My eye has been opened

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  • #155776
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,11:41)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 09 2009,16:39)
    Hi CON,
    It was apparent that Moses and Elijah were not in heaven when they met with Jesus because they were seen on earth.

    Jesus was with them and was transformed and conversed with them.

    Was he speaking with himself?


    It was a vision.


    Hi CON,
    So did Jesus go up the mountain with his apostles, and they all saw a vision of the one they went up the mountain with, speaking with nonexistent people?

    #155782
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,11:36)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 08 2009,17:52)

    Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 09 2009,04:56)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 08 2009,09:40)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 09 2009,04:39)
    Hi BD,
    And God now dwells in those alive in His Spirit on earth.[Eph2]
    We too are seated in Christ at the right hand of God[Col2]
    God is in heaven where Jesus said to pray to Him.[Mt6]


    So where is Elijah?


    Elijah is dead.


    How is Elijah dead when he never died according to the scriptures and according to the scriptures he went to heaven?

    How was this “dead” Elijah with Jesus on the Mountain?

    And why is it that Jesus says that Elijah, Abraham, Moses…etc is not dead for God is the God of the living?

    He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
    Mark 12:26-28

    Is Jesus wrong?


    Here is a good source:

    Are Enoch, Eliyah and Moses in Heaven?

    The Bible says, “Eliyah went up in whirlwind into heaven.” (2 Kgs.2:11); Enoch was translated by Yahweh (Heb.11:5); and Moses appeared in the transfiguration with Yahshua (Mt.17:3). Do these scriptures prove that the three were in heaven while Messiah was alive on Earth? No!

    Jn.3:13 – “And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, the Son of Man.” These words were spoken by Yahshua himself in regards to being “born again” or resurrected from the dead (vss 3-12). These words cannot be denied or misunderstood.

    We also have the Apostle Paul's witness; Col.1:18 – “that in all things he might have the preeminence.” Yahshua had to be the firstborn from the dead; the first to be resurrected unto eternal life; the first to ascend into heaven and stand before Yahweh. If anyone preceeded him then he wasn't the firstborn from the dead. Since some people believe Enoch and Eliyah did not die, but that Moses did die, then that would mean Moses had the preeminence over Messiah.

    In light of these two powerful verses, Jn.3:13 and Col.1:18, how can we explain what happened to Enoch, Eliyah and Moses? Let's begin with Moses;

    Duet.34:5,6 – There cannot be any doubt that Moses died and was buried. Therefore, for him to be in heaven, he had to be resurrected from the dead. According to I Cor.15:52 that will not occur until the last trumpet sounds.

    What about Michael and Satan disputing about Moses' body? Jude 9 does not say Michael won the dispute and then took Moses to heaven. Since there is no mention of heaven here we should not assume he was taken there.

    Mt.17:1-9 – Notice verse 9 says, “Tell the vision to no man.” a vision is not reality. The same Greek word for “vision” was used of Peter's vision of the abominations on the cloth in Acts 10:17. They were not real but a supernatural picture. In the case of the transfiguration it was a prophetic vision which would take place in the distant future.

    Mt.16:28 – This was quoted by Yahshua six days before the transfiguration. He was speaking to the disciples, but what did he mean? Surely he didn't mean they would live for almost 2,000 years until his coming at the last trumpet. Those that would not “taste of death” were Peter, James and John who saw the Son of Man glorified in the Kingdom through a prophetic vision.

    Heb.11:23-28 – These verses talk about Moses living by faith. Verses 39,40 – Moses did not receive the promise of a resurrection unto eternal life and perfection.
    What about Eliyah? We have already seen that the transfiguration was a prophetic vision which does not prove that he was in heaven.

    Heb.11:32 – Here we read about the prophets who lived by faith and died without receiving the promise. Eliyah was surely one of those prophets. But to be certain let's look at what happened to him in 2 Kgs.2:1,11 .

    If Yahshua the Messiah said “no man has ascended to heaven,” then what heaven are these scriptures talking about? The Bible mentions three heavens. The first heaven is Earth's atmosphere where birds fly (Gen.1:20); The second heaven is outer space where the planets and stars exist (Gen.1:16,17); The third heaven is what the Apostle Paul calls “paradise” in II Cor.12:2-4. It is where Yahweh and the heavenly sanctuary exist.

    Eliyah was caught up to the first heaven where birds fly and was transported to another location on Earth. Notice vss. 15 & 16; the sons of the prophets, who knew Eliyah would be taken away (vss. 3,5), believed that Eliyah was taken to another location. They didn't think he went to the third heaven.

    A similar incident to Eliyah's took place in Acts 8:39,40 – Phillip was caught up into the first heaven, as Eliyah was, and was transported to another location approximately 3o miles away. Eliyah may not have been found because he was transported further away than the fifty men searched (vs. 17).

