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Quote Hi WJ: The scriptures that I have quoted relative to there being ONE GOD do not have to be interpreted. The plainly state that there is ONE GOD. Also, God has plainly told us who Jesus is in Matthew 16:13-17 and that is that he is the Christ the Son of the living God. No interpretation of this scripture is needed either.
You say that there is ONE GOD, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Your statement is an interpretation of the scriptures. God did not state this plainly as He has in the scriptures that I have given you. And if God wanted us to know and understand this the way that you do, He would have told us this through the scriptures, and you have admitted that you cannot show me a scripture that plainly states what you decalare to be the truth.
As for my salvation, God is the Father of my spirit, and I am subjected to Him through my Lord Jesus His Son and His Christ. I am looking forward to being with my Lord for an eternity. “After this I beheld, and lo, a great multitude, which not man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues stood before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation belongs to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces and worshipped God. Saying, Amen: blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen”. (Rev. 7:9-12)
When Jesus was about to ascend into heaven he spoke to Mary in John 20:17 saying, “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but GO TO MY BRETHREN, and say unto them, I ascend unto MY FATHER and YOUR FATHER, and TO MY GOD, and YOUR GOD.
No interpretation is needed of this scripture either.
94
Just as I figured. The scriptures I show you need no interpretation.
They inphatically call Jesus God.
I asked you to prove to me by the scriptures I show that Jesus is not God.
Yoo can't.
So the debate goes on.
I believe the Father is God as the scriptures say.
I believe that Jesus is the Son as the scriptures say.
I also believe Jesus is God as the scriptures say.
I also believe that the Holy Spirit is God as the scriptures say.I believe in the whole concil of God found in the Bible the Inspired scriptures, the word of God.
Father, Son and Holy Ghost, Divinely and Uniquely united as One
This is scriptural.
Blessings
Quote He would have told us this through the scriptures, and you have admitted that you cannot show me a scripture that plainly states what you decalare to be the truth. 94
You twist my words.
I said there is no scripture that says or uses the word trinity.
There is plenty of scripture that is indisputable evidence that Jesus is God!
John 1:1 is all the proof you need. All the major translations interpret it the same.
Hi WJ:
If I twisted your words, please forgive me. Are you saying that you have not been trying to convince us that the “trinity doctrine” is scriptural”?
As I stated, the scriptures that I have you regarding ONE GOD and that Jesus is the Son of the living God and His Christ, and that Jesus is a man and the mediator between God and man need no interpretation. God has plainly shown us these things through these scriptures.
God Bless, my desire is the very best that God has to offer for your and your family.
Copied from page 41 of the “Worship” thread with an addendum.
Quote Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 15 2006,07:01) Quote Finally, from Genesis… certainly Deuteronomy, I was told to expect a messiah (prophet, servant) of God. Not God himself in the form of a man. Cubes
Isnt that what the Saducees and Pharisees looked for, and did they not miss the Messiah?
Tell me does Genesis and Deutoronomy show that the Messiah would die and rise from the dead and be exalted above the heavens all power given to him in heaven and earth?
Hi W,I believe these verses lay a foundation for the crucified and risen Lamb of God:
- Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Hbr 9:23 ¶ [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.- Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
- Genesis 15:8 And he said, “Lord God, how shall I know that I will inherit it?”
9 So He said to him, “Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” 10 Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two. 11 And when the vultures came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.
12 Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. 13 Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. 14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 Now as for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates– 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”- Genesis 22:1 Now it came to pass after these things that God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
2 Then He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”
3 So Abraham rose early in the morning and saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son; and he split the wood for the burnt offering, and arose and went to the place of which God had told him. 4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted his eyes and saw the place afar off. 5 And Abraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey; the *lad and I will go yonder and worship, and we will come back to you.”
6 So Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife, and the two of them went together. 7 But Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!”
And he said, “Here I am, my son.”
Then he said, “Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?”
8 And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” So the two of them went together.
9 Then they came to the place of which God had told him. And Abraham built an altar there and placed the wood in order; and he bound Isaac his son and laid him on the altar, upon the wood. 10 And Abraham stretched out his hand and took the knife to slay his son.
11 But the Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!”
So he said, “Here I am.”
12 And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”
13 Then Abraham lifted his eyes and looked, and there behind him was a ram caught in a thicket by its horns. So Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up for a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of the place, *The-Lord-Will-Provide; as it is said to this day, “In the Mount of the Lord it shall be provided.”
15 Then the Angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: “By Myself I have sworn, says the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son– 17 blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.” 19 So Abraham returned to his young men, and they rose and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.INTERESTINGLY, Genesis 15 is also where Abram has a conversation with YHWH about not having his OWN son to inherit him, and the Lord GOD promised him his OWN son/seed!
Israel is symbolic of Christ to the nations as Salvation is of the Jews.
Israel is symbolic of Christ to the nations.
Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Act 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.As with Moses, blood was shed when God made his covenant with Abraham concerning the Promise(Genesis 15:8-11 above, & Heb 9:16f, Galatians).
Hebrews 9:16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every *precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” 21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Also in another thread, I'd mentioned how I've wondered why Israel's flag bears the symbol of “the star of David”? I had no recollection of coming across a star of David in scripture and was therefore not sure whether the people of Israel chose this as a symbol of their persecutions and diaspora, given all that they went through during the holocaust.
Over the past week in reading Genesis in response to WJ's posts, I finally saw and understood and thought to share it with you too. How many times have I heard the story of Abraham and Isaac and God saying he'll multiply his seed as the stars of heaven!
