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did the people of Israel TURN to God so that they may be rescued?
NO THEY ALWAYS SCREWED UP.
prophet after prophet after prophet was sent so that THEY MAY KNOW that they have REDEEMER
ready to save them if only they would TURN,
but they wouldnt, they had no desire too.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 23 2010,18:36) to add: did the people of Israel TURN to God so that they may be rescued?
NO THEY ALWAYS SCREWED UP.
prophet after prophet after prophet was sent so that THEY MAY KNOW that they have REDEEMER
ready to save them if only they would TURN,
but they wouldnt, they had no desire too.
Why wouldn't the REDEEMER himself just show up in person,
instead of expecting everyone to believe prophet after
prophet after prophet?Tim
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 23 2010,18:34) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 21 2010,20:12) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 21 2010,15:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 21 2010,03:25) You are simply holding to your position out of habit, Did Jesus pay the price for those who do not believe at all and if so why do you try to convert them to believe if the price has been paid already belief is not an issue. Are you a calvanist? Those who believe that all men are naturally depraved? It's quite a position that I think is “sick” and does not take into account that God made man good:)
Belief is the issue as i said, knowing God and Jesus Christ is eternal salvation.No i am not. I belive that man are capable of doing good only THROUGH God, and without him we are basically nothing.
God made man orginally Good, we are the ones who chose to be in a state of seperation from God.
So you say we chose to be seperate from God but you don't believe that we can choose to not be seperate from God?God says according to the scriptures that when you turn to HIM he will turn to you. Why don't you believe that?
Look what God says to Jeremiah
Jeremiah 15:20 (New International Version)
20 I will make you a wall to this people,
a fortified wall of bronze;
they will fight against you
but will not overcome you,
for I am with you
to rescue and save you,”
declares the LORD.There is no seperation there. You should give up this belief it is untrue and not in the scriptures at all.
Was Mary seperated from God?
bod, we made a choice that corrupted everything that we are, and the image we had.we became something else that God didnt want us to become.
WE become dependant on Sin and living without God, and doing what pleases oursleves.
we became the godless creatures that Hated God.
from there on we had no desire to please God.
we all have fallen short to be able to.Like i said Bod, we must KNOW God and JESUS Christ who he has sent, this is eternal life.
Because he is the cause for you to even turn to him.
Who said i didnt believe it!It is scriptural! lol
Its everywhere how we are carnally minded and how we are in a carnal mind,
Paul talks abuot this all over the book of Romans how we ALL need Jesus.Where do you think im getting this from?
From the book of romans itself.Did Mary ever Sin?
If God cannot tolerate sin do you think he placed Jesus in sin if so he was also born with sin. Mary is still genetically linked to Jesus. If she was born a sinner than so was he.It's simply bad theology.
John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit in his mothers womb and was born consecrated to God, he baptized Jesus in what way did John ever sin? Jesus even said that no man born of woman is greater than John the baptist. Jesus was born of woman so how do you get around that?
Quote (TimothyVI @ Sep. 23 2010,15:14) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 23 2010,18:36) to add: did the people of Israel TURN to God so that they may be rescued?
NO THEY ALWAYS SCREWED UP.
prophet after prophet after prophet was sent so that THEY MAY KNOW that they have REDEEMER
ready to save them if only they would TURN,
but they wouldnt, they had no desire too.
Why wouldn't the REDEEMER himself just show up in person,
instead of expecting everyone to believe prophet after
prophet after prophet?Tim
The People of Israel were suppose to be the Holy Nation the Prophet of the World,
God sent Prophets to Israel, and on two occastions to Ninve which was part of Syria.God goal was always about having everyone come back to him, thats why Israel was created out of nothing to be his people.
The Prophets were to bring them back to their purpose,
than they even had Judges,
But they wanted a King instead, and God gave them their king, because they did not reject the Judge, but God himself and wanted to be like the rest of the world.
So than he gave the Saul, and made a Promise to redeem them.Point is that everything that God did for them, and through all their efforts it was proven that they could not consisntely be faithful to God, though one generation got close the next screwed up.
As soon as he showed them that they needed a redeemer thats when he sent one in the perfect time.
In other words, if someone is slave, and you want to set them free, if they dont realize the difference between bondage and liberty could they ever say they needed a saviour?
Just like the people of Egypt who were slaves and were finally free continued to live in Bondage because thats all they knew, they doubted God even though they WITNESSED his Wonders and his plagues upon Egypt, they continuely gossiped and cursed and complained even though Manna fell from heaven daily and they followed a big cloud in the day and a ball of fire at night.
Slavery is in your belief, in your faith.
You are what you believe.God wrote a story, that lead up to the Hero of all times.
The hero is never late, nor early, but just in time.Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 23 2010,17:31) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 23 2010,18:34) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 21 2010,20:12) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 21 2010,15:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 21 2010,03:25) You are simply holding to your position out of habit, Did Jesus pay the price for those who do not believe at all and if so why do you try to convert them to believe if the price has been paid already belief is not an issue. Are you a calvanist? Those who believe that all men are naturally depraved? It's quite a position that I think is “sick” and does not take into account that God made man good:)
Belief is the issue as i said, knowing God and Jesus Christ is eternal salvation.No i am not. I belive that man are capable of doing good only THROUGH God, and without him we are basically nothing.
God made man orginally Good, we are the ones who chose to be in a state of seperation from God.
So you say we chose to be seperate from God but you don't believe that we can choose to not be seperate from God?God says according to the scriptures that when you turn to HIM he will turn to you. Why don't you believe that?
Look what God says to Jeremiah
Jeremiah 15:20 (New International Version)
20 I will make you a wall to this people,
a fortified wall of bronze;
they will fight against you
but will not overcome you,
for I am with you
to rescue and save you,”
declares the LORD.There is no seperation there. You should give up this belief it is untrue and not in the scriptures at all.
Was Mary seperated from God?
bod, we made a choice that corrupted everything that we are, and the image we had.we became something else that God didnt want us to become.
WE become dependant on Sin and living without God, and doing what pleases oursleves.
we became the godless creatures that Hated God.
from there on we had no desire to please God.
we all have fallen short to be able to.Like i said Bod, we must KNOW God and JESUS Christ who he has sent, this is eternal life.
Because he is the cause for you to even turn to him.
Who said i didnt believe it!It is scriptural! lol
Its everywhere how we are carnally minded and how we are in a carnal mind,
Paul talks abuot this all over the book of Romans how we ALL need Jesus.Where do you think im getting this from?
From the book of romans itself.Did Mary ever Sin?
If God cannot tolerate sin do you think he placed Jesus in sin if so he was also born with sin. Mary is still genetically linked to Jesus. If she was born a sinner than so was he.It's simply bad theology.
John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit in his mothers womb and was born consecrated to God, he baptized Jesus in what way did John ever sin? Jesus even said that no man born of woman is greater than John the baptist. Jesus was born of woman so how do you get around that?