    Proof that Eliyah did not die, but was transported, is found in II Chr.21:12-15 . From the wording of this letter it is clear that Eliyah wrote it after the events occurred for he speaks of them as past events, and of the disease as a future event.

    This letter was written by Eliyah more than four years after his being taken up to the first heaven (see attached chronology). The Bible does not reveal how much longer Eliyah lived after writing the letter but it does say in Heb.9:27 that it is appointed unto men to die once.

    Heb.9:27 would also include Enoch among the dead. Based on that verse and Yahshua's statement in Jn.3:13, “no man has ascended to heaven”, how are we to understand the account of Enoch?

    Gen.5:21-24 – These verses do not tell us much except that Enoch's days, alive on Earth, ended at 365 years old. The question is, did he die, was he taken to heaven alive, or was he transported to another location on Earth as Eliyah was?

    Consider Ps.37:35,36 and Ps.39:12,13;

    “I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree. Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.”

    “Hear my prayer, O Yahweh, and give ear unto my cry; hold not thy peace at my tears: for I am a stranger with thee, and a sojourner, as all my fathers were. O spare me, that I may recover strength, before I go hence, and be no more.”

    The Hebrew for the phrases in bold is the same Hebrew as Gen.5:24; “And Enoch walked with Elohim: and he was not; for Elohim took him.” As in the Psalms, the phrase means the person “passed away” or would eventually die. Consider also Gen.42:13 and Gen.44:20;

    “And they said, Thy servants are twelve brethren, the sons of one man in the land of Canaan; and, behold, the youngest is this day with our father, and one is not.” This was spoken of Joseph by his brothers. What did they mean by “is not”?

    “And we said unto my lord, We have a father, an old man, and a child of his ol
    d age, a little one; and his brother is dead, and he alone is left of his mother, and his father loveth him.” Here the brothers recount their previous discussion about Joseph with Pharoah. When they first said, “and one is not,” they meant Joseph “is dead.” Finally, consider Mt.2:18;

    “In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.” Where are Rachel's children? Dead.

    Heb.11:5 – Does the phrase “should not see death” mean Enoch never died? Let's read the first three words of Heb 11:4,5,7,8,11 and 13 . Everyone mentioned in the previous verses died including Enoch. But not only that, verse 13 goes on to say that they did not receive the promises. One of the promises was a heavenly country (vs. 16). If Enoch were in heaven, wouldn't he have received that promise? The fact is, Enoch is not in heaven but is dead in the grave awaiting his resurrection along with every other saint.

    Ps.89:47,48 – Why would the Psalmist ask such a question concerning physical death if he believed Enoch did not see a physical death? The fact is, the Psalmist believed Enoch was in the grave and therefore asked the question.

    So what does the phrase “should not see death” mean? In Lu. 2:25-29 we see that phrase to mean that Simeon would not die a physical death or what is known as “the first death.” Without any further Bible study we would be led to believe Enoch never died and is still alive in heaven. But let's look at Jn.8:51 . Here the phrase “shall never see death” must mean “the second death” since all the Apostles, including Paul, kept Yahshua's sayings and yet died the first death.

    Now we must decide whether the phrase “should not see death”, as it applies to Enoch, means the first or second death. Based on Heb.9:27 and Heb.11:13 we must conclude that he died the first death prematurely so that he should not see the second death. To believe Enoch did not die is to deny the plain word of many other scriptures as well. For example, Rom.5:12,14 says all men die because all have sinned. Are we to believe that Enoch did not sin or that the curse for sinning did not apply to him? Are we to believe that a man who was not yet cleansed of sin by the blood of Messiah could enter heaven and dwell in Yahweh's presence?

    Heb.11:5 – If Enoch did not die and was not taken to heaven then where was he translated to and what does “translation” mean? According to Strong's, Thayer's and Bullinger's Greek Lexicons, “translate” means “to put or place in another place, to transport, to transfer.” The same Greek word was used in Acts 7:16 where Jacob's body was “translated” or “carried over” to Sychem to be buried. Yahweh took Enoch and buried him somewhere so as not to be found just as he did with the body of Moses in Deut.34:6. Moses' body was never found and neither was Enoch's because Yahweh hid them for reasons known only to Him.

    I Cor.15:20-23 – All die and all shall be resurrected, but Messiah must be first in the order. Enoch could not possibly precede him, especially if he were still flesh and blood as it says in verses 49-52. To be able to dwell in heaven we must be changed from a flesh and blood natural body to a spiritual heavenly body. That change does not take place until the last trumpet.

    In conclusion, let's turn to Jn.3:13 . Are we going to believe Yahshua based on the evidence just presented or are we going to hold onto a false doctrine? The choice is yours.

    http://www.intergate.com/~jcordaro/enoch,eliyah,moses.html


    Why force the scriptures Elijah was taken up to heaven that is the scriptures. Can you show me ONE scripture of Elijah Dying or being referred to as dead in any way?

