New Age Philosophy Tim Kraft?

Participant

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 27 2011,23:22)

Quote (ftk @ Oct. 24 2011,22:03)

Pierre: That was a scripture I quoted from memory at the time…..Romans4:16…Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace: to the end the promise might be made sure to all the seed….!

Grace is by faith! Everything God has done through Jesus and given to mankind is by “FAITH”!

Rom3:28….therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith…WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW!!….3:22…even the righteousness of God which is by “faith” of Jesus Christ [unto all] and [upon all] them that “believe”…for there is no difference…(Jew,Gentile,bond,free etc.)

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God! Faith increases with the knowledge of God through Jesus. The new man in God is created by faith. TK

But Tim, What of the person who has faith in Jesus, yet does nothing about it? Is that not the case where faith without works is dead? Doesn't that more convict that person of eminity with God, for believing in him yet doing nothing?

In other words, What you say is possible. When a long lost sinner on thier deathbed truely does repent and profess his faith in Jesus, and ask for forgiveness, they can have thier whole life of sin wiped clean. IMO, what you say. But if that person recovers, and goes out and does abominable things knowing they are against God, the last condition would be worse than the first. What you do shows whats in your heart, but is doesn't save you. If you show up here and I say “I love you Tim”, yet I smack you around a couple of times and rape your wife, how much do I love you really? Remember, according to you there is no law, so If I feel like it I can do anything I want, without reprisal. I can jack your car and money, take anything I want, sacrifice to Idols, ANYTHING!!! There is no law!!!! I do not believe that.

Mike: The Bible says that sin was in the world before the law. Sin IMO never was something done by mankind. Sin was mankind not believing he was ONE with God or not in unity/perfection with God. Believing in an action or something performed bad, against God or believing that an action was something performed good unto God is sin. One of the great errors of all time was man attempting to do good for God or fearing doing bad and separating himself from God.

The efforts of man, what man does or does not do, the work of his hands as a peace offering or cleansing offering is tantamount to a form of idolatry. The worship of the works of the hands of man. Mans belief in his performance of so called “good” to cause unity between God and man is an abomination in Gods eyes.

Let me also clarify here that when a person comes to/or connects with Jesus it is when he finds out what Jesus has already done for him. The reason Jesus came was to do everything necessary to unify man and God together as ONE like in the beginning, God/Man! Making Jesus lord is making his teachings lord of your life. Whatever Jesus says you are in God is what you are. You seem to be saying what ever you do you are.

That is not the truth. Whatever God says you are through the words of Jesus is what you are. That is the truth apart from any type actions. Your relationship with God is not tied to your efforts for cleanliness on earth. Here on earth you reap what you sow, from your mind even your thoughts, if you contemplate on and ponder evil enough. What you give out you get back in life. That does not effect or change your relationship with God.

The key that you might be missing is you are looking for retribution from God for doing evil but God will not judge. The word of God is the judgment of today. In Christ you are perfected love. You can't be in Christ/love and do what is evil/destructive. IMO, TK

October 28, 2011 at 11:53 am#261368

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Oct. 28 2011,02:25)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 27 2011,23:22)

Quote (ftk @ Oct. 24 2011,22:03)

Pierre: That was a scripture I quoted from memory at the time…..Romans4:16…Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace: to the end the promise might be made sure to all the seed….!

Grace is by faith! Everything God has done through Jesus and given to mankind is by “FAITH”!

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God! Faith increases with the knowledge of God through Jesus. The new man in God is created by faith. TK

Tim I am so screwed. Since I have evil desires and thoughts, according to you, I am not in Jesus/good thoughts. When I see a woman from 20 to 60 and she has a big rack and a skinny waist and a big butt, I watch her walk. I am not looking at her shoes. I look at mustang convertables and miss my old one. I see spanish workers and think about how they don't pay taxes and I do and I resent them. ON and on and on and on….I think about how the churches are giving less than 10% to benevolence and I resent them too. I realize how for away I am from the child like faith Jesus told me to have, and I know that he told me to have that. Because I am awash in all these sins, I know I am not in the sinless position you say I should be. Woe is me. Woe is me. I will try to do the best I can to turn from sin and beg God for mercy. Peace

October 28, 2011 at 3:39 pm#261377

Participant

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 28 2011,22:53)

When I see a woman from 20 to 60 and she has a big rack and a skinny waist and a big butt, I watch her walk. I am not looking at her shoes.

