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Happy New Year! Or is it?
While man celebrates his New Year in the dead of winter. When the bears know it's best to hibernate because everything is dormant; man decides it NEW. What is New? Everything looKs dead!
God the creator of nature (besides us) has His #1 month between Mar-April. When everything is coming back to life! The trees are green, the bears wake from their long sleep, and the birds are singing. The weather is so nice that even most people are in a better mood.
NOW THAT'S NEW! DON'T YOU THINK!New Year’s festivities are not new. Ancient inscriptions indicate that they were held in Babylon as early as the third millennium B.C.E. The celebration, which was observed in mid-March, was crucial. “At that time the god Marduk decided the destiny of the country for the coming year,” says The World Book Encyclopedia.
The Babylonian new year celebration lasted 11 days and included sacrifices, processions, and fertility rites.For a time, the Romans too began their year in the month of March. But in 46 B.C.E., Emperor Julius Caesar decreed that it should begin on the first of January.
According to The World Book Encyclopedia, “The Roman ruler Julius Caesar established January 1 as New Year’s Day in 46 B.C. The Romans dedicated this day to Janus, the god of gates, doors, and beginnings. The month of January was named after Janus, who had two faces—one looking forward and the other looking backward.”—(1984), Vol. 14, p. 237.
On the first of January, people “gave themselves up to riotous excess,” says McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia, “and various kinds of heathen superstition.”
In general, little has changed.
Romans 13:13 counsels: “As in the daytime let us walk decently, not in revelries and drunken bouts, not in illicit intercourse and loose conduct, not in strife and jealousy.” (See also 1 Peter 4:3, 4; Galatians 5:19-21.)The Bible repeatedly tells worshipers of the true God to rejoice—and that for a number of reasons. (Deuteronomy 26:10, 11; Psalm 32:11; Proverbs 5:15-19; Ecclesiastes 3:22; 11:9) The Bible also acknowledges that food and drink often accompany rejoicing.—Psalm 104:15; Ecclesiastes 9:7a.
However, the apostle Paul wrote: “What fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Belial?” For good reason, Paul added: “Quit touching the unclean thing.”—2 Corinthians 6:14-17a.
New Years celebrations are rooted in pagan customs. False worship is unclean and detestable in the eyes of Jehovah God, and Christians reject practices that have such origins. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12; Ezekiel 22:3, 4)
Christians also realize that taking part in superstitious rituals does not guarantee happiness and prosperity—especially since participating in such festivities can result in God’s disfavor. (Ecclesiastes 9:11; Isaiah 65:11, 12)
Furthermore, the Bible admonishes Christians to be moderate and self-controlled in their conduct. (1 Timothy 3:2, 11)
All things to consider when looking at New Years.
david.
Quote (david @ Jan. 02 2006,01:25) New Year’s festivities are not new. Ancient inscriptions indicate that they were held in Babylon as early as the third millennium B.C.E. The celebration, which was observed in mid-March, was crucial. “At that time the god Marduk decided the destiny of the country for the coming year,” says The World Book Encyclopedia.
The Babylonian new year celebration lasted 11 days and included sacrifices, processions, and fertility rites.For a time, the Romans too began their year in the month of March. But in 46 B.C.E., Emperor Julius Caesar decreed that it should begin on the first of January.
According to The World Book Encyclopedia, “The Roman ruler Julius Caesar established January 1 as New Year’s Day in 46 B.C. The Romans dedicated this day to Janus, the god of gates, doors, and beginnings. The month of January was named after Janus, who had two faces—one looking forward and the other looking backward.”—(1984), Vol. 14, p. 237.
On the first of January, people “gave themselves up to riotous excess,” says McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia, “and various kinds of heathen superstition.”
In general, little has changed.
