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Quote (ftk @ Oct. 24 2011,21:27) theodore: You said…. Quote Greetings ftk ….. In the garden the government consisted of the instructions of what not to do ….. and that was not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil …. This was the first transgression of the law and subsequent judgement…. The man was given dominion over the birds of the air,the fish in the sea and the beasts of the forest… Do not confuse dominion with license to abuse,torture and destroy…. God set in place laws that govern nature and the man is not to come in conflict with those laws…He is to live harmoniously with nature ….. True liberty and freedom ( not license) has boundaries because of the nature of man …. He is in enmity with God… We all have the right to look at Gods words and choose good or evil. God said…. I lay before you good and evil, but choose good…!
When you say God more or less set up a government in the garden I see it just the opposite. God gave man ultimate freedom to go and do whatever he willed to do. You say God established a law or government by commanding Adam not to “eat” or partake of the knowledge of good and evil! I see it like if I was to tell my grand child,…if you touch that hot stove….this is what will happen….you will be burned and it will hurt! Action and re-action. Stimulus and response. Yet if I established a set “law” there is a set punishment for breaking the law. Then to her I would say,….If you touch the hot stove…you will be burned and I will kick you out of my house forever. You and all the members in your family, all humanity, everywhere, will be doomed to sin and death because you made this choice. You will be responsible for all time for making man sinful and causing enmity between God and his creation, mankind. You are free to choose, evil but the choice you make will bind everybody, forever!! It can never be reversed or corrected until someone perfect (that doesn't believe in evil, only good) comes and dies for not doing anything wrong! In other words in a law there is a command with a punishment for disregarding the command. Not a stimulus and response. Beware there is hot and cold. It was a fact stated by God…oh, by the way,…of all the trees or avenues of information in the garden, if you eat, accept, buy into the information that says there is not only good but evil also, what will happen from that choice is you will eventually die because you are choosing or giving allegiance to another god/evil/destruction/death!!
We break laws of nature all the time. We supersede the the law of gravity constantly by flying airplanes. The law of “lift” overcomes the “law” of gravity.
Believe anything you “choose” to believe on your pathway to God/truth! That is the right of man! The most important scriptures to believe IMO, are ….to truly find God one must….believe that he is….and….believe that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him! His reward is absolute life with no death. That and “love” your neighbor as yourself. The reason love is all you need, is that, under the “law” of sowing and reaping if you sow love you reap a love harvest in life. If you continue to believe in “evil” and sow words/fruit of death and destruction that is the crop you will harvest. You plant today and everyday and reap that which you plant at harvest time. Yet you are free to sow and reap whatever you choose to experience in life. TK
Greetings ftk …. Sin is the transgression of the law ( the breaking thereof)…. If we sin by vitue of our freedom to choose it is because of our very nature which is at enmity with God … There was consequence in the garden, God said that” If you eat of the tree you will surely die” …sounds to me like a consequence for the breaking of the law or in this case an instruction from the eternal…In addition flight in its truest definition is governed by the laws of physics where the laws of nature and the breaking there of have consequences to life ….. Man should not alter the eco system, Man should not interupt the birth cycle(abortion,cloning and genetic enginee ring to name a few) the laws of nature is what governs Gods creation ….. The laws of physics and science are the continuation of his creation and as we all can see, Man has managed by virtue of his free will to progress to a point where he is capable of destroying all life within the creation…. It is through Gods love and mercy for mankind,he will intervene and not allow this to happen…When Jesus returns he will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords and to his Government there will be no end….theodore: I understand fully what you are saying! I was there for years believing those same things. Yet as I continued to study and at the same time promised God that I will follow Jesus first and then any or all scriptures or doctrines must align with Jesus or be re-aligned until they do. Ya that's right there is much miss-translation in the Bible IMO.
Once I was committed to God by oath I was in no way going to refuse to see. There are several scriptures spoken by Jesus himself that say the Law and the Prophets(both)were until John(the Baptist) and since then the Kingdom of God(inside each person) is preached….Luke16:16….The Prophets and the Law prophesied until John(the Baptist)….Matt.11:13…..All things written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms(concerning Jesus) were fulfilled…..!