    Also you say that Jesus was taken up to heaven and they saw him going up and guess what he was in a flesh and blood body, he ate fish and honey comb and said that he was not a ghost that he had flesh and bones:

    Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
    Luke 24:38-40

    #155784
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,
    Which of the heavens was he taken to?

    #155786
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 10 2009,12:46)
    Hi BD,
    Which of the heavens was he taken to?


    Which of the heavens was Jesus taken up to?

    #155789
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,
    No sign of Elijah in any description of the highest heaven but there are plenty of the Son of God.

    #155790
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 14 2009,03:13)
    The word was with God, was God, and was Made flesh.

    The glory was with God, was God, and was made flesh.

    Jesus is The Glory of God

    ——————————————————-

    There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three are one.

    There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, his Glory, and his Wisdom…and these three are one.

    Trinitarian when you understand it from a human perspective…but understanding that The Glory is not God himself, and the wisdom is not God himself…should help you understand Jesus and The Holy Spirit's position. That these two are PART of God but do not MAKE UP GOD.

    Yes Jesus pre-existed, this isn't a trinitarian view…this is a christian view…and it is established in The Bible.

    Creation was made through and by Jesus' Hand which as authored and issued by The Father…They both are and should be credited with creation.

    Anti-trinitarians you should esteem Jesus and The Holy Spirit as you do The Father, for they are one in in purpose and being.

    Trinitarians you should not take trinitarianism as a stance that Jesus is God himself in a human identity…Jesus is God's glory. And is a part of God.

    So when Jesus died on the cross, it was not God himself who died…but his glory…which the world was fashioned from.

    So it is equally as important and devastating that his Glory died on The Cross for the worlds were made from this Glory.

    Amen.


    Hi RM + Everybody else,

    What I see here is a lack of understanding, RokkaMan is truly on to something.
    And what I see is: people here on this post merely picking apart his faulty analogy.

    His analogy is similar to use a mirror to explain a person. Because a mirror is NOT a person,
    this where your debating all begins. You must NOT overlook (the essence) of his scenario.
    The same way when you look into a mirror you see a person;
    (((You see a person in the mirror)))!  This is the essence of his point,
    and it is a Good analogy!

    He does have some critical information missing, and also some of his words are out of place, though.
    But my point is NOT about anything faulty an anybody; my point is to help us all to better understand “GOD”,
    WHO'S NAME ALONE is: in English “YHVH” [[[ YÄ-hä-vā ]]]! (Psalm 83:13, 148:13)

    I have written a free internet e-book called “HolyCityBibleCode”, documenting The very proof of God’s existence.

    In Chapters 7, 8, 10, 11 and 12, I explain what I see everybody debating about.

    If “ANYBODY” takes the time to read those (relatively small) chapters;
    I will “then” illustrate the faultiness of “ANY” opposing view.

    God bless
    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #155950
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2009,14:00)

    Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 14 2009,03:13)
    The word was with God, was God, and was Made flesh.

    The glory was with God, was God, and was made flesh.

    Jesus is The Glory of God

    ——————————————————-

    There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three are one.

    There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, his Glory, and his Wisdom…and these three are one.

    Trinitarian when you understand it from a human perspective…but understanding that The Glory is not God himself, and the wisdom is not God himself…should help you understand Jesus and The Holy Spirit's position. That these two are PART of God but do not MAKE UP GOD.

    Yes Jesus pre-existed, this isn't a trinitarian view…this is a christian view…and it is established in The Bible.

    Creation was made through and by Jesus' Hand which as authored and issued by The Father…They both are and should be credited with creation.

    Anti-trinitarians you should esteem Jesus and The Holy Spirit as you do The Father, for they are one in in purpose and being.

    Trinitarians you should not take trinitarianism as a stance that Jesus is God himself in a human identity…Jesus is God's glory. And is a part of God.

    So when Jesus died on the cross, it was not God himself who died…but his glory…which the world was fashioned from.

    So it is equally as important and devastating that his Glory died on The Cross for the worlds were made from this Glory.

    Amen.


    Hi RM + Everybody else,

    What I see here is a lack of understanding, RokkaMan is truly on to something.
    And what I see is: people here on this post merely picking apart his faulty analogy.

    His analogy is similar to use a mirror to explain a person. Because a mirror is NOT a person,
    this where your debating all begins. You must NOT overlook (the essence) of his scenario.
    The same way when you look into a mirror you see a person;
    (((You see a person in the mirror)))!  This is the essence of his point,
    and it is a Good analogy!

    He does have some critical information missing, and also some of his words are out of place, though.
    But my point is NOT about anything faulty an anybody; my point is to help us all to better understand “GOD”,
    WHO'S NAME ALONE is: in English “YHVH” [[[ YÄ-hä-vā ]]]! (Psalm 83:13, 148:13)

    I have written a free internet e-book called “HolyCityBibleCode”, documenting The very proof of God’s existence.

