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Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2009,07:34) Hi BD,
All good prose has innate worth.
I read a book or two a month.
Who wrote yours is the issue.
You could easily read it and find outQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2009,17:32) Hi BD,
You have offered plenty and it is flavourless.
Do you have anything inspired to offer?
(10) The Jews say: “The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: “The Jews have naught (To stand) upon.” Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #113)(23) He it is Who has sent down to thee the book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in the book; the whole of it is from our Lord:” and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #7)(58) O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His books, His Messenger., and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #136)(60) The people of the book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: “Show us Allah in public,” but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #153)Quote (thethinker @ June 18 2009,04:05) Paladin said: Quote Hey thinker, who was the idiot who said “son of man” is a divine title? I have shown you that “son of man” can reference anything from a worm to the son of God. NONE of them are “divine titles.”
Even “Son of God” is not a divine title, it is a reference. No wonder trinitarians can't focus, they have so many side issues to try to remember; issues having nothing whatsoever to do with reality. “son of man = divine title!” Really?
Greetings Paladin,
I said that the term “Son of Man” in reference to Jesus is a divine title. Titles that applied to men in the old testament have a greater meaning in Christ for He bore that title in the most high and noble sense. I believe I have demonstrated this. For example, as Son of Man Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins. Mere men (or worms) did not have such authority.Godspeed,
thinker
What part of “God gave Jesus all power” does NOT, repeat, NOT apply to forgiving sins?What part of “God gave Jesus all authority” does NOT, repeat, NOT apply to forgiving sins?
But, sine Jesus was NOT, repeat, NOT given all knowledge, he is not God, is he? God knows all those things Jesus had no answers to.
Paladin said:
Quote What part of “God gave Jesus all power” does NOT, repeat, NOT apply to forgiving sins? PD,
Your reasoning is circular. God cannot give the authority to forgive sins to a mere man. This is why the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy when He claimed He had the authority to forgive sins.God can only grant to God such authority!
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 18 2009,23:14) Paladin said: Quote What part of “God gave Jesus all power” does NOT, repeat, NOT apply to forgiving sins? PD,
Your reasoning is circular. God cannot give the authority to forgive sins to a mere man. This is why the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy when He claimed He had the authority to forgive sins.God can only grant to God such authority!
thinker
(thinker)Quote God cannot give the authority to forgive sins to a mere man. WoW! Does God know that?
Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
Or am I really God and ignorant of being God?
thethinker said:
Quote God cannot give the authority to forgive sins to a mere man. Paladin replied replied:
Quote WoW! Does God know that? Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
Or am I really God and ignorant of being God?
PD,
I may forgive my brother's trespasses against me. But I cannot forgive my brother's sins against you or against God. Only God many forgive sins against Himself. Since Jesus had the authority to forgive sins against God He was therefore God.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 19 2009,00:14) thethinker said: Quote God cannot give the authority to forgive sins to a mere man. Paladin replied replied:
Quote WoW! Does God know that? Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
Or am I really God and ignorant of being God?
PD,
I may forgive my brother's trespasses against me. But I cannot forgive my brother's sins against you or against God. Only God many forgive sins against Himself. Since Jesus had the authority to forgive sins against God He was therefore God.thinker
So you are saying God lied?(thinker)
Quote
PD,
I may forgive my brother's trespasses against me. But I cannot forgive my brother's sins against you or against God. Only God many forgive sins against Himself. Since Jesus had the authority to forgive sins against God He was therefore God. thinker(P) What makes you think the reference is about sins against God? It is power to forgive sins on earth that the Jews were calling blasphemy.
Matthew 9:1 And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city.
2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
7 And he arose, and departed to his house.
8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.Paladin said:
Quote It is power to forgive sins on earth that the Jews were calling blasphemy. Greetings Pd,
Please compare Matthew's account with Luke's account.
Matthew's account: “At once some of the scribes said within themselves, 'This man blasphemes!' ” (9:3)
Luke's account: “And the scribes and pharisees began to reason saying, 'Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?' ” (5:21)
When Jesus claimed to have the authority to forgive sins He necessarily inferred that the Son of Man was God.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2009,19:08) Hi BD, Awful dry stuff, do you agree?
Are you serious?It is beautifully written.
(4) Say: What thing is the weightiest in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me; and this quran has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomsoever it reaches. Do you really bear witness that there are other gods with Allah? Say: I do not bear witness. Say: He is only one Allah, and surely I am clear of that which you set up (with Him).
( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #19)(8) And this quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds.
