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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 11 2006,20:06) Quote Why would God be God have to do all things Himself? Because he will not share his Glory as God with Another!
Jesus Monogenes, single of its kind, only, From everlasting to everlasting! God in the flesh.
and repeat repeat repeat sounding like a broken record here Nick!
Hi W,
The Son has glory of his own.
Jn 1
” 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”God does not have flesh but manifested in the flesh of His Son.
Quote Hi W,
The Son has glory of his own.
Jn 1
” 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”God does not have flesh but manifested in the flesh of His Son.
Yes Nick it is true that Christ has his own splendour and brightness! We share in that Glory. Im speaking of the Glory which he had with the Father as God! God will not share his deity with another!
Only Jesus shares this deity! They are One!
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 10 2006,23:17) Put aside Greek thinking for a minute and try not to confine yourselves to created – uncreated. Between the uncreated God and creation, then was an intermediary step. This mediator is Christ who is the Word become flesh. He is the ONLY begotten and the only one who has seen God and can declare him.
There is a big jump between God and created beings. In fact we cannot even see God, so forget about trying to shake his hand.
But for us there is the image of God. i.e., Christ, who reveals the invisible God to us.
That is why Jesus said “if you have seen me you have seen the Father”.
Jesus wasn't a created angel and nor was he the non-created God.
Scripture is clear.
He is and was the Word of God.
The firstborn son.
The only begotten.Now if we are to correctly understand the truth about rank and where Christ is in relation to God and us. Look at this next scripture:
1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.So us created beings have a head who is Christ. BUT Christ also has a head who is GOD. Can you grasp what this means? It changes the very foundation of most denominations and this is why such teaching from scripture is largely ignored. Men want to cling to that which they create with their own hands.
Anyway, it is understandable that Christ is our origin. For he is our head and we came into being by God through Christ.
- God > Christ/Word > Man > Woman.
- God > Christ/Word > creation
It isn't the following as many some who come here advocate:
- God > Angel > Man
- God/Father > God/Jesus > Man/creation.
Greek thinking sets the stage for the exisitence of those last 2 incorrect points.
That is why I am convinced that Greek thinking has contaminated much of Christianity. Sadly many of these infected people fight to stay infected and try to infect others.
But Paul knew about the Greeks and their philosophy, yet he preached “Christ crucified” to them, which was an offence to their proud intellectualism.
So he didn't take the stance of trying to compete with their intellectual understanding of things because he knew the foolishness of God was greater than the wisdom of men.
Yet some come here and try to intellectualise false doctrine. But false doctrine is false doctrine, no matter how big the words you use.
Jesus is not created nor is he the uncreated God.
Instead, he is the only begotten of God, the Word OF God.A wise man will stick to revelation from God which includes scripture. A foolish man will imagine all kinds of vain imaginations with his own mind from his own spirit and try to create God in an image that fits his limited understanding.
t8, well done! I never thought I would say this of you lol, but what you have written I totally endorse, with one exception.Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. This verse clearly states that the Word was God.
and then…
Joh 17:5 And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
and what was that glory?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 11 2006,20:20) Quote Hi W,
The Son has glory of his own.
Jn 1
” 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”God does not have flesh but manifested in the flesh of His Son.
Yes Nick it is true that Christ has his own splendour and brightness! We share in that Glory. Im speaking of the Glory which he had with the Father as God! God will not share his deity with another!
Only Jesus shares this deity! They are One!
Hi W,
You say God does not share His Glory. Then you say He shares it with His Son having agreed the Son has glory of his own. You confuse me?Quote Greek thinking sets the stage for the exisitence of those last 2 incorrect points. That is why I am convinced that Greek thinking has contaminated much of Christianity. Sadly many of these infected people fight to stay infected and try to infect others.
But Paul knew about the Greeks and their philosophy, yet he preached “Christ crucified” to them, which was an offence to their proud intellectualism.
So he didn't take the stance of trying to compete with their intellectual understanding of things because he knew the foolishness of God was greater than the wisdom of men.
Yet some come here and try to intellectualise false doctrine. But false doctrine is false doctrine, no matter how big the words you use.
Jesus is not created nor is he the uncreated God.
Instead, he is the only begotten of God, the Word OF God.A wise man will stick to revelation from God which includes scripture. A foolish man will imagine all kinds of vain imaginations with his own mind from his own spirit and try to create God in an image that fits his limited understanding.
t8
Tell me my friend if the translators depended on the greek, hebrew and latin scriptures for the true interpretation of the scriptures. Then what other source do we have? Taking in account of course the Spirit of truth.