At that point all my end time teachings and many of my previous doctrinal beliefs had to be altered, changed, re-interpreted or whatever to fit what Jesus himself said. There was also….Mark1:15….the time is fulfilled, the Kingdom of God is here…..and Matt.3:2….change your thinking, the Kingdom of God is at hand(or in reach)…… The Kingdom of God has been here since Jesus came!!!
The very lords prayer was that the Kingdom had come and thy will was being done on earth as (at the same time as) it is done in Heaven!
Luke18:31….Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished(completed)…..
Speaking to his disciples Jesus said,….Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away till all be fulfilled….Luke 21:31&32….!
Time is fulfilled, the Kingdom of God is here…Mark1:14&15…!
Luke 22:15-18….With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I say unto you I WILL NOT ANY MORE EAT THEREOF, UNTIL IT SHALL BE FULFILLED IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD…..and he took the cup and gave thanks, and said, I WILL NOT DRINK OF THE FRUIT OF THE VINE, UNTIL THE KINGDOM OF GOD SHALL COME….
then at Luke 24:42-44….(after resurrection)…they gave him a piece of broiled fish and of an honeycomb…and he took it and did eat before them…Acts 10:41… even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead…
I can go on to verify every doctrine I have because they are from Jesus not man. There is much I still don't know but I just keep going and every now and then a thought/doctrine will pop up in my mind to search out. There are no laws or rules or judgments with condemnations. Love is not a law but it is a great seed to sow for a wonderful life. Sin was removed by one sacrifice forever, thats the truth, the law was fulfilled by Jesus, the Kingdom is here now, inside. Where there is no law there is no transgression/sin. All I can do is point to the truth. Its up to man to find his own. IMO, TK
Quote (ftk @ Oct. 25 2011,08:31) theodore: I understand fully what you are saying! I was there for years believing those same things. Yet as I continued to study and at the same time promised God that I will follow Jesus first and then any or all scriptures or doctrines must align with Jesus or be re-aligned until they do. Ya that's right there is much miss-translation in the Bible IMO. Once I was committed to God by oath I was in no way going to refuse to see. There are several scriptures spoken by Jesus himself that say the Law and the Prophets(both)were until John(the Baptist) and since then the Kingdom of God(inside each person) is preached….Luke16:16….The Prophets and the Law prophesied until John(the Baptist)….Matt.11:13…..All things written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms(concerning Jesus) were fulfilled…..!
At that point all my end time teachings and many of my previous doctrinal beliefs had to be altered, changed, re-interpreted or whatever to fit what Jesus himself said. There was also….Mark1:15….the time is fulfilled, the Kingdom of God is here…..and Matt.3:2….change your thinking, the Kingdom of God is at hand(or in reach)…… The Kingdom of God has been here since Jesus came!!!
The very lords prayer was that the Kingdom had come and thy will was being done on earth as (at the same time as) it is done in Heaven!
Luke18:31….Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished(completed)…..
Speaking to his disciples Jesus said,….Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away till all be fulfilled….Luke 21:31&32….!
Time is fulfilled, the Kingdom of God is here…Mark1:14&15…!
Luke 22:15-18….With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I say unto you I WILL NOT ANY MORE EAT THEREOF, UNTIL IT SHALL BE FULFILLED IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD…..and he took the cup and gave thanks, and said, I WILL NOT DRINK OF THE FRUIT OF THE VINE, UNTIL THE KINGDOM OF GOD SHALL COME….
then at Luke 24:42-44….(after resurrection)…they gave him a piece of broiled fish and of an honeycomb…and he took it and did eat before them…Acts 10:41… even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead…
I can go on to verify every doctrine I have because they are from Jesus not man. There is much I still don't know but I just keep going and every now and then a thought/doctrine will pop up in my mind to search out. There are no laws or rules or judgments with condemnations. Love is not a law but it is a great seed to sow for a wonderful life. Sin was removed by one sacrifice forever, thats the truth, the law was fulfilled by Jesus, the Kingdom is here now, inside. Where there is no law there is no transgression/sin. All I can do is point to the truth. Its up to man to find his own. IMO, TK
Thanks TK ….. I admire you conviction and you have convinced me to revisit the scriptures that speak to the return of the Messiah and the kingdom he will preside over…
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