Hi Mark,

Looketh meaneth “Planeth”,
rather than merely only to looketh.
Perhaps you don't know what sin is either?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים=117 (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)

October 28, 2011 at 4:02 pm#261381

Participant

Mark: You go out of your way to attempt to condemn yourself as a sinner. All that garbage you spewed on paper is not a criteria for judgment unto God!

God says you are perfect! You seem to say oh, no Im not, I'm a sinner, look here what I do! or don't do! or have done! Or might do! or think about! GOD IS NOT GRADING YOU ON THOSE “THINGS”!!

You have already been graded by Jesus. You are already clean and made perfect by Jesus. If you accept his gift or perfection. If not be as evil as you wish to be.

GOD GRADES YOU AS PERFECT THROUGH WHAT JESUS DID! YOUR CLEANSING IS DONE AND FINISHED BY JESUS AND HANDED TO YOU ON A SILVER PLATTER……YOU ARE REJECTING HIS WORKS FOR YOUR PERFECTION AS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. YOU GO AGAINST GOD AND SAY OH NO IM NOT PERFECT,……I'M A SINNER!

Its done, its up to you to believe it or not. IMO, TK

October 28, 2011 at 4:56 pm#261386

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 29 2011,02:39)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 28 2011,22:53)

When I see a woman from 20 to 60 and she has a big rack and a skinny waist and a big butt, I watch her walk. I am not looking at her shoes.

Hi Mark,

Looketh meaneth “Planeth”,
rather than merely only to looketh.
Perhaps you don't know what sin is either?

Hi Mark,

Sin is what one does, NOT what one thinks; that is
unless your thoughts are rebellion against God!
Tim misses this point, do you miss it as well?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 29, 2011 at 10:41 am#261464

Participant

Ed: Are you sure you want to go against Jesus again with your doctrines? You said…..

….Sin is what one does, [NOT what one thinks]; that is
unless your thoughts are rebellion against God!
Tim misses this point, do you miss it as well?…….

Matt.5:28….Jesus said,…I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her(all in the mind)….HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY WITH HER ALREADY [IN HIS HEART]….!!

Do you deny the truth again for the sake of you religious doctrines? TK

October 29, 2011 at 10:47 am#261465

Participant

Hi Tim,

Do you not even read my posts? Looketh meaneth planeth! (Link)

Now lets examine the related bible verses FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING!
Matt.5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman
to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

looketh: Greek #4328 προσδοκάω (prosdokaó) prŏs-dŏk-äh'-ō:
to expect, to wait for, to look forward to, to anticipate

Gen.4:7 If thou DOEST WELL, shalt thou not be accepted?
and If thou DOEST NOT WELL, sin lieth at the door.

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 29, 2011 at 11:54 am#261466

seekingtruth

Participant

Ed,
I found something different for Matt.5:28?

blepó: to look (at)
Original Word: βλέπω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: blepó
Phonetic Spelling: (blep'-o)
Short Definition: I look, see
Definition: (primarily physical), I look, see, perceive, discern.

October 29, 2011 at 12:41 pm#261467

Participant

Tim,

What I am saying, is we are totally on oppisite sides of understanding. A few examples- In the parable of the man standing in the front of the temple with head unbowed (IMO, you) Telling God he is glad he is not the poor sinner in the back, thinking himself rightious, and perfect. The man in the back beat his breasst and could not even look up, and thought “forgive me Lord, a sinner” Jesus says HE WENT HOME FORGIVEN, WHILE THE OTHER DID NOT!!!!!!!! The very prayer that JESUS gave us, which makes it the most important one of all, says FORGIVE US OUR TRASSPASSES, AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRASSPASS AGAINST US!!!! To trasspass what? THE LAW!!! He told others to follow the commandments for everlasting life. AFTER JOHN. You IMO are totally mislead by this new age religion that has came up to decieve/destroy disease, even deny the pureness of Jesus Christ. Why in the world would he tell us that if there is no law? We are oppisite on this. God wants you to REPENT. John said to REPENT. REPENT what Tim? Notice in all of that, in any streach of the imagination of scripture, I don't read anyone in the bible saying “Forget that there is sin, and you will be sinless” . Why doesn't the Lords prayer say “Help us to forget the law and live lawlessly” Thats cow philosophy. What does the Bible say will happen in the end Tim? Oh thats right, you say there is no end, EVEN THOUGH IT”S PLAIN AS DAY IN THE BIBLE “Behold, I come like a thief!” But for the rest of rational christians, they realize that the world will be decieved from God and follow the Devil, and God will Judge it. Not the happy ever after senereo I hear you profess. A man asked Jesus what he needed to do to inherit everlasting life. Jesus said “You know the commandments”. Tim Kraft says “There are no commandments” I choose Jesus. Peace

