Nephilim

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2006,02:37)

How could the sons of God have sexually related with women to produce children unless they are different from the sexless angels spoken of by Jesus in Lk 20.35f? Archangels seem to appear as men on earth. Or were they just evilly clever?

Hi Nick,

Not sure what you mean by “sexless,” here:

Do you mean non-gender or simply that they are not sexual?
I ask because the scripture would suggest that God's angels have gender but are not sexual. Thus, those fallen ones could have interacted sexually with humans but for them it would be an abnormality to their kind.

What do you think?

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Zechariah 5:9 Then I raised my eyes and looked, and there were two women, coming with the wind in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between earth and heaven.
10 So I said to the angel who talked with me, “Where are they carrying the basket?”
11 And he said to me, “To build a house for it in the land of *Shinar; when it is ready, the basket will be set there on its base.”

June 25, 2006 at 7:44 pm#20653

Participant

Hi cubes,
I think ordinary messengers are sexless from the verse in Luke, though when seen on earth they often seem to be mistaken for men and women. Archangels, princes, watchers or sons of God may have the ability to father children but since all them are a higher order of creation again their abilities may be totally beyond our understanding.

June 25, 2006 at 8:09 pm#20657

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2006,12:56)

Hi david,
Gen 6.4
” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came into the the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown”
It seesms like the angels who sinned, the Sons of God [?archangels,princes,elders], who deliberately abandoned their appointed domain to mix with man relating sexually with the women, produced the Nephilim beings based on this verse alone. But I may be wrong.

Hi Nick:

That is my understanding too.

June 25, 2006 at 8:15 pm#20658

Participant

Quote (david @ June 22 2006,12:38)

OK, other than what I said, and the couple pages of Soxan and Nick debating whether Soxan's “pictures” of Nephilim were real, there's not a lot on here regarding Nephilim. And there's very few voices. What do others think?

What are the Nepilim?

Hi Dave:

“Nephilim” is not in the KJV so excuse me if I use the word giants or Anakims, the sons of Anak. I was left with the understanding upon reading scripture that these were the offspring of fallen angels and women.

Has this no bearing on why Paul says that godly women are to cover their heads during prayer due to the angels?

June 25, 2006 at 9:29 pm#20661

Participant

Quote (Cubes @ June 26 2006,02:15)

Quote (david @ June 22 2006,12:38)

What are the Nepilim?

Hi Dave:

Has this no bearing on why Paul says that godly women are to cover their heads during prayer due to the angels?

Hi All:

1. Man is the glory of God. For this reason when praying or prophesying his head should be uncovered. This seems to identify him as a man and also glorifies God in the process.

2. A similar thing for a woman with lovely hair/locks dishonors her head: her husband and if unmarried, Christ. It also appears to attract negative angelic attention. And possibly leave the woman uncovered for attacks since she has no recognized authority over her head.

Act 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

3. Thus, it seems to me a woman may uncover her head when praying or prophesying so long as she is shaven, giving her the appearance of a man (which then reverts to point #1, meaning she has no male/man authority over her head and this shave should also discourage any angelic attention).

I believe, however, that Paul uses this NOT to encourage but to discourage women from considering the possibility of praying & prophesying uncovered:
1Cr 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? …15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is GIVEN HER for a covering.

Finally, It would seem to me that praying and prophesying has to do with spiritual discourse and interaction and he “makes his angels spirits,” so perhaps there is some connection there during those times.

These are my insights so far.

1 Corinthians 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. 6 For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. 10 For this reason the woman ought to have a (power) symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

June 25, 2006 at 9:46 pm#20662

Participant

Hi cubes,
Man comes from the breath of God into the soil of the earth-he is derived from and directly reflects an aspect of the being of God.
Woman comes from the rib of the man-she is indirectly derived from and reflects an aspect of God but is directly derived from and reflects the man.

June 25, 2006 at 9:50 pm#20663

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2006,20:23)

Hi kenrch,
Continue to attack me if you must as I am used to it, and it does not bother me, though it makes me sad that you need to do so and must lose focus on what we are here for to do so.
Continue to attack scripture if you are so daring and brave.

But do not attack me because of what scripture says.
I only show it to you.

June 25, 2006 at 10:09 pm#20667

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ June 25 2006,12:41)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2006,19:17)

Hi kenrch.
Fair enough.
That is what I wrote.

But note I used the words “seems” and “suggesting”

These indicate my observations upon which I am pondering and have yet to reach any final conclusions.

So let us hear your view of that verse.

Your “suggestions” “seems” to go against scripture

Hi Ken:

You have a point, but so does Nick, so as he suggested, there has to be a way of reconciling the scriptures.

PRE-FLOOD

Gen 6:4 There were GIANTS in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

POST-FLOOD
Num 13:33 And there we saw the GIANTS, the sons of Anak, [which come] of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Deu 2:11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims.

Deu 2:20 (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;

Deu 3:11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the REMNANT OF GIANTS; behold, his bedstead [was] a bedstead of iron; [is] it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits [was] the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

Deu 9:2 A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and [of whom] thou hast heard [say], Who can stand before the children of Anak!

