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Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 10 2011,00:59) Hi Tim, So “doeth” really means 'thinketh', “righteousness” really means 'belief in' and “works” really means 'faith'; did I get this right?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: I just told you what Jesus said the “works” of today are.Jesus said, in red letters, at John 6:28,29…..Then the disciples came to him and said unto him…V28…WHAT SHALL WE “DO” THAT WE MIGHT “WORK” THE “WORKS” OF GOD?….
V29….JESUS SAID UNTO THEM,…..[THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD], [THAT YOU BELIEVE] ON HIM WHOM HE SENT…..!
That's exactly the same as…to do the work of God today is to believe in him whom he sent….(that already did the works)!
Jesus did the work, fully, completely and finished. Jesus gave us the gift of eternal life that he purchased. The works are over.
Believing has begun. Those who believe in him are judged by his works. They then receive his perfection unto God.
His righteousness, his purity et.al. ! Everything we are in God is by faith in what Jesus has already done.
That is the truth!! TK
Quote (ftk @ Oct. 10 2011,02:58) Ed: Then what did you mean when you said, He that “doeth” unrighteousness…! I thought you said that “doeth” meant to do or doing or an act of some sort that would bring or cause righteousness!
Please expound! TK
Hi Tim,Righteousness means “doing” what is right.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Tim,
Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone (faith without works is dead). (James 2:17)
Can you explain away this verse, or do you choose simply not to believe what it's saying?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: When I was a child (in Christ) I spoke like a child, I understood like a child and learned at a child's level of learning. But when I became a man (in Christ) I put away childish things and moved on to deeper and greater things.
It is clear(John6:28) that Jesus said that the work of God is to believe. When the disciples ask him, what shall we do, to work “the works of God” they were clearly referring to the miracle works of God that Jesus had been doing all around town.
Faith works are God works! Miracles of power, supernatural works.
Any man anywhere, at any time he wishes can do a good deed or good “work”. He doesn't even have to know or believe in God.Those are called “works” and “deeds” of men! Supernatural “works” come from God. God is supernatural! A man that does not have faith in God to work through him unto the world cannot do the power works of God. Pure faith must have no blockages like sin, unbelief, can't do, fear, etc.! Only a righteous man with a purified mind can work the works of God. Works of God are evident of God. Works and deeds of man are at his level.
James was saying, works of God are dead if no one works those works. If a man of God is not exercising his faith in God to administer healing/love power to the world, then his faith is dead (not being used)! He is not in “sin” or doing wrong but he is not using his faith to administer God to the world around him.
In the scripture (James2:17)James is not talking about going out and doing good deeds and works. He is referring to faith of God works. There is no “faith” necessary for a man to do good “works” and “deeds”! Faith is necessary in “God works”!
I don't explain away scriptures. I search my heart and God gives me the truth. I don't follow men, only God. One who follows men is in alignment with the masses that go through a very wide gate. Those who follow God in truth go through a very narrow gate. So, those of the truth of God are out-numbered by the masses who follow each other.
I am willing to continue to learn and I am willing to drop the “sarcasm” directed at one another! Its your choice. IMO, TK
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 10 2011,03:17) Quote (ftk @ Oct. 10 2011,02:58) Ed: Then what did you mean when you said, He that “doeth” unrighteousness…! I thought you said that “doeth” meant to do or doing or an act of some sort that would bring or cause righteousness!
Please expound! TK
Hi Tim,Righteousness means “doing” what is right.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: God is righteous! A person who believe Jesus is the righteousness of Christ. Righteousness is perfection or perfect union with God.God is one. God is good. God is love. There is no evil! There is no opposite to God. God is all that is. You can not “do” God! You cannot “do” love! Love/God comes from within by an open act of will. Love accepts, and love allows, and love had no restriction. You cannot “do” a love.
You have mixed your terms and followed mankind in general who believes in “doing” good and evil! As long as there is good and evil there will always be condemnation and sin.