October 29, 2011 at 12:58 pm#261468

Participant

By the way, I'm not a pervert, I was trying to make a point on the sinful position man is in until he is forgiven and made anew. My differant position on this from some of you is you think that it is instant, and you are already cleaned. Not so in my book. Since I read the bible, I am at great odds with 1-Myself, 2-My church, and 3-My country. God set it up that way, and we will always err. We have even when we had true prophets telling us what God said, and now they have been taken away, we are more lost than ever, even more so than in Chronicles and Kings, and you can read what God did back then, just think about what is coming now………. I do look, but I don't stare. God does good work, and it is apparent in some beautiful women he made. Most of them however, are like mercedes benz cars, nice to look at but too expensive to maintain. I love my wife. She is on my level as far as looks go. I do not disrespect her and look at other women in front of her, also I have never touched another woman. My point is that no one is sinless or perfect. That is abominable to think that. Also Satanic IMO. “Do as thou wilst shall be the whole of the law”. That is exactly what Tim is saying, and that comes directly from Aliester Crowley. Don't buy that deception. IMO it could cost you eternity. “Behold I come like a thief!” Peace Mark

October 29, 2011 at 9:48 pm#261486

Participant

(O.T.O.) (Order of the Temple of the East, or the Order of Oriental Templars) is an international fraternal and religious organization founded at the beginning of the 20th century. English author and occultist Aleister Crowley has become the most well known member of the order.

Originally it was intended to be modelled after and associated with Freemasonry,[1] but under the leadership of Aleister Crowley, O.T.O. was reorganized around the Law of Thelema as its central religious principle. This Law—expressed as “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law” [2] and “Love is the law, love under will” [3]—was promulgated in 1904 with the writing of The Book of the Law.

October 30, 2011 at 8:46 am#261502

Participant

Is this about you Tim? It sounds like it. Am I wrong?

October 30, 2011 at 11:08 am#261506

Participant

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 29 2011,23:41)

Tim,

Mark: If you have a son that comes to you, broken hearted that he has done a terrible thing, humbly saying he is sorry….and you say its ok, I forgive you…please stand up…hold your head up…you are my son, I say you are good and perfect to go forth and live your life to its fulness. Would you expect him to stand up or stay bowed?

God says, know I am with you always, my love for you can never be separated. I give you your own kingdom of free choice to experience life and love. If however you decide to sow hate and destruction in your life all those things you sow you will reap in your life. IF YOU FORGIVE then I will forgive you as you forgive others. If you don't forgive others and hold against them what you believe to be sin and wrong “doings” then neither can I forgive you.

This is the law of life. What you put out comes to you. Under the old law you might get away with hurting others but under the new way it returns to you for you to experience.

If you are forgiven of sin then you have no sin. That's what God says. You say if I am forgiven of sin so then I must sin no more. You have identified “sin” as something you do or don't do.
That is your belief. You must take charge of what you accept as your truth. IMO, you have accepted and believed that you are in a war with sin. Sin in your mind telling you to do bad and God in your heart telling you that if you sin you burn forever. This is all lies from religious misunderstanding. I was there for many years. It is a most disgusting mode of living.

If you stay in the word of God, desiring to know the truth of God, you will find the truth and the truth will MAKE you free!

My truth is not “new age” if you count that I learned it over 30 years ago.

If I tell you of peace, love and joy in the lord with no sin, evil, bad or hurt how is it that you say my religion…..”is to destroy, deceive, disease and deny the pureness of Jesus Christ”…..!

I said that Jesus took away our sin! Jesus came to take away our sin. Did he do it? I accept that. You say you do not! Its a choice of beliefs. I accept and believe every word from the mouth of Jesus. I forgive everybody for everything. The lords prayer says….forgive us our trespasses [as we forgive] those who trespass against us….! So I am forgiven! If you condemn others as deceived, wrong, followers of lies and deceptions then you are not able to be forgiven. (according to the prayer)

Those who follow the “devil” are following “lies” and “deceptions”!
Those lies create death, destruction, sin, hate, wars, killing, etc.!

God is truth, those who follow God are in truth, life, light, love, peace, joy, harmony, goodness, kindness, etc.!

Which of these two choices do you expound to the world or any who will listen?

The destruction that is to come upon mankind is the destruction that mankind believes for, looks for, waits for, anticipates, conjures up within and releases in this world. His own destruction. For sure you see death and destruction coming in the future, that is what you are professing now!! Wake up! TK

October 30, 2011 at 11:24 am#261507

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Oct. 30 2011,22:08)

You have identified “sin” as something you do or don't do. That is your belief.

