mean they do not teach it. You just misunderstand what they say. All the verses I just gave you were proof of that. The prophet Isaiah taught it all over the place.
TC27
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,08:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2009,12:15) Hi TC,
You can offer all the verses you want but no anointed servant of God has taught trinity
so why do you?
Nick,Do they actually need to sit down and spell it out for the truth to be known? Have you ever thought that it was known to the people of the Bible and so it wasn't necessary to spell it out in the sky? The Bible gives plenty of evidence of the trinity and yet you choose otherwise. You forget that the Bible was written at a different time, and have you ever thought that maybe they knew God was trinity so it didn't need to be pounded into their heads? Most Christians are trinitarians, and only a small portion deny the deity of Christ. So it aparantly is obvious to our generation too. You are blind to it.
TC27
You are certainly right that most so called Christian believe in the trinity doctrine. That however does not make it right. The whole world is being deceived. Only those who our Almighty God calls out of that system will know the truth. You have failed to prove to me that the trinity is written in the Bible, and read the post I just made to Nick, where I explained that there is no trinity.
I have said before, that the Apostles did not believe in the trinity. It was a man made doctrine.
It was Quintus Septimius Florence Tertullian in before A.D. 230
who first instituted it.Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Cindy @ July 09 2009,13:08) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,08:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2009,12:15) Hi TC,
You can offer all the verses you want but no anointed servant of God has taught trinity
so why do you?
Nick,Do they actually need to sit down and spell it out for the truth to be known? Have you ever thought that it was known to the people of the Bible and so it wasn't necessary to spell it out in the sky? The Bible gives plenty of evidence of the trinity and yet you choose otherwise. You forget that the Bible was written at a different time, and have you ever thought that maybe they knew God was trinity so it didn't need to be pounded into their heads? Most Christians are trinitarians, and only a small portion deny the deity of Christ. So it aparantly is obvious to our generation too. You are blind to it.
TC27
You are certainly right that most so called Christian believe in the trinity doctrine. That however does not make it right. The whole world is being deceived. Only hose who our Almihty God calls out of that system will know the truth. Yopu have ailed to ptrove to me that the trinity is written in the Bivle and read the post I hust made to nick where I explained that there is no trinity.
I have said before, that the Apostles did not believe in the trinity. It was a man made doctrine.
It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian in vefore A.D. 230
who first instituded it.Peace and Love Irene
Irene,Just because he was the first one to come up with a name for it does not mean it is not truth. The apostles never said they did not believe in a trinity God. So your standard has to go both ways.
TC27
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,09:11) Quote (Cindy @ July 09 2009,13:08) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,08:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2009,12:15) Hi TC,
You can offer all the verses you want but no anointed servant of God has taught trinity
so why do you?
Nick,Do they actually need to sit down and spell it out for the truth to be known? Have you ever thought that it was known to the people of the Bible and so it wasn't necessary to spell it out in the sky? The Bible gives plenty of evidence of the trinity and yet you choose otherwise. You forget that the Bible was written at a different time, and have you ever thought that maybe they knew God was trinity so it didn't need to be pounded into their heads? Most Christians are trinitarians, and only a small portion deny the deity of Christ. So it aparantly is obvious to our generation too. You are blind to it.
TC27
You are certainly right that most so called Christian believe in the trinity doctrine. That however does not make it right. The whole world is being deceived. Only hose who our Almihty God calls out of that system will know the truth. Yopu have ailed to ptrove to me that the trinity is written in the Bivle and read the post I hust made to nick where I explained that there is no trinity.
I have said before, that the Apostles did not believe in the trinity. It was a man made doctrine.
It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian in vefore A.D. 230
who first instituded it.Peace and Love Irene
Irene,Just because he was the first one to come up with a name for it does not mean it is not truth. The apostles never said they did not believe in a trinity God. So your standard has to go both ways.
TC27
You are funny, just that the Apostles did not deny it, they did not even heard of it, until that man brought it up.
IreneQuote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 09 2009,16:58) WJ, They tell us that we lie but do not say how we are wrong. It makes no sense and it never will. They think they can prove anti-trinitarianism, but all they do it take themselves in circles that make me dizzy.
TC27
Hi TC27Correct! The antitrinitarian method takes proof text to support their doctrine while denying the whole of scriptures!
It seems like they use “white out” for their bibles.
Blessings WJ
Quote (Cindy @ July 09 2009,13:15) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,09:11) Quote (Cindy @ July 09 2009,13:08) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,08:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2009,12:15) Hi TC,
You can offer all the verses you want but no anointed servant of God has taught trinity
so why do you?
Nick,Do they actually need to sit down and spell it out for the truth to be known? Have you ever thought that it was known to the people of the Bible and so it wasn't necessary to spell it out in the sky? The Bible gives plenty of evidence of the trinity and yet you choose otherwise. You forget that the Bible was written at a different time, and have you ever thought that maybe they knew God was trinity so it didn't need to be pounded into their heads? Most Christians are trinitarians, and only a small portion deny the deity of Christ. So it aparantly is obvious to our generation too. You are blind to it.
TC27
You are certainly right that most so called Christian believe in the trinity doctrine. That however does not make it right. The whole world is being deceived. Only hose who our Almihty God calls out of that system will know the truth. Yopu have ailed to ptrove to me that the trinity is written in the Bivle and read the post I hust made to nick where I explained that there is no trinity.
I have said before, that the Apostles did not believe in the trinity. It was a man made doctrine.
It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian in vefore A.D. 230
who first instituded it.Peace and Love Irene
Irene,Just because he was the first one to come up with a name for it does not mean it is not truth. The apostles never said they did not believe in a trinity God. So your standard has to go both ways.
TC27
You are funny, just that the Apostles did not deny it, they did not even heard of it, until that man brought it up.
Irene
Irene,You do not speak in a civil manner. It is the anti-trinitarians on here who are the most hostile. All I am doing is trying to speak what I believe. Now, you say they never heard of the trinity docrtine? Really, that is funny, because as far as I recall, Isaiah called Jesus, Mighty God. Paul called Jesus, Great God. Thomas also called Jesus, God. So if they never heard of it, then why do they seem to believe it and profess it?
TC27
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,09:03) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2009,12:59) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 10 2009,08:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2009,12:15) Hi TC,
You can offer all the verses you want but no anointed servant of God has taught trinity
so why do you?
Nick,Do they actually need to sit down and spell it out for the truth to be known? Have you ever thought that it was known to the people of the Bible and so it wasn't necessary to spell it out in the sky? The Bible gives plenty of evidence of the trinity and yet you choose otherwise. You forget that the Bible was written at a different time, and have you ever thought that maybe they knew God was trinity so it didn't need to be pounded into their heads? Most Christians are trinitarians, and only a small portion deny the deity of Christ. So it aparantly is obvious to our generation too. You are blind to it.
TC27
Hi TC,
So all the evidence for a human theory can now be obtained by reading between the lines?It is no longer necessary to find teachings in the mouth of God's anointed servants?
Is this approved of by the one who said to dig deep and lay our foundation on his teachings?
Following multitudes of other deceived men can only lead to their appointed pit.
Nick,I never said they didn't teach that Jesus was God. All I said was they do not actually say “trinity or three in one.” That does not mean they do not teach it. You just misunderstand what they say. All the verses I just gave you were proof of that. The prophet Isaiah taught it all over the place.
TC27
Hi TC,
Show me where one anointed teacher taught God is three in one in the bible.Suppositions are not enough.
God is a plain teacher.
Kids can hear
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