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Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 17 2012,10:03) We agree and in the Quran Heaven is not granted to only Muslims or Christians or Jews Surely those who believe, and those who are jews, and the christians, and the sabians, whoever believes in Allah(God) and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #62)Nay! do those who have wrought evil deeds think that We will make them like those who believe and do good– that their life and their death shall be equal? Evil it is that they judge.
( سورة الجاثية , Al-Jathiya, Chapter #45, Verse #21)Say: The bad and the good are not equal, though the abundance of the bad may please you; so be careful of (your duty to) Allah, O men of understanding, that you may be successful.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #100)
Hi BD,Why do you keep pushing the 'book of fraud' here?
Do you push the “Book of truth” on muslim sites?B'shem
YHVHQuote (shimmer @ Feb. 17 2012,20:58) Bod, you either believe the words of Jesus and God, or the Quran. The choice is yours.
Amen!Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 17 2012,20:58) Bod, you either believe the words of Jesus and God, or the Quran. The choice is yours.
The choice is clear the Words of God and Christ are in the Bible and the Quran.You don't have to study the Quran to go to heaven but you will really never be clear on so many issues.
The Quran doesn't condemn Christians for not converting to Islam as long as they are good Christians it is only Christians who rush to condemn everyone else even though they all backslide by Judging when Jesus taught you all to Judge no one but I haven't found Many Christians who pay much attention to what Jesus actually taught. The most Judgemental people on earth are Christians they will even condemn other Christians for no other reason than being a different denomination no matter how good the person is.
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2012,21:36) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 17 2012,10:03) We agree and in the Quran Heaven is not granted to only Muslims or Christians or Jews Surely those who believe, and those who are jews, and the christians, and the sabians, whoever believes in Allah(God) and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #62)Nay! do those who have wrought evil deeds think that We will make them like those who believe and do good– that their life and their death shall be equal? Evil it is that they judge.
( سورة الجاثية , Al-Jathiya, Chapter #45, Verse #21)Say: The bad and the good are not equal, though the abundance of the bad may please you; so be careful of (your duty to) Allah, O men of understanding, that you may be successful.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #100)
Hi BD,Why do you keep pushing the 'book of fraud' here?
Do you push the “Book of truth” on muslim sites?B'shem
YHVH
EDI have joined several Muslim forums and quite frankly it's pretty harmony filled it's usually more focused on finding out what is really permissable or not which is good because it helps people get to the truth in the Quran rather than relying on cultural traditions that can be very opressive and no where to be found in the Quran
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2012,21:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 17 2012,03:11) Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 16 2012,19:44) Bod, if a God tormented people forever and ever without end, why worship that? What ARE you worshipping? What are your REASONS to worship?
It's funny you believe in eternal life of endless joy but you don't believe in the opposite so tell me how is it fair that anyone have eternal life and someone else doesn't regardless of where they end up? Think about it why should someone go to heaven for eternity that has done as much evil as someone else who won't.The thing is you don't understand so you rebel against the facts because you can't face them but who said that someone had to stay in hell forever they may only be in hell for a certain amount of time and others may never get out
One day will He gather them all together, (and say): “O ye assembly of Jinns! Much (toll) did ye take of men.” Their friends amongst men will say: “Our Lord! we made profit from each other: but (alas!) we reached our term – which thou didst appoint for us.” He will say: “The Fire be your dwelling-place: you will dwell therein for ever, except as God willeth.” for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge. S. 6:128
you see the Quran makes it clear that God may at His own discretion even retract someone from hell
Hi BD,Do you believe in:
72 virgins
300 boy slavesB'shem
YHVH
Its not in the QuranQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2012,21:32) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 17 2012,08:09) Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 17 2012,07:40) Bod, so, according to you, 'God at his own discretion can retract someone from hell'.
Is that what most Muslims believe? (I thought I read differently).Either way, the description of Hell in the Quran is just not right. So even if it was for a very very long time, it would seem an eternity to be burnt alive with no escape – in all types of different 'Liquids'. You KNOW what it says in the Quran, Bod.
If people had a choice to go to Heaven or Hell, do you think they would CHOOSE to go to Hell? (I mean, if someone asked you if they could torture you alive, would you willingly say 'Yes'?)
OK, so put people then into groups. Just say everyone on the planet did believe in a Burning Tormenting Torturing Hell. We would have:
1) Those who choose to go to Heaven. Because they want to – and are avoiding Hell.