Hi Tim,

What do you make of this biblical passage?

go, and sin no more. (John 8:11)
By the way, this is what Jesus said
to the women caught in adultery.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 30, 2011 at 1:14 pm#261509

Participant

Hey Ed: All conjunctions are placed “as needed” in translation from Greek to English. Any sentence in the New Testament can be greatly altered to truth or error by the translator. Go “and” sin no more is just a accurately written….go “in” sin, no more. Which is would obviously fit my belief of sin being in the mind or she was thinking she was in sin.

When the Jews ask Jesus about the man born blind, they said….[WHO DID SIN] [this man](?) or [his parents](?), that he was born blind…..Jesus answered them and said…..NEITHER HATH THIS MAN SINNED, NOR HIS PARENTS!!….BUT THAT THE [WORKS] OF GOD SHOULD BE MANIFEST IN HIM, I MUST [WORK THE WORKS] OF HIM WHO SENT ME…..Then he healed him to see. (John9;3)
Neither the man nor his parents had sinned! Neither hath this man sinned….neither hath his parents sinned….! WE ARE ONLY IN SIN WHEN WE THINK WE ARE IN SIN!!

You must admit that if there is an action that is “sin” and Jesus forgives all “sin” if we ask, which removes that “sin”, then the only difference between what you say and what I believe is the “asking for forgiveness each time there is a sin”, then it is removed and there is no sin, right? But then you say….but if we continue to sin, willfully, there is no more forgiveness. The act of a sin would be willful in the first place wouldn't it? Can you “sin” without knowing it? So you should ask forgiveness 24/7 to be cleansed of sin! Wouldn't that get in the way of regular life on earth? It would surely cause havoc in the work force.

Jesus came to take away sin forever. He nailed it to the cross. He removed our sin from east to west. There should be no more sin after one finds the truth from Jesus. If there is still sin and sin consciousness then there is no further sacrifice and that man is separated from God forever.

The gems and true riches of Gods truth are not on the surface. One must dig deeper into the truth to find the read good stuff. IMO, TK

October 30, 2011 at 3:14 pm#261513

Participant

Hi Tim,

What do you make of this verse…

Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold,
thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. (John 5:14)
Must he control his thoughts, or must he control his actions; which is Jesus referring to here?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 31, 2011 at 12:37 am#261534

Participant

Tim!!! You trip me out!!!! Look at what you wrote-

This is the law of life. What you put out comes to you. Under the old law you might get away with hurting others but under the new way it returns to you for you to experience.

YOU YOURSELF WROTE THIS!!! LOOK!-“This is the law of life”. YOU SO CONTRADICT YOURSELF! YOU SAID MANY, MANY TIMES THERE IS NO LAW!!!!!!!! What ? And now here is “the law of life”. ? I agree with all that you wrote here. The son who realizes he did something wrong and ask for forgiveness,(Repents), and then the good father forgives him, He is forgiven, just like the prodigal son in the parable. And he can hold his head high. He realized where he did wrong and asked for forgiveness. Not “Dad, its your deal, there are no rules or laws so I did not break any, you upset yourself, get over it”. WILL HE BE FORGIVEN???

Then after this, it seems to me you dropped some acid or something.

Quote

RIGHT ON!!! And I am going to win. Not from my power but Jesus' Power. Then if he lets me, I'm gonna kick Satan's (donkey) from one end of this universe to the other before he's destroyed. He's got it coming.

Show me one place in scripture that after you believe in Jesus, you are not capable of sin. It says quite the contrary “keep what you have and don't let anyone steal your crown”, “Watch!”, “stay awake!”, “many false prophets will arise!” etc. etc.. You said at one time you had a daughter in rough shape from an ex I think, as I do. Is it ok for them to neglect thier kids? Cheat on your daughter? Molest your grandchildren? What about the other freaks out there? I tire of this crazyness Tim. You make no sense.

October 31, 2011 at 12:46 am#261536

Participant

Quote

Because when you claim perfection, you idolize yourself, and minimize the perfection in Jesus, which you will NEVER attain in yourself in this life and in this world. Only God is good.

October 31, 2011 at 12:57 am#261537

Participant

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 31 2011,11:46)

Because when you claim perfection, you idolize yourself, and minimize the perfection in Jesus, which you will NEVER attain in yourself in this life and in this world. Only God is good.

Hi Mark,

2Tm.3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

What power are these 'religious people' denying if not the power to live sin free?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 31, 2011 at 1:56 am#261544