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All this about Michael being Jesus. Michael could not have been Jesus because there was only the Word. The Word was the beginning of God's creation. The Word created everything including Michael the Archangel. That was the Word then in heaven. Then Word became flesh (Jesus)and dwelt among us (John1:1). “Any one that says Jesus has not come in the flesh is the antichrist”. John is speaking about those who would say that Jesus was not the Son of God. Somebody show me where the flesh (Jesus) became Jesus the flesh. The same for Michael. There is no scripture that says Michael the Archangel became flesh and dwelt among us. Michael did not became Jesus! The WORD became Jesus.
I would apreciate some input why the above statement is wrong. I believe it to be right. I want the truth. Now if this statement is not true then show me why it is not.
Nick has given me his answer:
Hi kenrch,
1Jn 4.2
” By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God”
en.2Jn 7
” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist”
The Word was not flesh in heaven.
Jn 1.14
” The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 24 2005,14:32) All this about Michael being Jesus. Michael could not have been Jesus because there was only the Word. The Word was the beginning of God's creation. The Word created everything including Michael the Archangel. That was the Word then in heaven. Then Word became flesh (Jesus)and dwelt among us (John1:1). “Any one that says Jesus has not come in the flesh is the antichrist”. John is speaking about those who would say that Jesus was not the Son of God. Somebody show me where the flesh (Jesus) became Jesus the flesh. The same for Michael. There is no scripture that says Michael the Archangel became flesh and dwelt among us. Michael did not became Jesus! The WORD became Jesus. I would apreciate some input why the above statement is wrong. I believe it to be right. I want the truth. Now if this statement is not true then show me why it is not.
Nick has given me his answer:
Hi kenrch,
1Jn 4.2
” By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God”
en.2Jn 7
” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist”
The Word was not flesh in heaven.
Jn 1.14
” The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”
Oh by the way. “Happy turkey day”I'm thankful Jesus the Son of God and the Son of man and for all the truth He has shown me. I'm also thankful that He has led me to Heaven Net.
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 24 2005,14:32) All this about Michael being Jesus. Michael could not have been Jesus because there was only the Word. The Word was the beginning of God's creation. The Word created everything including Michael the Archangel. That was the Word then in heaven. Then Word became flesh (Jesus)and dwelt among us (John1:1). “Any one that says Jesus has not come in the flesh is the antichrist”. John is speaking about those who would say that Jesus was not the Son of God. Somebody show me where the flesh (Jesus) became Jesus the flesh. The same for Michael. There is no scripture that says Michael the Archangel became flesh and dwelt among us. Michael did not became Jesus! The WORD became Jesus. I would apreciate some input why the above statement is wrong. I believe it to be right. I want the truth. Now if this statement is not true then show me why it is not.
Nick has given me his answer:
Hi kenrch,
1Jn 4.2
” By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God”
en.2Jn 7
” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist”
The Word was not flesh in heaven.
Jn 1.14
” The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”
Hi kenrch,
Such doctrines show the hold cults have over their members. Having accepted the authority of cult leaders over them men will let them dictate bizarre teachings without scriptural basis to them and they will follow their leaders into the same pit.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 24 2005,18:08) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 24 2005,14:32) All this about Michael being Jesus. Michael could not have been Jesus because there was only the Word. The Word was the beginning of God's creation. The Word created everything including Michael the Archangel. That was the Word then in heaven. Then Word became flesh (Jesus)and dwelt among us (John1:1). “Any one that says Jesus has not come in the flesh is the antichrist”. John is speaking about those who would say that Jesus was not the Son of God. Somebody show me where the flesh (Jesus) became Jesus the flesh. The same for Michael. There is no scripture that says Michael the Archangel became flesh and dwelt among us. Michael did not became Jesus! The WORD became Jesus. I would apreciate some input why the above statement is wrong. I believe it to be right. I want the truth. Now if this statement is not true then show me why it is not.
Nick has given me his answer:
Hi kenrch,
1Jn 4.2
” By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God”
en.2Jn 7
” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist”
The Word was not flesh in heaven.
