Nephilim

[kenrch]

Quote (kenrch @ July 06 2006,23:41)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2006,23:35) Hi, There is no suggestion in that verse that Seth began the calling of the name of the Lord as Adam was still alive and he had other sons and daughters. Cain was sent away so it is more likely that they intermarried among the relations who were with them. This was not evil in God's sight, after all Adam had relations with his own rib. I'm glad it wasn't my idea

Gen 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name “Enosh”. 'Then began men to call upon the name of Jehovah'.
Oh I see you are right it was his son Enoch.

[NickHassan]

Hi kenrch,
Not necessarily either. It simply started at that time.

[Cubes]

From July 06, 2006

ANOTHER PUZZLER

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Excerpts for GENESIS 6

vs 1 = …when ADAM began to multiply on the face of the earth…
vs 2 = the sons of God (ben `elohiym) saw the daughters of ADAM that they were fair…
vs 3 = And YHWH said, my spirit shall not always strive with ADAM, for that he also is FLESH…
*vs 4 = There were N@PHIL in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of ADAM, and they bare [children] to them, the SAME [became] GIBBOWR which [were] of old, `ENOWSH of renown.
vs 5 = And GOD saw that the wickedness of ADAM [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
vs 6 = And it repented the LORD that he had made ADAM on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
vs 7 = And the LORD said, I will destroy ADAM whom I have created from the face of the earth; both ADAM, and B@HEMAH, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
vs 8 = But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
vs 11-12 = The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh (BASAR) had corrupted his way upon the earth.
vs 13 = And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh (BASAR) is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
vs 17 = And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy BASAR, wherein [is] THE BREATH OF LIFE, FROM UNDER HEAVEN; [and] EVERYTHING THAT IS IN THE EARTH SHALL DIE.
vs 18-19 = But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
And of EVERY LIVING THING OF ALL FLESH (BASAR), two of every [sort] shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep [them] alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

The above mentions the massive and total destruction of all ADAM (with the exception of the Noahs) and all wildlife: ALL FLESH that had the BREATH OF LIFE in it under heaven: except for the two of every kind, male and female, that were to board the ark with Noah. N@PHILS were not included on the list. What does that mean? They were not flesh? Or were they set for destruction entirely? But noticed that God saved two of every kind of thing he destroyed and 8 ADAM.

[NickHassan]

Hi cubes,
ENOWSH is far, far more common that ADAM when used of man. ADAM perhaps is used when God wants to remind men of their first human parentage?

[Cubes]

From July 7, 2006 by Kenrch:

Quote

Cubes are you saying that when Noah put two of every animal in the ark he included the Nephilim? Why would He do that the purpose of the flood was to get rid of the Nephilims.

Hi Ken and all:

We do not know that the purpose of the flood was to get rid of the Nephilim.  In fact, according to Genesis 6, it was ADAM that God had a problem with.  Read Genesis 6:5-7.  

Secondly, yes, I am saying that if Nephilim were considered living things and flesh, then they had to have been included on the ark. In which case, you have to look at Noah and his boys and their wives.  If this is true, then N@phil were simply down-graded and classified as humans.  

If not, then N@phil have a different order and classification, being neither angels nor humans, and you have to consider that they must be the spirits that were locked up.

We know that a sample pair of male and female, of EVERY living thing in which there was breath that were destroyed, were also taken aboard the ark.  

This would have to include N@phil, IF they are to be considered as living things and/or flesh.  So question is, are they?

[Cubes]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2006,01:33)

Hi cubes, ENOWSH is far, far more common that ADAM when used of man.  ADAM perhaps is used when God wants to remind men of their first human parentage?

Thanks Nick.  If men like regular men, then surely flesh and living things.  So what are the chances that as Kenrch points out, Noah or one of the women had their genes?  It does not seem unreasonable to me if they are really considered as men.

[NickHassan]

Hi cubes and kenrch,
The Nephilim are not of God's original plan for creation it would seem. They are all the fruit of rebellion. Enoch suggests they are the demons of earth and not in a prison but many will not accept such information. Would God offer salvation to them??

[Cubes]

Except that if that be the case, then the entire human population is not as purely human as we thought, and that on second thought again, causes the whole thing to unravel.  And Based on that, I have to believe that the Noahs are purely ADAM!

