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Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 10 2012,21:07) Yes Ed.but how can we make them see this, and convince them,that this is the case. wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,Without them taking the bible seriously, it presents great difficulty.
You do know that it is against 'sharia law' to preach “Christ”
publishable by death(beheading of course). (Rev.20:4)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2012,22:43) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 10 2012,21:07) Yes Ed.but how can we make them see this, and convince them,that this is the case. wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,Without them taking the bible seriously, it presents great difficulty.
You do know that it is against 'sharia law' to preach “Christ”
publishable by death(beheading of course). (Rev.20:4)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
EdJ.And yet they say that isa is born by the will of God??
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 10 2012,15:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 10 2012,14:16) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 09 2012,16:31) B,tharta. quote.
Wrong the Quran calls Jesus a Spirit proceeding from God and a Word from Him.unquote.If so then why are the prayers mostly focused on mohamad,and not on Jesus?(mohamad darsulallah).
If there is a day of resurrection; why are they taught that the martyrs are in heaven with their virgins?
I have also noticed that you also are ignoring some of the old testament. You just believe what you want to believe.
wakeup.
I pray to God directly so what are you talking about?Martyrs and virgins are a teaching outside the Quran, please do research first and then critisize you can easily find what is in the Quran by doin a search:
http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php
This way you will know what you are talking about.
God Bless!
B,tharta.I have the qur'an,and have read it.
wakeup.
Well some of the things you wrote show you haven't read it thoroughlyQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2012,22:43) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 10 2012,21:07) Yes Ed.but how can we make them see this, and convince them,that this is the case. wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,Without them taking the bible seriously, it presents great difficulty.
You do know that it is against 'sharia law' to preach “Christ”
publishable by death(beheading of course). (Rev.20:4)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
EDThe Quran itself preaches about Christ so you are seriously confused.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 10 2012,23:20) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2012,22:43) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 10 2012,21:07) Yes Ed.but how can we make them see this, and convince them,that this is the case. wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,Without them taking the bible seriously, it presents great difficulty.
You do know that it is against 'sharia law' to preach “Christ”
publishable by death(beheading of course). (Rev.20:4)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
EdJ.And yet they say that isa is born by the will of God??
wakeup.
WakeupI am glad to communicate with you as you seem to be sincere in our dialogue but I try not to communicate too much with ED because he simply makes things up and if you correct him on something with proof he will wait for a time and reassert the same wrong information on purpose.
I keep forgiving him over and over but I don't think he can help himself.
Quote (2besee @ Nov. 10 2012,16:12) Great link Bod thanks just what I was looking for!
You're welcome this way there will be no dispute whether something is in the Quran or notQuote (Wakeup @ Nov. 10 2012,19:58) Hell in the qur'an is about fire, and water boiling,and screaming.
Heaven is just a paradise with nice fruit trees and
and fresh waters.This is a very strange thing about the qur'an.
It mentionens the kingdom,but yet it is not clarifying it,its just words of confusion.It mentions the apostles and yet it is not claryfying it.
It mentions isa(jesus) and yet not claryfying it.
Its just words upon words of emptiness.The whole book is just repetitiveness.
Its empty and void.Ibrahim(abrham) was a muslem meaning submission; to allah.
and yet that word allah did not exist back then.
Jesus said ;*This gospel of the kingdom* is to be preached in all the earth for a witness.THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM IS NOT THE QUR'AN.
Lets leave it to that.wakeup.
GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM is mentioned in the NT 5 times and only in Mark and Matthew, Paul never mentions it at all.The Gospel of The Kingdom is all the Quran is about which is the Glory of God, there is no book that praises God as much as the Quran every chapter is full of praise it is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God (Mentioned 25 times in 3 of the 4 Gospels)
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 10 2012,21:07) Yes Ed.but how can we make them see this, and convince them,that this is the case. wakeup.
Tverses ED has given were not about Islam they were about fellow Christians because some Jewish Christians were teaching the gentiles to Follow the laws of Moses. There is no scripture anywhere that claims Satan can imitate “Gabriel” and once you go down that road anyone can claim that anytime Gabriel came to someone it was really Satan. In-fact Paul claimed to have seen Jesus on the road to Damascus has never met Jesus so he would not know what Jesus looked like or sounded like and in that story there are a few versions but one things for sure Paul was “evil” and was transformed to an angel of lightQuote (2besee @ Nov. 10 2012,22:33) Qurans eternal hell.
