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This is my view on the end times and the “Millennium”.
I would like to post uninterrupted.
Thank you.
Amillenialism.
I believe, like Amillenialists do, that Jesus is in Heaven with the Saints, and that Satan has been bound.
So we are thus in the Millenium now.
I do not believe that the book of Revelations is in any type of Chronological order, but that things are retold, or recapitulated, from different points of view.
The book is written in symbolic form, so the thousand years could easily mean 'A very long time'.
Satan the Devil has been limited in power for thousands of years now — which is the only way that the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of God could have been taken around the world in fulfillment of prophecy, free of Satan's influence to deceive the whole world.
Evil continues to exist – not only to exist, but to grow significantly worse as time goes on.
Jesus said that his kingdom is not of this world.
He said that he goes to prepare a place (in heaven)Soon, if not already, Satan will be let lose to deceive the whole world one final time.
When Jesus comes, this will be the Day of the Lord. One day is one day.
God destroyed the earth with water, and God will again destroy the earth with fire, only this time it will be different. It will be permanent. There will be no more tears, no more suffering, no more sadness, for the former things would have passed away.
The heavenly Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the cleansed earth.
—————————————–
Satan and Death were defeated at Christ's resurrection.
“For as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. Hebrews 2:14.
Rev.20:1-3.
“Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain.
And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.THE CROSS AND THE DEVIL
St Origen – Early Church“1. The Demons as the princes of this world laid a snare to Jesus Christ, and crucified Him, not knowing who was concealed within Him.
When these, therefore, and other similar princes of this world, each having his own individual wisdom and formulating his own doctrines and peculiar opinions, saw our Lord and Savior promising and proclaiming that he had come into the world for the purpose of destroying all the doctrines, whatever they might be, of the “knowledge falsely so called” (1 Tim. 6:20), they immediately laid snares for Him, not knowing who was concealed within Him. For “the kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against His Christ” (Ps. 2:2)… They crucified the Lord of glory .’
2. Through the cross the demons lost their dominion.
He began on the cross by chaining the demon, and, having entered into his house, that is to say, into Hell, and having ascended from there into the heights, He led away captives, that is to say, those who rose again and entered with Him into the heavenly Jerusalem.”
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics….11.html
Jesus had to first bind Satan (the strongman).
“How can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.” Matthew 12:29.“
And then was prophecy fulfilled regarding the spreading of the Gospel abroad to the whole world.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.” Matthew 24:14.How else could this have happened without the deceiver of the whole world being bound first.
To be continued.
So, Satan has defeated by Jesus' victory on the cross.
The chain is symbolic of God's restraining power.
People will say the opposite. They will say that Satan is not bound because evil still exists, and Satan is to blame, and yes, evil still exists, and will continue up until the end. But Jude warns us:
Jude 1.
[3] “Beloved, being very eager to write to you of our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
(Some will say that there is a FUTURE time where people will learn truth and that it is not today – however, Jude here says that the faith was ONCE FOR ALL delivered, and Jesus said that the day of salvation is NOW. No second chance like some teach)
[4] For admission has been secretly gained by some who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly persons who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
[5] Now I desire to remind you, though you were once for all fully informed, that he who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
[6] And the angels that did not keep their own position but left their proper dwelling have been kept by him in eternal chains in the nether gloom until the judgment of the great day;
[7] just as Sodom and Gomor'rah and the surrounding cities, which likewise acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
[8] Yet in like manner these men in their dreamings defile the flesh, reject authority, and revile the glorious ones.
[9] But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”
[10] But these men revile whatever they do not understand….(There is my point)
… and by those things that they know by instinct as irrational animals do, they are destroyed.
[11] Woe to them! For they walk in the way of Cain, and abandon themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam's error, and perish in Korah's rebellion.
[12] These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they boldly carouse together, looking after themselves; waterless clouds, carried along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted;
[13] wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars for whom the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved for ever.
[14] It was of these also that Enoch in the seventh generation from Adam prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads,
[15] to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
[16] These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own passions, loud-mouthed boasters, flattering people to gain advantage.
[17] But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
[18] they said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.”
[19] It is these who set up divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.
