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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 14 2010,02:41) Quote (david @ May 13 2010,03:42) You can be filled with it, along with such qualities as wisdom and faith or joy and at 2 Corinthians 6:6, we see that holy spirit is inserted, or sandwiched in, with a number of such qualities.
DavidHow does what you say prove the Spirit is not a person?
You can be filled with God! Jesus is the bread of life. God is a consuming fire. Jesus is the wisdom of God. God is love. Jesus is the truth. God is a rock. Jesus is a rock. All the qualities that you mention are qualities of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
You denegrate the Spirit and make him less than an Angel or a man who is a living being or person. The Holy Spirit is also living and gives life.
The Spirit is not some amorphous impersonal force or power.
In your response to my post you completely skimmed over the scriptures that prove the personality of the Holy Spirit which I will get to later.
WJ
Keith,I wonder what David would say about Jesus' use of the personal pronoun “ekeinos” in John 14:26? Jesus said of the Spirit that “HE (ekeinos) shall testify of Me.”
Observations:
1. Why the use of the personal pronoun when the word “Spirit” in neuter?
2. How does a non person “testify” of someone?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 13 2010,13:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 14 2010,02:41) Quote (david @ May 13 2010,03:42) You can be filled with it, along with such qualities as wisdom and faith or joy and at 2 Corinthians 6:6, we see that holy spirit is inserted, or sandwiched in, with a number of such qualities.
DavidHow does what you say prove the Spirit is not a person?
You can be filled with God! Jesus is the bread of life. God is a consuming fire. Jesus is the wisdom of God. God is love. Jesus is the truth. God is a rock. Jesus is a rock. All the qualities that you mention are qualities of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
You denegrate the Spirit and make him less than an Angel or a man who is a living being or person. The Holy Spirit is also living and gives life.
The Spirit is not some amorphous impersonal force or power.
In your response to my post you completely skimmed over the scriptures that prove the personality of the Holy Spirit which I will get to later.
WJ
Keith,I wonder what David would say about Jesus' use of the personal pronoun “ekeinos” in John 14:26? Jesus said of the Spirit that “HE (ekeinos) shall testify of Me.”
Observations:
1. Why the use of the personal pronoun when the word “Spirit” in neuter?
2. How does a non person “testify” of someone?
thinker
JackAgain, good point.
Not only that but what about the “evil spirits” spoken of in scriptures.
Are they not sentient beings sent by the prince of darkness to accomplish his purposes?
David and his heretical religion reduces the Holy Spirit to less than evil spirits which are living beings with wills.
WJ
Quote (thethinker @ May 13 2010,13:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 14 2010,02:41) Quote (david @ May 13 2010,03:42) You can be filled with it, along with such qualities as wisdom and faith or joy and at 2 Corinthians 6:6, we see that holy spirit is inserted, or sandwiched in, with a number of such qualities.
DavidHow does what you say prove the Spirit is not a person?
You can be filled with God! Jesus is the bread of life. God is a consuming fire. Jesus is the wisdom of God. God is love. Jesus is the truth. God is a rock. Jesus is a rock. All the qualities that you mention are qualities of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
You denegrate the Spirit and make him less than an Angel or a man who is a living being or person. The Holy Spirit is also living and gives life.
The Spirit is not some amorphous impersonal force or power.
In your response to my post you completely skimmed over the scriptures that prove the personality of the Holy Spirit which I will get to later.
WJ
Keith,I wonder what David would say about Jesus' use of the personal pronoun “ekeinos” in John 14:26? Jesus said of the Spirit that “HE (ekeinos) shall testify of Me.”
Observations:
1. Why the use of the personal pronoun when the word “Spirit” in neuter?
2. How does a non person “testify” of someone?
thinker
JackThis also reminds me of a study I did on the verbs surrounding the Holy Spirit which is proof the Spirit is a person. I will post it here since Davids argument is the Holy Spirit being mentioned in Matt 28:19 is not a person.
So if the Spirit is not a person then why did the translators translate Jn 16:13 and others with the personal pronouns?
