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Quote (thehappyman @ Feb. 08 2012,10:05) Hi Nick,
Their was only one example that I can recall, Moses and Elijah and Jesus talking over something in Matt 17 :1 and they were not in the flesh. but in a transformed condition. I believe you may have it. But why the fight over the body? To save it from the desecration of that which is Holy ? and Paul said he had a friend whether in the spirit or not that he went to the third heaven. I choose to believe that it was in the spirit like you said no flesh and blood can make it to heaven.
Happyman,There is the event of the resurrection of the saints at the time Jesus died. It is recorded in Matthew 27:52-53.
Hi Kerwin and Pierre,
Yes, Matt: 27 ; but not ascended yet , Jesus is the Resurrection; therefore I have to agree that the archangel was preserving Mose's body from idolatry ref: Commentary and Pierre. Their is more question that lead to and surpass the tread. Any Ideas? anyone ?
Quote (thehappyman @ Feb. 09 2012,22:02) Hi Kerwin and Pierre,
Yes, Matt: 27 ; but not ascended yet , Jesus is the Resurrection; therefore I have to agree that the archangel was preserving Mose's body from idolatry ref: Commentary and Pierre. Their is more question that lead to and surpass the tread. Any Ideas? anyone ?
HmAre getting Enoch in mind ?
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2012,04:54) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 08 2012,15:22) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2012,03:12) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 08 2012,12:45) Quote (thehappyman @ Feb. 07 2012,22:24) Hi Pierre and Kerwin,
The three that I know went to heaven Enoch, Elijah, Jesus ; and only two did not taste death. I believe their obedience and their relationship with God. But why the body ? is the 64 dollar question. Why do Catholics have a special ceremony concerning the dead.?
Happy-man,I am not familiar with the Catholic ceremony but I believe Scripture speaks of a transformation from the mortal fleshly body from earth to the immortal fleshly body from heaven. In this case the later transformation of the body of Moses would result in his being returned to life.
He later had a conversation with Jesus before the later's students and they believed he had a flesh body.
It may be that God has chosen to transform the flesh of earth to the flesh of heaven instead of creating the flesh of heaven from something else. The something could be nothing as all things are possible with God.
kerwinare starting to believe in fairy tale,
it is true whit God all is possible but from us to go to him their are rules and they are in scriptures and reveled to the true worshiper,if you do not believe his words then you are already dead.
Pierre
Pierre,I know that what I wrote disagrees with what you have been taught but observations in scriptures also disagree with what you have been taught. I spoke of those observations.
I also speculated about why the dispute over the body of Moses.
krewinQuote observations in scriptures also disagree with what you have been taught. I spoke of those observations. is it this
; but from us to go to him their are rules and they are in scriptures and reveled to the true worshiper,if you do not believe his words then you are already dead.If so I will show you the scriptures ,
Pierre
Pierre,One passage comes from Matthew and speaks of the resurrection of the saints at the time Jesus died. They arose from their graves with bodies though their flesh may well have seen decay.
Do you believe that event occurred?
Quote (thehappyman @ Feb. 09 2012,10:02) Hi Kerwin and Pierre,
Yes, Matt: 27 ; but not ascended yet , Jesus is the Resurrection; therefore I hwrote earave to agree that the archangel was preserving Mose's body from idolatry ref: Commentary and Pierre. Their is more question that lead to and surpass the tread. Any Ideas? anyone ?
Happyman,The only accounts of humans who ascended are when Moses and Elijah were observed speaking with Jesus as you wrote earlier.
I spoke of those that underwent the second resurrection or ascended without need of doing so.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 09 2012,22:52) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2012,04:54) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 08 2012,15:22) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2012,03:12) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 08 2012,12:45) Quote (thehappyman @ Feb. 07 2012,22:24) Hi Pierre and Kerwin,
The three that I know went to heaven Enoch, Elijah, Jesus ; and only two did not taste death. I believe their obedience and their relationship with God. But why the body ? is the 64 dollar question. Why do Catholics have a special ceremony concerning the dead.?
Happy-man,I am not familiar with the Catholic ceremony but I believe Scripture speaks of a transformation from the mortal fleshly body from earth to the immortal fleshly body from heaven. In this case the later transformation of the body of Moses would result in his being returned to life.
He later had a conversation with Jesus before the later's students and they believed he had a flesh body.
It may be that God has chosen to transform the flesh of earth to the flesh of heaven instead of creating the flesh of heaven from something else. The something could be nothing as all things are possible with God.
kerwinare starting to believe in fairy tale,
it is true whit God all is possible but from us to go to him their are rules and they are in scriptures and reveled to the true worshiper,if you do not believe his words then you are already dead.