2) Those who choose to go to Hell because (What would the reason be?) More than likely, they don't want to see their loved ones or ANYONE in there, so take a stand with them.
Now which group is 'Loving their Neighbour as themself'?
Is it not group two?
Is not group one thinking of only themself?Are they not worshipping a FALSE image of God (If God is love).
Are they not doing it because:
A) They are scared of going to Hell, and
B) They WANT to go to heaven?He who tries to save HIS OWN LIFE will lose it. (Luke 9:24)
The wages of sin is…DEATH.
And what is sin?Matt 22.35.
“One of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
This is the great and first commandment.
And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”John 15.13 and 17.
“Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you”.
“This I command you, to love one another”.And who was a liar from the beginning, and what did he say?
Jesus said of the Devil:
John 8.34.
“He was a MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him”.Gen 3.4.
“But the serpent said to the woman, “YOU WILL NOT DIE”. (Sounds familiar).God said:
Gen 3.19.
“In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”However, Romans 6.23.
“The wages of sin is death, but the FREE GIFT FROM GOD is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”.John 3.16.
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not PERISH but have eternal life.
For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.Rev 20.14.
“Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;
and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”.Bod, God has anger yes. God loves his people. But, God loves the whole world, because God is love. Do you agree with this?
The main problem I see with this issue with you is the Christian Idea that if someone doesn't accept Christ as their personal saviour they are going to hell so therefore you know people who don't do this and it makes you sad and you refuse to believe that that qualifies someone to eternal hell fire well I agree with you but the Quran does not say that in-fact if you read the Quran it is very difficult to Go to hell.Do you actually confuse a person who just tries to live their life the best they can even though they make mistakes with a person who practices evil purposely there is no comparison that's why Jesus said that the Tax collectors and the prostitutes well let me let him say it:
Matthew 21:31
King James Version (KJV)
31Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
The point is you see people one way and God sees people another way so you may feel its unjust for some people you know going to hell and you may be right and they weren't going to hell any way but do you really believe that evil should qualify as good?
Don't you believe some people deserve life in prison for commiting unexcuseable heinous crimes or do you believe people who are absolutely evil should be free and given the chance to do more evil?
Hi BD, you don't believe in the testimony, nor obey the Gospel?2 Thess 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed
from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel(see Gal.1:8) of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with
everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be
glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.B'shem
YHVH
2 Thess 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed
from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,More proof that Jesus hasn't returned unless you beliebve this happened already to. Thanks for the verses to further disprove your own theory
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,05:18) Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 17 2012,20:58) Bod, you either believe the words of Jesus and God, or the Quran. The choice is yours.
The choice is clear the Words of God and Christ are in the Bible and the Quran.You don't have to study the Quran to go to heaven but you will really never be clear on so many issues.
The Quran doesn't condemn Christians for not converting to Islam as long as they are good Christians it is only Christians who rush to condemn everyone else even though they all backslide by Judging when Jesus taught you all to Judge no one but I haven't found Many Christians who pay much attention to what Jesus actually taught. The most Judgemental people on earth are Christians they will even condemn other Christians for no other reason than being a different denomination no matter how good the person is.
BD,The quran is the 'book of fraud', BD. There's NO truth in there.
Jesus mother was NOT Aron's sister and Jesus WAS crucified.B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,05:23) ED I have joined several Muslim forums and quite frankly it's pretty harmony filled it's usually more focused on finding out what is really permissable or not which is good because it helps people get to the truth in the Quran rather than relying on cultural traditions that can be very opressive and no where to be found in the Quran
Hi BD,What is the answer to this question: do you push the “Book of truth” on muslim sites?
B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,05:25) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2012,21:24) Hi BD, Do you believe in:
72 virgins
300 boy slavesB'shem
YHVH
Its not in the Quran
Hi BD,I KNOW THAT, but that is not an answer to my question; so will you please answer?
B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,05:28) 2 Thess 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed
from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,More proof that Jesus hasn't returned unless you beliebve this happened already to. Thanks for the verses to further disprove your own theory
Hi BD,That's about The Day of The LORD
The Day of The LORD is not “Pentecost”.B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2012,08:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,05:23) ED I have joined several Muslim forums and quite frankly it's pretty harmony filled it's usually more focused on finding out what is really permissable or not which is good because it helps people get to the truth in the Quran rather than relying on cultural traditions that can be very opressive and no where to be found in the Quran
Hi BD,What is the answer to this question: do you push the “Book of truth” on muslim sites?