Let’s look at the greek words surrounding the pronouns and see if we can understand why.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
”Come”… erchomai, which means…
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the publicThis word is used AV — come 616, go 13, misc 13, vr come 1
It is used almost invariably in association with a person in the NT.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Guide”… hodēgeō, which means… 1) to be a guide, lead on one's way, to guide
2) to be a guide or a teacher
a) to give guidance toThis word is used AV — lead 3, guide 2
100 percent used in association with a person.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Speak”… laleo, which means…
1) to utter a voice or emit a sound
2) to speak
a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech
b) to utter articulate sounds
3) to talk
4) to utter, tell
5) to use words in order to declare one's mind and disclose one's thoughts
a) to speakAV — speak 244, say 15, tell 12, talk 11, preach 6, utter 4, misc 3, vr speak 1
Almost invariably it involves a person with a tongue.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Hear”… akouō, which means…
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
3) to hear something
a) to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
b) to get by hearing learn
c) a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
d) to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
e) to comprehend, to understandAV — hear 418, hearken 6, give audience 3, hearer 2, misc 8
Again, almost invariably associated with a person who has ears.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Shew” anaggello,
1) to announce, make known
2) to report, bring back tidings, rehearseAV — tell 6, show 6, declare 3, rehearse 1, speak 1, report 1
100% associated with a person who has a tongue.
While we are at it lets look at the 14th verse.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Glorify” doxazo,
1) to think, suppose, be of opinion
2) to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
3) to honour, do honour to, hold in honour
4) to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
a) to impart glory to something, render it excellent
b) to make renowned, render illustrious
1) to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledgedAV — glorify 54, honour 3, have glory 2, magnify 1, make glorious 1, full of glory 1
100% associated with a person.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Receive” lambano,1) to take
a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
1) to take up a thing to be carried
2) to take upon one's self
b) to take in order to carry away
1) without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away
c) to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own
1) to claim, procure, for one's self
a) to associate with one's self as companion, attendant
2) of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend
3) to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud
4) to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self
5) catch at, reach after, strive to obtain
6) to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute)
d) to take
1) to admit, receive
2) to receive what is offered
3) not to refuse or reject
4) to receive a person, give him access to one's self,
a) to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something
e) to take, to choose, select
f) to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience
2) to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get backAV — receive 133, take 106, have 3, catch 3, not tr 1, misc 17
Almost invariably associated with a person.
This is only two verses spoken by Jesus and not to mention the Apostles describing the Holy Spirit with personal attributes using personal pronouns.
Should we ignore them?
Is the Holy Spirit a person? If not then what sort of creature is he?
WJ
Hi WJ,
Do you not know the Spirit that you must theorise?
Do you not know God and His son?
Why would you teach?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 14 2010,06:19) Quote (thethinker @ May 13 2010,13:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 14 2010,02:41) Quote (david @ May 13 2010,03:42) You can be filled with it, along with such qualities as wisdom and faith or joy and at 2 Corinthians 6:6, we see that holy spirit is inserted, or sandwiched in, with a number of such qualities.
DavidHow does what you say prove the Spirit is not a person?
You can be filled with God! Jesus is the bread of life. God is a consuming fire. Jesus is the wisdom of God. God is love. Jesus is the truth. God is a rock. Jesus is a rock. All the qualities that you mention are qualities of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
You denegrate the Spirit and make him less than an Angel or a man who is a living being or person. The Holy Spirit is also living and gives life.
The Spirit is not some amorphous impersonal force or power.
In your response to my post you completely skimmed over the scriptures that prove the personality of the Holy Spirit which I will get to later.
WJ
Keith,I wonder what David would say about Jesus' use of the personal pronoun “ekeinos” in John 14:26? Jesus said of the Spirit that “HE (ekeinos) shall testify of Me.”
Observations:
1. Why the use of the personal pronoun when the word “Spirit” in neuter?
2. How does a non person “testify” of someone?
thinker
JackThis also reminds me of a study I did on the verbs surrounding the Holy Spirit which is proof the Spirit is a person. I will post it here since Davids argument is the Holy Spirit being mentioned in Matt 28:19 is not a person.
So if the Spirit is not a person then why did the translators translate Jn 16:13 and others with the personal pronouns?