So again, were N@phil classified as living things/flesh or the only `Enowsh that were destroyed without a sample pair being kept, or were they imprisoned as spirits because perhaps as I said earlier, they were not the actual rebellious angels and could find grace for being part Adam?  

Or could n@phil just be big 100% Adam as Ken proposes.
And if so, then my question is, who are the children of the sons of God then and why did God mention them if he wasn't going to say anything else about them?

[Cubes]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2006,03:44)

Hi cubes and kenrch, The Nephilim are not of God's original plan for creation it would seem. They are all the fruit of rebellion. Enoch suggests they are the demons of esrth and not in a prison but many will not accept such information. Would God offer salvation to them??

I can't see demons being preached to, no.
But I can see hybrids being preached to IF they are not demons!

[kenrch]

Quote (Cubes @ July 07 2006,22:59)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2006,03:44) Hi cubes and kenrch, The Nephilim are not of God's original plan for creation it would seem. They are all the fruit of rebellion. Enoch suggests they are the demons of esrth and not in a prison but many will not accept such information. Would God offer salvation to them?? I can't see demons being preached to, no. But I can see hybrids being preached to IF they are not demons!

Thanks Cubes,

The more we study this it seems to point that the sons of God were men (just as David said). There is no mention of monsters coming out of those sons of God.

Genesis 6:5-7 confirms what you are saying. God repented that He made MAN. Nothing is said about a hybird.

As I told Nick there is a another “theroy”. They say that the sons of God were the decendents of Seth and the daughters of men were CANAANITES. Mixing the sons of Seth, [who took the place of Able] with the decendents of Cain.

Well the flood “destroyed” all flesh which would mean the sons of God ( the Sethites?) and also the Canaanites would have to been destroted. Seems (my idea) that Noah was a decended of Seth.

So the decendents of Seth came over with the ark. Since Noah was pure then the Canaanites would have been wiped out. I don't know about that either. Anyways the Canaanites are in scripture after the flood, which would have ment that one of Noah's daughter in laws were part Canaanite.

It doesn't fit for me. Maybe you see it differently and let me know what I don't see.

They site this scripture as proof that the sons of God were men.
Gen 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enosh. Then began men to call upon the name of Jehovah.

Here is part of the commentary:

Two Hebrew terms.
I. Nephilim; Hebrew “those who fall on” men; men of violence, robbers, tyrants; compare Gen_6:13, “the earth is filled with violence through them.” Applied to antediluvians (Gen_6:4). Distinct from the gibbowrim, “mighty men of old, men of renown,” the offspring of the intermarriage of the “sons of God” (the Sethites, Gen_4:26, margin” then men began to call themselves by the name of the Lord”; Deu_14:1-2; Psa_73:15; Pro_14:26; Hos_1:10; Rom_8:14) and the “daughters of men.” The Sethites, the church separated from the surrounding world lying in the wicked one, had been the salt of the earth; but when even they intermarried with the corrupted races around the salt lost its savor, there was no seasoning of the universal corruption; (compare Exo_34:16; Ezr_10:3-19; Neh_13:23-28; Deu_7:3; 1Ki_11:1-4;) a flood alone could sweep away the festering mass, out of which one godly seed alone, Noah, was saved.

The problem is I “thought” God didn't call a people for Himself until Abraham.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws

[Cubes]

Quote (kenrch @ July 08 2006,06:02)

