My thoughts on the godhead

Participant

lol Dude your still awake!! Haha, funny

June 18, 2010 at 8:38 am#197917

Participant

Now with my son, always existing within my being. He did not come into the world until his conception. He always existed within me, and around the time he was conceived, he was manifested as sperm within my genitalia.

Upon his birth, he is the express image of myself. Not me, but everything that I am is in him.
I believe this because, my father left when I was 4 years of age, but yet at age 21 my mother tells me I act just like him and have the same mannerisms. I've spoken to him on the phone and can't help but know I am just like him.

so unlike a video, picture, or portrait of me which reveals my image but the images itself are inanimate.

My son is a walking, talking image of myself that is actually (truly) alive.
———————-

In the same light, if Jesus is YHVH only begotten son…Jesus would have always existed within YHVH
Only coming INTO participation on the day of his conception.

If nothing was made, including time, before creation, then Jesus' conception predated creation.

In a time before time, the human brain cannot comprehend his conception, but for all we know he always existed and always already was conceived

However, post conception (assuming that Jesus wasn't already always there) everything was made through and for him. And it this time is when YHVH became a Father and Jesus a Son.

In the same light I wasn't a father until my son was born.

Jesus then, having the glory of The Son of God participating in all things The Father does, humbled himself and manifested as a human being onto the earth.

June 18, 2010 at 8:43 am#197920

Participant

This was done to reconcile mankind back to God. The reason being, that God loves us so much, he doesn't see us as creation, he sees us as kin.

So Jesus humbled himself to be a part of the creation he loved. Being fully god, yet fully man.

He was tempted, suffered, and died as man.

but was obedient like God, in which no sin was found in him.

So that if the righteous can be slain and punished, the wicked can be saved and rewarded.

So when YHVH saw Jesus on the cross, he saw us dying for our sins.
And when he looks at us, he sees his Son Jesus Christ.

Jesus participated as our scapegoat, for breaking law requires condemnation, but since Jesus already served our sentence, we no longer have to do the time.

This expresses God's love, for to love someone is to care about them more than you care about yourself.

So if Jesus is God, this would definately demonstrate God's love for mankind, in that he cares about us more than he does himself.

Or another anti-trinitarian view would be,
YHVH loves Jesus more than he does himself, and Jesus loves us more than he does himself.

Since YHVH loves Jesus, to send him into the world to die for us would be a statement that YHVH himself would die for us, seeing as how to love jesus would mean he cared about him more than himself. So to put Jesus to death would be a statement saying I too would put myself to death for you…if it were possible.

June 18, 2010 at 8:51 am#197921

Participant

Rokkaman,

In other words you always had pontential to be father, but doesnt mean your a father until your son was born.

Jesus did only what his Father wanted him to do, He did nothing that wasnt the will of the father,

Collisians ch1. express that he is the IMAGE of God, but in the likeness of his image.

Jesus yet exists, within time, space, and matter.

Yet God is above time, space, and matter.

Yet Jesus only does what the father willed.

Jesus Is the begining and in the end. He is the Alpha and the Omega.

He litterly is the begining, he says it himself in revelations. and he is the End.

Time has a begining and a end.

God is eternal, omnipresent, for God to participate in time, would be a limitation in his eternity.
because he is taking time,
to create one must have space and matter.
God his omnipresent,

Jesus is the respertation of God working within time, space, and matter.
Its either that Jesus is the Son of God,
or Jesus is God.

unlike us, when we have children they are diffenrent in some since, they are in our LIKENESS, related. not compelelty us.

we were created in the LIKENESS of God. yet we are not God,
i was created in the likenss of my father, yet i am not my father.

Jesus was the first born of all creation, but is not creation, but creator.

Creator which is Jehovahs title.

God before time, had the ability to do many things, but he wasnt those thigns until the effect was presented.

God cannot be healer if there is no pain.

before time there was no pain,

therefore God wasnt always a healer, even though he had the power to heal, the pontential.

Therefore before time, he wasnt father, because the effect would need children, Us, children are created in the likeness of father but are not the father,

Jesus is THE IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD.

but not likenss.

Jesus is not in the likeness of Father, than he is Father, Yet Father is Son,

God is our everything.

June 18, 2010 at 8:54 am#197924

Participant

God has acknowledged other gods in the bible. Pagan gods and even us human beings as gods. It seems to be a title referring to someone who is supreme.

but the way we use God is to refer to YHVH as The Absolute Supreme

If Jesus is The Absolute Supreme's child and is heir to everything that is his.

Jesus so too would be absolutely supreme compared to everything except God.

So to us, he is God.
To YHVH he is his Son.

They are equal in power and ability, yet The Father is always greater than The Son in authority.

so YHVH and Jesus are equals, yet they are not (paradoxical).