Jesus was never “Born” in Sin.
He was born out of a virgin birth that automatically excludes him from any of that.
Actually someone directly begotten from God regardless if they were born of a woman, would not suggest he was born into sin.
Espeacialy with your Defintion of “Sin”.I love it Bod, how i make points and even more points, but you never directly answer each thing i said. You say its bad theology concerning what?
He didnt refute what Paul said in romans,
he didnt refute alot of things, but just continue your case how its bad theolgoy, yet you dont refute.So John the Baptist was not born directly from the Holy Spirt as Jesus was. Elisabeth was married and was barren. She was not a virgin, the woman was married.
So now your saying John the Baptist is greater than Jesus.
Wow i mean you really dont read your bible much.“notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he”
here is the part you left out Bod of your point.
Man Bod i have correct almost all the scripture that you are using most of the time, you use it out of context and trying to prove weird points that have nothing to do with the bible.
Again what did PAUL say Bod?
Was John Perfect? if he was than he didnt NEED Jesus.
If anyone is perfect and Righteous than they DONT need Jesus.but thats the problem that NO one Righteous enough and Consistant,
everyone has a Flaw, whether in Character or personality, or even choices.How do you know that John never sinned or never made a mistake? are you saying he was NOT human?
Romans 2: 1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Romans 3:9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Is this not in the Quran, Doesnt it also state in the Quran that you must interpret scriptures but also consider the bible?
How is it BAD THEOLGOY if its not my ideas, but the Ideas that were written by Paul the Apostle, the Defender of the gentiles.
Paul is saying the same as i am.
How do you ignore this?
Romans 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
This is the Gospel brother,
Im sure that you have not read the book of Romans,
You should read it, its a good place to start.27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,09:12) Quote (TimothyVI @ Sep. 23 2010,15:14) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 23 2010,18:36) to add: did the people of Israel TURN to God so that they may be rescued?
NO THEY ALWAYS SCREWED UP.
prophet after prophet after prophet was sent so that THEY MAY KNOW that they have REDEEMER
ready to save them if only they would TURN,
but they wouldnt, they had no desire too.
Why wouldn't the REDEEMER himself just show up in person,
instead of expecting everyone to believe prophet after
prophet after prophet?Tim
The People of Israel were suppose to be the Holy Nation the Prophet of the World,
God sent Prophets to Israel, and on two occastions to Ninve which was part of Syria.God goal was always about having everyone come back to him, thats why Israel was created out of nothing to be his people.
The Prophets were to bring them back to their purpose,
than they even had Judges,
But they wanted a King instead, and God gave them their king, because they did not reject the Judge, but God himself and wanted to be like the rest of the world.
So than he gave the Saul, and made a Promise to redeem them.Point is that everything that God did for them, and through all their efforts it was proven that they could not consisntely be faithful to God, though one generation got close the next screwed up.
As soon as he showed them that they needed a redeemer thats when he sent one in the perfect time.
In other words, if someone is slave, and you want to set them free, if they dont realize the difference between bondage and liberty could they ever say they needed a saviour?
Just like the people of Egypt who were slaves and were finally free continued to live in Bondage because thats all they knew, they doubted God even though they WITNESSED his Wonders and his plagues upon Egypt, they continuely gossiped and cursed and complained even though Manna fell from heaven daily and they followed a big cloud in the day and a ball of fire at night.
Slavery is in your belief, in your faith.
You are what you believe.God wrote a story, that lead up to the Hero of all times.
The hero is never late, nor early, but just in time.
If sin still remains and the devil still roams about like a lion seeking whom he may devour then the day has not been saved or one except by individuals conquering evil inside themselves just like God told Cain to do.Now having faith in God and his Prophets/Messengers does assist the person in overcoming the evil impulse but you know yourself Jesus has not taken that evil impulse away from you because it belongs to you but do you know why?
—————————————http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/human.htm
When Genesis 2:7 says “God formed man,” it uses the Hebrew word vayyitzer (“formed”). The Talmud finds special meaning in the unique spelling of the word in this context, with two yods instead of one. The two yods, the rabbis explain, stand for the two impulses found in humans: the yetzer tov and the yetzer ra.
According to this view, the yetzer tov is the moral conscience that reminds a person of God's law when one considers a specific action or choice. The yetzer ra is the impulse to satisfy one's own needs and desires. There is nothing intrinsically evil about the yetzer ra, as it was created by God and is natural to humankind. It is also what drives us to good things such as eating, drinking, having a family, and making a living. However, it can easily lead to sin when not kept in check by the yetzer tov.
The idea of human free will is fundamental to Judaism. The concept of original sin is rejected, and every person has the ability to choose good or evil.
The following rabbinical teaching is illustrative of the Jewish view of the soul:
This may be compared to the case of a king who had an orchard containing excellent early figs, and he placed there two watchmen, one lame and the other blind. He said to them: “Be careful with these fine early figs.” After some days the lame man said to the blind one: “I see fine early figs in the orchard.” Said the blind man to him: “Come let us eat them.” “Am I then able to walk?” said the lame man. “Can I then see?” retorted the blind man. The lame man got astride the blind man, and thus they ate the early figs and sat down again each in his place.After some days the king came into that vineyard and said to them: “Where are the fine early figs?” The blind man replied: “My lord, the king, can I then see?” The lame man replied: “My lord the king, can I then walk?” What did the king, who was a man of insight, do with them? He placed the lame man astride the blind man, and they began to move about. Said the king to them: “Thus have you done, and eaten the early figs.”
Even so will the Holy One, blessed be God, in the time to come, say to the soul: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the soul will answer: O Master of the universe, it is not I that sinned, but the body it is that sinned. Why, since leaving it, I am like a clean bird flying through the air. As for me, how have I sinned?” God will also say to the body: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the body will reply: “O Master of the universe, not I have sinned, the soul it is that has sinned. Why, since it left me, I am cast about like a stone thrown upon the ground. Have I then sinned before You?”
What will the Holy One, blessed be God, do to them? God will bring the soul and force it into the body, and judge both as one.
(Leviticus Rabbah 4:5)
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,03:45) If sin still remains and the devil still roams about like a lion seeking whom he may devour then the day has not been saved or one except by individuals conquering evil inside themselves just like God told Cain to do. Now having faith in God and his Prophets/Messengers does assist the person in overcoming the evil impulse but you know yourself Jesus has not taken that evil impulse away from you because it belongs to you but do you know why?
—————————————http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/human.htm
When Genesis 2:7 says “God formed man,” it uses the Hebrew word vayyitzer (“formed”). The Talmud finds special meaning in the unique spelling of the word in this context, with two yods instead of one. The two yods, the rabbis explain, stand for the two impulses found in humans: the yetzer tov and the yetzer ra.