Quote (Cubes @ July 07 2006,22:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2006,03:44) Hi cubes and kenrch, The Nephilim are not of God's original plan for creation it would seem. They are all the fruit of rebellion. Enoch suggests they are the demons of esrth and not in a prison but many will not accept such information. Would God offer salvation to them?? I can't see demons being preached to, no. But I can see hybrids being preached to IF they are not demons! Thanks Cubes, The more we study this it seems to point that the sons of God were men (just as David said). There is no mention of monsters coming out of those sons of God.  Genesis 6:5-7 confirms what you are saying.  God repented that He made MAN.  Nothing is said about a hybird. As I told Nick there is a another “theroy”.  They say that the sons of God were the decendents of Seth and the daughters of men were CANAANITES.  Mixing the sons of Seth, [who took the place of Able] with the decendents of Cain. Well the flood “destroyed” all flesh which would mean the sons of God ( the Sethites?) and also the Canaanites would have to been destroted.  Seems (my idea) that Noah was a decended of Seth. So the decendents of Seth came over with the ark. Since Noah was pure then the Canaanites would have been wiped out.  I don't know about that either.  Anyways the Canaanites are in scripture after the flood, which would have ment that one of Noah's daughter in laws were part Canaanite. It doesn't fit for me. Maybe you see it differently and let me know what I don't see. They site this scripture as proof that the sons of God were men. Gen 4:26  And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enosh. Then began men to call upon the name of Jehovah. Here is part of the commentary: Two Hebrew terms. I. Nephilim; Hebrew “those who fall on” men; men of violence, robbers, tyrants; compare Gen_6:13, “the earth is filled with violence through them.” Applied to antediluvians (Gen_6:4). Distinct from the gibbowrim, “mighty men of old, men of renown,” the offspring of the intermarriage of the “sons of God” (the Sethites, Gen_4:26, margin” then men began to call themselves by the name of the Lord”; Deu_14:1-2; Psa_73:15; Pro_14:26; Hos_1:10; Rom_8:14) and the “daughters of men.” The Sethites, the church separated from the surrounding world lying in the wicked one, had been the salt of the earth; but when even they intermarried with the corrupted races around the salt lost its savor, there was no seasoning of the universal corruption; (compare Exo_34:16; Ezr_10:3-19; Neh_13:23-28; Deu_7:3; 1Ki_11:1-4;) a flood alone could sweep away the festering mass, out of which one godly seed alone, Noah, was saved. The problem is I “thought” God didn't call a people for Himself until Abraham. Gen 26:5  Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws

Hi Ken:

We agree then that according to scripture, nothing was said about destroying the earth because of hybrids.  That's one off the back burner, bro Kenrch! Genesis 6:5-7.  

The next thing to look at is the SONS OF GOD.  According to the blb.org KJV English Concordance, here are the renditions of all the exact OT mentions of the “Sons of God”:

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

All are references to angels.  In the NT, all such references are to the redeemed that are born again by the Spirit of God.  Fascinating, is it not?

So, as far as I am concerned, Genesis 6:2, 4 refer to angels and the Seth theory does not pan out.

Secondly, Canaan is a grandson of Noah by way of Ham.  Noah didn't have any grandchildren until after the flood.

So Canaanites didn't exist at the time of the flood except potentially in the loins of Ham, and therefore could not have been wiped out then in the flood.  After the flood is another story.

I agree that God first called a people to himself through Abraham and his Seed.  Amen!  And yes, Noah is descended from Seth.  Genesis 5

SETH, Enos, CAINAN, Mahalaleel, Jared, ENOCH, Methuselah, Lamech, NOAH.

[NickHassan]

good stuff cubes and kenrch.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Cubes @ July 08 2006,02:13)

The next thing to look at is the SONS OF GOD.  According to the blb.org KJV English Concordance, here are the renditions of all the exact OT mentions of the “Sons of God”: Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown. Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? All are references to angels.  In the NT, all such references are to the redeemed that are born again by the Spirit of God.  Fascinating, is it not? So, as far as I am concerned, Genesis 6:2, 4 refer to angels and the Seth theory does not pan out. Secondly, Canaan is a grandson of Noah by way of Ham.  Noah didn't have any grandchildren until after the flood. So Canaanites didn't exist at the time of the flood except potentially in the loins of Ham, and therefore could not have been wiped out then in the flood.  After the flood is another story. I agree that God first called a people to himself through Abraham and his Seed.  Amen!  And yes, Noah is descended from Seth.  Genesis 5 SETH, Enos, CAINAN, Mahalaleel, Jared, ENOCH, Methuselah, Lamech, NOAH.

Hi cubes,
There are, of course references to the Israelites as “sons of God “too.
Such as
Deut 14.1
“You are the sons of the Lord your God; you shall not cut yourselves or shave your forehead for the sake of the dead..”