Let’s look at the greek words surrounding the pronouns and see if we can understand why.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
”Come”… erchomai, which means…
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the publicThis word is used AV — come 616, go 13, misc 13, vr come 1
It is used almost invariably in association with a person in the NT.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Guide”… hodēgeō, which means… 1) to be a guide, lead on one's way, to guide
2) to be a guide or a teacher
a) to give guidance toThis word is used AV — lead 3, guide 2
100 percent used in association with a person.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Speak”… laleo, which means…
1) to utter a voice or emit a sound
2) to speak
a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech
b) to utter articulate sounds
3) to talk
4) to utter, tell
5) to use words in order to declare one's mind and disclose one's thoughts
a) to speakAV — speak 244, say 15, tell 12, talk 11, preach 6, utter 4, misc 3, vr speak 1
Almost invariably it involves a person with a tongue.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Hear”… akouō, which means…
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
3) to hear something
a) to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
b) to get by hearing learn
c) a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
d) to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
e) to comprehend, to understandAV — hear 418, hearken 6, give audience 3, hearer 2, misc 8
Again, almost invariably associated with a person who has ears.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Shew” anaggello,
1) to announce, make known
2) to report, bring back tidings, rehearseAV — tell 6, show 6, declare 3, rehearse 1, speak 1, report 1
100% associated with a person who has a tongue.
While we are at it lets look at the 14th verse.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Glorify” doxazo,
1) to think, suppose, be of opinion
2) to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
3) to honour, do honour to, hold in honour
4) to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
a) to impart glory to something, render it excellent
b) to make renowned, render illustrious
1) to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledgedAV — glorify 54, honour 3, have glory 2, magnify 1, make glorious 1, full of glory 1
100% associated with a person.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Receive” lambano,1) to take
a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
1) to take up a thing to be carried
2) to take upon one's self
b) to take in order to carry away
1) without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away
c) to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own
1) to claim, procure, for one's self
a) to associate with one's self as companion, attendant
2) of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend
3) to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud
4) to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self
5) catch at, reach after, strive to obtain
6) to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute)
d) to take
1) to admit, receive
2) to receive what is offered
3) not to refuse or reject
4) to receive a person, give him access to one's self,
a) to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something
e) to take, to choose, select
f) to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience
2) to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get backAV — receive 133, take 106, have 3, catch 3, not tr 1, misc 17
Almost invariably associated with a person.
This is only two verses spoken by Jesus and not to mention the Apostles describing the Holy Spirit with personal attributes using personal pronouns.
Should we ignore them?
Is the Holy Spirit a person? If not then what sort of creature is he?
WJ
Keith,Your presentation of the personality of the Holy Spirit is impeccable. I read a post much like this from you last year.
WJ:
Quote The verse says the Spirit of truth will… “Hear”… akouō
;, which means…1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
3) to hear something
a) to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
b) to get by hearing learn
c) a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
d) to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
e) to comprehend, to understandAV — hear 418, hearken 6, give audience 3, hearer 2, misc 8
The Holy Spirit is indeed a person because He “hears.” But the anti-trinitarians do not “hear.” Maybe they are not persons.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2010,07:26) Hi WJ,
Do you not know the Spirit that you must theorise?
Do you not know God and His son?
Why would you teach?
So Jesus was “theorizing” when He referred to the Holy Spirit with the personal pronoun and attributed the acts of a person to Him? I see no “theorizing” in WJ's post. What I see is that you are blind.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2010,08:29) Hi TT,
If you knew the Spirit you would not need these weak theories.
Here is my point, how are you telling him he is wrong?What basis do you have?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2010,09:03) Hi SF,
Speculations and myths are not relevant but men still teach them
BUT YOU ARE SPECULATING!!! so your points are not vaild.
what is speculating?
Speculation: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidenceThats what you do in every single message.
so your saying that your own messages are not revelant.
thank you,
I finally understand you
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,09:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2010,09:03) Hi SF,
Speculations and myths are not relevant but men still teach them
BUT YOU ARE SPECULATING!!! so your points are not vaild.
what is speculating?
Speculation: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidenceThats what you do in every single message.
so your saying that your own messages are not revelant.
thank you,
I finally understand you
SFthe fact that you do not understand what Nick says to you ,does not mean he is wrong,
let see what he says;;If you knew the Spirit you would not need these weak theories.
question;do you know what it means to know the spirit ??
what spirit does he speak of ??
and why are those theories weak??
this is how you can make Nick talk,
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,11:47) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,09:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2010,09:03) Hi SF,
Speculations and myths are not relevant but men still teach them
BUT YOU ARE SPECULATING!!! so your points are not vaild.
what is speculating?
