- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 31 2009,16:24) Hi KW,
A two part wordMONO
GENES
It is used three times in the book of Luke and not once to refer to Jesus. In each case it is used to refer to an only child.Of all the authors of the New Testament John is the only one who chose to use the word monogenes in reference to Jesus. I believe the only mention in Hebrews is referring to Isaak.
That sums up the 9 times it is mention in the New Testament.
I have heard it is stressed in the Nicene code.
For some reason ”huios” is also translated only begotten Son in a handful of cases.
Hi KW,
Since God calls many His sons it clearly does not mean ONLY SON in John's writings.
God declared Jesus to be His Son at the Jordan, the one prophesied about in Ps 2 and Prov 30.
Since we are to follow him into sonship, into that anointing, I think it refers to his rebirth from above there.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 31 2009,18:38) Hi KW,
Since God calls many His sons it clearly does not mean ONLY SON in John's writings.
God declared Jesus to be His Son at the Jordan, the one prophesied about in Ps 2 and Prov 30.
Since we are to follow him into sonship, into that anointing, I think it refers to his rebirth from above there.
Are you are saying John uses it in the same way other writers use firstborn?Hi KW,
No.
But his unique sonship by the Spirit is as a new creation.
We too are new creations by that same Spirit when we follow him and no other sons had previously ever been begotten this way.This is what Paul teaches.
Romans 8:29(KJV) reads:
Quote For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Colossians 1:15(KJV) reads:
Quote Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
This is the writer of Hebrews words.
Hebrews 1:6(KJV) reads:
Quote And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
These are the words of John in his later years.
Revelations 1:5(KJV) reads:
Quote And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Here is the use of firstborn I was speaking of though there are a few other uses of “prototokos “ that apply. I also believe “huios” is sometimes used in the same way. If you combine those three years then I believe most if not all of the writers of the New Testament give voice to the idea unlike with “monogenes” by itself.
Hi KW,
So the most important similarities between Jesus and his Father in knowledge and fruit and powers is by the Spirit of God within him and the plan of God is to bring all creation into the same form of similarity and unity with Him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 02 2009,01:37) Hi KW,
So the most important similarities between Jesus and his Father in knowledge and fruit and powers is by the Spirit of God within him and the plan of God is to bring all creation into the same form of similarity and unity with Him.
Your English use is a bit clumsy but I believe I understand what you are getting at.Are you are saying that the most important similarity between Jesus and God is the Spirit of Holiness which gives Jesus the knowledge, fruit, and powers of God. I believe you are also making the point that we as well as the rest of creation will be brought into the same similarity with him.
The only possible objection I might have to what you state is that God apportions both the knowledge and powers of the Spirits as he sees fit. Scripture tells us that Jesus was limited by God.
Hi KW,
God gave Jesus the fullness of the Spirit[jn3]and appoints men in Jesus with some of the powers[gifts] for the particular roles they are to play.[1Cor12]. All of the fruit of that Spirit is available to all who know they need that grace and seek it.Jesus is given all authority but works according to what the Father wants as true unity with his God would demand.
Like wise the Spirit does not teach us by His own initiative beyond scripture.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 02 2009,01:51) Hi KW,
God gave Jesus the fullness of the Spirit[jn3]and appoints men in Jesus with some of the powers[gifts] for the particular roles they are to play.[1Cor12]. All of the fruit of that Spirit is available to all who know they need that grace and seek it.Jesus is given all authority but works according to what the Father wants as true unity with his God would demand.
Like wise the Spirit does not teach us by His own initiative beyond scripture.
Sounds good except that I am not sure that our ascribing maleness to the Spirit is correct. I believe the Greeks and Hebrews would ascribe gender to concepts.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 02 2009,13:24) Hi KW,
The Spirit is the Spirit of the Father.. even in Christ.
I agree with that though Jesus did state that he and his Father would come to live in those that believe.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 02 2009,23:30) Hi KW,
The Lord is the Spirit.
In the same way that I am my spirit.Hi KW,
Your spirit belongs to God and returns to Him when you die.[Ecc 12]
The Spirit of Jesus now is the Spirit of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 03 2009,06:06) Hi KW,
Your spirit belongs to God and returns to Him when you die.[Ecc 12]
The Spirit of Jesus now is the Spirit of God.
Who were you referring to when you chose the words “The Lord”?Hi KW,
With few exceptions the Lord in the NT is Jesus Christ.
Peter said “It is the Lord” when he spied him from his boat.Jesus has died and his spirit left him at calvary and his life now is only in the Spirit of his God.
Thus when we are communing in the Spirit it is with God and His Son.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 03 2009,12:28) Hi KW,
With few exceptions the Lord in the NT is Jesus Christ.
Peter said “It is the Lord” when he spied him from his boat.Jesus has died and his spirit left him at calvary and his life now is only in the Spirit of his God.
Thus when we are communing in the Spirit it is with God and His Son.
So are you stating that Jesus is the Holy Spirit?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 03 2009,12:33) Hi KW,
I did not choose the words but that is how they are written.
The are vague and so that is how you choose to interpret them. They can be interpreted other ways.I tend to view the Lord as referring to God and not Jesus in this case but I can certainly be mistaken. I am attempting to test each of our hypothosis against other scriptures about the Holy Spirit.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