Quote Hi W,
You say God does not share His Glory. Then you say He shares it with His Son having agreed the Son has glory of his own. You confuse me?Of couse I can see how that would confuse you because you havnt accepted Christ is God one with the Father!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 11 2006,20:35) Quote Hi W,
You say God does not share His Glory. Then you say He shares it with His Son having agreed the Son has glory of his own. You confuse me?Of couse I can see how that would confuse you because you havnt accepted Christ is God one with the Father!
Hi W,
The Son is one with His Father, a submitted vessel for the Father's Spirit in the fullness of deity and a beautiful unity of purpose and will. That is real unity, not like that of any imaginied eternally conjoint committee being.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 11 2006,20:37) Quote Hi W,
You say God does not share His GloryBy the way Nick I didnt say this, the word Does!
Hi W,
Yes God does
Why do you do not believe it proposing instead that He shares that glory with His son?
Scripture says the Son has life in himself, a will of his own AND glory of his own WITH his Father GodQuote Hi W,
Yes God does
Why do you do not believe it proposing instead that He shares that glory with His son?
Scripture says the Son has life in himself, a will of his own AND glory of his own WITH his Father GodAmen Nick! Inseparably One!
We serve the Son we serve God! We worship the Son we worship God! We honour the Son we honour God! We pray to the Son we pray to God!
Quote (Oxy @ Nov. 12 2006,15:24) Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
This is for you Oxy and WorshippingJesus.You say that the Word was WITH God and IS/WAS God.
Of course to say that you are with someone is an automatic recognition that you are not whom you are with.
E.g., I am with Bob, doesn't mean that I am Bob.
Anyway, we know that God is beyond our logic, so that in itself isn't enough to say that Christ is WITH God and IS God cannot be reconciled. We of course need to look at scripture itself. And scripture most certainly gives us the answer.
Now to preach a truth is relatively simple. Quoting a scripture can take a minute. But to undo that which has been ingrained into the mind can take a lot longer and therefore because you use this scripture to prove that Jesus is actually God himself, you need a greater explanation than a simple scripture.
Of course you may be thinking that I am being long-winded about this and why don't I just simply quote scripture if it is true. So to that end I will do just that, then I will follow up with a link that has a bigger explanation as to what John 1:1 is really saying.
SIMPLE SCRIPTURES THAT SAY THAT GOD AND JESUS ARE DIFFERENT IDENTITIES
John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.So does scripture contradict? Many scriptures identify Jesus as being a different identity to God, namely the son OF God and it seems to many that John 1:1 contradicts these other scriptures by saying that the Word WAS God.
So what is the truth?
FULLER EXPLANATION FOR JOHN 1:1
When we read John 1:1 without bias and as it was meant to be understood we find that there is no contradiction in scripture relating to Jesus identity and God's identity.
I give you a link for this explanation because the subject of this particular discussion is about Michael and Jesus, and not John 1:1.
https://heavennet.net/writings/trinity-05.htm
Just read the first commentary, it is on John 1:1.There is a discussions about the Logos here, if anyone wishes to take this further:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….=1;t=66Hi P,
Scripture does not say Jesus is Michael.
Scripture does say Michael is one of the chief angels.
Scripture does show Jesus is greater than the angels.
Jesus is not Michael who is only a mighty angel.Morning Nick
I knew you'd pick these up for me. In a way you are right.
In the bible Michael is called the Prince. In the bible Jesus is also called the Prince.
Michael is spoken of mostly in Daniel. In Daniel 12 Michael is called THE GREAT Prince…Not A prince. He is also identified as one who “standeth for the children of thy people”.
Is this saying Michael is greater than Jesus? I think not. Michael is Jesus.
Hugs
PhoenixHi P,
Christ is indeed the Prince of peace and the Prince of life.
He is also Messiah the Prince and
The Prince of Princes.
This is not just my opinion but scriptural.Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 24 2007,20:27) Is this saying Michael is greater than Jesus? I think not. Michael is Jesus.
Phoenix,
Michael is a created being, an angel, The Logos is the maker of “all things” (Col 1:16, Joh 1:3). Therefore He cannot logically be the maker of all things and a thing at the same time. Right?Quote Therefore He cannot logically be the maker of all things and a thing at the same time Come again??
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2007,20:29) Hi P,
Christ is indeed the Prince of peace and the Prince of life.
He is also Messiah the Prince and
The Prince of Princes.
This is not just my opinion but scriptural.
Hi NickQuote Michael is spoken of mostly in Daniel. In Daniel 12 Michael is called THE GREAT Prince…Not A prince. He is also identified as one who “standeth for the children of thy people”. That is scripture too I believe. But I must read those threads you brought up for me.
Hi P,
Christ is the firstborn monogenes Son.
He was before all things with God in the beginning.
Angels are created beings-created by God[the Father]-through the Son.Heb 1-2 contrasts him with the angels which includes Michael.
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