[20] But you, beloved, build yourselves up on your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Spirit;
[21] keep yourselves in the love of God; wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.(Wait for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ into eternal life. Not a temporary millenium where people live, grow old, and die, and where evil still exists)
[23] And convince some, who doubt; save some, by snatching them out of the fire; on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
[24] Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing,
[25] to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and for ever. Amen.”Jesus went to heaven.
He said that His kingdom is not of this world but that He goes to prepare a place which will eventually come down onto the new earth. This is the heavenly Jerusalem.
Matt 26:29
“I tell you I shall not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.”John 18:36
“Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingdom is not from the world.“John 14:2-4
“In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
And you know the way where I am going.“—————
We are supposed to be His priests on earth:
Revelations 1:4-5
“Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,
and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.”“To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”I John, your brother, who share with you in Jesus the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance.”
Revelations 20:4-6
“Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.As you can see in the above verses, the book of Revelations begins with chapter one stating that they had already been made “A kingdom – priests to God the Father”….. and then further into the book of Revelation in chapter 20 it again states regarding the thousand years that they shall be “priests of God and of Christ for a thousand years”.
Sometime future or right now?
BTW, I am only doing this thread because two people said, Quote:
Quote Instead you hold on to your one verse here and there And..
Quote Btw, there are one or two verses YOU believe we are “ignoring” YET it is actually YOU who is doing the ignoring of scriptures…and not just one or two but HUNDREDS of scriptures!! One or two v's hundreds!!
So I do not expect anyone to read all of this, but i am only proving that i do not ignore scriptures. As you will see, most of what I post is scriptures, with little of my view or explanation.
Instead, I see most of the Old Testament fulfilled, and also I see most of Revelations fulfilled.
And I believe that we are possibly up to Revelations chapter 20, verse 7, at this moment in time.
So, to continued on…..
Jesus sowed the good seed which grew and multiplied.
Bad seed was also sown.
Matthew 13:24-30 and 36-39,
“The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field;
but while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also.
And the servants of the householder came and said to him, `Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then has it weeds?'
He said to them, `An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, `Then do you want us to go and gather them?'
But he said, `No; lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.'”“Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.”
He answered, “He who sows the good seed is the Son of man;
the field is the world, and the good seed means the sons of the kingdom; the weeds are the sons of the evil one,
and the enemy who sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels”Does He who sowed the bad seed still have to be in full power, in order for that seed to also grow and multiply?
If that were true then how could the whole world come to know YHVH and the Son, who the whole world previously never knew?
The world was no longer being deceived and good seed had been sown.
Many more verses but these are enough for this point.
God's worshipers are in heaven and on earth.
In Rev 11, The Angel says to measure the temple and all that worship there and the measurements are given but John is told not to measure the court outside the temple because it is given over to the “nations”.
Now, what is this Temple?
The answer is there. Go back to what Paul said, and also what Jesus said regarding the temple – the temple of his body.
“Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own” 1Cor 6:19.
“Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?
If any one destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and that temple you are.” 1Cor 3:17.“What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will live in them and move among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people” 2Cor 6:16.So, if God's people make up the temple and are the body of the head which is Christ then the measurements of the temple would consist of the people who make up that temple, and outside of the temple of true worshipers are the figurative nations.
Now remember too that Jesus said that the wheat would grow with the chaff until the harvest so that fits in with the whole picture.
So, go to Revelations chapter 21:2 and you will see that the New Jerusalem COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN to the NEW earth (rev 21:1) which is cleansed with fire and it has no need of a temple because it's temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.
Nothing to do with an earthly temple of stone or an earthly Jerusalem as this is all on the new earth and the temple comes down from heaven and is not made of hands.
Just because Satan has been bound does not mean that evil ceases to exist. Evil will continue until the end.
People have been persecuted from the beginning and still are till this day in many countries, HOWEVER, when Satan is let loose from his binding toward the end, he will GATHER people, from all over the world, to bring them to the great battle, he will influence the mind of LEADERS, and media etc, who will then influence the mind of the PEOPLE.
Revelations 17:8.
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, becausehe once was, now is not, and yet will come.
Revelations 20:7-8
'And when the thousand years are ended (thousand meaning a very long time – the thousands of years in which the nations were not being deceived), then Satan will be loosed from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea (Now, don't you think this fits better with today? We are a world of people – ready to fight – our numbers are huge – as huge as the figurative sand of the sea – never before has the world been so ready to BATTLE.)
And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
To be continued..
And then is the judgment.