(From using the keyword search),Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #56)If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #93)They (his dupes) will have their dwelling in hell, and from it they will find no way of escape.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #121)Except the way of hell, to dwell therein for ever. And this to Allah is easy.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #169)On the Day when heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the fire of hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, their flanks, and their backs.- “This is the (treasure) which ye buried for yourselves: taste ye, then, the (treasures) ye buried!”
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #35)Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of hell: Therein shall they dwell: Sufficient is it for them: for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment,-
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #68)In front of such a one is hell, and he is given, for drink, boiling fetid water.
( سورة إبراهيم , Ibrahim, Chapter #14, Verse #16)If any do wish for the transitory things (of this life), We readily grant them – such things as We will, to such person as We will: in the end have We provided hell for them: they will burn therein, disgraced and rejected.
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #18)It is he whom Allah guides, that is on true Guidance; but he whom He leaves astray – for such wilt thou find no protector besides Him. On the Day of Judgment We shall gather, them together, prone on their faces, blind, dumb, and deaf: their abode will be hell: every time it shows abatement, We shall increase from them the fierceness of the Fire.
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #97)But those who reject (Allah) – for them will be the Fire of hell: No term shall be determined for them, so they should die, nor shall its Penalty be lightened for them. Thus do We reward every ungrateful one! Therein will they cry aloud (for assistance): “Our Lord! Bring us out: we shall work righteousness, not the (deeds) we used to do!” – “Did We not give you long enough life so that he that would should receive admonition? and (moreover) the warner came to you. So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds): for the wrong-doers there is no helper.”
( سورة فاطر , Fatir, Chapter #35, Verse #36-37)Those in the Fire will say to the Keepers of hell: “Pray to your Lord to lighten us the Penalty for a day (at least)!”
( سورة غافر , Ghafir, Chapter #40, Verse #49)Those who reject the Book and the (revelations) with which We sent our messengers: but soon shall they know,- When the yokes (shall be) round their necks, and the chains; they shall be dragged along – In the boiling fetid fluid: then in the Fire shall they be burned; And burning in hell-Fire.
( سورة غافر , Ghafir, Chapter #40, Verse #71-72)“Unless I proclaim what I receive from Allah and His Messages: for any that disobey Allah and His Messenger,- for them is hell: they shall dwell therein for ever.”
( سورة الجن , Al-Jinn, Chapter #72, Verse #23)
Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Matthew 13:50
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Mark 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenchedMark 9:48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;Hell is real!
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2012,22:43) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 10 2012,21:07) Yes Ed.but how can we make them see this, and convince them,that this is the case. wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,Without them taking the bible seriously, it presents great difficulty.
You do know that it is against 'sharia law' to preach “Christ”
publishable by death(beheading of course). (Rev.20:4)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
EdJ.Can you quote that bit?
wakeup.
bod
Quote O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not “Trinity”: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)when was this verse added to the Koran
I mean by whom and in wath year Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2012,14:37) Quote (2besee @ Nov. 10 2012,22:33) Qurans eternal hell.
(From using the keyword search),Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #56)If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #93)They (his dupes) will have their dwelling in hell, and from it they will find no way of escape.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #121)Except the way of hell, to dwell therein for ever. And this to Allah is easy.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #169)On the Day when heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the fire of hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, their flanks, and their backs.- “This is the (treasure) which ye buried for yourselves: taste ye, then, the (treasures) ye buried!”
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #35)Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of hell: Therein shall they dwell: Sufficient is it for them: for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment,-
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #68)In front of such a one is hell, and he is given, for drink, boiling fetid water.
( سورة إبراهيم , Ibrahim, Chapter #14, Verse #16)If any do wish for the transitory things (of this life), We readily grant them – such things as We will, to such person as We will: in the end have We provided hell for them: they will burn therein, disgraced and rejected.
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #18)It is he whom Allah guides, that is on true Guidance; but he whom He leaves astray – for such wilt thou find no protector besides Him. On the Day of Judgment We shall gather, them together, prone on their faces, blind, dumb, and deaf: their abode will be hell: every time it shows abatement, We shall increase from them the fierceness of the Fire.
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #97)But those who reject (Allah) – for them will be the Fire of hell: No term shall be determined for them, so they should die, nor shall its Penalty be lightened for them. Thus do We reward every ungrateful one! Therein will they cry aloud (for assistance): “Our Lord! Bring us out: we shall work righteousness, not the (deeds) we used to do!” – “Did We not give you long enough life so that he that would should receive admonition? and (moreover) the warner came to you. So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds): for the wrong-doers there is no helper.”