In the same way God made men and women equal, but gave men authority and women influence.

They are equal powers but cannot be compared as one being greater than the other. Authority controls everything, but influence controls authority.

YHVH controls everything, but Jesus influences YHVH's control and decisions to save us who are wretched as long as we believe in Jesus…

I dunno at this point I believe Jesus is God, but he's not YHVH. This understanding makes everything in the bible complete and acceptable. I no longer see any contradiction anywhere in the bible when i view things like this.
It actually gives me greater compassion for the gospel and makes Jesus' death mean so much more to me than previously believed. I can't even go a couple chapters without weeping at times.

Anyways, feel free to agree disagree or w/e…we all are entitled to our opinions and perceptions.

No one is 100% correct and we'll never be until we die.

June 18, 2010 at 9:09 am#197929

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 18 2010,19:51)

Rokkaman,

In other words you always had pontential to be father, but doesnt mean your a father until your son was born.

Jesus did only what his Father wanted him to do, He did nothing that wasnt the will of the father,

Collisians ch1. express that he is the IMAGE of God, but in the likeness of his image.

Jesus yet exists, within time, space, and matter.

Yet God is above time, space, and matter.

Yet Jesus only does what the father willed.

Jesus Is the begining and in the end. He is the Alpha and the Omega.

He litterly is the begining, he says it himself in revelations. and he is the End.

Time has a begining and a end.

God is eternal, omnipresent, for God to participate in time, would be a limitation in his eternity.
because he is taking time,
to create one must have space and matter.
God his omnipresent,

Jesus is the respertation of God working within time, space, and matter.
Its either that Jesus is the Son of God,
or Jesus is God.

unlike us, when we have children they are diffenrent in some since, they are in our LIKENESS, related. not compelelty us.

we were created in the LIKENESS of God. yet we are not God,
i was created in the likenss of my father, yet i am not my father.

Jesus was the first born of all creation, but is not creation, but creator.

Creator which is Jehovahs title.

God before time, had the ability to do many things, but he wasnt those thigns until the effect was presented.

God cannot be healer if there is no pain.

before time there was no pain,

therefore God wasnt always a healer, even though he had the power to heal, the pontential.

Therefore before time, he wasnt father, because the effect would need children, Us, children are created in the likeness of father but are not the father,

Jesus is THE IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD.

but not likenss.

Jesus is not in the likeness of Father, than he is Father, Yet Father is Son,

God is our everything.

I agree with 90% of what your saying. I do however disagree with

Its either that Jesus is the Son of God,
or Jesus is God.

It goes back to what I stated, the better question would be…
is Jesus YHVH?

and i've already stated no.

But if you understand that God is a title, then Jesus is The Son of YHVH and also God himself in that he is God manifested unto creation…eg working within space, time and matter.

God cannot created a being exactly equal to himself, yet it seems he did so with Jesus (Jesus being a derivative of YHVH in the same light my child is a derivative of me).

Jesus being equal in ability but unequal in authority, and unequal in the sense that he became human. YHVH as The Father never lowered or had to lower himself in any sense.

In a way you can say he cheated (positive light). That YHVH became man without becoming man through Jesus Christ. (paradoxical)

June 18, 2010 at 9:15 am#197932

Participant

And simplyforgiven I also believe that is a very good point you made.

A lot of christians don't see how God can be a Father and a Son.

When if you use a little common sense you can see that is evident in the world we live in.

As we speak, I am a Father and Son simultaneously.

So God so too can be a Father and a Son.
Father to all things, Son manifested as Jesus Christ.

He made a derivative of himself, uniquely beyond creation, in Jesus Christ…and He Jesus Christ is a Son of that result unto The Father that made it so.

Yet being of the same spiritual flesh in a way nothing in creation could ever be.

And if YHVH could ever be a son, daughter, aunt, uncle, brother, or sister…
If he is THE SUPREME being, all those titles could ONLY be in reference to himself as The Father.

So with that understanding, If Jesus is literally The Son of God, it could only make sense if he was the God he was a son to.

But when we say that, it can be understand as him being God in that he is heir to everything that is The Father's.

June 18, 2010 at 9:35 am#197940

Participant

Quote (RokkaMan @ June 18 2010,20:09)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 18 2010,19:51)

Rokkaman,

In other words you always had pontential to be father, but doesnt mean your a father until your son was born.

Jesus did only what his Father wanted him to do, He did nothing that wasnt the will of the father,

Collisians ch1. express that he is the IMAGE of God, but in the likeness of his image.

Jesus yet exists, within time, space, and matter.

Yet God is above time, space, and matter.

Yet Jesus only does what the father willed.

Jesus Is the begining and in the end. He is the Alpha and the Omega.

He litterly is the begining, he says it himself in revelations. and he is the End.

Time has a begining and a end.