    In Chapters 7, 8, 10, 11 and 12, I explain what I see everybody debating about.

    If “ANYBODY” takes the time to read those (relatively small) chapters;
    I will “then” illustrate the faultiness of “ANY” opposing view.

    God bless
    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Read the book, why is it you say that Lucifer is an enemy to God the fact is this:

    7) “Did I not enjoin on you, O ye Children of Adam, that ye should not worship Satan; for that he was to you an enemy avowed?-
    ( سورة يس , Ya Seen, Chapter #36, Verse #60)

    8) Let not the Evil One hinder you: for he is to you an enemy avowed.
    ( سورة الزخرف , Az-Zukhruf, Chapter #43, Verse #62)

    Sura #7 | Makkah

    1 Alif, Lam, Mim, Sad.
    2 A Book revealed unto thee,- So let thy heart be oppressed no more by any difficulty on that account,- that with it thou mightest warn (the erring) and teach the Believers).
    3 Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord, and follow not, as friends or protectors, other than Him. Little it is ye remember of admonition.
    4 How many towns have We destroyed (for their sins)? Our punishment took them on a sudden by night or while they slept for their afternoon rest.
    5 When (thus) Our punishment took them, no cry did they utter but this: “Indeed we did wrong.”
    6 Then shall we question those to whom Our message was sent and those by whom We sent it.
    7 And verily, We shall recount their whole story with knowledge, for We were never absent (at any time or place).
    8 The balance that day will be true (to nicety): those whose scale (of good) will be heavy, will prosper:
    9 Those whose scale will be light, will be their souls in perdition, for that they wrongfully treated Our signs.
    10 It is We Who have placed you with authority on earth, and provided you therein with means for the fulfilment of your life: small are the thanks that ye give!
    11 It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We made the angels bow down to Adam, and they bowed down; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who bow down.
    12 ((Allah)) said: “What prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee?” He said: “I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay.”
    13 ((Allah)) said: “Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures).”
    14 He said: “Give me respite till the day they are raised up.”
    15 ((Allah)) said: “Be thou among those who have respite.”
    16 He said: “Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:
    17 “Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies).”
    18 ((Allah)) said: “Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.

    #155952
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,
    Do you think if you keep throwing mud at the wall some of it will stick?

    But it will remain just mud.

    We have good food here.

    #155961
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,11:24)
    Read the book


    Hi BD,

    Do you believe in the ‘hadith’ as well?

    Ed J

    #155963
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2009,13:27)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,11:24)
    Read the book


    Hi BD,

    Do you believe in the ‘hadith’ as well?

    Ed J


    The Quran is the revelation the hadith is not authoritive

    #155964
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2009,13:27)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,11:24)
    Read the book


    Hi BD,

    Do you believe in the ‘hadith’ as well?

    Ed J


    I have read your book is what I meant to say.

    #155968
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2009,14:00)

    Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 14 2009,03:13)
    The word was with God, was God, and was Made flesh.

    The glory was with God, was God, and was made flesh.

    Jesus is The Glory of God

    ——————————————————-

    There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three are one.

    There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, his Glory, and his Wisdom…and these three are one.

    Trinitarian when you understand it from a human perspective…but understanding that The Glory is not God himself, and the wisdom is not God himself…should help you understand Jesus and The Holy Spirit's position. That these two are PART of God but do not MAKE UP GOD.

    Yes Jesus pre-existed, this isn't a trinitarian view…this is a christian view…and it is established in The Bible.

    Creation was made through and by Jesus' Hand which as authored and issued by The Father…They both are and should be credited with creation.

    Anti-trinitarians you should esteem Jesus and The Holy Spirit as you do The Father, for they are one in in purpose and being.

    Trinitarians you should not take trinitarianism as a stance that Jesus is God himself in a human identity…Jesus is God's glory. And is a part of God.

    So when Jesus died on the cross, it was not God himself who died…but his glory…which the world was fashioned from.

    So it is equally as important and devastating that his Glory died on The Cross for the worlds were made from this Glory.

    Amen.


    Hi RM + Everybody else,

    What I see here is a lack of understanding, RokkaMan is truly on to something.
    And what I see is: people here on this post merely picking apart his faulty analogy.

    His analogy is similar to use a mirror to explain a person. Because a mirror is NOT a person,
    this where your debating all begins. You must NOT overlook (the essence) of his scenario.
    The same way when you look into a mirror you see a person;
    (((You see a person in the mirror)))!  This is the essence of his point,
    and it is a Good analogy!

    He does have some critical information missing, and also some of his words are out of place, though.
    But my point is NOT about anything faulty an anybody; my point is to help us all to better understand “GOD”,
    WHO'S NAME ALONE is: in English “YHVH” [[[ YÄ-hä-vā ]]]! (Psalm 83:13, 148:13)

    I have written a free internet e-book called “HolyCityBibleCode”, documenting The very proof of God’s existence.