B'shem
YHVH
We always talk about the books of God, you do know that the bible is more than one book right?Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2012,08:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,05:28) 2 Thess 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed
from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,More proof that Jesus hasn't returned unless you beliebve this happened already to. Thanks for the verses to further disprove your own theory
Hi BD,That's about The Day of The LORD
The Day of The LORD is not “Pentecost”.B'shem
YHVH
So Jesus will be coming a third time?Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,07:18) Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 17 2012,20:58) Bod, you either believe the words of Jesus and God, or the Quran. The choice is yours.
The choice is clear the Words of God and Christ are in the Bible and the Quran.You don't have to study the Quran to go to heaven but you will really never be clear on so many issues.
Hi Bod. With what you said above,I never got the feeling that the same Author was behind the Quran as was in the Bible. Example, I know Jesus' words. I have been on Christian sites where people claim to be speaking the words of Jesus, and when I read them, I feel nothing. However, once or maybe twice, I was reading something and I felt a shiver go right through me, I felt the words of Jesus – maybe only one paragraph among a whole page of someone claiming to speak for Jesus, but I knew.
Quran – no – nothing!
I'm quite surprised you don't get the sense that something just isn't the same with the Quran?
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 18 2012,21:56) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,07:18) Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 17 2012,20:58) Bod, you either believe the words of Jesus and God, or the Quran. The choice is yours.
The choice is clear the Words of God and Christ are in the Bible and the Quran.You don't have to study the Quran to go to heaven but you will really never be clear on so many issues.
Hi Bod. With what you said above,I never got the feeling that the same Author was behind the Quran as was in the Bible. Example, I know Jesus' words. I have been on Christian sites where people claim to be speaking the words of Jesus, and when I read them, I feel nothing. However, once or maybe twice, I was reading something and I felt a shiver go right through me, I felt the words of Jesus – maybe only one paragraph among a whole page of someone claiming to speak for Jesus, but I knew.
Quran – no – nothing!
I'm quite surprised you don't get the sense that something just isn't the same with the Quran?
Some people are funny that way if they experience a miracle they will say Jesus did it but if you experience a miracle they will say it was satan its amazing what a mind set.I told you I felt from both of the books and you assume I didn't because you didn't. That's like someone not knowing how to read and then believes everyone else must be somehow faking it.
I don't doubt your experiences Shimmer but your experiences don't disqualify the experiences of others. If you were not ready to experience the Quran the way I was ready then the experience is going to be different.
With me I instantly knew it was from God and when any doubt came upon me God showed me the Bible verses that took away the doubt
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,12:53) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2012,08:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,05:23) ED I have joined several Muslim forums and quite frankly it's pretty harmony filled it's usually more focused on finding out what is really permissable or not which is good because it helps people get to the truth in the Quran rather than relying on cultural traditions that can be very opressive and no where to be found in the Quran
Hi BD,What is the answer to this question: do you push the “Book of truth” on muslim sites?
B'shem
YHVH
We always talk about the books of God, you do know that the bible is more than one book right?
Hi BD, what do you mean? (Gal.1:8 / 2Cor.11:14)Gal.1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
And no marvel; for Satan(al-Lah) himself is transformed into an angel of light.B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,12:54) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2012,08:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,05:28) 2 Thess 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed
from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,More proof that Jesus hasn't returned unless you beliebve this happened already to. Thanks for the verses to further disprove your own theory
Hi BD,That's about The Day of The LORD
The Day of The LORD is not “Pentecost”.B'shem
YHVH
So Jesus will be coming a third time?
Hi Bod,Rev 22:7,12 and 2Thess 1:8 are references to “The Day of The LORD”, not references to “Pentecost.
Rev 22:7,12 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 20 2012,02:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,12:54) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2012,08:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 18 2012,05:28) 2 Thess 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed
from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,More proof that Jesus hasn't returned unless you beliebve this happened already to. Thanks for the verses to further disprove your own theory
Hi BD,That's about The Day of The LORD
The Day of The LORD is not “Pentecost”.B'shem
YHVH
So Jesus will be coming a third time?
Hi Bod,Rev 22:7,12 and 2Thess 1:8 are references to “The Day of The LORD”, not references to “Pentecost.
Rev 22:7,12 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
B'shem
YHVH
So is Jesus coming a 3rd time or not?
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