Romans 13:13 counsels: “As in the daytime let us walk decently, not in revelries and drunken bouts, not in illicit intercourse and loose conduct, not in strife and jealousy.” (See also 1 Peter 4:3, 4; Galatians 5:19-21.)The Bible repeatedly tells worshipers of the true God to rejoice—and that for a number of reasons. (Deuteronomy 26:10, 11; Psalm 32:11; Proverbs 5:15-19; Ecclesiastes 3:22; 11:9) The Bible also acknowledges that food and drink often accompany rejoicing.—Psalm 104:15; Ecclesiastes 9:7a.
However, the apostle Paul wrote: “What fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Belial?” For good reason, Paul added: “Quit touching the unclean thing.”—2 Corinthians 6:14-17a.
New Years celebrations are rooted in pagan customs. False worship is unclean and detestable in the eyes of Jehovah God, and Christians reject practices that have such origins. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12; Ezekiel 22:3, 4)
Christians also realize that taking part in superstitious rituals does not guarantee happiness and prosperity—especially since participating in such festivities can result in God’s disfavor. (Ecclesiastes 9:11; Isaiah 65:11, 12)
Furthermore, the Bible admonishes Christians to be moderate and self-controlled in their conduct. (1 Timothy 3:2, 11)
All things to consider when looking at New Years.
david.
David,
I didn't know all that. So that's why man has his New Year in the winter. Always a pagan holiday. What about Thanksgiving ?Jesus’ words regarding his followers:
“They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—John 17:16.SARAH J. HALE had a dream. It launched her on a thirty-six-year “crusade” before she gained victory. The dream? As she wrote in September of 1863—to see established a “yearly Thanksgiving as a permanent American National Festival which shall be celebrated on the last Thursday in November in every State of the Union.”
So what about thanksgiving? It depends how far you want to dig.
The national holiday/celebration known as thanksgiving is interesting in that at first, it seems to be a much more recent thing than the other holidays.
However, historians note that ‘harvest festivals’ were among the oldest known holidays. And there were several different harvest celebrations in existence at the time of the Pilgrims.
We do know that special celebrations over good harvests had occurred in several of the early American colonies. Hence, the 1621 celebration was not unprecedented.
Mrs. Hale and her supporters intended it to be both a day of patriotism and religion. She wrote in one article: “Then in every quarter of the globe our nationality would be recognized . . . every American . . . would thrill his soul with the purest feelings of patriotism and the deepest emotions of thankfulness for his religious enjoyments.” That this idea was held by others is noted in The American Book of Days: “It has frequently been the custom for clergymen to preach political sermons on Thanksgiving Day. In the early years of the nineteenth century their sermons were extremely partisan.”
In recent years, increasing emphasis on sports and commercialistic parades has led more and more people away from any attitude of thankfulness. And for a growing majority, having a special meal is the extent of “celebrating” Thanksgiving.Just before his death, Jesus commanded but one celebration. He required his followers to memorialize his death. This observance was made all the more outstanding by its being the only one.—Luke 22:19, 20.
The apostle Paul, in fact, became concerned about Jewish Christians who still were “scrupulously observing days and months and seasons and years.” He remarked: “I fear for you, that somehow I have toiled to no purpose respecting you.” (Gal. 4:10, 11) Why was Paul so concerned? Because, despite his hard work, these former Jews were clinging to religious observances that God no longer desired. They were missing the “spirit” of Christianity.
The early Christians were admonished to apply the principle found at Ephesians 5:20. In the name of Jesus Christ, they were to ‘give thanks always for all things to their God and Father.’ Yes, an attitude of constant appreciation for God’s provisions and protection was emphasized repeatedly. The words “thanks” and “thanksgiving” are used over forty times in the Christian Greek Scriptures.
On the contrary, the idea of a single day of thanks undoubtedly would have reminded the early Christians of the pagan Romans, who held an annual thanksgiving celebration in December. A writer of the second century noted: “We [Christians] are accused of a lower sacrilege, because we do not celebrate along with you the holidays of the Cæsars in a manner forbidden alike by modesty, decency, and purity.”
What, then, is the modern-day Christian likely to conclude as he views this national holiday? Looking at many of the present practices, he may be reminded of Second Corinthians 6:14, where we read: “Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?”