God is eternal, omnipresent, for God to participate in time, would be a limitation in his eternity.
because he is taking time,
to create one must have space and matter.
God his omnipresent,

Jesus is the respertation of God working within time, space, and matter.
Its either that Jesus is the Son of God,
or Jesus is God.

unlike us, when we have children they are diffenrent in some since, they are in our LIKENESS, related. not compelelty us.

we were created in the LIKENESS of God. yet we are not God,
i was created in the likenss of my father, yet i am not my father.

Jesus was the first born of all creation, but is not creation, but creator.

Creator which is Jehovahs title.

God before time, had the ability to do many things, but he wasnt those thigns until the effect was presented.

God cannot be healer if there is no pain.

before time there was no pain,

therefore God wasnt always a healer, even though he had the power to heal, the pontential.

Therefore before time, he wasnt father, because the effect would need children, Us, children are created in the likeness of father but are not the father,

Jesus is THE IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD.

but not likenss.

Jesus is not in the likeness of Father, than he is Father, Yet Father is Son,

God is our everything.

I agree with 90% of what your saying. I do however disagree with

Its either that Jesus is the Son of God,
or Jesus is God.

It goes back to what I stated, the better question would be…
is Jesus YHVH?

and i've already stated no.

But if you understand that God is a title, then Jesus is The Son of YHVH and also God himself in that he is God manifested unto creation…eg working within space, time and matter.

God cannot created a being exactly equal to himself, yet it seems he did so with Jesus (Jesus being a derivative of YHVH in the same light my child is a derivative of me).

Jesus being equal in ability but unequal in authority, and unequal in the sense that he became human. YHVH as The Father never lowered or had to lower himself in any sense.

In a way you can say he cheated (positive light). That YHVH became man without becoming man through Jesus Christ. (paradoxical)

When i state that,

I was referring to the Title of God.
Jehovah is God and One Lord. (thats a bible verse in deut something.)

Everything that is Said, Jesus is God,

people argue that Jesus is the Son of God,
or that he Is God,

most agree that he is not merely just a human but ether God begotting God or that he is God.

thats what most of the debate are about,
my very last statement is what i think it is.

Jesus in the flesh was derivative, but before flesh he was not created.

Jesus is the Father particpating within time. Yet limiiting himself ot participate but yet still continueing to be omnipresent as the Father.

Lets say I have a son, that does everything that i do literally. If i lift my right arm, he lifts his right arm,

I speak, he speaks the same words,

he jump, he jumps.

all in the same exact time,
even though we look different, even though we may not be the same physically, could we agree that we might be the exact same person.

That is Jesus, the image of the invisible.

its like emotion, we cannot see emotion, can you see fear, how does fear look like? we cannot, but we can see fear through our facial expressions or our body language.

Can we see God, can we see the Father, yet Jesus says When we see the Son, we see the Father.

there is a power in limitation, there is perfection about limitation.

Its not only great, when being perfect in the best of things, but its even greater to be perfect in the least of things, therefore one is at his greatest being perfect in all things,

God is perfect in the spiritual, eternal plain. he is perfect within forever, never limited,

God is perfect in the physical, time, space and matter plain, he is perfect within lifespan, he is perfect within limitation.

There is no need for creation of Jesus,
Its just God particpating within our time.

The Father has a power to love a person,
thats pretty limiting to love ONE PERSON, the same as EVERYONE that has ever existed.
Its limiting to have the ability to just love one person.
Jesus was willing to die for ONE person yet for everyone.

Jesus died for me,
Died for you,
God is a personal God which is limiting,
Having a relationship with God is limiting.
There is a perfection about limitation.
because we are imperfect beings, limited and disgraceful, yet the perfect being, unlimited, and graceful wants a relationship with us? dont you think thats wantings whats less?

Much love,

June 18, 2010 at 9:40 am#197942

Participant

Hi SF,
Thinking is only speculation.
What is written?

June 18, 2010 at 9:40 am#197943

Participant

Quote

its like emotion, we cannot see emotion, can you see fear, how does fear look like? we cannot, but we can see fear through our facial expressions or our body language.

That is the best analogy i've ever read that expresses how Jesus is God in flesh.

June 18, 2010 at 9:42 am#197945

Participant

Quote (RokkaMan @ June 18 2010,20:15)

And simplyforgiven I also believe that is a very good point you made.

A lot of christians don't see how God can be a Father and a Son.

When if you use a little common sense you can see that is evident in the world we live in.

As we speak, I am a Father and Son simultaneously.

So God so too can be a Father and a Son.
Father to all things, Son manifested as Jesus Christ.

He made a derivative of himself, uniquely beyond creation, in Jesus Christ…and He Jesus Christ is a Son of that result unto The Father that made it so.

Yet being of the same spiritual flesh in a way nothing in creation could ever be.