According to this view, the yetzer tov is the moral conscience that reminds a person of God's law when one considers a specific action or choice. The yetzer ra is the impulse to satisfy one's own needs and desires. There is nothing intrinsically evil about the yetzer ra, as it was created by God and is natural to humankind. It is also what drives us to good things such as eating, drinking, having a family, and making a living. However, it can easily lead to sin when not kept in check by the yetzer tov.
The idea of human free will is fundamental to Judaism. The concept of original sin is rejected, and every person has the ability to choose good or evil.
The following rabbinical teaching is illustrative of the Jewish view of the soul:
This may be compared to the case of a king who had an orchard containing excellent early figs, and he placed there two watchmen, one lame and the other blind. He said to them: “Be careful with these fine early figs.” After some days the lame man said to the blind one: “I see fine early figs in the orchard.” Said the blind man to him: “Come let us eat them.” “Am I then able to walk?” said the lame man. “Can I then see?” retorted the blind man. The lame man got astride the blind man, and thus they ate the early figs and sat down again each in his place.After some days the king came into that vineyard and said to them: “Where are the fine early figs?” The blind man replied: “My lord, the king, can I then see?” The lame man replied: “My lord the king, can I then walk?” What did the king, who was a man of insight, do with them? He placed the lame man astride the blind man, and they began to move about. Said the king to them: “Thus have you done, and eaten the early figs.”
Even so will the Holy One, blessed be God, in the time to come, say to the soul: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the soul will answer: O Master of the universe, it is not I that sinned, but the body it is that sinned. Why, since leaving it, I am like a clean bird flying through the air. As for me, how have I sinned?” God will also say to the body: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the body will reply: “O Master of the universe, not I have sinned, the soul it is that has sinned. Why, since it left me, I am cast about like a stone thrown upon the ground. Have I then sinned before You?”
What will the Holy One, blessed be God, do to them? God will bring the soul and force it into the body, and judge both as one.
(Leviticus Rabbah 4:5)
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,09:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,03:45) If sin still remains and the devil still roams about like a lion seeking whom he may devour then the day has not been saved or one except by individuals conquering evil inside themselves just like God told Cain to do. Now having faith in God and his Prophets/Messengers does assist the person in overcoming the evil impulse but you know yourself Jesus has not taken that evil impulse away from you because it belongs to you but do you know why?
—————————————http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/human.htm
When Genesis 2:7 says “God formed man,” it uses the Hebrew word vayyitzer (“formed”). The Talmud finds special meaning in the unique spelling of the word in this context, with two yods instead of one. The two yods, the rabbis explain, stand for the two impulses found in humans: the yetzer tov and the yetzer ra.
According to this view, the yetzer tov is the moral conscience that reminds a person of God's law when one considers a specific action or choice. The yetzer ra is the impulse to satisfy one's own needs and desires. There is nothing intrinsically evil about the yetzer ra, as it was created by God and is natural to humankind. It is also what drives us to good things such as eating, drinking, having a family, and making a living. However, it can easily lead to sin when not kept in check by the yetzer tov.
The idea of human free will is fundamental to Judaism. The concept of original sin is rejected, and every person has the ability to choose good or evil.
The following rabbinical teaching is illustrative of the Jewish view of the soul:
This may be compared to the case of a king who had an orchard containing excellent early figs, and he placed there two watchmen, one lame and the other blind. He said to them: “Be careful with these fine early figs.” After some days the lame man said to the blind one: “I see fine early figs in the orchard.” Said the blind man to him: “Come let us eat them.” “Am I then able to walk?” said the lame man. “Can I then see?” retorted the blind man. The lame man got astride the blind man, and thus they ate the early figs and sat down again each in his place.After some days the king came into that vineyard and said to them: “Where are the fine early figs?” The blind man replied: “My lord, the king, can I then see?” The lame man replied: “My lord the king, can I then walk?” What did the king, who was a man of insight, do with them? He placed the lame man astride the blind man, and they began to move about. Said the king to them: “Thus have you done, and eaten the early figs.”
Even so will the Holy One, blessed be God, in the time to come, say to the soul: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the soul will answer: O Master of the universe, it is not I that sinned, but the body it is that sinned. Why, since leaving it, I am like a clean bird flying through the air. As for me, how have I sinned?” God will also say to the body: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the body will reply: “O Master of the universe, not I have sinned, the soul it is that has sinned. Why, since it left me, I am cast about like a stone thrown upon the ground. Have I then sinned before You?”
What will the Holy One, blessed be God, do to them? God will bring the soul and force it into the body, and judge both as one.
(Leviticus Rabbah 4:5)
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Are you trying to justify sin? There is no need to be in bondage to sin.And Paul expressing his own weakness is no excuse for you to believe that Paul is stating that you should see it that way. Paul says that he is admittedly wretched he is not saying that everyone is wretched so you are taking a viewpoint and making it a doctrine for all people.
He said “bringing me into captivity” he was not talking about all men so how can you see it this way?
Jesus said that there were the righteous and there were sinners, can you show me where Jesus said all men were sinners?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,04:23) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,09:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,03:45) If sin still remains and the devil still roams about like a lion seeking whom he may devour then the day has not been saved or one except by individuals conquering evil inside themselves just like God told Cain to do. Now having faith in God and his Prophets/Messengers does assist the person in overcoming the evil impulse but you know yourself Jesus has not taken that evil impulse away from you because it belongs to you but do you know why?
—————————————http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/human.htm
When Genesis 2:7 says “God formed man,” it uses the Hebrew word vayyitzer (“formed”). The Talmud finds special meaning in the unique spelling of the word in this context, with two yods instead of one. The two yods, the rabbis explain, stand for the two impulses found in humans: the yetzer tov and the yetzer ra.
According to this view, the yetzer tov is the moral conscience that reminds a person of God's law when one considers a specific action or choice. The yetzer ra is the impulse to satisfy one's own needs and desires. There is nothing intrinsically evil about the yetzer ra, as it was created by God and is natural to humankind. It is also what drives us to good things such as eating, drinking, having a family, and making a living. However, it can easily lead to sin when not kept in check by the yetzer tov.
The idea of human free will is fundamental to Judaism. The concept of original sin is rejected, and every person has the ability to choose good or evil.
The following rabbinical teaching is illustrative of the Jewish view of the soul:
This may be compared to the case of a king who had an orchard containing excellent early figs, and he placed there two watchmen, one lame and the other blind. He said to them: “Be careful with these fine early figs.” After some days the lame man said to the blind one: “I see fine early figs in the orchard.” Said the blind man to him: “Come let us eat them.” “Am I then able to walk?” said the lame man. “Can I then see?” retorted the blind man. The lame man got astride the blind man, and thus they ate the early figs and sat down again each in his place.After some days the king came into that vineyard and said to them: “Where are the fine early figs?” The blind man replied: “My lord, the king, can I then see?” The lame man replied: “My lord the king, can I then walk?” What did the king, who was a man of insight, do with them? He placed the lame man astride the blind man, and they began to move about. Said the king to them: “Thus have you done, and eaten the early figs.”