Naturally, many dedicated Christians will not be working secularly on that day. Some may choose to take advantage of this opportunity to enjoy fellowship with family and friends. Yet, what “spirit” will a Christian manifest? It is true that God created turkeys and other foods, so these are not in themselves objectionable. But undoubtedly one who is a true Christian will want to be careful not to stumble others.
Consider what the apostle Paul says, as recorded in First Corinthians, chapter ten. He reasons that Christians should wisely avoid eating before others a perfectly acceptable food if doing so would stumble them.Jesus' true followers would be different and distinct from the world and it's worldly nationalistic ways.
“They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—John 17:16.
What this means Kenrch, judge for yourself.david
Quote (david @ Jan. 03 2006,01:00) Jesus’ words regarding his followers:
“They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—John 17:16.SARAH J. HALE had a dream. It launched her on a thirty-six-year “crusade” before she gained victory. The dream? As she wrote in September of 1863—to see established a “yearly Thanksgiving as a permanent American National Festival which shall be celebrated on the last Thursday in November in every State of the Union.”
So what about thanksgiving? It depends how far you want to dig.
The national holiday/celebration known as thanksgiving is interesting in that at first, it seems to be a much more recent thing than the other holidays.
However, historians note that ‘harvest festivals’ were among the oldest known holidays. And there were several different harvest celebrations in existence at the time of the Pilgrims.
We do know that special celebrations over good harvests had occurred in several of the early American colonies. Hence, the 1621 celebration was not unprecedented.
Mrs. Hale and her supporters intended it to be both a day of patriotism and religion. She wrote in one article: “Then in every quarter of the globe our nationality would be recognized . . . every American . . . would thrill his soul with the purest feelings of patriotism and the deepest emotions of thankfulness for his religious enjoyments.” That this idea was held by others is noted in The American Book of Days: “It has frequently been the custom for clergymen to preach political sermons on Thanksgiving Day. In the early years of the nineteenth century their sermons were extremely partisan.”
In recent years, increasing emphasis on sports and commercialistic parades has led more and more people away from any attitude of thankfulness. And for a growing majority, having a special meal is the extent of “celebrating” Thanksgiving.Just before his death, Jesus commanded but one celebration. He required his followers to memorialize his death. This observance was made all the more outstanding by its being the only one.—Luke 22:19, 20.
The apostle Paul, in fact, became concerned about Jewish Christians who still were “scrupulously observing days and months and seasons and years.” He remarked: “I fear for you, that somehow I have toiled to no purpose respecting you.” (Gal. 4:10, 11) Why was Paul so concerned? Because, despite his hard work, these former Jews were clinging to religious observances that God no longer desired. They were missing the “spirit” of Christianity.
The early Christians were admonished to apply the principle found at Ephesians 5:20. In the name of Jesus Christ, they were to ‘give thanks always for all things to their God and Father.’ Yes, an attitude of constant appreciation for God’s provisions and protection was emphasized repeatedly. The words “thanks” and “thanksgiving” are used over forty times in the Christian Greek Scriptures.
On the contrary, the idea of a single day of thanks undoubtedly would have reminded the early Christians of the pagan Romans, who held an annual thanksgiving celebration in December. A writer of the second century noted: “We [Christians] are accused of a lower sacrilege, because we do not celebrate along with you the holidays of the Cæsars in a manner forbidden alike by modesty, decency, and purity.”
What, then, is the modern-day Christian likely to conclude as he views this national holiday? Looking at many of the present practices, he may be reminded of Second Corinthians 6:14, where we read: “Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?”
Naturally, many dedicated Christians will not be working secularly on that day. Some may choose to take advantage of this opportunity to enjoy fellowship with family and friends. Yet, what “spirit” will a Christian manifest? It is true that God created turkeys and other foods, so these are not in themselves objectionable. But undoubtedly one who is a true Christian will want to be careful not to stumble others.
Consider what the apostle Paul says, as recorded in First Corinthians, chapter ten. He reasons that Christians should wisely avoid eating before others a perfectly acceptable food if doing so would stumble them.Jesus' true followers would be different and distinct from the world and it's worldly nationalistic ways.