( سورة فاطر , Fatir, Chapter #35, Verse #36-37)Those in the Fire will say to the Keepers of hell: “Pray to your Lord to lighten us the Penalty for a day (at least)!”
( سورة غافر , Ghafir, Chapter #40, Verse #49)Those who reject the Book and the (revelations) with which We sent our messengers: but soon shall they know,- When the yokes (shall be) round their necks, and the chains; they shall be dragged along – In the boiling fetid fluid: then in the Fire shall they be burned; And burning in hell-Fire.
( سورة غافر , Ghafir, Chapter #40, Verse #71-72)“Unless I proclaim what I receive from Allah and His Messages: for any that disobey Allah and His Messenger,- for them is hell: they shall dwell therein for ever.”
( سورة الجن , Al-Jinn, Chapter #72, Verse #23)
Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Matthew 13:50
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Mark 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenchedMark 9:48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;Hell is real!
Bod, you are misunderstanding Jesus.
Let's look at those verses which you gave and some others too, okay.Mark 9,
“And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.
And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.”Yes, and then Jesus goes on to explain:
Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather FEAR HIM WHO CAN DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY in hell.
DESTROY.
Destroy means to Destroy, it means to finish, YET, the Quran says that the Body and Soul is NOT destroyed but that it continues on and is continually burnt alive.This is not what the Bible says.
This is a lie which obviously originated with the original liar, the Devil. Jesus called the Devil the deceiver of the whole world and the murderer from the beginning and the liar who has no truth in Him, and it is Him who said that they would not die:Genesis 3:1-4
'Now the SERPENT was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God say, `You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?”
And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden;
but God said, `You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, LEST YOU DIE.'”
But the serpent said to the woman, “YOU WILL NOT DIE. 'And then God said to Adam 'In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”So, due to disobedience, they died and we all die.
But Jesus came as the second Adam to give eternal life to those who were given life, and He spoke the TRUTH!Matthew 13
,So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.”
For how long will they weep and gnash their teeth and what does weeping and gnashing the teeth mean. It means to weep with regret and to gnash the teeth in frustration. And Jesus here is speaking about the end day when people will be eternally destroyed.
Look:
“Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH, THE LAKE OF FIRE;
and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15.Romans 6:23 'For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord'.
SECOND DEATH.
Death means death. It does not mean LIFE.2Peter which you quoted as evidence of 'eternal conscious torment' doesn't work in your favor because in context it shows that the end result is destruction!
“For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment;
if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven other persons, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomor'rah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example to those who were to be ungodly;
and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the licentiousness of the wicked (for by what that righteous man saw and heard as he lived among them, he was vexed in his righteous soul day after day with their lawless deeds),
then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trial, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.Kept in punishment until the day of JUDGMENT, this is not for eternity.
John 3:16
'For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not PERISH but have eternal life.'John 4:1
“Whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”John 10:28
“And I give eternal life to them, and they will never PERISH; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.”Rom 6:23
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”James 5:20
'Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from DEATH.'James 2:26
For AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, so faith without works is dead also.Rev. 20:14
“Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the SECOND DEATH, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”And Matthew 7:13
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”The free GIFT from God is eternal life. A gift is a gift, it is not a gift which is given to all. To the others, they are thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death, and the punishment is eternal, which is eternal DEATH.
When the Bible mentions 'everlasting punishment' it is exactly as it means in light of the other scriptures. It is the opposite of the gift of eternal life, and it (annihilation) is eternal in its consequences.The EFFECTS of the punishment (eternal annihilation) are everlasting. There is no hope for them, they are gone. And for those who have loved ones, that is sad enough if they chose not to accept God's gift of eternal life.
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2012,13:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2012,12:37) Hell is real!
But not the phoney god of the quran.
There is only ONE GOD. You believe in many and in that is your greatest sinQuote (2besee @ Nov. 12 2012,08:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2012,14:37) Quote (2besee @ Nov. 10 2012,22:33) Qurans eternal hell.
(From using the keyword search),Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #56)If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #93)They (his dupes) will have their dwelling in hell, and from it they will find no way of escape.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #121)Except the way of hell, to dwell therein for ever. And this to Allah is easy.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #169)On the Day when heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the fire of hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, their flanks, and their backs.- “This is the (treasure) which ye buried for yourselves: taste ye, then, the (treasures) ye buried!”