    In Chapters 7, 8, 10, 11 and 12, I explain what I see everybody debating about.

    If “ANYBODY” takes the time to read those (relatively small) chapters;
    I will “then” illustrate the faultiness of “ANY” opposing view.

    God bless
    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    http://www.biblecode.com/struct.html

    In your book you say Jesus = 74
    but on this site above Jesus = 888 which you say is a lucifer number

    Why is that?

    #155983
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,14:17)
    In your book you say Jesus = 74
    but on this site above Jesus = 888 which you say is a lucifer number

    Why is that?

    WHAT SITE?
    AND ABOVE WHAT?


    Hi BD,

    Do you believe in the ‘hadith’ as well?
    Still waiting for an answer!!!!!
    You ignored my question; but I WILL answer yours!

    Since you didn’t answer my first question, I now have more questions for you; BD

    Do you believe that what the bible says is true?
    or do you just pretend to agree with it?
    What verse in the ‘hadith’ says it is OK to ‘LIE’ to your enemy?

    According to Islamic tradition, any half brother is considered ‘a brother’;
    Islam traces its ancestry line back to Abraham through Ishmael.
    Israelites also trace their ancestry line back to Abraham through Isaac.
    That means (according to Islamic tradition) you are a brother to them.

    Here is how the truth is exposed (1John 3:10-12).
    You either believe in “The Bible” or you believe the ‘hadith’; you cannot believe both!

    YHVH is GOD=117!

    (Isaiah 53:12)=(Ιησους=888)!

    I Will explain the meaning of [Isaiah 53:12] for you; it is the ‘UNAUTHENTIC’ name!

    Paul’s Greek-written manuscripts (fulfills the prophesy of Isaiah 53:12) having transcribed the
    Hebrew name [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă into Greek as [Ιησους] Ē-Ā-Soos. Note the similarity in pronunciation
    and Theomatic values for both Ē-Ā-Soos=74 and Jesus=74.  While Theomatics (Gematria) keeps
    mathematical connections in English, it tells nothing of GOD’s name [יה] YÄ being linguistically
    distanced further and further from His Word by re-transcribing a previous translation. Specifically,
    instead of transcribing the authentic Hebrew Name (יהשוע), the King James linguistics instead transcribed
    the Greek name for Jesus (Ιησους); which is UNAUTHENTIC because it is a “translation of a translation”. [יהשוע] translates into “English”=74 as [Joshua=74] YÄ-shoe-ă=74.

    Jesus’ authentic name [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă has a direct connection to GOD’s name [יה]
    in that YÄ is the first part of Jesus’ “REAL” name. GOD’s name is not vocalized
    in the English translation of the name Jesus and therefore misses the precise exactness
    and direct authentic connection to God’s Hebrew name [יה] YÄ. Jesus’ Name in Hebrew
    יהשוע means: (“YÄ is salvation” [יה]+[ישע]=[יהשוע]) the salvation of “GOD the Father”.
    [יהשוע] “Jesus” REAL name authentically establishes [יהוה] “JEHOVAH” as the highest Name.

    (Phil. 2:9,11: Wherefore [Holy Spirit=151] has highly exalted [Jesus=74] giving Him a name
    which is above every name, to the glory of [GOD The Father=117].) Neither is there salvation
    in any other name: for there is no other name given among men (יהשוע), whereby we must be
    saved. (Acts 4:12) People speaking fluent Hebrew know that in essence, [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă
    means: “YÄ is Savior”. The Name of [GOD=26] is [“יהוה”=26] spoken as [YÄ=26]; and “YÄ-hä-vā”!

    “The Savior”=117 is “GOD The Father”=117, (117=”יהוה האלהים” YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm)!
    And He is Savior to all who walk the ground! “JEHOVAH GOD”; and there is ‘NO’ other!

    In Chapter 23 of the free e-book, I have been writing about the very subject of your question. Here is your answer!

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the numbers 666, 222, & 888 all go together.
    These numbers make up (as I understand things) the un-holy trinity of Revelation.

    I know this is going to invoke some serious debate but (according to my understanding)
    Here is how the structure fits together mathematically [666+222=888], and Biblically…

    666=‘false prophet’ of (Rev.13:18)
    (Rev.13:11)

    222=‘antichrist’ of (1John 2:22)
    (Rev.13:1)

    888=‘great red dragon’: Satan’s=74 name ‘Lucifer’=74 (Isaiah 53:12 Ιησους=888 Ē-Ā-Soos=74)
    (Rev.12:3)

    Here is a Quote for you: “To not fully understand the enemy is to leave oneself blind”

    You claim to believe in both “The Bible” and ‘the Quran’; how is this possible?

    Ed J

    #155987
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2009,15:48)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,14:17)
    In your book you say Jesus = 74
    but on this site above Jesus = 888 which you say is a lucifer number

    Why is that?

    WHAT SITE?
    AND ABOVE WHAT?