“They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—John 17:16.
What this means Kenrch, judge for yourself.david
David,What “spirit” do we manifest on Thanksgiving? LOVE! Jesus ate supper with the sinners, Matt 9:10-13; Luke 7:33-36.
Unlike the pagan holidays at Thanksgiving we give thanks to our Father of course I give thanks everyday. But I don't gather with my family (mother, father, grandpa etc.) everyday. This is a family (God's plan) gathering in love and Thanksgiving. I see nothing wrong with this day!
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.
There is nothing wrong with praying, if done out of a clean heart.
What I'm saying is this: The world in general celebrates New Years one way–a very distinct way. The customs and attitudes associated with most New Years celebrations must give one pause. And the place that New Year celebrations were born must also make one question. There are many pagans and Satanists who can also say: “This New Year's I was gathered with other believers as we prayed into the new year.” Evil? The thing is, they may actually understand better why they and the world with them, are celebrating that day.
The world has a certain spirit. True Christians must have a different spirit. They must be no part of the world or it's ways. They must be separate from the thinking and influences of the world. What do MOST PEOPLE picture in their minds when they think of New Years? And how would Jesus fit into that picture?
ye know not what manner of spirit you are.
Speaking of spirits. David, you are a kind man with a gentle nature. I do believe that you will come to the full knowledge of truth. I enjoy reading your posts. Even the ones I do not agree with. The mouth reveals what is in the heart. You love God, and people.
Paul was upset with Jewish believers because they wanted to go back under the law. Part of the law was celebrating holidays that had been ordained by God in the O.T.
He also said everything is legal, but not profitable to me. Does that mean that Christians should celebate New Years eve the way the world does? God forbid. But if one wishes to gather with family and friends to celebrate there is no harm in it. We know it is a pagan holiday, just as Christmas is a pagan holiday. I do not celebrate christmas as the birth of my savior. I did go on holiday to visit with my son and his wife. For me it is a time to celebrate my relationship with those that I love. God knows the heart. Don't get so hung up on holiday, sabbaths, etc. Under the new covenant they are fulfilled in Jesus the Christ. If we keep his commandments we keep the whole law.
Our Lord did not die for us to keep types and shadows of the heavenly. That was done, and done away with. The real deal is in heaven. The earth is a type of the heavenly. There is a alter in heaven. Jesus died to cleanse the heavenly temple so that we sinners can approach God were he resides.
Dont sweat the small stuff. In the grand scheme here on earth expect for our salvation, its all small stuff.
Hi Bastain. I agree with what you say. Except for these words:
Quote David, you are a kind man with a gentle nature.
I find this forum has at times brought out the worst in me.I agree that New Years isn't quite like Christmas, or Halloween. It just bothers me when people try to defend pagan practices and tie a bow around it and call it good. Satan can get dressed up too and call himself an angel of light. But he ain't no angel.
1 Thess 5:21: “Make sure of all things.”
I know many say: “Well I'll celebrate it my way. I won't do those things.”
But why? For example: Why celebrate halloween? You can say: 'Well, it's just for fun. I don't take part in the darker side of it.' But why get involved at all?
There is nothing wrong with celebrating the gift of life or giving thanks for this gift.But how is New Year's viewed by most? For most, what is it? Where did it come from? Has it really changed?
The Bible admonishes Christians to “walk decently, not in revelries and drunken bouts.” (Romans 13:12-14; Galatians 5:19-21; 1 Peter 4:3)
Paul’s reference to “revelries and drunken bouts” may have included those that took place during New Year’s festivities, since these were popular in Rome during the first century. Since New Year’s festivities are often characterized by the very excesses that the Bible condemns, Christians should consider what that means. This does not mean rejecting fun. On the contrary, they know that the Bible repeatedly tells worshipers of the true God to rejoice—and that for a number of reasons. (Deuteronomy 26:10, 11; Psalm 32:11; Proverbs 5:15-19; Ecclesiastes 3:22; 11:9) The Bible also acknowledges that food and drink often accompany rejoicing.—Psalm 104:15; Ecclesiastes 9:7a.The apostle Paul wrote: “What fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Belial?” For good reason, Paul added: “Quit touching the unclean thing.”—2 Corinthians 6:14-17a.