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #35)Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of hell: Therein shall they dwell: Sufficient is it for them: for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment,-
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #68)In front of such a one is hell, and he is given, for drink, boiling fetid water.
( سورة إبراهيم , Ibrahim, Chapter #14, Verse #16)If any do wish for the transitory things (of this life), We readily grant them – such things as We will, to such person as We will: in the end have We provided hell for them: they will burn therein, disgraced and rejected.
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #18)It is he whom Allah guides, that is on true Guidance; but he whom He leaves astray – for such wilt thou find no protector besides Him. On the Day of Judgment We shall gather, them together, prone on their faces, blind, dumb, and deaf: their abode will be hell: every time it shows abatement, We shall increase from them the fierceness of the Fire.
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #97)But those who reject (Allah) – for them will be the Fire of hell: No term shall be determined for them, so they should die, nor shall its Penalty be lightened for them. Thus do We reward every ungrateful one! Therein will they cry aloud (for assistance): “Our Lord! Bring us out: we shall work righteousness, not the (deeds) we used to do!” – “Did We not give you long enough life so that he that would should receive admonition? and (moreover) the warner came to you. So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds): for the wrong-doers there is no helper.”
( سورة فاطر , Fatir, Chapter #35, Verse #36-37)Those in the Fire will say to the Keepers of hell: “Pray to your Lord to lighten us the Penalty for a day (at least)!”
( سورة غافر , Ghafir, Chapter #40, Verse #49)Those who reject the Book and the (revelations) with which We sent our messengers: but soon shall they know,- When the yokes (shall be) round their necks, and the chains; they shall be dragged along – In the boiling fetid fluid: then in the Fire shall they be burned; And burning in hell-Fire.
( سورة غافر , Ghafir, Chapter #40, Verse #71-72)“Unless I proclaim what I receive from Allah and His Messages: for any that disobey Allah and His Messenger,- for them is hell: they shall dwell therein for ever.”
( سورة الجن , Al-Jinn, Chapter #72, Verse #23)
Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Matthew 13:50
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Mark 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenchedMark 9:48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;Hell is real!
Bod, you are misunderstanding Jesus.
Let's look at those verses which you gave and some others too, okay.Mark 9,
“And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.
And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.”Yes, and then Jesus goes on to explain:
Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather FEAR HIM WHO CAN DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY in hell.
DESTROY.
Destroy means to Destroy, it means to finish, YET, the Quran says that the Body and Soul is NOT destroyed but that it continues on and is continually burnt alive.This is not what the Bible says.
This is a lie which obviously originated with the original liar, the Devil. Jesus called the Devil the deceiver of the whole world and the murderer from the beginning and the liar who has no truth in Him, and it is Him who said that they would not die:Genesis 3:1-4
'Now the SERPENT was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God say, `You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?”
And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden;
but God said, `You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, LEST YOU DIE.'”
But the serpent said to the woman, “YOU WILL NOT DIE. 'And then God said to Adam 'In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; you are dust,
and to d
ust you shall return.”So, due to disobedience, they died and we all die.
But Jesus came as the second Adam to give eternal life to those who were given life, and He spoke the TRUTH!Matthew 13,
So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.”
For how long will they weep and gnash their teeth and what does weeping and gnashing the teeth mean. It means to weep with regret and to gnash the teeth in frustration. And Jesus here is speaking about the end day when people will be eternally destroyed.
Look:
“Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH, THE LAKE OF FIRE;
and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15.Romans 6:23 'For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord'.
SECOND DEATH.
Death means death. It does not mean LIFE.2Peter which you quoted as evidence of 'eternal conscious torment' doesn't work in your favor because in context it shows that the end result is destruction!
“For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment;
if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven other persons, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomor'rah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example to those who were to be ungodly;
and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the licentiousness of the wicked (for by what that righteous man saw and heard as he lived among them, he was vexed in his righteous soul day after day with their lawless deeds),
then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trial, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.Kept in punishment until the day of JUDGMENT, this is not for eternity.
John 3:16
'For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not PERISH but have eternal life.'John 4:1
“Whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”John 10:28
“And I give eternal life to them, and they will never PERISH; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.”Rom 6:23
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”James 5:20
'Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from DEATH.'James 2:26
For AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, so faith without works is dead also.Rev. 20:14
“Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the SECOND DEATH, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”And Matthew 7:13
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”The free GIFT from God is eternal life. A gift is a gift, it is not a gift which is given to all. To the others, they are thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death, and the punishment is eternal, which is eternal DEATH.