Clearly, at least one giant survived the flood.

Have we considered Noah himself or his wife or daughters inlaw? Who is to say they were not genetically of the giants? Were ALL Nephilim/Giants evil and doomed?
Just wondering?

June 25, 2006 at 10:13 pm#20669

Participant

Quote (t8 @ June 24 2006,06:49)

Demons can inhabit any kind of body. Large bodies make no difference. It is the heart that determines what kind of spirit lives inside.

True that, t8. Some of the gentlest souls I have met are what one might consider giants.

June 25, 2006 at 10:15 pm#20671

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2006,03:46)

Amen

June 25, 2006 at 10:39 pm#20677

Participant

In light of the evidence, I would have to consider that a remnant of the Giants was part of the eight of Noah that survived on the Ark, barring any scriptures to the contrary to show that all descendants of the children of such fallen angels were wiped out. Or else it happened again with fallen angels taking the daughters of men. There is nothing new under the sun and incredible wickedness still prevail because apparently it survived in the survivors on the Ark, as did righteousness.

June 26, 2006 at 1:11 am#20719

Participant

Genesis 6:4; Numbers 13:33

05303 = Giants, N@PHIYL; eg the Sons of Anak (Anakims).

Genesis 14:5, Deu 2:11, Deu 2:20,
07497 = Giants, RAPHA or Rephaims, compared to or aka Emims by the Moabites, and Zamzummims by the Ammonites.

The Emims [0368] and Zamzummims [02157] are compared to Anakims [06062]:

Deu 2:10 The Emim had dwelt there in times past, a people as great and numerous and tall as the Anakim. 11 They were also regarded as *giants, like the Anakim, but the Moabites call them Emim.

Deu 2:20 (That was also regarded as a land of *giants; giants formerly dwelt there. But the Ammonites call them Zamzummim, 21 a people as great and numerous and tall as the Anakim.

June 26, 2006 at 1:38 am#20723

Participant

Well done cubes.

June 26, 2006 at 3:35 am#20731

Participant

Quote (Cubes @ June 25 2006,23:09)

Quote (kenrch @ June 25 2006,12:41)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2006,19:17)

Hi kenrch.
Fair enough.
That is what I wrote.

But note I used the words “seems” and “suggesting”

These indicate my observations upon which I am pondering and have yet to reach any final conclusions.

So let us hear your view of that verse.

Your “suggestions” “seems” to go against scripture

Hi Ken:

You have a point, but so does Nick, so as he suggested, there has to be a way of reconciling the scriptures.

PRE-FLOOD

Gen 6:4 There were GIANTS in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

POST-FLOOD
Num 13:33 And there we saw the GIANTS, the sons of Anak, [which come] of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Deu 2:11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims.

Deu 2:20 (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;

Deu 9:2 A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and [of whom] thou hast heard [say], Who can stand before the children of Anak!

Clearly, at least one giant survived the flood.

Have we considered Noah himself or his wife or daughters inlaw? Who is to say they were not genetically of the giants? Were ALL Nephilim/Giants evil and doomed?
Just wondering?

Hi cubes,

This happens often, scripture seems to contradict in the bible.

It has been my experience that one cannot get from A to C without going through B. As in this case we are missing B.

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, and perfect in his generations: Noah walked with God.

This scripture tells me that Noah's blood line was pure human.

I believe that the Nephilim were mixed with every human BUT Noah and his family.

The word clearly says that their were only eight persons who survived none of which were Nephilims (1Pet.3:20).

Since this Word cannot be disputed (as they are clear). Then as I said we don't have for the time being anyway to find out who those people are. It could be almost anything, BUT the Nephilim. To assume anything else is contrary to the word of God.
They have giants today does that mean they came from the Nephilims? In fact according to the WORD of God they DID NOT come from the Nephilim.
All this is causing confusion:
1Co 14:33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

This has happened to me all throughout my walk with the Lord and everytime i would wait, put it on the back burner. And sometime a year might pass by when I completely forget about it, the Lord reveals the truth. Then the puzzel would come together. But rely on anything but the word of God and THINK that you have figured it out and place it in the puzzel then you will not get the correct picture. AND will go in the wrong direction only to find the truth latter, wasting time that could have been spent learning more truth. Trying to figure out the Word that God doesn't want you to have now leads to ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Surely this is Satan's work to confuse and misslead the children of God. Have faith in God and when the Father wants us to know we will know the truth and not someone's idea of what happened to the Nephilims.

Cubes it's just this simple:
1Co 2:14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.

Col 2:8 Take heed lest there shall be any one that maketh spoil of you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ:

June 26, 2006 at 3:42 am#20732

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2006,20:23)

Ok Nick tell me how did the Nephilim survive?

Somehow they (Nephilims) must have snuck aboard the ark and for forty days Noah “AND GOD” didn't realize they were in the ark. When the ark landed they snuck off then repopulated the earth with their off spring. That's how Goliath got to be a philistine.
Either that or they tread water for forty days and nights.