As eye-catching and appealing to the senses as New Year’s festivities may be, the Bible tells us to “quit touching the unclean thing” and to “cleanse ourselves of EVERY defilement of flesh and spirit.” To those who comply, Jehovah extends the heartwarming guarantee: “I will take you in. . . . I shall be a father to you, and you will be sons and daughters to me.” (2 Corinthians 6:17b–7:1)
Jesus never said it would be easy being his follower. In fact, he said quite the opposite.
david.
Ask yourself: Why did the early Christians not take part?
Aleksander Krawczuk, professor of history and former minister of culture in Poland, wrote an article for Polityka, a weekly magazine in that country. After discussing the historical background of New Year’s celebrations, he stated:
“Were ancient Romans acquainted with New Year’s celebrations? There can be no doubt, especially when one considers imperial Rome. . . . Such gaieties were occasions of great joy and laxity. This in turn influenced the attitude ancient Christians had toward celebrating the official New Year. They considered the custom to be scandalous and thoroughly pagan, alien in form and spirit to the worshipers of enlightened religion. After all, sacrifices to deities were offered. For this reason the church categorically forbade its worshipers to have any part in New Year’s celebrations, especially in the gaieties.”
“Despite the fall of its empire, Rome slowly but steadily forced first Western civilization and finally the whole world to accept its tradition and will regarding both calendar dates. Taking January 1 as the beginning of the new year, however, meant a triumph for a tradition of parties, feasts, wedding festivities, gift-giving, and wishes, and this in spite of the intense aversion of ancient Christians.”
Having established that New Year’s celebrations are of pagan origin, how does Professor Krawczuk feel about Christians’ sharing in these festivities? His own wish for Christians:
“That [Christians] should morally be in a position to repeat the words of their fellow believers of antiquity. When scoffed at by pagans who said: ‘What kind of religion is that, without splendid temples containing images and statues, without precious garments or liturgical vessels?’ the early Christians answered: ‘It is true that we are poor. But our temples are hearts full of love for God and neighbor; our liturgical garments are modesty, industriousness, submissiveness and humility; and the vessels are our good deeds.’”
Pointedly, the Bible states at 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 that Christians should “not harness [them]selves in an uneven team with unbelievers; how can uprightness and law-breaking be partners, or what can light and darkness have in common? How can Christ come to an agreement with Beliar and what sharing can there be between a believer and an unbeliever? The temple of God cannot compromise with false gods, and that is what we are—the temple of the living God. . . . ‘Get away from them, purify yourselves,’ says the Lord. ‘Do not touch anything unclean.’”—The New Jerusalem Bible, a Catholic translation.
david
Were the early Christians wrong? Or, is the thinking of some wrong today?
The 1966 World Book Encyclopedia, Volume 14, page 237, reports:
“In ancient Rome, the first day of the year was given over to honoring Janus, the god of gates and doors and of beginnings and endings. . . . New Year’s Day became a holy day in the Christian Church in A.D. 487, when it was declared the Feast of the Circumcision. At first, parties were not allowed on this day because the pagans had followed that custom. This was gradually changed and celebrations could again be held.”So, the early Christians didn't even have parties or gather together on that day, so as not to be associated with what the pagans were doing, or perhaps, so as not to stumble fellow believers. For whatever reason, the early Christians DID NOT CELEBRATE IT purposefully and with reason.
Of course, that view changed, as did the view on most everything with the fortold apostasy. This is why it's necessary to look at the early Christians as our examples. We know they had it right. After the apostasy, who knows who to believe.
The dies natalis solis invicti (birthday of the invicible sun) was given a better name: Christmas.