Pierre
Pierre,I know that what I wrote disagrees with what you have been taught but observations in scriptures also disagree with what you have been taught. I spoke of those observations.
I also speculated about why the dispute over the body of Moses.
krewinQuote observations in scriptures also disagree with what you have been taught. I spoke of those observations. is it this
; but from us to go to him their are rules and they are in scriptures and reveled to the true worshiper,if you do not believe his words then you are already dead.If so I will show you the scriptures ,
Pierre
Pierre,One passage comes from Matthew and speaks of the resurrection of the saints at the time Jesus died. They arose from their graves with bodies though their flesh may well have seen decay.
Do you believe that event occurred?
What you thinkHi Pierre and Kerwin ,
Jehovah chooses how our bodies are to look like. But by Matt: once in a transfigured state they can look like you Pierre or me or themselves. Now we can get on a guessing game as to what they look like, yet, we can stand in one accord that “with God all things are possible.” Except God breaking His own covenant with us.
Kerwin , I don't quite understand your remark ( I spoke of those that underwent the second resurrection or ascended without need of doing so. ) Would you reword that for me?
thanks.
Quote (thehappyman @ Feb. 09 2012,16:06) Hi Pierre and Kerwin ,
Jehovah chooses how our bodies are to look like. But by Matt: once in a transfigured state they can look like you Pierre or me or themselves. Now we can get on a guessing game as to what they look like, yet, we can stand in one accord that “with God all things are possible.” Except God breaking His own covenant with us.
Kerwin , I don't quite understand your remark ( I spoke of those that underwent the second resurrection or ascended without need of doing so. ) Would you reword that for me?
thanks.
Happyman,Scripture speaks of some that have undergone the second resurrection but have not yet ascended at the time they are mentioned in scripture, Jesus and the saints in Matthew 27.
Scripture also speaks of those that were transformed and ascended without undergoing the second resurrection, Elijah and Enoch.
In addition it speaks of Moses who both underwent the second resurrection and ascended.
I made an error by addressing all three groups when you were referring to just to scriptures which spoke of those whom had already ascended.
Hi KW,
Earth returns to earth.
The body is of the dust of earth.Jesus Christ is the Word.
Feed on the WordThank you , Kerwin I see ,
Hi Nick, ….
Are you stating that Jesus flesh did not make it to heaven ? Or anyone in the flesh?
If that is so, then where is His flesh gone ? and why fight over the body of Moses?
I believe that the word of God does answer many question but I also believe that there are many thing yet to be told us and I love the seeking and am learning about other people points of view. Sister Irene taught me that….Hi HM,
We are told that our flesh is covered by the new body[1cor 15]if we are alive when he returns.
We follow Jesus.hi Nick;
I Cor 15 = a quickening body according to the will of God . Good answer and I agree.
but to stay on the question why fight over the body is because of idolatry, I have to agree with Pierre and Kerwin and you that no flesh is in heaven where Jesus sits.Happyman,
I believe there is flesh in heaven but it is not the flesh of earth. I also do not believe that flesh is spirit because the souls in the land of the dead already have a spirit body. Beyond that I can only state the flesh of heaven is immortal.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 11 2012,11:57) Happyman, I believe there is flesh in heaven but it is not the flesh of earth. I also do not believe that flesh is spirit because the souls in the land of the dead already have a spirit body. Beyond that I can only state the flesh of heaven is immortal.
kerwindo not invent stuff ,the spirit being have a body but we do not know what is the material of it ,so stick to scriptures.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 11 2012,01:41) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 11 2012,11:57) Happyman, I believe there is flesh in heaven but it is not the flesh of earth. I also do not believe that flesh is spirit because the souls in the land of the dead already have a spirit body. Beyond that I can only state the flesh of heaven is immortal.
kerwindo not invent stuff ,the spirit being have a body but we do not know what is the material of it ,so stick to scriptures.
Pierre,You fail to understand Scriptures if you do not understand that the soul awaits final judgement in Sheol. If you understand that then you know that soul has a spirit body in Sheol.
Psalm 16
King James Version (KJV)10For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
The flesh of God's holy one has hope. What does he hope for?
Psalm 16
King James Version (KJV)9Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2012,04:14) Hi KW,
Yes those verses speak of Jesus and how his flesh did not see corruption.
Nick,Flesh that changes from mortal to immortal does not see corruption. That is a hope of flesh that rests in the grave.
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