“I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire this is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
God's Kingdom will be final, and will be eternal. Just as his return will not be in secret – Every eye will see the coming of the Son of man. How? Because He will be so bright.
'The Day of the Lord' and the return of Jesus Christ are the same day.
On that day, the wicked will be ashes.
Jesus said that on that day, he will tell those on his right to come with him to the ETERNAL kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world.The Eternal Kingdom:
2Pet 1:11:
“For so an entrance shall be ministered to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”Daniel 2:44:
“And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever.“Daniel 7:18
“But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, for ever and ever.”Daniel 7:27
'And the kingdom and the dominion
and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven
shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;
their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,
and all dominions shall serve and obey them.'Isaiah 9:7
'Of the increase of his government and of peace
there will be no end,
upon the throne of David, and over his kingdom,
to establish it, and to uphold it
with justice and with righteousness
from this time forth and for evermore.'Revelation 11:15
Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever.”Matthew 25:31-34
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.
Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.“So, the gospel of the kingdom has been preached throughout the world as a testimony to all of the nations, and soon (or now) Satan will be let lose to deceive the nations once more, and then the end will come.
Jesus is at the right hand of the Father whilst waiting for the harvest.
I believe that it is important to know these things because otherwise we could be deceived, especially if there is to be a false messiah (false return).
We should know how things will happen and we should take heed of Jesus words:
“If they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”That is why I do not believe in a temporary earthly kingdom where one like the son of God will sit on an earthly throne BEFORE the new Jerusalem comes down out of heaven and onto the new earth, because, by believing this, we are vulnerable, nay, definitely will be liable to believe that the false return, the so called antichrist will be Jesus when it will not be. Jesus is NOW ruling in our hearts and minds as we worship God in spirit and in truth, and His kingdom is not of this world, but will come down from heaven onto the new earth. For the former things would have passed away.
More to come…..
Now I most likely have some things wrong. As I said, I am only proving a point – that i have not ignored scriptures.
I have plenty more scripture to show – but I do not expect anyone to read all of this.
Please give me a few days because I would like to go through 2nd Thessalonians, and a few other chapters, Thank you.
Now the other views will usually go back to the Old Testament, and say that the “millenium” cannot be now, because Jesus' feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, etc, and this has not happened, they say.
So, I went through Zechariah 14 after asking for help with it in prayer, and this is what I saw…
Old Testament.
Zech 13:6-7.
And if one asks him, `What are these wounds on your back?' he will say, `The wounds I received in the house of my friends.'” “Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me,” says the LORD of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, that the sheep may be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.
In the whole land, says the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, `They are my people'; and they will say, `The LORD is my God.'”
New Testament, fulfilled…..
Jesus' first coming.
Next Chapter follows on…..
Old Testament.
Zech.14:1-3.
Behold, a day of the LORD is coming, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in the midst of you. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.
New Testament, fulfilled….
Matt 24
“You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down………So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house; and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle. And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath. ”
Jerusalem 70AD.
Old Testament.
Zech 14:4-5.
On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives which lies before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley; so that one half of the Mount shall withdraw northward, and the other half southward. And the valley of my mountains shall be stopped up, for the valley of the mountains shall touch the side of it; and you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzzi'ah king of Judah. Then the LORD your God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
New Testament, fulfilled…..
John 8:1'Jesus, however, went to the Mount of Olives.'
Matt 21:1
'When they came near Jerusalem and had reached Bethphage on the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples on ahead and told them, “Go into the village ahead of you. At once you will find a donkey tied up and a colt with it. Untie them, and bring them to me.'
Matt 24:3
'While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately and said, “Tell us, when will these things take place, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Luke 22: 39
'Then he left and went to the Mount of Olives, as usual. The disciples went with him.'
Old Testament.
Zechariah 14:6-7.
On that day there shall be neither cold nor frost. And there shall be continuous day (it is known to the LORD), not day and not night, for at evening time there shall be light.
New Testament, fulfilled…..
John 8:12
'Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. The one who follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.“
John 12:46
'I've come into the world as light, so that everyone who believes in me won't remain in the darkness'
And many many more verses.
Old testament.
Zechariah 14:8-9
On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea; it shall continue in summer as in winter.
Fulfilled in the New Testament…..