June 26, 2006 at 4:08 am#20735

Participant

Hi kenrch,
Do you say that the scripture in 1 Chron 20 is a lie and a complete falsehood that has been added to the Word of God by some agent of Satan?
If not and you believe the Word of God is true you must examine it.
If you want to understand the truth you have to look at the verse itself and try to read it along with the scriptures about the flood.

June 26, 2006 at 1:13 pm#20743

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2006,05:08)

Nick is it God's will for His child to prove Him right! Of course I can say the same for Genesis 6:9-13. Do you say that Genesis 6 is a lie? What good did that do. You thrive on controversy which is NOT the Father's way of peace and Love.
You won't get from God what He doesn't want to give. You sir (and you SHOULD know this) can do NOTHING!

If you gave your life to Christ then you SHOULD let Christ live your Life.

You think that Christ wants confusion and controversy then go right ahead. Obviously you have taken things into your own hands and tried to “OUT SMART” God and has “LOST” the Holy Spirit, being full of pride thinking YOU have the answer by serching for answers. You won't find anything of God by man's method instead of depending on the HOLY SPIRIT.

As I explained (months ago) I had that problem before but repented. You can't repent if you are never wrong. I have given you my testimony that the mistake I had done was very very similar to your problem. The differance, I admited I was wrong and repented, Thank you Jesus for allowing me to do so!

You do what you WANT but I warn you If you don't repent and STOP decieving children along with yourself then YOU WILL EXPERANCE THE WRATH OF GOD! It may not be right away, who knows the mind of God!

Mat 18:6 But whoso shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the “things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God”.

If the Spirit of God wanted you to know their would be no strife. The knowledge of the truth would flow and there would be absolutely no doubt as to the answer. It has been a very long time since you have experienced the truth of the Holy Spirit. Let me remind you it is wonderful! Any visit from the Spirit is unforgetable as any child of God can attest.

There is one thing I learned when I fell as you have, that is to be patient and not in a hurry for anything. This is only one way Satan works. He will get you in a rush then make the wrong suggestions that sound right.

Repent Nick. You have gone so far that you will need to fast and seek God may be for days. Amen

June 26, 2006 at 7:59 pm#20757

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ June 26 2006,09:35)

Quote (Cubes @ June 25 2006,23:09)

Quote (kenrch @ June 25 2006,12:41)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2006,19:17)

Hi kenrch.
Fair enough.
That is what I wrote.

But note I used the words “seems” and “suggesting”

These indicate my observations upon which I am pondering and have yet to reach any final conclusions.

So let us hear your view of that verse.

Your “suggestions” “seems” to go against scripture

Hi Ken:

You have a point, but so does Nick, so as he suggested, there has to be a way of reconciling the scriptures.

PRE-FLOOD

POST-FLOOD
Num 13:33 And there we saw the GIANTS, the sons of Anak, [which come] of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Deu 2:11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims.

Deu 2:20 (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;

Deu 9:2 A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and [of whom] thou hast heard [say], Who can stand before the children of Anak!

Clearly, at least one giant survived the flood.

Have we considered Noah himself or his wife or daughters inlaw? Who is to say they were not genetically of the giants? Were ALL Nephilim/Giants evil and doomed?
Just wondering?

Hi cubes,

This happens often, scripture seems to contradict in the bible.

It has been my experience that one cannot get from A to C without going through B. As in this case we are missing B.

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, and perfect in his generations: Noah walked with God.

This scripture tells me that Noah's blood line was pure human.

I believe that the Nephilim were mixed with every human BUT Noah and his family.

The word clearly says that their were only eight persons who survived none of which were Nephilims (1Pet.3:20).

Col 2:8 Take heed lest there shall be any one that maketh spoil of you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ:

Hi Ken:

Thanks for your post.
I like back burners, though I am not always as patient as I ought to be.

My Nephilim on board the Ark theory doesn't pan out so we can toss that out of the window, for the simple reason that the entire human population arises from Noah and it would therefore mean that all are genetically related to the infamous sons of God, which is not scriptural, so I agree with you there.

But the fact remains that at least one thriving and populous (many) nation of Nephilims remained long after the flood. Anakims were encountered by the children of Israel during the Exodus (Numbers 13). Moses, Joshua, Caleb and all the children of Israel had to fight them to expel them. Caleb expelled them of his mountain. The exodus took place way after Abraham who was way after Noah.

The Anakims appeared to be in the territories of Ham, hence Canaan and the promised land.

The Moabites and Ammonites are related to Lot and subsequently to Lot's uncle Abraham of the lineage of Shem. They were familiar with Anakim (Nephilim) types of giants in their regions. More directly, Ruth, a matriach of the Christ is a Moabite. I mention this just to offset the fact that I mentioned Ham and to say that with God, there is no partiality. He approves of whoever does righteousness and is displeased with the wicked, regardless of lineage.

So logically it had to have happened again: Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, WHEN the sons of God CAME in unto the daughters of men, AND THEY BARE [children] TO THEM,…

“In those days”: what days? Before the flood.

“and also after that”: After what? Obviously after the flood.

June 26, 2006 at 8:17 pm#20758