When the Bible mentions 'everlasting punishment' it is exactly as it means in light of the other scriptures. It is the opposite of the gift of eternal life, and it (annihilation) is eternal in its consequences.The EFFECTS of the punishment (eternal annihilation) are everlasting. There is no hope for them, they are gone. And for those who have loved ones, that is sad enough if they chose not to accept God's gift of eternal life.
To cause someone not to exist is not a punishment because they would not even be conscious to know they don't exist so how do you explain wailing and gnashing of teeth if someone simply doesn't exist?Also you are declaring the atheist philosophy as correct do whatever you want because there is no punishment you will simply die and that's it. If what you were saying was true judgement would be meaningless what would be the point of raising someone up for judgement to tell them to simply go back to death where they were already?
We are all going to go to sleep when we die and then the judgement will come, you seem to believe the judgement has no consequences but I assure you simply not existing can not be a punishmet as a punishment can only take place in a conscious being.
When a person has a paralyzed body part can you punish that body part where they can understand that it is punishment?
Bod, you said
Quote To cause someone not to exist is not a punishment because they would not even be conscious to know they don't exist so how do you explain wailing and gnashing of teeth if someone simply doesn't exist? Also you are declaring the atheist philosophy as correct do whatever you want because there is no punishment you will simply die and that's it. If what you were saying was true judgement would be meaningless what would be the point of raising someone up for judgement to tell them to simply go back to death where they were already?
We are all going to go to sleep when we die and then the judgement will come, you seem to believe the judgement has no consequences but I assure you simply not existing can not be a punishmet as a punishment can only take place in a conscious being.
So are you saying that God's decision that the wages of sin is death are not GOOD enough? And that God should do MORE? And that God should eternally punish people in agony for all of eternity? Is this not MANS idea of punishment, well, not even a normal man but an insane one?
Think about it Bod.
God does not change. God does not hold His anger forever. That is in the Scriptures too.
Do you believe that God is love?
Can you define love for me please thank you!Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 11 2012,14:28) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2012,22:43) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 10 2012,21:07) Yes Ed.but how can we make them see this, and convince them,that this is the case. wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,Without them taking the bible seriously, it presents great difficulty.
You do know that it is against 'sharia law' to preach “Christ”
publishable by death(beheading of course). (Rev.20:4)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
EdJ.Can you quote that bit?
wakeup.
Quote (2besee @ Nov. 12 2012,10:29) Bod, you said Quote To cause someone not to exist is not a punishment because they would not even be conscious to know they don't exist so how do you explain wailing and gnashing of teeth if someone simply doesn't exist? Also you are declaring the atheist philosophy as correct do whatever you want because there is no punishment you will simply die and that's it. If what you were saying was true judgement would be meaningless what would be the point of raising someone up for judgement to tell them to simply go back to death where they were already?
We are all going to go to sleep when we die and then the judgement will come, you seem to believe the judgement has no consequences but I assure you simply not existing can not be a punishmet as a punishment can only take place in a conscious being.
So are you saying that God's decision that the wages of sin is death are not GOOD enough? And that God should do MORE? And that God should eternally punish people in agony for all of eternity? Is this not MANS idea of punishment, well, not even a normal man but an insane one?
Think about it Bod.
God does not change. God does not hold His anger forever. That is in the Scriptures too.
Do you believe that God is love?
Can you define love for me please thank you!
I really want you to “feel good” but the fact is there are consequences to the actions of people. may not like the concept of Hell but that doesn't make it go away.Your idea of Hell is non-existence and to be honest with you I woud rather suffer and be somewhat alive than not to exist who knows as you said God does not hold his anger forever and may let someone out of hell but to completely cause someone to non-exist is both not a punishment and the most cruel of all
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 12 2012,11:34) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 11 2012,14:28) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2012,22:43) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 10 2012,21:07) Yes Ed.but how can we make them see this, and convince them,that this is the case. wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,Without them taking the bible seriously, it presents great difficulty.
You do know that it is against 'sharia law' to preach “Christ”
publishable by death(beheading of course). (Rev.20:4)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
EdJ.Can you quote that bit?
wakeup.
Regardless of whatever happened the Quran is against such actionsLet there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #256)This is Islam.
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