Jn 1.14
” The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”
Hi kenrch,
Such doctrines show the hold cults have over their members. Having accepted the authority of cult leaders over them men will let them dictate bizarre teachings without scriptural basis to them and they will follow their leaders into the same pit.
I gave no doctrines Nick. Only scripture which you can not provide. Give me the scripture and I'll more that happy to agree. But all you give is your “words of wisdom” I don't agree with any thing pertaining to God without SCRIPTURE.Hey if you don't know just say so. There's no shame in not knowing everything. That's why I'm here to learn. For me to learn then sometimes I must admit I'm wrong!
Do you have touble admiting your wrong!
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 24 2005,14:32) All this about Michael being Jesus. Michael could not have been Jesus because there was only the Word. The Word was the beginning of God's creation. The Word created everything including Michael the Archangel. That was the Word then in heaven. Then Word became flesh (Jesus)and dwelt among us (John1:1). “Any one that says Jesus has not come in the flesh is the antichrist”. John is speaking about those who would say that Jesus was not the Son of God. Somebody show me where the flesh (Jesus) became Jesus the flesh. The same for Michael. There is no scripture that says Michael the Archangel became flesh and dwelt among us. Michael did not became Jesus! The WORD became Jesus. I would apreciate some input why the above statement is wrong. I believe it to be right. I want the truth. Now if this statement is not true then show me why it is not.
Nick has given me his answer:
Hi kenrch,
1Jn 4.2
” By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God”
en.2Jn 7
” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist”
The Word was not flesh in heaven.
Jn 1.14
” The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”
Hi kenrch,
I agree largely. Michael is a spirit being, and archangel, a son of God. He has never had flesh.
But
Jesus Christ existed in the form of God[Phil 2.5]
Jesus Christ came in the flesh[1Jn 4, 2 Jn]So Michael CANNOT be Jesus Christ.
Angels are called morning stars and sons of God.
Job 38:5-7 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Isaiah tells us that a child shall be born (Jesus) and a son shall be given (Michael).
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus' flesh and blood body was the son of man (Jesus) through Mary as the seed of David but Jesus was also the sinless Son who was given, Morning Star (Michael).
Revelation 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.''
The body of Jesus was for the sacrific but who Jesus was is Michael.
Hebrews 10:5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You have prepared for Me.
Jesus' body is called, that holy thing.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
The sinless body of Jesus was the Lamb without blemish.
Hi k4c,
I believe Michael is a son of God but where is it written that you can state so definitely that he is?
Where does it say Michael is the angel of Jesus?
2Peter 1.19
“So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and THE MORNING STAR RISES IN YOUR HEARTS”
So this is Michael rising in our hearts in your opinion?
Nonsense.
Paul says Christ is born into us in Gal 4.19 and this scripture also tells of the Spirit of Christ growing in us and no angel within us.“for unto us a child is born [Jesus Christ-son of Man], unto us a Son [Jesus Christ-Son of God] is given”
Where does it say elsewhere in scripture that any angels are given to us? It does not have the word “and” that might support your speculations. It is a parallel verse showing another aspect of who is being discussed, Jesus Christ.
Who was given to us?
Jn 3.16
” For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son” [Jesus Christ]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 24 2005,20:08) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 24 2005,14:32) All this about Michael being Jesus. Michael could not have been Jesus because there was only the Word. The Word was the beginning of God's creation. The Word created everything including Michael the Archangel. That was the Word then in heaven. Then Word became flesh (Jesus)and dwelt among us (John1:1). “Any one that says Jesus has not come in the flesh is the antichrist”. John is speaking about those who would say that Jesus was not the Son of God. Somebody show me where the flesh (Jesus) became Jesus the flesh. The same for Michael. There is no scripture that says Michael the Archangel became flesh and dwelt among us. Michael did not became Jesus! The WORD became Jesus. I would apreciate some input why the above statement is wrong. I believe it to be right. I want the truth. Now if this statement is not true then show me why it is not.
Nick has given me his answer:
Hi kenrch,
1Jn 4.2
” By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God”
en.2Jn 7
” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist”
The Word was not flesh in heaven.
Jn 1.14
” The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”
Hi kenrch,
I agree largely. Michael is a spirit being, and archangel, a son of God. He has never had flesh.