Similarly, the New Years celebrations were given a so called Christian appearance by the fallen away Christians who called it the Feast of the Circumcision. This way, so called Christians wouldn't be left out of the celebrating. But this was wrong. New Years is a pagan celebration. It had it's beginnings in paganism. Today, for the most part, it resides in peoples minds as a day of parties and drinking.For the early Christians, true Christians, IT WAS WRONG to celebrate on that day, because the pagans were celebrating that day. For a Christian today who holds that day as special, do you think that the early Christians were wrong in their beliefs?
Bastain, after doing a little more research, it seems the early Christians did “sweat the small stuff,” if paganism can be called “small,” that is.
david.
David,
I understand your point. Do you understand mine? I said that Christians should not celebrate New years the way the world does. I cannot talk for all christians only for myself. I do not drink any other day of the year, why would I drink on New years eve? That is my choice. Jesus drank fermented wine, not grape juice. He said “the son of man came eating and drinking” they accussed the Lord of being a wind bibber ( a drunk ) nice,
He also ate with sinners. If you do not associated with sinners, how will they get saved? We are not to partake in sin with them. Haven't you ever thought what a bawdy crowd Jesus associated with. Do you think men then weren't vulgur and crude? Do you suppose prostitutes acted more like ladies? C'mon let's be adults here.
I'm sure Jesus heard many things that made him blush. I am also positive he didn't join in. That is love my friend. If the world makes you sick imagine what it did to him. Yet, he ate with them.Charity sufferth long and is kind chairy envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth:
Jesus was love in action. Stop judging, only God knows the heart of a man. You would have misjudged our lord and saviour.
If the early Christians who lived before the apostasy didn't even have parties on that particular day, (The 1966 World Book Encyclopedia, Vol 14, p 237) what is the likely hood that they attended the parties held in honor of paganism with the pagans?
ROMANS 1:28-32
“And just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless. Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.”Were the early Christians wrong Bastain? Do you know something they don't?
David,
I am not a Jehovah witness. Again I understand were you are coming from. I get it, believe me. Did you even read my last post, or do you just feel the need to argue with someone?
I am aware that your religion is against celebrations of anykind, that is your prerogative. My objection is not with your objection about celebrating, and if you had read my reply you would have known that.
Quote I am aware that your religion is against celebrations of anykind,
Well, that's just wrong. We celebrate anniversaries or anything special that isn't pagan or mixed in with the worldly spirit. We certainly memorialize the Lord's death, as he commanded.I think I may have taken your sentence wrongly:
Quote I said that Christians should not celebrate New years the way the world does.
I took this to mean that you said they should or could celebrate it, just not the way or in the manner the world does. Maybe, you actually meant that Christians should not celebrate it at all, as the world does celebrate it.Anyway, I did read your post, about three times before I responded. Maybe the above sentence and all your talk about Jesus associating with sinners made me believe that you thought because of that–that being around people who were practicing celebrations rooted in paganism and revelry was ok as long as you didn't get involved somehow.
And then you somehow connected Jesus spending time with sinners and me saying that celebrating New Years was wrong and came up with the idea that I was judging Jesus.
What was I to think?Quote My objection is not with your objection about celebrating, Then perhaps you could tell me what your “objection” is, perhaps using different words.
David,
Maybe there has been a misunderstanding on both our parts. I thought you were judging others. Apart from celebrations of any kind. For associating with non believers. I am extremely fatigued this evening so I am going to call it a night. I like message boards, but sometimes it does get confusing doesn't it?
good night David be well, Bastian
What is NEW about man's “New” year? It is in the DEAD of winter!
I believe God's calender has the New Year in the spring when bears
come out of hibernation. Birds are making nest. Vegetation comes back to LIFE!In God's NEW YEAR things are NEW
Quote 2 weeks of summer …. go to BBQs, and swim at a beach.
–T8, another thread, on Christmas.It's not the DEAD of winter for everyone, apparently.
All I know is that if we don't align everything we do, think and feel with ancient laws handed down via the traditions of men and angels then we are all going to be thrown into a lake of burning fire.
And seriously who could blame the Most High God of Love for doing so. These things seem very reasonable and sensible to me too.
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