    Hi BD,

    Do you believe in the ‘hadith’ as well?
    Still waiting for an answer!!!!!
    You ignored my question; but I WILL answer yours!

    Since you didn’t answer my first question, I now have more questions for you; BD

    Do you believe that what the bible says is true?
    or do you just pretend to agree with it?
    What verse in the ‘hadith’ says it is OK to ‘LIE’ to your enemy?

    According to Islamic tradition, any half brother is considered ‘a brother’;
    Islam traces its ancestry line back to Abraham through Ishmael.
    Israelites also trace their ancestry line back to Abraham through Isaac.
    That means (according to Islamic tradition) you are a brother to them.

    Here is how the truth is exposed (1John 3:10-12).
    You either believe in “The Bible” or you believe the ‘hadith’; you cannot believe both!

    YHVH is GOD=117!

    (Isaiah 53:12)=(Ιησους=888)!

    I Will explain the meaning of [Isaiah 53:12] for you; it is the ‘UNAUTHENTIC’ name!

    Paul’s Greek-written manuscripts (fulfills the prophesy of Isaiah 53:12) having transcribed the
    Hebrew name [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă into Greek as [Ιησους] Ē-Ā-Soos. Note the similarity in pronunciation
    and Theomatic values for both Ē-Ā-Soos=74 and Jesus=74.  While Theomatics (Gematria) keeps
    mathematical connections in English, it tells nothing of GOD’s name [יה] YÄ being linguistically
    distanced further and further from His Word by re-transcribing a previous translation. Specifically,
    instead of transcribing the authentic Hebrew Name (יהשוע), the King James linguistics instead transcribed
    the Greek name for Jesus (Ιησους); which is UNAUTHENTIC because it is a “translation of a translation”. [יהשוע] translates into “English”=74 as [Joshua=74] YÄ-shoe-ă=74.

    Jesus’ authentic name [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă has a direct connection to GOD’s name [יה]
    in that YÄ is the first part of Jesus’ “REAL” name. GOD’s name is not vocalized
    in the English translation of the name Jesus and therefore misses the precise exactness
    and direct authentic connection to God’s Hebrew name [יה] YÄ. Jesus’ Name in Hebrew
    יהשוע means: (“YÄ is salvation” [יה]+[ישע]=[יהשוע]) the salvation of “GOD the Father”.
    [יהשוע] “Jesus” REAL name authentically establishes [יהוה] “JEHOVAH” as the highest Name.

    (Phil. 2:9,11: Wherefore [Holy Spirit=151] has highly exalted [Jesus=74] giving Him a name
    which is above every name, to the glory of [GOD The Father=117].) Neither is there salvation
    in any other name: for there is no other name given among men (יהשוע), whereby we must be
    saved. (Acts 4:12) People speaking fluent Hebrew know that in essence, [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă
    means: “YÄ is Savior”. The Name of [GOD=26] is [“יהוה”=26] spoken as [YÄ=26]; and “YÄ-hä-vā”!

    “The Savior”=117 is “GOD The Father”=117, (117=”יהוה האלהים” YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm)!
    And He is Savior to all who walk the ground! “JEHOVAH GOD”; and there is ‘NO’ other!

    In Chapter 23 of the free e-book, I have been writing about the very subject of your question. Here is your answer!

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the numbers 666, 222, & 888 all go together.
    These numbers make up (as I understand things) the un-holy trinity of Revelation.

    I know this is going to invoke some serious debate but (according to my understanding)
    Here is how the structure fits together mathematically [666+222=888], and Biblically…

    666=‘false prophet’ of (Rev.13:18)
    (Rev.13:11)

    222=‘antichrist’ of (1John 2:22)
    (Rev.13:1)

    888=‘great red dragon’: Satan’s=74 name ‘Lucifer’=74 (Isaiah 53:12 Ιησους=888 Ē-Ā-Soos=74)
    (Rev.12:3)

    Here is a Quote for you: “To not fully understand the enemy is to leave oneself blind”

    You claim to believe in both “The Bible” and ‘the Quran’; how is this possible?

    Ed J


    I have never studied the Hadith as it is not authoritive. The Quran is the revelation of God

    1 John 3:10-12

    John 3:10-12 (King James Version)

    10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    11For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

    12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

    What has been exposed? Of course we should love one another and strangers as well.

    The Quran is the book that makes the former scriptures clear and reveals things previously unknown.

    Satan does not make rules and Satan is not in a battle with God he is in a battle with Man. Satan is the avowed enemy of Man.

    What does your book actually teach or prove the Quran has a mathematical proof as well

    The Quran, which was revealed in A.D. 610-630, is the only scripture that is known to still exist in its original language, and form. It is also the only book known to be mathematically coded throughout.