Even so will the Holy One, blessed be God, in the time to come, say to the soul: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the soul will answer: O Master of the universe, it is not I that sinned, but the body it is that sinned. Why, since leaving it, I am like a clean bird flying through the air. As for me, how have I sinned?” God will also say to the body: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the body will reply: “O Master of the universe, not I have sinned, the soul it is that has sinned. Why, since it left me, I am cast about like a stone thrown upon the ground. Have I then sinned before You?”
What will the Holy One, blessed be God, do to them? God will bring the soul and force it into the body, and judge both as one.
(Leviticus Rabbah 4:5)
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Are you trying to justify sin? There is no need to be in bondage to sin.And Paul expressing his own weakness is no excuse for you to believe that Paul is stating that you should see it that way. Paul says that he is admittedly wretched he is not saying that everyone is wretched so you are taking a viewpoint and making it a doctrine for all people.
He said “bringing me into captivity” he was not talking about all men so how can you see it this way?
Jesus said that there were the righteous and there were sinners, can you show me where Jesus said all men were sinners?
John 3:16 and bump for my other post that i made towards you.
Jesus died for the World.
There is no one that is Righteous and anyone who CLIAMS to be Righteous is a person that says that they DONT need Jesus.Thats why Jesus said that, and you are using it out of context.
I already explained how Paul said how Jew and Gentile alike were all Sinners.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,10:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,04:23) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,09:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,03:45) If sin still remains and the devil still roams about like a lion seeking whom he may devour then the day has not been saved or one except by individuals conquering evil inside themselves just like God told Cain to do. Now having faith in God and his Prophets/Messengers does assist the person in overcoming the evil impulse but you know yourself Jesus has not taken that evil impulse away from you because it belongs to you but do you know why?
—————————————http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/human.htm
When Genesis 2:7 says “God formed man,” it uses the Hebrew word vayyitzer (“formed”). The Talmud finds special meaning in the unique spelling of the word in this context, with two yods instead of one. The two yods, the rabbis explain, stand for the two impulses found in humans: the yetzer tov and the yetzer ra.
According to this view, the yetzer tov is the moral conscience that reminds a person of God's law when one considers a specific action or choice. The yetzer ra is the impulse to satisfy one's own needs and desires. There is nothing intrinsically evil about the yetzer ra, as it was created by God and is natural to humankind. It is also what drives us to good things such as eating, drinking, having a family, and making a living. However, it can easily lead to sin when not kept in check by the yetzer tov.
The idea of human free will is fundamental to Judaism. The concept of original sin is rejected, and every person has the ability to choose good or evil.
The following rabbinical teaching is illustrative of the Jewish view of the soul:
This may be compared to the case of a king who had an orchard containing excellent early figs, and he placed there two watchmen, one lame and the other blind. He said to them: “Be careful with these fine early figs.” After some days the lame man said to the blind one: “I see fine early figs in the orchard.” Said the blind man to him: “Come let us eat them.” “Am I then able to walk?” said the lame man. “Can I then see?” retorted the blind man. The lame man got astride the blind man, and thus they ate the early figs and sat down again each in his place.After some days the king came into that vineyard and said to them: “Where are the fine early figs?” The blind man replied: “My lord, the king, can I then see?” The lame man replied: “My lord the king, can I then walk?” What did the king, who was a man of insight, do with them? He placed the lame man astride the blind man, and they began to move about. Said the king to them: “Thus have you done, and eaten the early figs.”
Even so will the Holy One, blessed be God, in the time to come, say to the soul: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the soul will answer: O Master of the universe, it is not I that sinned, but the body it is that sinned. Why, since leaving it, I am like a clean bird flying through the air. As for me, how have I sinned?” God will also say to the body: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the body will reply: “O Master of the universe, not I have sinned, the soul it is that has sinned. Why, since it left me, I am cast about like a stone thrown upon the ground. Have I then sinned before You?”
What will the Holy One, blessed be God, do to them? God will bring the soul and force it into the body, and judge both as one.
(Leviticus Rabbah 4:5)
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Are you trying to justify sin? There is no need to be in bondage to sin.And Paul expressing his own weakness is no excuse for you to believe that Paul is stating that you should see it that way. Paul says that he is admittedly wretched he is not saying that everyone is wretched so you are taking a viewpoint and making it a doctrine for all people.
He said “bringing me into captivity” he was not talking about all men so how can you see it this way?
Jesus said that there were the righteous and there were sinners, can you show me where Jesus said all men were sinners?
John 3:16 and bump for my other post that i made towards you.
Jesus died for the World.
There is no one that is Righteous and anyone who CLIAMS to be Righteous is a person that says that they DONT need Jesus.Thats why Jesus said that, and you are using it out of context.
I already explained how Paul said how Jew and Gentile alike were all Sinners.
You are incorrect. Do you believe what the Bible says or not?God called many, many people righteous.
When Paul says no one is righteous he was quoting the old testament verse about those who say there is no God it is about Atheist:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14:1-3The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:1-3Also you keep reading the texts that you read in a very wide way of course Jews like Gentiles sin but that isn't the same as All Jews and Gentiles are sinners.
Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
John 9:30-32It doesn't say any Jew or any gentile or any Pharisee or any Muslim or any Catholic it says ANY MAN.
So you have simply misunderstood that's all.
Do you understand? A worshipper of God is NOT a SINNER
And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
Genesis 18:22-24God spared the righteous and destroyed the wicked at sdom and Gomorah these are facts.
Let the lying lips be put to silence; which speak grievous things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous.
Psalm 31:17-19It's right before your eyes will you see it or remain blind
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,06:50) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,10:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,04:23) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,09:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,03:45) If sin still remains and the devil still roams about like a lion seeking whom he may devour then the day has not been saved or one except by individuals conquering evil inside themselves just like God told Cain to do. Now having faith in God and his Prophets/Messengers does assist the person in overcoming the evil impulse but you know yourself Jesus has not taken that evil impulse away from you because it belongs to you but do you know why?
—————————————http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/human.htm
When Genesis 2:7 says “God formed man,” it uses the Hebrew word vayyitzer (“formed”). The Talmud finds special meaning in the unique spelling of the word in this context, with two yods instead of one. The two yods, the rabbis explain, stand for the two impulses found in humans: the yetzer tov and the yetzer ra.
According to this view, the yetzer tov is the moral conscience that reminds a person of God's law when one considers a specific action or choice. The yetzer ra is the impulse to satisfy one's own needs and desires. There is nothing intrinsically evil about the yetzer ra, as it was created by God and is natural to humankind. It is also what drives us to good things such as eating, drinking, having a family, and making a living. However, it can easily lead to sin when not kept in check by the yetzer tov.
The idea of human free will is fundamental to Judaism. The concept of original sin is rejected, and every person has the ability to choose good or evil.