For a man of God, in God, there is no evil, no bad, no wrong, no sin, and no condemnation because there is nothing to condemn.
If you again look up the word that was translated “doeth” you will find it to have an extremely broad variety of interpretation. So you can and must make it say what you believe it to mean in context of the writing.
If you care to, look up Acts20:3 and see that the word “abode” is the same greek word as “doeth”. That word abode was referring to “staying there” for a time.
If you look up James4:13 same word as “doeth” refers to “continue” there for a year.
Again in Rev.13:5….given unto him to “continue” forty years…!I believe it is safe to say that living in or staying in, or abiding in unrighteousness….is like staying in or abiding in sin, or unclean thoughts, or unworthy beliefs. ITS ALL MIND!
Righteousness is a perfected position or “right standing” with God.
It does not mean “doing” what is right. It does mean staying or abiding in what is God. IMO, TKTo all who care: THE NEW TESTAMENT/NEW COVENANT WITH GOD, THROUGH JESUS CHRIST IS TEACHING MANKIND
WHAT HE IS, NOW AND WHAT HE CAN DO……NOT……WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO, SAY OR BE!
GOD DID A WORK THROUGH JESUS ON BEHALF OF MANKIND THAT PERFECTED MANKIND FOREVER. HE
GAVE THE NEWS OF THE PERFECTION HE CREATED THROUGH JESUS, TO MANKIND FOR FREE! TO LIVE IN
GOD GIVEN PERFECTION ALL MANKIND HAS TO DO IS BELIEVE IT IS SO. TOTAL PERFECTION IS ALL IN THE
MIND TO BE ACCEPTED WITH THANKSGIVING OR REJECTED AS CAN'T BELIEVE, TO EASY, NOT THE WAY
RELIGION SAYS IT IS! WE MUST BE INVOLVED SAYS MANKIND….YOU CAN DIE WITH THAT MINDSET! TK
Quote (ftk @ Oct. 10 2011,21:30) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 10 2011,03:25) Hi Tim, Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone (faith without works is dead). (James 2:17)
Can you explain away this verse, or do you choose simply not to believe what it's saying?
Ed:Only a righteous man with a purified mind can work the works of God.
IMO, TK
Hi Tim,It would seem you are indeed willing to learn from me (Heb.11:40);
that's why I must continue to reach out to you with “Bible Truth”!Quote (ftk @ Oct. 10 2011,21:30) I am willing to continue to learn and I am willing to drop the “sarcasm” directed at one another!
Sarcasm, criticism and ridicule are works of unrighteousness;
I'm glad you are willing to desist form such child-like behavior.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: If you were reaching out with “the truth” from God there would be no reason for my long responses that attempt to fully explain your error.
When I say I learn from you don't forget learning can be of the truth or error. I have only seen your error, I have not found any new truth that I can recall! TK
Ed: Believing that anything a person can do, to either make you righteous or more righteous or if one has the belief that any works or “good deeds” or physical “efforts” or “attempts”(on their part) to “add too” or further please God, that a man might possibly think could add to, help, increase, build up, pay for, or be in better union with God, other than “FAITH” alone in what he did for us, is true blasphemy against the finished work of Jesus!!!
Any person who believes in works and deeds to better his union with God will be judged according to his works and deeds. They fail! No matter what the works are!
Anyone trying to work out their salvation or “do works” for God “points” always falls short because they already believe they need to “do” something to please God. They don't believe they have been made perfect in Christ.
Anyone who cannot say, I am a perfect, flawless, purified, whole son of the living God through Jesus the Christ is not yet a part of the truth of God.Any person who accepts and believes the work of Jesus giving us Gods words for creating a new perfect man unto God,is exactly what God says he is. That is the judgment! A man by faith in Christ, that knows his perfection from God, is judged by that word of God through Jesus, as perfect in Christ. His name is written in the book of life! There is no further judgment for those in the book of life. The only way to reverse his perfection is if he begins to try or attempt to work for God. Then the mind returns back to guilt, judgment and failure.