    All the parameters of the Quran-the numbers and sequences of chapters; the number of verses; the numbers assigned to each verse; the number of words; the number of certain specified letters; the number of words from the same root; the number and variety of divine names; the absence of one or more letters from a word, verse or chapter; the unique and often strange spellings of certain crucial words; and many other elements-are all authenticated by its mathematical code.


    ◦HOW IT WAS DISCOVERED

    How was this code discovered in the Quran?

    Before we can answer that question we need to know a little about a unique feature in Quran-a phenomenon not found in any other literature. Twenty-nine chapters of the Quran are prefixed with certain letters of the Arabic alphabet, or `Quranic Initials.' Ever since the Quran was revealed more than 14 centuries ago, Muslim and orientalist scholars have been trying to decipher the meaning and possible significance of these mysterious Quranic initials, but to no avail. They remained a mystery to all.

    Finally, a Muslim scientist and computer expert named Rashad Khalifa entered the Quran into the computer in hopes of finding some pattern which would explain these initials. Khalifa, a Ph.D. chemist, later on the roster of sc
    ientists called `Technical Assistance Experts' with the United Nations Industrial Development Organization (UNIDO), began his computer study as part of the research for his translation of the Quran into English. The result of his extensive research was the discovery of an intricate mathematical system which pervades the whole Quran and governs every possible parameter, including its initials.

    Dr. Khalifa's discovery is extremely significant, especially since it matches the findings of Rabbi Judah the Pious. The common denominator of the Quran's mathematical code, the number nineteen, was reported by Rabbi Judah “in the liturgy, in the Scripture, in nature, in historical events and throughout the universe.”

    Thus, God's `signature,' the number nineteen, encodes and guarantees every letter and every parameter of the Quran, and intact portions of the Torah. It also places the Creator's stamp on our own creation, on major historical events, on the sun/moon/earth interactions and throughout the universe.

    1.There are 114 chapters in the Quran, or 19 x 6.

    2.The total number of verses in the Quran is 6346, or 19 x 334.

    3.Then you add the 30 different numbers which are mentioned in the Quran's text (i.e. one God, two brothers, etc.), the total is 162146 or 19 x 8534.

    4.The first statement in Quran, “In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful” consists of 19 Arabic letters. Known as the `Basmalah', it prefaces every chapter except Chapter 9.

    5.Though missing from Chapter 9, exactly 19 chapters later the Basmalah occurs twice. Chapter 27 has this statement at its beginning and in verse 30. This makes the total number of times the Basmalah occurs in the Quran 114, or 19 x 6.

    6.Since there are 19 chapters between the missing Basmalah and the extra one, the sum of those chapter numbers is a multiple of 19. (The sum of any 19 consecutive numbers is a multiple of 19.) But the total, 342, is also the exact number of words between the two occurrences of the Basmalah in Chapter 27. This number, 342, is 19 x 18.

    7.Every word in the Basmalah occurs throughout the Quran a number of times which is a multiple of 19.

    8.The very first revelation that was given to the prophet of Islam, Mohammed, came as 19 words.

    9.The total number of letters making up the 19 words of the first revelation is 76, 19 x 4.

    10.Though they were the first revelation, these verses are placed at the beginning of Chapter 96. This chapter is atop the last 19 chapters.

    11.Chapter 96 consists of 304 Arabic letters, or 19 x 16.

    12.The last chapter revealed (Chapter 110) has 19 words, and its first verse is 19 letters.

    13.God's name in Arabic, `Allah,' occurs in the Quran 2698 times, or 19 x 142.

    14.If you add the numbers of the verses where `Allah' occurs, the total is 118123 or 19 x 6217.

    15.The main message in the Quran is that there is only One God. The number of times that the word `one' is used to refer to this concept of One God is 19.

    For more go to the site:

    http://www.submission.org/miracle/history.html
    http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_03.html

    #155989
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,
    The Quran is of men.

    #155991
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,16:19)
    Hi BD,
    The Quran is of men.


    Why do you feel that way and what proof do you have?

    Simply show the proof if what you say is true, that would be best, for if you are right why should I believe in it so you must show me the proof right away.

    #155994
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,16:17)
    I have never studied the Hadith as it is not authoritive. The Quran is the revelation of God


    Hi BD,

    How do you explain Chapter 9?

    “To not fully understand the enemy is to leave oneself blind”

    Ed J

    #156001
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,14:17)

    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2009,14:00)

    Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 14 2009,03:13)
    The word was with God, was God, and was Made flesh.

    The glory was with God, was God, and was made flesh.

    Jesus is The Glory of God

    ——————————————————-

    There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three are one.

    There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, his Glory, and his Wisdom…and these three are one.

    Trinitarian when you understand it from a human perspective…but understanding that The Glory is not God himself, and the wisdom is not God himself…should help you understand Jesus and The Holy Spirit's position. That these two are PART of God but do not MAKE UP GOD.

    Yes Jesus pre-existed, this isn't a trinitarian view…this is a christian view…and it is established in The Bible.