The following rabbinical teaching is illustrative of the Jewish view of the soul:
This may be compared to the case of a king who had an orchard containing excellent early figs, and he placed there two watchmen, one lame and the other blind. He said to them: “Be careful with these fine early figs.” After some days the lame man said to the blind one: “I see fine early figs in the orchard.” Said the blind man to him: “Come let us eat them.” “Am I then able to walk?” said the lame man. “Can I then see?” retorted the blind man. The lame man got astride the blind man, and thus they ate the early figs and sat down again each in his place.After some days the king came into that vineyard and said to them: “Where are the fine early figs?” The blind man replied: “My lord, the king, can I then see?” The lame man replied: “My lord the king, can I then walk?” What did the king, who was a man of insight, do with them? He placed the lame man astride the blind man, and they began to move about. Said the king to them: “Thus have you done, and eaten the early figs.”
Even so will the Holy One, blessed be God, in the time to come, say to the soul: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the soul will answer: O Master of the universe, it is not I that sinned, but the body it is that sinned. Why, since leaving it, I am like a clean bird flying through the air. As for me, how have I sinned?” God will also say to the body: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the body will reply: “O Master of the universe, not I have sinned, the soul it is that has sinned. Why, since it left me, I am cast about like a stone thrown upon the ground. Have I then sinned before You?”
What will the Holy One, blessed be God, do to them? God will bring the soul and force it into the body, and judge both as one.
(Leviticus Rabbah 4:5)
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Are you trying to justify sin? There is no need to be in bondage to sin.And Paul expressing his own weakness is no excuse for you to believe that Paul is stating that you should see it that way. Paul says that he is admittedly wretched he is not saying that everyone is wretched so you are taking a viewpoint and making it a doctrine for all people.
He said “bringing me into captivity” he was not talking about all men so how can you see it this way?
Jesus said that there were the righteous and there were sinners, can you show me where Jesus said all men were sinners?
John 3:16 and bump for my other post that i made towards you.
Jesus died for the World.
There is no one that is Righteous and anyone who CLIAMS to be Righteous is a person that says that they DONT need Jesus.Thats why Jesus said that, and you are using it out of context.
I already explained how Paul said how Jew and Gentile alike were all Sinners.
You are incorrect. Do you believe what the Bible says or not?God called many, many people righteous.
When Paul says no one is righteous he was quoting the old testament verse about those who say there is no God it is about Atheist:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14:1-3The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:1-3Also you keep reading the texts that you read in a very wide way of course Jews like Gentiles sin but that isn't the same as All Jews and Gentiles are sinners.
Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
John 9:30-32It doesn't say any Jew or any gentile or any Pharisee or any Muslim or any Catholic it says ANY MAN.
So you have simply misunderstoo
d that's all.Do you understand? A worshipper of God is NOT a SINNER
And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
Genesis 18:22-24God spared the righteous and destroyed the wicked at sdom and Gomorah these are facts.
Let the lying lips be put to silence; which speak grievous things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous.
Psalm 31:17-19It's right before your eyes will you see it or remain blind
lol what the heck Bod,
how did i Misunderstand?
So thats your proof to say that i misunderstood?
Thats it?The question is DO YOU BELIEVE what the bible says or not.
Compare how many people who existed from the beginning and until now, the people that you state that are rightoues are a remnant.Ok show me a Quote?
Where is this Quote?
Show me who was called Righteous?
Prove to me he was relating to these scritpures?
HOW AM I READING IT IN A WIDE VERSION?
Haha really?Romans 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:This is in the direct Context of the Jew and Gentile verse.
AGAIN you ignored this post that i first sent you.John 9-30-32 -Can you not read Context Bod?
Do you realize your quoteing a Pharasie questioning the blind man (who can now see) if Jesus was a sinner or not.?
REally??????
WEllllll the verse you quote doesnt prove anything, Im quoting the WHOLE Romans book and you cant seem to refute it.No, you have misunderstood it all, and keep on using Scriptures wrong.
Can you at least admit your using all the context and scriptures wrong, because you have.
Can you understand that the Devil even worshipd God at one time and he still chose to leave him?
ill give you another lesson in Romans.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
They knew God and left him.
GOD DID NOT SPARE ANYONE RIGHTEOUS FROM SODOM AND GOMORAH!
This is A LIE!!
The only one saved from Sodom and Gomorah was Lot and his family!
Abraham pleaded from 50 til 10 people if they were at least ten people for him NOT to Destroy the City.
Guess what there werent even TEN.
Four left that city,
The Mother/Wife of Lot DIED when she turned and watch the destruction of the City.
The two DAUGHTERS of Lot were IDIOiTS Who thought to themselves to be the last women alive and slept with there OWN Father while he was drunk. Is this RIGHTEOUSNESS? REALLY?Wow is this your evidence?
No brother,
If i were to read your post alone, i would believe you, but when i go back to the bible and read the context and read what REALLY happened, its obvious that your lying, and you wish to twist anything to fit your way. Its Disceiving, IN all honestly I believe every word you say UNTIL i go read the bible and actualy look for myself what it says.I have called you out severval times about the biblical text you have used incorrectly.
And you have done it again.
Your lying and twisting scripture to fit your imaginations of your heart that you see as justified but they are not.Here is what the Lord said from Genesis
Gensis 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Is this more proof for you?
Even the Lords says that your imaginations of your heart are evil sinced your YOUTH.All i been doing is quoeting scripture and you call me BLIND?
If it wasnt for the bible i would have believed you, thank God i went go read for myself, and see that your clearly in error.Proverbs 16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes, but the Lord weigheth the spirits.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
You have blinded your self, dont be a fool.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,13:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,06:50) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,10:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,04:23) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,09:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,03:45) If sin still remains and the devil still roams about like a lion seeking whom he may devour then the day has not been saved or one except by individuals conquering evil inside themselves just like God told Cain to do. Now having faith in God and his Prophets/Messengers does assist the person in overcoming the evil impulse but you know yourself Jesus has not taken that evil impulse away from you because it belongs to you but do you know why?
—————————————http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/human.htm
When Genesis 2:7 says “God formed man,” it uses the Hebrew word vayyitzer (“formed”). The Talmud finds special meaning in the unique spelling of the word in this context, with two yods instead of one. The two yods, the rabbis explain, stand for the two impulses found in humans: the yetzer tov and the yetzer ra.
According to this view, the yetzer tov is the moral conscience that reminds a person of God's law when one considers a specific action or choice. The yetzer ra is the impulse to satisfy one's own needs and desires. There is nothing intrinsically evil about the yetzer ra, as it was created by God and is natural to humankind. It is also what drives us to good things such as eating, drinking, having a family, and making a living. However, it can easily lead to sin when not kept in check by the yetzer tov.
The idea of human free will is fundamental to Judaism. The concept of original sin is rejected, and every person has the ability to choose good or evil.