But
Jesus Christ existed in the form of God[Phil 2.5]
Jesus Christ came in the flesh[1Jn 4, 2 Jn]So Michael CANNOT be Jesus Christ.
ALRIGHT NICK!!So the Word was in the form of God, Philp. 2:5-7.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.In the beginning was the Word of God. So God made His spoken Word and made the Word in His form.
And the Word was with God. That makes sense being the Word of God, the Word had to be WITH God.
And the Word was God. That makes sense also, the WORD being in the form and part of God WAS GOD.
But God is a Spirit. So to be in the form of God The Word was Spirit and not flesh. Make sense,that's what the scriptures say, isn't it. We are in God's image not His form. So we are flesh.
But the Word being in the form of God (SPIRIT) became flesh and dwelt among us.
So God is Spirit and so is the Word.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 24 2005,23:43) Hi k4c,
I believe Michael is a son of God but where is it written that you can state so definitely that he is?
Where does it say Michael is the angel of Jesus?
2Peter 1.19
“So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and THE MORNING STAR RISES IN YOUR HEARTS”
So this is Michael rising in our hearts in your opinion?
Nonsense.
Paul says Christ is born into us in Gal 4.19 and this scripture also tells of the Spirit of Christ growing in us and no angel within us.“for unto us a child is born [Jesus Christ-son of Man], unto us a Son [Jesus Christ-Son of God] is given”
Where does it say elsewhere in scripture that any angels are given to us? It does not have the word “and” that might support your speculations. It is a parallel verse showing another aspect of who is being discussed, Jesus Christ.
Who was given to us?
Jn 3.16
” For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son” [Jesus Christ]
Angels are sons of God, Michael is an angel so he is a son of God. But He is all God's chief angel, in other words, chief representative.Angels are morning stars, Jesus is called Morning Star, Jesus rises in our hearts as the Morning Star.
There is one Angel that is sent who bears the Father's name and forgives sin, we are to hear Him.
Exodus 23:20-22 “Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. “Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him. “But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.
Jesus bears His Father's name and forgives sin and we are to hear Him.
John 5:43 “I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
Luke 5:24 “But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins'' He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.''
Mark 9:7 And a cloud came and overshadowed them; and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!''
When Jesus comes in all His glory He shall call with His voice, the voice of the Archangel and the dead shall rise. There is only one Archangel and His name is, Michael.
When Jesus comes the dead shall rise from the dust, those who believe will be like the stars of heaven but it will be a terrible time for those who do not believe.
Now look at the prophecy in Daniel and see who brings about this end time event.
Daniel 12:1-4 “At that time Michael shall stand up, the great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even to that time. and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one who is found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament, and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever. “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.'
The book is open, do you know the Son's name?
Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, if you know?
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 25 2005,01:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 24 2005,20:08) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 24 2005,14:32) All this about Michael being Jesus. Michael could not have been Jesus because there was only the Word. The Word was the beginning of God's creation. The Word created everything including Michael the Archangel. That was the Word then in heaven. Then Word became flesh (Jesus)and dwelt among us (John1:1). “Any one that says Jesus has not come in the flesh is the antichrist”. John is speaking about those who would say that Jesus was not the Son of God. Somebody show me where the flesh (Jesus) became Jesus the flesh. The same for Michael. There is no scripture that says Michael the Archangel became flesh and dwelt among us. Michael did not became Jesus! The WORD became Jesus. I would apreciate some input why the above statement is wrong. I believe it to be right. I want the truth. Now if this statement is not true then show me why it is not.
Nick has given me his answer:
Hi kenrch,
1Jn 4.2
” By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God”
en.2Jn 7
” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist”
The Word was not flesh in heaven.
Jn 1.14
” The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”
Hi kenrch,
I agree largely. Michael is a spirit being, and archangel, a son of God. He has never had flesh.
But
Jesus Christ existed in the form of God[Phil 2.5]
Jesus Christ came in the flesh[1Jn 4, 2 Jn]So Michael CANNOT be Jesus Christ.
ALRIGHT NICK!!So the Word was in the form of God, Philp. 2:5-7.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.In the beginning was the Word of God. So God made His spoken Word and made the Word in His form.