    Creation was made through and by Jesus' Hand which as authored and issued by The Father…They both are and should be credited with creation.

    Anti-trinitarians you should esteem Jesus and The Holy Spirit as you do The Father, for they are one in in purpose and being.

    Trinitarians you should not take trinitarianism as a stance that Jesus is God himself in a human identity…Jesus is God's glory. And is a part of God.

    So when Jesus died on the cross, it was not God himself who died…but his glory…which the world was fashioned from.

    So it is equally as important and devastating that his Glory died on The Cross for the worlds were made from this Glory.

    Amen.


    Hi RM + Everybody else,

    What I see here is a lack of understanding, RokkaMan is truly on to something.
    And what I see is: people here on this post merely picking apart his faulty analogy.

    His analogy is similar to use a mirror to explain a person. Because a mirror is NOT a person,
    this where your debating all begins. You must NOT overlook (the essence) of his scenario.
    The same way when you look into a mirror you see a person;
    (((You see a person in the mirror)))!  This is the essence of his point,
    and it is a Good analogy!

    He does have some critical information missing, and also some of his words are out of place, though.
    But my point is NOT about anything faulty an anybody; my point is to help us all to better understand “GOD”,
    WHO'S NAME ALONE is: in English “YHVH” [[[ YÄ-hä-vā ]]]! (Psalm 83:13, 148:13)

    I have written a free internet e-book called “HolyCityBibleCode”, documenting The very proof of God’s existence.

    In Chapters 7, 8, 10, 11 and 12, I explain what I see everybody debating about.

    If “ANYBODY” takes the time to read those (relatively small) chapters;
    I will “then” illustrate the faultiness of “ANY” opposing view.

    God bless
    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    Why is that?


    Hi BD,

    “CHRIST”(77)=”GLORY”(77)

    That's why!

    Ed J

    #156064
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2009,16:38)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,16:17)
    I have never studied the Hadith as it is not authoritive. The Quran is the revelation of God


    Hi BD,

    How do you explain Chapter 9?

    “To not fully understand the enemy is to leave oneself blind”

    Ed J


    Chapter 9 of the Quran or your book?

    #156065
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2009,17:38)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,14:17)

    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2009,14:00)

    Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 14 2009,03:13)
    The word was with God, was God, and was Made flesh.

    The glory was with God, was God, and was made flesh.

    Jesus is The Glory of God

    ——————————————————-

    There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three are one.

    There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, his Glory, and his Wisdom…and these three are one.

    Trinitarian when you understand it from a human perspective…but understanding that The Glory is not God himself, and the wisdom is not God himself…should help you understand Jesus and The Holy Spirit's position. That these two are PART of God but do not MAKE UP GOD.

    Yes Jesus pre-existed, this isn't a trinitarian view…this is a christian view…and it is established in The Bible.

    Creation was made through and by Jesus' Hand which as authored and issued by The Father…They both are and should be credited with creation.

    Anti-trinitarians you should esteem Jesus and The Holy Spirit as you do The Father, for they are one in in purpose and being.

    Trinitarians you should not take trinitarianism as a stance that Jesus is God himself in a human identity…Jesus is God's glory. And is a part of God.

    So when Jesus died on the cross, it was not God himself who died…but his glory…which the world was fashioned from.

    So it is equally as important and devastating that his Glory died on The Cross for the worlds were made from this Glory.

    Amen.


    Hi RM + Everybody else,

    What I see here is a lack of understanding, RokkaMan is truly on to something.
    And what I see is: people here on this post merely picking apart his faulty analogy.

    His analogy is similar to use a mirror to explain a person. Because a mirror is NOT a person,
    this where your debating all begins. You must NOT overlook (the essence) of his scenario.
    The same way when you look into a mirror you see a person;
    (((You see a person in the mirror)))!  This is the essence of his point,
    and it is a Good analogy!

    He does have some critical information missing, and also some of his words are out of place, though.
    But my point is NOT about anything faulty an anybody; my point is to help us all to better understand “GOD”,
    WHO'S NAME ALONE is: in English “YHVH” [[[ YÄ-hä-vā ]]]! (Psalm 83:13, 148:13)

    I have written a free internet e-book called “HolyCityBibleCode”, documenting The very proof of God’s existence.

    In Chapters 7, 8, 10, 11 and 12, I explain what I see everybody debating about.

    If “ANYBODY” takes the time to read those (relatively small) chapters;
    I will “then” illustrate the faultiness of “ANY” opposing view.

    God bless
    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    Why is that?


    Hi BD,

    “CHRIST”(77)=”GLORY”(77)

    That's why!

    Ed J


    Jesus would = 74

    Glory would = 77

    are you confused about your own methods or did I calculate wrong?

    J=10 E=5 S=19 U=21 S=19

    Are you saying that Christ is not Jesus? You do know that Christ simply means anointed right?

    So how does Glory relate to Jesus according to your method?

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