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #37)(9) And you are not (engaged) in any affair, nor do you recite concerning it any portion of the quran, nor do you do any work but We are witnesses over you when you enter into it, and there does not lie concealed from your Lord the weight of an atom in the earth or in the heaven, nor any thing less than that nor greater, but it is in a clear book.
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #61)Quote (thethinker @ June 19 2009,04:18) Paladin said: Quote It is power to forgive sins on earth that the Jews were calling blasphemy. Greetings Pd,
Please compare Matthew's account with Luke's account.
Matthew's account: “At once some of the scribes said within themselves, 'This man blasphemes!' ” (9:3)
Luke's account: “And the scribes and pharisees began to reason saying, 'Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?' ” (5:21)
When Jesus claimed to have the authority to forgive sins He necessarily inferred that the Son of Man was God.
thinker
(thinker)Quote When Jesus claimed to have the authority to forgive sins He necessarily inferred that the Son of Man was God. Sounds like “Church of Christ” doctrine to me.
There is no such thing as “necessary inference” used as a teaching tool in scripture.
There may be some “inferences” found in scripture, but none that are “necessary” for our salvation.
God did not leave anything to chance, or the mind of men, that is necessary for our salvation.
The ONLY sense in which there is anything “necessarily inferred” would be a “grammatical sense,” not a salvation sense.
You may “infer” from the contested references, that the power to forgive sins was given to the man Jesus by God. Otherwise it is simply doctrine driving interpretation.
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 19 2009,05:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2009,19:08) Hi BD, Awful dry stuff, do you agree?
Are you serious?It is beautifully written.
(4) Say: What thing is the weightiest in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me; and this quran has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomsoever it reaches. Do you really bear witness that there are other gods with Allah? Say: I do not bear witness. Say: He is only one Allah, and surely I am clear of that which you set up (with Him).
( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #19)(8) And this quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds.
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #37)(9) And you are not (engaged) in any affair, nor do you recite concerning it any portion of the quran, nor do you do any work but We are witnesses over you when you enter into it, and there does not lie concealed from your Lord the weight of an atom in the earth or in the heaven, nor any thing less than that nor greater, but it is in a clear book.
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #61)
Hi BD,
They say you can grow to love anything.
But treating such words and spirit and life is beyond me.It seems to be self promoting but the word of our God is alive cutting to the division of soul and spirit.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2009,10:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 19 2009,05:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2009,19:08) Hi BD, Awful dry stuff, do you agree?
Are you serious?It is beautifully written.
(4) Say: What thing is the weightiest in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me; and this quran has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomsoever it reaches. Do you really bear witness that there are other gods with Allah? Say: I do not bear witness. Say: He is only one Allah, and surely I am clear of that which you set up (with Him).
( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #19)(8) And this quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds.
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #37)(9) And you are not (engaged) in any affair, nor do you recite concerning it any portion of the quran, nor do you do any work but We are witnesses over you when you enter into it, and there does not lie concealed from your Lord the weight of an atom in the earth or in the heaven, nor any thing less than that nor greater, but it is in a clear book.
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #61)
Hi BD,
They say you can grow to love anything.
But treating such words and spirit and life is beyond me.It seems to be self promoting but the word of our God is alive cutting to the division of soul and spirit.
You've got to be kidding. It is a revelation for all mankind.(13) O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #1)(19) O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #174)53) But verily thy Lord is full of grace to mankind: Yet most of them are ungrateful.
( سورة النمل , An-Naml, Chapter #27, Verse #73)(28) But those among them who are well-grounded in knowledge, and the believers, believe in what hath been revealed to thee and what was revealed before thee: And (especially) those who establish regular prayer and practise regular charity and believe in Allah and in the Last Day: To them shall We soon give a great reward.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #162)Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2009,13:34) Hi BD,
No divine support for what you offer as true.
Just another human religion it seems
How is there no divine support?I guess you should follow the pope he is believed to have divine support and a tradition of divine support.
Hi BD,
No the whore has no future but repentance and rebirth into the Son of God offers eternal life.
Do not let charlatans block the way for you.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2009,13:48) Hi BD,
No the whore has no future but repentance and rebirth into the Son of God offers eternal life.
Do not let charlatans block the way for you.
And yet you are blind to the word of God without cause.John 15:24-26 (New King James Version)
25 But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.but to you I say:
Psalm 69:4 (New King James Version)
4 Those who hate me without a cause
Are more than the hairs of my head;
They are mighty who would destroy me,
Being my enemies wrongfully;
Though I have stolen nothing,
I still must restore it.God Bless you Always
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