And the Word was with God. That makes sense being the Word of God, the Word had to be WITH God.
And the Word was God. That makes sense also, the WORD being in the form and part of God WAS GOD.
But God is a Spirit. So to be in the form of God The Word was Spirit and not flesh. Make sense,that's what the scriptures say, isn't it. We are in God's image not His form. So we are flesh.
But the Word being in the form of God (SPIRIT) became flesh and dwelt among us.
So God is Spirit and so is the Word.
Hi Kenrch,
I agree with all except the Word being part of God. The Word was 'with God' as in 'separate' and 'alongside' and able to be related to not with as in being a part. They were in relationship from the beginning.
An ear is part of a body. An ear cannot be described as being 'with' the rest of that body except in the case of the servant in the garden who had his ear sliced off. For a short time the ear was 'with' the servant till Jesus made him whole again.
Removal of a part makes a being deficient. And the removed part does not have life in itself. Jesus had life in himself. God is not reduced by begetting a Son any more that a torch giving flame to another is not reduced.
To be “God” is simply confirming the Word also is of divine nature which we know from Phil2.5-6..Hi k4c,
OK. Let us establish some scriptural facts that we can build on.
Where does it say there is only one archangel?
Where does it say angels are sons of God?
Where does it say angels are morning stars?
Your Daniel scripture shows men too as stars.
Where does it say Michael is God's chief angel?
Where is Michael identified as the Angel of the Lord?
Where does it say Michael is God's representative?Scripture does say some things similar to what you claim but not as clearly as you state.
Yes Michael is identified as “one of the chief princes”.
Jesus is identified as “the “Prince of Princes” [Dan 8.25.9.25]showing he is greater than all the other princes including Michael which should be no surprise.
So if princes means archangels and sons of God there are more surely.
Yes Michael is the only identified 'archangel' but that means chief angel as in prince surely.
It is another thing entirely to derive that he must be the only archangel..
That is not written.
Angel means messenger.
Jesus preceded them and as part of creation they were created through him.
He chose to obey and be sent but angels are just sent.
Yes there is an angel of the Lord.
Nowhere is it written that he is Michael.So if we are to teach we cannot fill in the gaps with guesswork but only with revelation.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 25 2005,03:07) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 25 2005,01:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 24 2005,20:08) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 24 2005,14:32) All this about Michael being Jesus. Michael could not have been Jesus because there was only the Word. The Word was the beginning of God's creation. The Word created everything including Michael the Archangel. That was the Word then in heaven. Then Word became flesh (Jesus)and dwelt among us (John1:1). “Any one that says Jesus has not come in the flesh is the antichrist”. John is speaking about those who would say that Jesus was not the Son of God. Somebody show me where the flesh (Jesus) became Jesus the flesh. The same for Michael. There is no scripture that says Michael the Archangel became flesh and dwelt among us. Michael did not became Jesus! The WORD became Jesus. I would apreciate some input why the above statement is wrong. I believe it to be right. I want the truth. Now if this statement is not true then show me why it is not.
Nick has given me his answer:
Hi kenrch,
1Jn 4.2
” By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God”
en.2Jn 7
” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist”
The Word was not flesh in heaven.
Jn 1.14
” The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”
Hi kenrch,
I agree largely. Michael is a spirit being, and archangel, a son of God. He has never had flesh.
But
Jesus Christ existed in the form of God[Phil 2.5]
Jesus Christ came in the flesh[1Jn 4, 2 Jn]So Michael CANNOT be Jesus Christ.
ALRIGHT NICK!!So the Word was in the form of God, Philp. 2:5-7.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.In the beginning was the Word of God. So God made His spoken Word and made the Word in His form.
And the Word was with God. That makes sense being the Word of God, the Word had to be WITH God.
And the Word was God. That makes sense also, the WORD being in the form and part of God WAS GOD.
But God is a Spirit. So to be in the form of God The Word was Spirit and not flesh. Make sense,that's what the scriptures say, isn't it. We are in God's image not His form. So we are flesh.
But the Word being in the form of God (SPIRIT) became flesh and dwelt among us.