The following rabbinical teaching is illustrative of the Jewish view of the soul:
This may be compared to the case of a king who had an orchard containing excellent early figs, and he placed there two watchmen, one lame and the other blind. He said to them: “Be careful with these fine early figs.” After some days the lame man said to the blind one: “I see fine early figs in the orchard.” Said the blind man to him: “Come let us eat them.” “Am I then able to walk?” said the lame man. “Can I then see?” retorted the blind man. The lame man got astride the blind man, and thus they ate the early figs and sat down again each in his place.After some days the king came into that vineyard and said to them: “Where are the fine early figs?” The blind man replied: “My lord, the king, can I then see?” The lame man replied: “My lord the king, can I then walk?” What did the king, who was a man of insight, do with them? He placed the lame man astride the blind man, and they began to move about. Said the king to them: “Thus have you done, and eaten the early figs.”
Even so will the Holy One, blessed be God, in the time to come, say to the soul: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the soul will answer: O Master of the universe, it is not I that sinned, but the body it is that sinned. Why, since leaving it, I am like a clean bird flying through the air. As for me, how have I sinned?” God will also say to the body: “Why have you sinned before Me?” and the body will reply: “O Master of the universe, not I have sinned, the soul it is that has sinned. Why, since it left me, I am cast about like a stone thrown upon the ground. Have I then sinned before You?”
What will the Holy One, blessed be God, do to them? God will bring the soul and force it into the body, and judge both as one.
(Leviticus Rabbah 4:5)
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Are you trying to justify sin? There is no need to be in bondage to sin.And Paul expressing his own weakness is no excuse for you to believe that Paul is stating that you should see it that way. Paul says that he is admittedly wretched he is not saying that everyone is wretched so you are taking a viewpoint and making it a doctrine for all people.
He said “bringing me into captivity” he was not talking about all men so how can you see it this way?
Jesus said that there were the righteous and there were sinners, can you show me where Jesus said all men were sinners?
John 3:16 and bump for my other post that i made towards you.
Jesus died for the World.
There is no one that is Righteous and anyone who CLIAMS to be Righteous is a person that says that they DONT need Jesus.Thats why Jesus said that, and you are using it out of context.
I already explained how Paul said how Jew and Gentile alike were all Sinners.
You are incorrect. Do you believe what the Bible says or not?God called many, many people righteous.
When Paul says no one is righteous he was quoting the old testament verse about those who say there is no God it is about Atheist:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14:1-3The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:1-3Also you keep reading the texts that you read in a very wide way of course Jews like Gentiles sin but that isn't the same as All Jews and Gentiles are sinners.
Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any m
an be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
John 9:30-32It doesn't say any Jew or any gentile or any Pharisee or any Muslim or any Catholic it says ANY MAN.
So you have simply misunderstood that's all.
Do you understand? A worshipper of God is NOT a SINNER
And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
Genesis 18:22-24God spared the righteous and destroyed the wicked at sdom and Gomorah these are facts.
Let the lying lips be put to silence; which speak grievous things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous.
Psalm 31:17-19It's right before your eyes will you see it or remain blind
lol what the heck Bod,
how did i Misunderstand?
So thats your proof to say that i misunderstood?
Thats it?The question is DO YOU BELIEVE what the bible says or not.
Compare how many people who existed from the beginning and until now, the people that you state that are rightoues are a remnant.Ok show me a Quote?
Where is this Quote?
Show me who was called Righteous?
Prove to me he was relating to these scritpures?
HOW AM I READING IT IN A WIDE VERSION?
Haha really?Romans 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:This is in the direct Context of the Jew and Gentile verse.
AGAIN you ignored this post that i first sent you.John 9-30-32 -Can you not read Context Bod?
Do you realize your quoteing a Pharasie questioning the blind man (who can now see) if Jesus was a sinner or not.?
REally??????
WEllllll the verse you quote doesnt prove anything, Im quoting the WHOLE Romans book and you cant seem to refute it.No, you have misunderstood it all, and keep on using Scriptures wrong.
Can you at least admit your using all the context and scriptures wrong, because you have.
Can you understand that the Devil even worshipd God at one time and he still chose to leave him?
ill give you another lesson in Romans.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
They knew God and left him.
GOD DID NOT SPARE ANYONE RIGHTEOUS FROM SODOM AND GOMORAH!
This is A LIE!!
The only one saved from Sodom and Gomorah was Lot and his family!
Abraham pleaded from 50 til 10 people if they were at least ten people for him NOT to Destroy the City.
Guess what there werent even TEN.
Four left that city,
The Mother/Wife of Lot DIED when she turned and watch the destruction of the City.
The two DAUGHTERS of Lot were IDIOiTS Who thought to themselves to be the last women alive and slept with there OWN Father while he was drunk. Is this RIGHTEOUSNESS? REALLY?Wow is this your evidence?
No brother,
If i were to read your post alone, i would believe you, but when i go back to the bible and read the context and read what REALLY happened, its obvious that your lying, and you wish to twist anything to fit your way. Its Disceiving, IN all honestly I believe every word you say UNTIL i go read the bible and actualy look for myself what it says.I have called you out severval times about the biblical text you have used incorrectly.
And you have done it again.
Your lying and twisting scripture to fit your imaginations of your heart that you see as justified but they are not.Here is what the Lord said from Genesis
Gensis 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Is this more proof for you?
Even the Lords says that your imaginations of your heart are evil sinced your YOUTH.All i been doing is quoeting scripture and you call me BLIND?
If it wasnt for the bible i would have believed you, thank God i went go read for myself, and see that your clearly in error.Proverbs 16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes, but the Lord weigheth the spirits.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
You have blinded your self, dont be a fool.
And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Genesis 7:1-3Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
Exodus 23:6-8You do believe that the wicked has been justified by Jesus
2 Samuel 22:24-26 (King James Version)
24I was also upright before him, and have kept myself from mine iniquity.
25Therefore the LORD hath recompensed me according to my righteousness; according to my cleanness in his eye sight.
26With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful, and with the upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright.You don't believe these verses
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 1:7-9God HIMSELF says that Job was PERFECT and UPRIGHT but can you believe God or not?
Quote 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. This is my point, when did you know God and praise HIM not? or not be thankful? If you have done these things than may God forgive you but it is not like that with everyone and that scripture is not talking about everyone but you keep wanting it to mean everyone. There are people who grew up praising God from birth.
He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
Matthew 10:40-42Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy 1:8-10Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
James 5:15-17You keep believing what is not right, but you still can't see and if Jesus was trying to save the world why did GOD say:
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their
eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Isaiah 6:9-11and Jesus later quoted Isaiah:
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Mark 4:11-13Please don't just throw away what I am teaching you it is the truth. Pray about it.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 25 2010,09:03) And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Genesis 7:1-3Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
Exodus 23:6-8You do believe that the wicked has been justified by Jesus
2 Samuel 22:24-26 (King James Version)
24I was also upright before him, and have kept myself from mine iniquity.
25Therefore the LORD hath recompensed me according to my righteousness; according to my cleanness in his eye sight.