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Genesis22:15 Then the Angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: “By Myself I have sworn, says the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son– 17 blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”
When Hitler in his authority chose and forced the yellow star upon the people of God to mark them, back in the 1930s, he probably did not realize how like Caiaphas he was being who spoke prophetically saying,
Jhn 11:49 And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
Jhn 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
Jhn 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
Jhn 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.I am beginning to wonder whether there really are such things as mere coincidences at all.
When one thinks about it, atheists propose that the creation came about by coincidence… we creationists say not.
I looked up three sites related to the flag of Israel on google and have posted excerpts from those sites.
They state that the symbol of the star of David dates back to biblical times but give no scriptural references. It is believed that David used the symbol on his shield…
Thus it would seem that Modern Israel and the Zionists before them primarily associated the symbol w/ David, rather than Abraham…. and yet, we have its origins in Abraham just as the Jewish nation when as yet, Abraham had no seed and David is the son of Abraham (Gen 15 & 22). It is remarkable to me and adds up somehow taking us all the way to Matthew 1 and the fullfilment of God's promise to Abraham!
From Google:
- Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
- http://www.science.co.il/Israel-flag.asp
History of Design: The flag of The State of Israel includes two blue stripes on white background with a Shield (Star) of David (in Hebrew: Magen David) in the center. This design was first displayed in Rishon-LeZion in 1885 and was also used at the First Zionist Congress in 1897 (Encyclopaedia Judaica, 1971). It was inspired by the tallit (the prayer shawl with blue stripes worn by Jews during prayer) as a symbol. The Star of David is a common symbol of the People of Israel from Biblical times. The flag was adopted officially on October 28, 1948 (25 Tishre, 5709) by the Speaker of the Provisional Council of State.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Israel
In the Torah, the Israelites are commanded to dye one of the threads of their tallit (prayer shawl) with tekhelet; when they look at this dye they will think of the blue sky, and of the God above them in Heaven. Tekhelet corresponds to the color of the divine revelation (Midrash Numbers Rabbah xv.). Sometime near the end of the Talmudic era (500-600 CE) the industry that produced this dye collapsed. It became more rare; over time, the Jewish community lost the tradition of which species of shellfish produced this dye. Since Jews were then unable to fulfil this commandment, they have since left their tzitzit (tallit strings) white. However, in remembrance of the commandment to use the tekhelet dye, it became common for Jews to have blue or purple stripes on their tallit. [3] The idea that the blue and white colors were the national color of the Jewish people was voiced by early on Ludwig August Frankl (1810-1894), an Austrian Jewish poet. In his poem, “Judah's Colors”, he writes:When sublime feelings his heart fill, he is mantled in the colors of his country. He stands in prayer, wrapped in a sparkling robe of white.
The hems of the white robe are crowned with broad stripes of blue; Like the robe of the High Priest, adorned with bands of blue threads.
These are the colors of the beloved country, blue and white are the borders of Judah; White is the radiance of the priesthood, and blue, the splendors of the firmament.[4]
In 1885 the agricultural village of Rishon LeZion used a blue and white flag to mark its third anniversary. A blue and white flag, with a Star of David and the Hebrew word “Maccabee”, was used in 1891 by the Bnai Zion Educational Society.
David Wolffsohn (1856-1914), a businessman prominent in the early Zionist movement, was aware that the nascent Zionist movement had no official flag, and that the design proposed by Theodore Herzl was gaining no significant support. He writes:
At the behest of our leader Herzl, I came to Basle to make preparations for the Zionist Congress. Among many other problems that occupied me then was one that contained something of the essence of the Jewish problem. What flag would we hang in the Congress Hall? Then an idea struck me. We have a flag — and it is blue and white. The talith (prayer shawl) with which we wrap ourselves when we pray: that is our symbol. Let us take this Talith from its bag and unroll it before the eyes of Israel and the eyes of all nations. So I ordered a blue and white flag with the Shield of David painted upon it. That is how the national flag, that flew over Congress Hall, came into being.
- http://www.akhlah.com/israel/israel_symbols.php
How the Israeli Flag Was Chosen?
David Wolffsohn, who attended the First Zionist Congress in 1897, tells the story of the birth of the Israeli flag:
“At the request of our leader Herzl, I came to Basle to make preparations for the Zionist Congress. Among many other problems that occupied me then was one, which contained something of the essence of the Jewish problem. What flag would we hang in the Congress Hall? Then an idea struck me. We have a flag–and it is blue and white. The Tallit (prayer shawl) with which we wrap ourselves when we pray: that is our symbol. Let us take this Tallit from its bag and unroll it before the eyes of Israel and the eyes of all nations. So I ordered a blue and white flag with the Shield of David painted upon it. That is how the national flag, which flew over Congress Hall, came into being. The blue stripes above and below the Magen David remind us of the Tallit. When we see the Israeli flag, we remember the faith and the prayers of the many generations of Jews who longed for the return to their homeland. ”The Magen David is a traditional symbol of Judaism. The star is made up of two triangles, one right-side up and the other upside down.
One of them points upward toward all that is spiritual and holy. The other one points downward–toward all that is earthly and secular. By leading a life of Torah and mitzvot the Jew strives to bring together the worlds of spiritual and the earthly, the worlds of the holy and the secular.
Legend tells us that David the king of Israel adorned his shield with this six-pointed star, thus the star is named the Magen David.