Any person who humbles himself unto God and says in his heart, Father,… I don't know why you loved me so much, I don't understand all you have done. But I can see that Jesus came from you and with you and showed mankind the power of love that worketh in each individual that has a clear, clean mind and heart filled with that love. Jesus did a powerful work in the earth to teach a total recreation of humanity. The new man of God created by God/Spirit words in the mans mind/heart. A new creation, new man with his mind washed clean by the water of the words of God through Jesus creating a new mind as a Son of God with no guilt, no fear, no evil in his mind, cleansed by the words of God accepted by faith/believing!
The works for God were completely done through Jesus and given to mankind to accept by faith and rise up in Christ unto a new man of God. OUR ONLY CONNECTION IS BY FAITH! THE ONLY CONNECTION TO GOD THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE BIBLE HAS ALWAYS BEEN FAITH. BY FAITH ALONE ARE WE ALL SAVED IN THIS HOPE OF GOD!!
The greatest error that can be made by man, per his unification with God, is believing works, on his part, of any kind, matter!! TK
Quote (ftk @ Oct. 13 2011,20:54) Ed: Believing that anything a person can do, to either make you righteous or more righteous or if one has the belief that any works or “good deeds” or physical “efforts” or “attempts”(on their part) to “add too” or further please God, that a man might possibly think could add to, help, increase, build up, pay for, or be in better union with God, other than “FAITH” alone in what he did for us, is true blasphemy against the finished work of Jesus!!! Any person who believes in works and deeds to better his union with God will be judged according to his works and deeds. They fail! No matter what the works are!
Anyone trying to work out their salvation or “do works” for God “points” always falls short because they already believe they need to “do” something to please God. They don't believe they have been made perfect in Christ.
TK
Hi Tim,You keep saying things OVER AND OVER AGAIN that I do not profess.
Our righteous works prove to our fellow man where our heart is;
God already knows where our heart is with or without works.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: Just a few posts back you said,…..[Quote] Hi Tim,….Righteousness means “doing” what is right!
That statement is saying that you can “do” or not “do” righteousness! That is not true! The righteousness of God that I speak of is by believing God made us righteous. Nothing but faith! God did it, God gave it and I believe it. TK
ftk,Oct. wrote:Ed: Just a few posts back you said,…..
Quote Hi Tim,….Righteousness means “doing” what is right! That statement is saying that you can “do” or not “do” righteousness! That is not true! The righteousness of God that I speak of is by believing God made us righteous. Nothing but faith! God did it, God gave it and I believe it. TK
Hi Tim,1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: Only a fool rejects good counsel and turns away from the truth, knowingly! You refuse to interpret this scripture in alignment with many others that say righteousness is by faith(only) in God. That scripture more accurately says, …..whosoever abideth not in righteousness is, not of God….!
Then you say that the scripture, at 1John2:29….If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that “doeth” righteousness is born of him…..is your truth. If the word “doeth” in this scripture is not re-phrased more correctly to….every one that abides in righteousness is born of him….then it can only mean that there is no need for faith! No deed for Jesus to come and die. It means that if a man does what you call “righteous deeds” he is somehow born of God! Faith unto God is eliminated completely! Men working righteous deeds is tantamount to the new birth, being “born again” or is born of him! That is a very dark doctrine of lies. You have stumbled on the stumbling-stone as many others.
If you tried to be in error of belief, you couldn't be further from the truth given by Jesus!! Now I see, our doctrines have an extremely wide gap. A huge impassable schism of belief. There is no truth in the New Testament that is not taken, accepted, unified, consummated, brought to the reality of mankind that is not by FAITH in what Jesus said was truth from God!!
Works unto righteousness failed in the old testament and works unto righteousness fail in the New Testament. Grace is out of your hands!
Rom.10:10….for by the heart man believeth unto righteousness…Rom.10:3…for they being IGNORANT of God's righteousness and GOING ABOUT TO ESTABLISH THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God….for Christ is the END OF THE LAW to every one that “BELIEVETH”!!
