Monogenes

[Proclaimer]

To WorshippingJesus.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2007,17:13)

t8 No faulty reasoning. Read the scriptures, there is Only one True God.

Great you admit as such.

Now combine that with the fact that this one true God sent his son.

Can you see that? Can you at least throw away your pride and admit that?

Of course we both know that there is one true God, but you also have to reconcile the fact that men and angels are referred to in scripture as elohim and theos and that Paul acknowledges that indeed there are many gods and many lords. In the context of angels, we know that is in not stating that they are false gods because they are told to “worship God all ye gods” and it is also unlikely that it is referring to false gods when talking of men because they were not claiming to be God.

So if your philosophy cannot handle all scripture, then maybe you need to change something.

What I believe caters for all scripture, not just some. I have made sure that scripture changes me, not me changing scripture.

What about you? Are you willing to let scripture change you? After all it is revealed from God himself and accepting what he says is obedience and obedience is love.

There are many gods, but there is one God of all and that God is even the God of Jesus Christ.

There are many lords such as landlords, lords over regions, cities, nations, kingdoms, etc. But there is one Lord of all.

God the Father is the true God over all. Jesus Christ is the true Lord over all. God also made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

But if you want to continue to let the Trinity doctrine poison scripture for you, then that is your choice. But remember that false teaching will incur a harsher judgement.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 26 2007,08:29)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2007,08:19) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 26 2007,07:39) Yes, but IYO in what sense were/are they “sons”? Hi Is 1.18, Because God was their father and He called them his sons.. Yes, but in what sense was God their Father?

Hi Is 1.18,
Do we really have to prove the words of God?

If God calls angels His sons but you discover they are created does that make them no longer sons of God?

Does that make you right and God wrong?

[Is 1:18]

Just trying to establish whether you believe that they were “sons” in the same sense that the pre-incarnate Yeshua was, that's all. I take it that, to you, they are not.

It would really help if you just give us concise statements of what it is you believe some times, otherwise we are perpetually trying to make sense of seemingly contradictory assertions.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
The Monogenes Son was unique.
The firstborn Son, an image begotten of God alone.
The other created sons came through him as did all creation.

[NickHassan]

Hi P,
Different from GENNAO

[Not3in1]

Nick wrote:
The firstborn Son, an image begotten of God alone
********************

I'm curious; why is Jesus the image of his Father only? Doesn't Mary get any credit for contributing her DNA?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
The Son was sent into the world[1jn4]
So he was a son begotten of God alone before he partook of flesh through Mary.
That made him also son of man.

[Not3in1]

God can “beget” by himself? Where does it say that?

[Not3in1]

So, Jesus is a reincarnated Son of Man?

Jesus is not a son of Man like you, Nick? He is a different breed? Set apart, and not made like you?

Does his temptations mean anything to you, then? I'm curious – as a man – how do you relate to Jesus then?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 02 2007,08:14)

God can “beget” by himself?  Where does it say that?

Hi not3,
Monogenes.
Try ps 2

[NickHassan]

Hi Not3,
If Christ was not a man then scripture lies.

Acts 2
“22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

If he was not made like us we cannot follow him
Heb 2
“17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

[Not3in1]

Nick wrote:

So he was a son begotten of God alone before he partook of flesh through Mary

***********************

Hi Nick, maybe I wasn't very clear. I do believe that Jesus is a man. My question/concern for you is this: Can God “beget” alone?

I believe the answer is no. He can create – clearly. But to “beget” a Son – he needed Mary. And if he needed Mary, logic tells us that he (Jesus) could not have existed before he “took on flesh.”

And again………..do you have any other passages other than Philippians to back up your faith in this incarnation (of sorts) of Jesus?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 26 2007,10:46)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2007,02:56) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2007,09:53) Hi Is 1.18, Only one son was begotten but the others are sons too, though created and without mums. Scripture calls all of them sons and so I do too. NH Yea, well scriptures call Jesus God and you dont call him God. So again the scriptures are apparently for you to form your  “own doctrine” rather than letting the scriptures be your doctrine. Faulty reasoning WorshippingJesus. Men and angels are called elohim. Men are also called theos. So if you reasoning were correct, then you better start preaching that men and angels are YHWH. Of course we know better don't we. So why inflict us with this reasoning if it doesn't work as demonstrated above?

t8

John 1:1 has nothing to do with angels or men!

[NickHassan]

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 02 2007,18:26)

Nick wrote: So he was a son begotten of God alone before he partook of flesh through Mary *********************** Hi Nick, maybe I wasn't very clear.  I do believe that Jesus is a man.  My question/concern for you is this:  Can God “beget” alone? I believe the answer is no.  He can create – clearly.  But to “beget” a Son – he needed Mary.  And if he needed Mary, logic tells us that he (Jesus) could not have existed before he “took on flesh.” And again………..do you have any other passages other than Philippians to back up your faith in this incarnation (of sorts) of Jesus?

Hi not3,
God had sons before Mary.

Try gen 6, Job 1,2,38.

[Not3in1]

God may have had sons before Mary but…………Jesus is the only “begotten.” What say you about that?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Monogenes is poorly translated “only begotten” as it has nothing to do with birth.
He was begotten of God alone in the beginning.
All the other sons were created through him.

[Not3in1]

God can create alone, but he cannot “beget” alone. Are you saying that “only begotten” is really not the proper translation? I want to be clear.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
You misunderstand.
Ps 2, the most known and versatile OT verse.

7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

[Not3in1]

Does this Psalm have a time frame attached to it that you are aware of? Is it not possible that this is referring to a future event? A future king of David? It is possible. And if it is possible, then it could be referring to the DAY when Jesus is begotten, could it not?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
So the Lord God HAS SAID to Christ he has been begotten from God?

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