26With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful, and with the upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright.You don't believe these verses
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 1:7-9God HIMSELF says that Job was PERFECT and UPRIGHT but can you believe God or not?
Quote 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. This is my point, when did you know God and praise HIM not? or not be thankful? If you have done these things than may God forgive you but it is not like that with everyone and that scripture is not talking about everyone but you keep wanting it to mean everyone. There are people who grew up praising God from birth.
He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
Matthew 10:40-42Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy 1:8-10Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
James 5:15-17You keep believing what is not right, but you still can't see and if Jesus was trying to save the world why did GOD say:
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Isaiah 6:9-11and Jesus later quoted Isaiah:
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Mark 4:11-13Please don't just throw away what I am teaching you it is the truth. Pray about it.
Bod, how was Noah Righteous other than him being open to God, and obidiant thats it.Everything goes around this scripture.
2Samuel22:33God is my strength and power: and he maketh my way perfect.
I do believe scripture and we are talking about David who was not perfect nor consistently righeous. he did Sin and its a fact that he commited adultry and lied about it.
Abuot Job,
Elihu the Fourth speaker who was a Young servant of Job the last person to speak to Job, told Job how he was not righteous and not just, and said it many times within the next chapters.
Job 33:9 I am clean without transgression, I am innocent; neither is there iniquity in me.
10Behold, he findeth occasions against me, he counteth me for his enemy,
11He putteth my feet in the stocks, he marketh all my paths.
12Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.When did we know of God and praised him not?
Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Who has praised God from Birth? and even while praising him still sin? If we are flawed, and since we all are flawed, we all did not love God accordingly, we all failed.
Matthew is in example of what Jesus was refering in the context:
Matt 10:38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
1 timonthy 1:8-10
The Law made nothing Perfect!
Hebrews 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
There was a rich man who wanted to be saved who followed the Law, but since he did not give out all his riches, he ended up not folllowing Jesus, to follow the law does not make you righteous, to follow Jesus will cause you bear good fruit.james 5:
and how was that man righteous Through Jesus brother.
confess faults? what do you think that means?
These are people who NEED Jesus, who deny themselves and follow him.in Isaiah was when Isaish was commissioned to do Gods work to preach to Israel,
and Mark 4- you know thats related to the parable and how they got there right?
I dont have to throw away anything the bible itself already exposes you.
You shouldnt teach me, I look for the spirit of Truth for God to teach me.
And im sorry to say that i dont see it in your writings.I shoudlnt believe you, but i am a gullable person and i beleive every word because of who i am, but what exposes you is not me nor my beliefs, but The Word it self.
I have realized through the Word that you have not spoken truth.
You are bold to say it, and I hate telling people that they are wrong, and i hate hurting people,But Bod you are confused, and you are twisting scripture.
Im a Young man, You could have desceived me.
IF it was my Cousin, or my brother or sister, you wuold have disceived them, and they would have believed you, the same about anyone who does not search the scriptures and most of the Youth are not wise and do not know much about the bible.I dont need to know much, but since i Checked everything you post, i know you are not speakign Truth.
If i was someone else you would have confused me.
If i didnt check i would have to believe you.Thank God that there is a God that told me to search the Scriptures.
Im more than ready for God to tell me i am wrong.
Are you?have your realized you have twisted scriptures?
I dont want to hurt you,
But you are doing something wrong, and your older than me, and you should know better.
your my senior, im sure you can Read Context, and im sure you know what those scriptures really mean and what they relate too.Your beyond my years, im sure your wiser and have more experience than I,
and have better grammtical writing and so many other aspects th
at only living it could give you,how is it that you who cliams to be stuidous and doer of the Word could not interpret Scripture correctly or purposely used it to fit your goal.
I can either conclude that you made an honest mistake,
or your a desciever and did that purpously to confuse me.Am i Lying?
Can u call me a liar?
I Am telling you The Truth, not based on my own understanding but based solelty on what scripture is saying.
Yet you deny it,
Dont throw away Truth for Tradition Bod, Dont make God into something corruptiable.
Your smart, you should know better,dont become one of these people
“Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools”Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,15:58) Bod, how was Noah Righteous other than him being open to God, and obidiant thats it. Everything goes around this scripture.
2Samuel22:33God is my strength and power: and he maketh my way perfect.
I do believe scripture and we are talking about David who was not perfect nor consistently righeous. he did Sin and its a fact that he commited adultry and lied about it.
Abuot Job,
Elihu the Fourth speaker who was a Young servant of Job the last person to speak to Job, told Job how he was not righteous and not just, and said it many times within the next chapters.
Job 33:9 I am clean without transgression, I am innocent; neither is there iniquity in me.
10Behold, he findeth occasions against me, he counteth me for his enemy,
11He putteth my feet in the stocks, he marketh all my paths.
12Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.When did we know of God and praised him not?
Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Who has praised God from Birth? and even while praising him still sin? If we are flawed, and since we all are flawed, we all did not love God accordingly, we all failed.
Matthew is in example of what Jesus was refering in the context:
Matt 10:38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
1 timonthy 1:8-10
The Law made nothing Perfect!
Hebrews 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
There was a rich man who wanted to be saved who followed the Law, but since he did not give out all his riches, he ended up not folllowing Jesus, to follow the law does not make you righteous, to follow Jesus will cause you bear good fruit.james 5:
and how was that man righteous Through Jesus brother.
confess faults? what do you think that means?
These are people who NEED Jesus, who deny themselves and follow him.in Isaiah was when Isaish was commissioned to do Gods work to preach to Israel,
and Mark 4- you know thats related to the parable and how they got there right?
I dont have to throw away anything the bible itself already exposes you.
You shouldnt teach me, I look for the spirit of Truth for God to teach me.
And im sorry to say that i dont see it in your writings.I shoudlnt believe you, but i am a gullable person and i beleive every word because of who i am, but what exposes you is not me nor my beliefs, but The Word it self.
I have realized through the Word that you have not spoken truth.
You are bold to say it, and I hate telling people that they are wrong, and i hate hurting people,But Bod you are confused, and you are twisting scripture.
Im a Young man, You could have desceived me.
IF it was my Cousin, or my brother or sister, you wuold have disceived them, and they would have believed you, the same about anyone who does not search the scriptures and most of the Youth are not wise and do not know much about the bible.I dont need to know much, but since i Checked everything you post, i know you are not speakign Truth.
If i was someone else you would have confused me.
If i didnt check i would have to believe you.Thank God that there is a God that told me to search the Scriptures.
Im more than ready for God to tell me i am wrong.
Are you?have your realized you have twisted scriptures?
I dont want to hurt you,
But you are doing something wrong, and your older than me, and you should know better.
your my senior, im sure you can Read Context, and im sure you know what those scriptures really mean and what they relate too.Your beyond my years, im sure your wiser and have more experience than I,
and have better grammtical writing and so many other aspects that only living it could give you,how is it that you who cliams to be stuidous and doer of the Word could not interpret Scripture correctly or purposely used it to fit your goal.