Rom.11:5….there is a remnant according to the election of grace….and if by grace then it is no more of works…!
I think I'll just save my time and effort, I don't believe, Ed, that you ever bother to read the many, many scriptures that express doing away with “works” or “deed” of any sort as applying to salvation in Christ. The deepest blindness is in the one that says he see's! TK
Quote (ftk @ Oct. 14 2011,20:52) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 13 2011,21:30) Hi Tim, You keep saying things OVER AND OVER AGAIN that I do not profess.
Our righteous works prove to our fellow man where our heart is;
God already knows where our heart is with or without works.
Ed:You refuse to interpret this scripture in alignment with many others that say righteousness is by faith(only) in God.
TK
Hi Tim,Why do you keep making-up 'stuff' about me that isn't true?
What people “DO” (righteous or unrighteous),
is based on what they believe(faith).God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (ftk @ Oct. 14 2011,20:52) Ed: I think I'll just save my time and effort, I don't believe, Ed, that you ever bother to read the many, many
scriptures that express doing away with “works” or “deed” of any sort as applying to salvation in Christ.TK
Hey Tim,Nobody here has suggested to you that we work to earn our (according to Tim) salvation;
Why to do persist, in almost every post you make, in suggesting that I somehow have?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: You err? Pursuant to God or having to do with God, there is no such thing as an “action of righteousness”. There are acts of love and kindness but righteousness pertaining to God, is a state of cleansed, purification of man, created by God alone, for man, accepted as a gift by man, from God, by faith. Your union with God is by faith to unite with him. To fall away one must decide to disbelieve the truth that God gave. Actions don't apply unless you remain under judgment. If you reject the salvation by faith and carry on through works and deeds that is what you will be judged by. Faith in Gods perfection is the final judgment. There is nothing left to judge. Those two religions do not mix!! The old testament laws of works and deeds failed to make the worshiper perfect. The old failed, is failing, and will fail! The New Testament by faith makes perfect forever. IMO, TK
Quote (ftk @ Oct. 15 2011,21:02) Ed: You err? The old testament laws of works and deeds failed to make the worshiper perfect.
IMO, TK
Hey Tim,Nobody here has suggested to you that we work to earn our (according to Tim) perfection;
Why to do persist, in almost every post you make, in suggesting that I somehow have?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
[URL=http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: Lets face the truth here Ed. You say….. faith “AND”…..God just says “FAITH”!! If your personal actions or deeds or works have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with your righteousness or your forgiveness, or any part of the total salvation, then it is of “YOU” apart from God. You (or me or anyone) has absolutely nothing to do with what God has done and given to mankind through Jesus!!
The entire package from God is received, accepted, made effective in mankind by “WHOSOEVER WILL COME BY FAITH/TRUST/BELIEVING GOD HAS DONE THE WORK AND GIVEN THE GIFT!!
This is the day of rest from works. Jesus set forth and established the law of the Sabbath. This is the day of the lord. This is the Sabbath rest of Jesus. The work for perfection in the Kingdom of God is finished. Jesus is resting with the Father “until” his enemies(not mankind, errant thinking) are put under foot. This is what we must do. Put all evil thinking away. Evil is not. Evil and all its destructive fruit must be enlightened to the truth so as to obliterate the darkness. We must work the works of God in this day. Healing the sick and raising those dead, lost in darkness believing in sin and trespasses through works and deeds!
The perfected child of God in this day should rise up in truth knowing that only God can heal the world. Then he must stop waiting for God to do the work. God has perfected mankind that sees to go forth and make disciples of all who will believe.
It is up to us now to rid the earth of “evil” that was believed and passed down by man throughout the ages. We must rid the heart first of all forms of evil thinking against our brothers and the love will then flow to world perfection. IMO, TK
Hi Tim,
Your works do have something to do with ones righteousness, see 1John 3:9-10.
1 John 3:9-10 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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