And if YHVH could ever be a son, daughter, aunt, uncle, brother, or sister…
If he is THE SUPREME being, all those titles could ONLY be in reference to himself as The Father.

So with that understanding, If Jesus is literally The Son of God, it could only make sense if he was the God he was a son to.

But when we say that, it can be understand as him being God in that he is heir to everything that is The Father's.

Hey,

That one point i have made several times, yet no one ever refutes it for some reason, they always leave me hangin.

Yes exactly what you just stated, for example, im a son yet a brother, and teacher, and manager and a bunch of things all in the same time.

They either believe God is asexual and created another being, or that Jesus is God by a created since,

When i think it has nothing do with creation, its according to Gods role in respect to Us.

its all about us, God doesnt do anything, without thinking about us, he did everything for us, and for himself.

He created the earth for us, and a ecosystem of life for us to live in.

My point being is that God takes many roles in our lives, He is our healer when we have pain, our creator to be created, our savior!?? The Son of Man, the Son of God, is a respective role of life.

What is the role of Jesus?
Isnt he the only way truth and light. He is the savior of our very souls?
Shouldnt that glory belong to God and God alone.

Therefore every role has a name for God.
The OT has many names for God, Jehobah-rarfa, yishi, Yahweh and etc.

each name according to Gods role.

its the only arguement that i have that hasnt been debated.

becuase its honely true, and we even live it today. we can observe this things that is common sense!

much love!

June 18, 2010 at 9:43 am#197946

Participant

Hi SF,
Theology gets us nowhere.
Dig deeper.

June 18, 2010 at 9:48 am#197951

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2010,20:40)

Hi SF,
Thinking is only speculation.
What is written?

Hi nick,
I already presented many scripture referring to my post in many other threads.

Take collosisians, take hebrews, take the book of John, read it.

In this thread, we are speculating obvously, using examples that are True, observable cliams, yet biblically it is also proved.

I have already made at thread abuot this,

'”God maybe all in all”
Make your Responds there to what i have stated. beacuse the ideas of what i stated are on that thread.

thank you!

Two lines today, congrats!

June 18, 2010 at 9:51 am#197953

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2010,20:43)

Hi SF,
Theology gets us nowhere.
Dig deeper.

Hi Nick,

Theology has nothing to do with it,
Thank you for attacking me personaly.

its called commen sense, God gave it to you,
use it,

You dont have to dig, its already there.
You dont dig for truth, Truth is revealed.

Truth is Revelation of God.
You do not dig for truth like you dig for bones.
you can dig to find only death.

June 18, 2010 at 9:52 am#197954

Participant

Hi SF,
Everyman claims commonsense as being his own thoughts.
Naah dig deeper and found your beliefs on rock

June 18, 2010 at 9:52 am#197955

Participant

Amen SF, please do not listen to Nick. To say theology gets us no where is like saying, using human language to describe God is invalid and unacceptable.

It may hold some truth, but it's all we got.

How can a Dog understand the complexities of a Human being?

In the same light, how can a Human understand the complexities of God?

So with that said, we can do our best…and if SF's theology is our best, as long as it doesn't cross and disagree with scripture…it is permissable.

I rebuke you Nick.

June 18, 2010 at 9:55 am#197958

Participant

Hi RM,
1Cor 2 and Rom 1 clearly show the idiocy of thinking of human thoughts are like God's.
Get to know your new Father and you will not need opinion and theory.
He does not fit in theology boxes.

June 18, 2010 at 10:02 am#197963

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2010,20:52)

Hi SF,
Everyman claims commonsense as being his own thoughts.
Naah dig deeper and found your beliefs on rock

Hi nick,
Thank you for your speculatoin,
I disagree.

God reveals everything, if one is going to dig, dig not, but to get closer to God and God alone.

There is no time to shovel but to seek the light, which is in a narrow way, in a narrow gate. seek the way the truth and the light which is Jesus Christ,

seek him.

a Rock will not save your, but the Rock of your salvation will.
Gods existance is common sense, look around you.

common sense is not my thoughts, commen sense means, what is revealed to you, or whats easily observable around you.

You see blue, i see blue, we all see blue. common sense its blue, you dont need to look it up, nor look for a textbook, or even a forum about debates about blue,

Its common sense its blue.

God is the God of simplcitity,

God is simple for us.
Yet complicated,

Complicated that we cannot understand every single detail. yet simple to get to know him.

like car its complciated yet simple. the purpose of a car is to make distance shorter, so a car is a complicated vechile that makes a distance most shorter and a destination more simple to get too.

the Vechile is complicated because it has various parts, and motor work. Yet its purpose is simple.

God is complicated, yet his love is simple.

God loves you, you dont need to look in a book to know that, just ask him, and he will simply tell you.

June 18, 2010 at 10:07 am#197964