John 4:10
'Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who is saying to you, 'Please give me a drink,' you would have been the one to ask him, and he would have given you living water.“
John 4:13
'Jesus answered her, “Everyone who drinks this water will become thirsty again. But whoever drinks the water that I will give him will never become thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become a well of water for him, springing up to eternal life.”
John 7:38
'The one who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, will have rivers of living water flowing from his heart.”
Old Testament.
Zech 14:9-10
And the LORD will become king over all the earth; on that day the LORD will be one and his name one.
New Testament, fulfilled…..
Matt 21:37
'Jesus asked them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures,‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. This was the Lord’s doing, and it is amazing in our eyes.’ That is why I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce fruit for it.
John 3:16
“For this is how God loved the world: He gave his only begotten Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life.”
Acts 13:47
'I have made you a light to the gentiles
to be the means of salvation to the very ends of the earth.'”Old Testament.
Zech 14:10-11.
The whole land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. But Jerusalem shall remain aloft upon its site from the Gate of Benjamin to the place of the former gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Han'anel to the king's wine presses. And it shall be inhabited, for there shall be no more curse; Jerusalem shall dwell in security.
Fulfilled in the New Testament…..
John 4:21
“Believe me, dear lady, the hour is coming when you Samaritans will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You don’t know what you’re worshiping. We Jews know what we’re worshiping, because salvation comes from the Jews. Yet the time is coming, and is now here, when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Indeed, the Father is looking for people like that to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Gal 4;25
'Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery along with her children. But the heavenly Jerusalem is the free woman, and she is our spiritual mother.'
Hebrews 12:22
'Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem, to tens of thousands of angels joyfully gathered together, to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, to a judge who is the God of all, to the spirits of righteous people who have been made perfect, to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better message than Abel’s.'
To be continued………
2besee,April wrote:[/quote]
Hi 2Besee,Sorry, but I have limited computer time and don't when i'll get another chance to post coz my computer is down atm, so i'd like to address your points one at a time, since you have quoted some of my words…I think that's fair no?
I ask that we keep things civil from now on between us?
I can see that we are both fiery personality types, so lets try to rise above if we can yes?
Lets drop all the back and forth accusations can we?I will break down your statements where relevant, like below…you bought up two points in one statement, here is take 1…I'll try keep them brief so it doesn't get too long…
Point 1a
Quote I believe, like Amillenialists do, that Jesus is in Heaven with the Saints, Yes I agree Jesus is in heaven, but i'm not sure who you mean by “His saints”?
If you mean the Apostles, I would agree because of certain scriptures which reveal this, but if you mean believers in general I would have to disagree because of scriptures like this one:1 Corinthians 15:51-52 >Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
So the dead do not get resurrected until this event takes place…it says ALL get changed (resurrected) at His 2nd coming, so then, it is impossible for any other saints to be in heaven atm except the Apostles who are a type of firstfruits, Paul could not be any clearer on this matter.
Also it says the dead will be raised incorruptible, meaning that they are ACCEPTED by Christ, therefore they MUST be Christians who have died since Christs first coming into the world…and since they are DEAD, then they in no wise can be in heaven with Jesus…because they were DEAD.Now we find another scripture that speaks of a trumpet being sounded to usher in Christ's return like in Matthew below:
Matthew 24:31 >And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Notice both Corinthians & Matthew speak of the 2nd coming/resurrection/gathering occurring at the sound of a trumpet?
And revelations…
Revelation 11:15 >And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
This of course is the culmination of the wrath of God found in the 7 trumpets, the 7th indicating in that great DAY of wrath when Christ returns and Babylon the Great is destroyed…in ONE Day…the other 6 trumps being the build up to this MAIN event.
So i'd have to disagree that the saints are with Christ in heaven…that's IF you mean ALL the saints that is?
Thanks 2Besee,
to be continued…2besee,April wrote:[/quote]
Continued…Point 1b
Quote and that Satan has been bound I have to disagree that Satan has been bound.
I remember you saying that “how could the gospels be spread if Satan was loose”?
To that I would reply with this:2 Corinthians 11:14-15 >And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
As you'd know, The light came into the world with Jesus' first coming.
Thus, for Satan to be showing himself as an angel of light, he is therefore imitating that very same light…that is, Christ…Christianity…Satan is & has been infiltrating Christianity all this time for the purpose of divide and conquer…a very ancient & successful war doctrine to weaken the enemy from within…notice the word war?