[Cubes]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2006,10:23)

Quote (Cubes @ July 08 2006,02:13)  The next thing to look at is the SONS OF GOD.  According to the blb.org KJV English Concordance, here are the renditions of all the exact OT mentions of the “Sons of God”: Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown. Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? All are references to angels.  In the NT, all such references are to the redeemed that are born again by the Spirit of God.  Fascinating, is it not? So, as far as I am concerned, Genesis 6:2, 4 refer to angels and the Seth theory does not pan out. Secondly, Canaan is a grandson of Noah by way of Ham.  Noah didn't have any grandchildren until after the flood. So Canaanites didn't exist at the time of the flood except potentially in the loins of Ham, and therefore could not have been wiped out then in the flood.  After the flood is another story. I agree that God first called a people to himself through Abraham and his Seed.  Amen!  And yes, Noah is descended from Seth.  Genesis 5 SETH, Enos, CAINAN, Mahalaleel, Jared, ENOCH, Methuselah, Lamech, NOAH. Hi cubes, There are, of course references to the Israelites as “sons of God “too. Such as Deut 14.1 “You are the sons of the Lord your God; you shall not cut yourselves or shave your forehead for the sake of the dead..”

Hi Nick:

Amen. The KJV most likely used a different set of words, eg.
children of God or as you have, sons of the Lord God…. and that's why it didn't register. Would you say that the wording attempts to differentiate between the spirit children of God and the Adamic children of God?

Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.

[NickHassan]

Hi cubes,
Yes I do. But it classically also shows the trintarian bias of the KJV.

[NickHassan]

Hi Mercy,
Did you see thie thread too?

[Mercy]

Hi,

Just noticed this thread. This subject really interests me because I believe that the Nephelim and the watchers have played a huge role in the history of man. Once armed with the knowledge of the book of enoch I realize that the new testament writers apparently felt the same.

I believe that the watchers who are now in gloomy chain of darkness and reserved for the day of judgement will one day be released apon the earth. Rev 9. I believe that the angel of the bottomless pit abbaddon / appolyon is Azazel who was inscribed “All Sin”. I believe Azazel is the man of sin, the wicked one, the son of perdition and the antichrist.

Revelation 17:8
8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

Revelation 9:11
11They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon.

The beast was, now is not, yet will come. When was he? Before the flood when the sons of God came into the daughters of men. Who was a leader that taught men sins and how to make war and decieved humans. Azazel was! I think he is released to decieve man once again and leads them to war against the rider on the white horse and the saints.

[kenrch]

No Monsters:

Gen 4:26  And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enosh. Then began men to call upon the name of Jehovah.
Luk 3:38  the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.  Jesus the Son of God a descedants of Seth.

Gen 6:4  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The sons of God were men, human men descedants  of Seth.  Seth the replacement of righteous Able.  
The daughters of men being the decendents of Cain the murderer of Able.  There is no mention of angelic beings having sex with humans.  God said He was going to destroy all flesh.  No hybirds, no half and halfs, and no monsters as stated in Enoch.  But just mighty MEN.

[seminarian]

Good Stuff here Nick & Cubes,

I've been debating with an author who seems to be trying to put a different spin on
what the son of Gods means.  I used the example of Christ's geneology in Luke where
Adam is also called the son of God.  Is he some diety?  Uh, no!

Cubes, you did a good job here listing references to angels:

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Nick, this was excellent:

There are, of course references to the Israelites as “sons of God “too.
Such as
Deut 14.1
“You are the sons of the Lord your God; you shall not cut yourselves or shave your forehead for the sake of the dead..”

It is important to let people know that the title, Son of God or sons of God DOES NOT imply diety for there is only one God, the Father.  What I am finding in these debates is that they can't win with scriptural proofs so they resort to labeling.  I've been called a unitarian, JW and finally today, an Arian!  I told the last guy who called me an Arian, “thank you” because secular history showed that
these were the MAJORITY of Christian believers at the time of Tertullian before the apostacy broke out.  Those who promoted the trinity were in the minority but with the might of the Roman Catholic Church, pushed this doctrine through as orthodox.

Great posts everybody, I'm off to Minister Certification Class….

Semmy

[NickHassan]

Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 02 2006,21:09)

No Monsters: Gen 4:26  And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enosh. Then began men to call upon the name of Jehovah. Luk 3:38  the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.  Jesus the Son of God a descedants of Seth. Gen 6:4  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. The sons of God were men, human men descedants  of Seth.  Seth the replacement of righteous Able.   The daughters of men being the decendents of Cain the murderer of Able.  There is no mention of angelic beings having sex with humans.  God said He was going to destroy all flesh.  No hybirds, no half and halfs, and no monsters as stated in Enoch.  But just mighty MEN.

Hi kenrch,
Who are the sons of God shown in Job 1,2 38?

[Author]

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