So God is Spirit and so is the Word.
Hi Kenrch,
I agree with all except the Word being part of God. The Word was 'with God' as in 'separate' and 'alongside' and able to be related to not with as in being a part. They were in relationship from the beginning.
An ear is part of a body. An ear cannot be described as being 'with' the rest of that body except in the case of the servant in the garden who had his ear sliced off. For a short time the ear was 'with' the servant till Jesus made him whole again.
Removal of a part makes a being deficient. And the removed part does not have life in itself. Jesus had life in himself. God is not reduced by begetting a Son any more that a torch giving flame to another is not reduced.
To be “God” is simply confirming the Word also is of divine nature which we know from Phil2.5-6..
An ear is part of a body. An ear cannot be described as being 'with' the rest of that body except in the case of the servant in the garden who had his ear sliced off. For a short time the ear was 'with' the servant till Jesus made him whole again.
“An ear is part of the body”. Before spoken the Word was part of God.
An ear cannot be described as being 'with' the rest of that body. Before the Word was spoken it was not “with” God it was part of God.…except in the case of the servant in the garden who had his ear sliced off. For a short time the ear was 'with' the servant till Jesus made him whole again.
Once God spoke the Word the Word was “with” God and seperate from God.
Quote All this about Michael being Jesus. Michael could not have been Jesus because there was only the Word. The Word was the beginning of God's creation. The Word created everything including Michael the Archangel. You really don't say anything here. “The Word [what Jesus is called] created everything including Michael the Archangel.”
Really? It says he created himself? Where does it say that.
You can't use circular logic to hold yourself up, as I just did above.
THAT is what we're trying to determine. YET you jump to the conclusion without prooving anything. If indeed the Bible said that Jesus created Michael, then obviously, Jesus wouldn't be Michael. But since we're arguing that Michael is another name for Jesus [in other words, Jesus himself], simply saying Jesus isn't Michael doesn't really proove anything.Kenrch, if you go to the other thread on “Michael, Jesus” and go back a couple pages, I outline the main reason's why some believe that Michael is the name of Jesus while in heaven. I put the headings in bold.
Also, I was wondering why we need 5 threads on this topic? How does creating a new thread every time you want to say something help? I know that it makes it much harder to find things for me, anyway.
david.
Hi david,
It is not for us to disprove that Jesus is Michael.
We expect you to show where it is written.
But you admit it is not written.
That should be the end of the story.
So you must prove that it is true to maintain any credibilty.
But how can you prove from scripture what you admit is not written there?That being the case and since you are aware that spiritual truth must be shown from scripture is it not time to admit this speculation is false?
Nick, shouldn't you direct people to the other thread on this? Do we really need several threads on the exact same subject?
Quote It is not for us to disprove that Jesus is Michael.
The fact that you need to say this IMPLIES that you cannot disprove it.
Therefore, since you cannot definitively disprove it, you are in the same situation I am in.
The difference being that I have several scriptural reasons for believing that Michael is the name of Jesus while in heaven whereas you have your angels with wings and Jesus doesn't have wings, so that proves it.Hi,
The JW's followed speculations and finished up proving to their own satisfaction, by their weak and foolish methods of scripture analysis, that the Son of God is an angel called Michael. That should give us warning about leaving the safe ground of scriptural proof.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 25 2005,05:56) Hi kenrch,
Where does it say the Word was spoken into being?
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;Hi kenrch,
Jesus is the beginning of creation because all creation came through the monogenes firstborn Son surely, but if you are correct you should find one or two supporting verses too.Quote Jesus is the beginning of creation because all creation came through the monogenes firstborn Son But that's not what the scipture says, is it? It doesn't say he's the best of creation. It says he's the “beginning of the creation of God.”
And nor does scripture say that there are archangels, as in plural, although you state that this “is a fact,” as you've said. It is your belief, who comes from who knows where, but it is not a Biblical fact. In that you are simply wrong beyond words, especially in that you repeatedly accuse me of speculations. Isn't it a tad hypocritical to accuse me of this a couple hundred times and not acknowledge that you yourself have done it when I pointed it out NICK?
I would say so.
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