I can either conclude that you made an honest mistake,
or your a desciever and did that purpously to confuse me.Am i Lying?
Can u call me a liar?
I Am telling you The Truth, not based on my own understanding but based solelty on what scripture is saying.
Yet you deny it,
Dont throw away Truth for Tradition Bod, Dont make God into something corruptiable.
Your smart, you should know better,dont become one of these people
“Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools”Quote Abuot Job,
Elihu the Fourth speaker who was a Young servant of Job the last person to speak to Job, told Job how he was not righteous and not just, and said it many times within the next chapters.Now pay attention:
For Job hath said, I am righteous: and God hath taken away my judgment.
Job 34:4-6and at the end of the Job despite all his friends said and accused Job of what happened? God said to Job's friends who were trying to convince him he was a sinner:
Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.
Job 42:7-9You see Job was right he was righteous and we have trials and tribulations not because we are sinners as Job's friends believed that Job was being persecuted because of some sin he had done but God said His ways are only known to HIM
Now after you know that God said Job was right how do you say that I am not telling you the truth: Job said he was Righteous and God said Job was right. Do you believe the truth now?
As I said before did you notice God did not call Cain a sinner he advised him on how to not be a sinner but cain did not Master sin so he sinned. If he was already a sinner would God have said that Cain could Rule Over Sin?
Bod,
Now Pay attention old man,
For There is a MORE perfect way that you clearly do not understand, You want to prove that Man can be righeous without God, and this is a lie, being good in our own eyes is never righteous.Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.
2Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God. 3Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.
Why Did Elihu who was fillled with the Spirit of God get angry? because Job did make a mistake, he justified HIMSELF, he thought only of his Righteousness! There is fault in him brother.33:8Surely thou hast spoken in mine hearing, and I have heard the voice of thy words, saying,
9I am clean without transgression, I am innocent; neither is there iniquity in me.
10Behold, he findeth occasions against me, he counteth me for his enemy,
11He putteth my feet in the stocks, he marketh all my paths.
12Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.
Are you learning anything yet Bod?
Job 34:35Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.
36My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.
37For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.
Do you see what Elihu who had the spirit of the Lord with him accused Job of? was he wrong? of course not, he was moved by the Spirit as he spoke truth.
Job justified himself rather than God, and said he did not deserve what he received, but are the ways of man are like the way of God?
35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?3For thou saidst, What advantage will it be unto thee? and, What profit shall I have, if I be cleansed from my sin?
4I will answer thee, and thy companions with thee.
5Look unto the heavens, and see; and behold the clouds which are higher than thou.
6If thou sinnest, what doest thou against him? or if thy transgressions be multiplied, what doest thou unto him?
7If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of thine hand?
16Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain; he multiplieth words without knowledge.
More about how Elihu proved his case how Job spoke without even knowing anything about anything.Job 38
1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
Look who also agrees with Elihu! Its God who also says that Job knows nothing, what does he need to be righteous about?Job 42:1
Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
2I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
3Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
4Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
5I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
6Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
Here Job himself admitted his faults and was kept SILENT.Here is alot to learn from Job,
Like Job you claim to be righteous from birth,
But their is fault within you,
Rather than Justify God you search the scriptures to justify yourself and the remnant who believe themselves to be righteous from birth.But i will show you who are the chosen ones of God,
God chose the foolish people
1 Corinthians 1
18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.God chose the foolish to destroy the wise of this world.
You must deny yourself Bod,You said you submit to God and thats what makes you a Muslim,
This is not true for yourself,
Becuase you have not denied yourself and continue to search scriptures to prove the Righteousness of Men, you have proved that you are unjust, and that you do have fault.
You must submit to God, and not gloify yourself but give all honor an Glory to God.The question is Do you believe the Truth now?
About Cain,
Genesis 4:13
And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear
Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
1 John 3:12
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Jude 1:11
Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.The Truth is before your eyes And i have used all the word of God to prove it,
How much more do i have to show you,
im not just picking and cutting and twisiting scripture like you,
but again the Word of God exposes you,Will you not Listen?
Quote Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.You have now proven to yourself my point thakns to the Spirit of God that has helped you.
ABEL OBTAINED WITNESS THAT HE WAS RIGHTEOUS BY THE TESTIMONY of GOD OF HIS GIFTS.
Do you agree with the testimony of God or not?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 26 2010,00:27) Quote Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.You have now proven to yourself my point thakns to the Spirit of God that has helped you.
ABEL OBTAINED WITNESS THAT HE WAS RIGHTEOUS BY THE TESTIMONY of GOD OF HIS GIFTS.
Do you agree with the testimony of God or not?
Oh My Bod,
lol Your looking for anyway out arnt you?
Why was Abel righteous? what did he do that cain didnt do?
What made him righteous?
What happened?Was he perfect and without flaws?
Now listen and I will teach you,
Sin does not make someone unrighteous only whether they will progress in their teaching makes them righteous:
Job 36:22 (King James Version)
22Behold, God exalteth by his power: who teacheth like him?Since God is therefore a teacher one is expected to learn so as God is willing to teach we must be willing to learn and this is how we can be perfect and righteous.
This includes Jesus Christ:
Hebrews 5:8 (King James Version)
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;I don't know if you are of those who believe that Jesus is God but if you are that is part of your misunderstanding unless you believe that God has learned through obedience.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 26 2010,06:32) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 26 2010,00:27) Quote Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.You have now proven to yourself my point thakns to the Spirit of God that has helped you.
ABEL OBTAINED WITNESS THAT HE WAS RIGHTEOUS BY THE TESTIMONY of GOD OF HIS GIFTS.
Do you agree with the testimony of God or not?
Oh My Bod,
lol Your looking for anyway out arnt you?
Why was Abel righteous? what did he do that cain didnt do?
What made him righteous?
What happened?Was he perfect and without flaws?
Quote God testifying of his gifts Do you not believe the testimony of GOD?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 26 2010,00:48) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 26 2010,06:32) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 26 2010,00:27) Quote Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.You have now proven to yourself my point thakns to the Spirit of God that has helped you.
ABEL OBTAINED WITNESS THAT HE WAS RIGHTEOUS BY THE TESTIMONY of GOD OF HIS GIFTS.
Do you agree with the testimony of God or not?
Oh My Bod,
lol Your looking for anyway out arnt you?
Why was Abel righteous? what did he do that cain didnt do?
What made him righteous?
What happened?Was he perfect and without flaws?
Quote God testifying of his gifts Do you not believe the testimony of GOD?
Do you not believed that he tesitfied about his Gifts?
Do you not believe that Job was righteous in his own way?
Did these men Die?Yet God said he was righteous,
but yet inquity was still found in him.
Your ignoring the whole book of Romans brother,
I have proved to you my case,
You simply do not want to believe that all have come short of the glory of God
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