If Satan were locked up, it would be pointless to masquerade as an angel of light, to pretend to be of Christ.
Who would he be hoping to trick?
Christ's Angels?
God?
Who else could he be masquerading for?
He'd be helpless in prison…otherwise, what's the point of prison if it fails to stop him from influencing those on the outside?One only hides his identity when in the presence of those he is fooling, not when he is out of sight (locked up), so for Satan to be masquerading as an angel of light, he is obviously still loose in the world even now.
1 Peter 5:8 >Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Now this was written some time after Christ's crucifixion, and it is clear beyond doubt that Peter is warning the Christians about Satan who is very clearly free to roam the world seeking whom he can devour…walking about is not locked up now is it, it is the opposite!!
Revelation 12:17 >And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
In this chapter we learn that Satan was banished from heaven and cast to the earth.
No mention of being locked up at, instead we are told that Satan went to make war with those who keep the commandments of God.
And who keeps the commandments of God?
Well, Christians do.
And what was Satan showing himself to be again?
That's right, an angel of light…Christian!!
So Satan is warring against Christians.Not only that, but Satan went to make war…went…meaning, going forth…
but if he is locked up, exactly HOW can he go forth?
Go forth to where?
The other side of his otherwise empty cell room?
To wage war against his prison walls?
To devour his “prison cell”?
NO, Satan is free atm beyond doubt.He is after all the king of this world kingdom, Satan only gets locked up when his kingdom is brought to an end.
And that only happens at Christ's 2nd coming…on that great day.There are many other points i'd like to make, but this should be sufficient for now.
Thanks 2Besee,
To be continued…Hi Devolution.
Thank you, but can you wait until i have finished? I will take a while…….. When you see in red “Finished” – then you can post away! And you can copy and repost the above points again then, if you would like to. Thanks.I still want to cover 2nd Thessalonians 2, and 2 Peter 3.
There is more that I know but I do not feel to post it here.Quote (Devolution @ April 08 2013,16:57) 2besee,April wrote:[/quote]
Continued…Point 1b
Quote and that Satan has been bound I have to disagree that Satan has been bound.
I remember you saying that “how could the gospels be spread if Satan was loose”?
To that I would reply with this:2 Corinthians 11:14-15 >And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
As you'd know, The light came into the world with Jesus' first coming.
Thus, for Satan to be showing himself as an angel of light, he is therefore imitating that very same light…that is, Christ…Christianity…Satan is & has been infiltrating Christianity all this time for the purpose of divide and conquer…a very ancient & successful war doctrine to weaken the enemy from within…notice the word war?
If Satan were locked up, it would be pointless to masquerade as an angel of light, to pretend to be of Christ.
Who would he be hoping to trick?
Christ's Angels?
God?
Who else could he be masquerading for?
He'd be helpless in prison…otherwise, what's the point of prison if it fails to stop him from influencing those on the outside?One only hides his identity when in the presence of those he is fooling, not when he is out of sight (locked up), so for Satan to be masquerading as an angel of light, he is obviously still loose in the world even now.
1 Peter 5:8 >Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Now this was written some time after Christ's crucifixion, and it is clear beyond doubt that Peter is warning the Christians about Satan who is very clearly free to roam the world seeking whom he can devour…walking about is not locked up now is it, it is the opposite!!
Revelation 12:17 >And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
In this chapter we learn that Satan was banished from heaven and cast to the earth.
No mention of being locked up at, instead we are told that Satan went to make war with those who keep the commandments of God.
And who keeps the commandments of God?
Well, Christians do.
And what was Satan showing himself to be again?
That's right, an angel of light…Christian!!
So Satan is warring against Christians.Not only that, but Satan went to make war…went…meaning, going forth…
but if he is locked up, exactly HOW can he go forth?
Go forth to where?
The other side of his otherwise empty cell room?
To wage war against his prison walls?
To devour his “prison cell”?
NO, Satan is free atm beyond doubt.He is after all the king of this world kingdom, Satan only gets locked up when his kingdom is brought to an end.
And that only happens at Christ's 2nd coming…on that great day.There are many other points i'd like to make, but this should be sufficient for now.
Thanks 2Besee,
To be continued…
Devo.Evidence accepted,good evidence.
greetings.
wakeup.
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