Speculation: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidenceThats what you do in every single message.
so your saying that your own messages are not revelant.
thank you,
I finally understand you
SFthe fact that you do not understand what Nick says to you ,does not mean he is wrong,
let see what he says;;If you knew the Spirit you would not need these weak theories.
question;do you know what it means to know the spirit ??
what spirit does he speak of ??
and why are those theories weak??
this is how you can make Nick talk,
Pierre
lol you try making nick talk,Its very complicated.
idk if your a Antitrini or whatever,
But assuming he is part of your group,
than why dont you try to also make the brother talk,if anything i think he is having fun with this,
and loves the attention.I didnt say he was wrong, how can i? he never expresses a full point.
So that means i can not validate or even believe his point because he cant ever fully express with claims.
assuming im actually reading and doing what he asks.
im starting to assume that he doenst care and is not intrested.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,12:46) Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,11:47) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,09:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2010,09:03) Hi SF,
Speculations and myths are not relevant but men still teach them
BUT YOU ARE SPECULATING!!! so your points are not vaild.
what is speculating?
Speculation: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidenceThats what you do in every single message.
so your saying that your own messages are not revelant.
thank you,
I finally understand you
SFthe fact that you do not understand what Nick says to you ,does not mean he is wrong,
let see what he says;;If you knew the Spirit you would not need these weak theories.
question;do you know what it means to know the spirit ??
what spirit does he speak of ??
and why are those theories weak??
this is how you can make Nick talk,
Pierre
lol you try making nick talk,Its very complicated.
idk if your a Antitrini or whatever,
But assuming he is part of your group,
than why dont you try to also make the brother talk,if anything i think he is having fun with this,
and loves the attention.I didnt say he was wrong, how can i? he never expresses a full point.
So that means i can not validate or even believe his point because he cant ever fully express with claims.
assuming im actually reading and doing what he asks.
im starting to assume that he doenst care and is not intrested.
SFif he would not care he would not answer you ,does it
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,12:46) Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,11:47) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,09:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2010,09:03) Hi SF,
Speculations and myths are not relevant but men still teach them
BUT YOU ARE SPECULATING!!! so your points are not vaild.
what is speculating?
Speculation: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidenceThats what you do in every single message.
so your saying that your own messages are not revelant.
thank you,
I finally understand you
SFthe fact that you do not understand what Nick says to you ,does not mean he is wrong,
let see what he says;;If you knew the Spirit you would not need these weak theories.
question;do you know what it means to know the spirit ??
what spirit does he speak of ??
and why are those theories weak??
this is how you can make Nick talk,
Pierre
lol you try making nick talk,Its very complicated.
idk if your a Antitrini or whatever,
But assuming he is part of your group,
than why dont you try to also make the brother talk,if anything i think he is having fun with this,
and loves the attention.I didnt say he was wrong, how can i? he never expresses a full point.
So that means i can not validate or even believe his point because he cant ever fully express with claims.
assuming im actually reading and doing what he asks.
im starting to assume that he doenst care and is not intrested.
Hi SF,
We are not oracles of truth but we know where it is found.
It is best for you to searchQuote Keith, I wonder what David would say about Jesus' use of the personal pronoun “ekeinos” in John 14:26? Jesus said of the Spirit that “HE (ekeinos) shall testify of Me.”
Observations:
1. Why the use of the personal pronoun when the word “Spirit” in neuter?
2. How does a non person “testify” of someone?
thinker
Thinker, would you say “The Blood” and “The Water” are non persons? Yet, they are said to testify or to bear witness. And they are in agreement. Are they persons?
To your first question, I would point out the vast array of times other things are personified in such a way.
To your comment that the word spirit is neuter, I would again quote what I think I said several pages back in a very large post that you most likely didn't read:
“HE, HIS, HIM…OR “IT”
COMFORTOR–“he” “his,” “him”
Jesus personalized the holy spirit when speaking of that spirit as a “helper” (which in Greek is the masculine substantive parakletos). Properly, therefore, John presents Jesus’ words as referring to that “helper” aspect of the spirit with masculine personal pronouns (ie: “him”). On the other hand, in the same context, when the Greek pneuma is used, John employs a neuter pronoun (“it”) to refer to the holy spirit, pneu?ma itself being neuter. Hence, we have in John’s use of the masculine personal pronoun in association with para?kletos an example of conformity to grammatical rules, not an expression of doctrine.—Joh 14:16, 17; 16:7, 8.
Most Trinitarian translators hide this fact, as the Catholic New American Bible admits regarding John 14:17: “The Greek word for ‘Spirit’ is neuter, and while we use personal pronouns in English (‘he,’ ‘his,’ ‘him’), most Greek MSS [manuscripts] employ ‘it.’”Any translation from one language to another must recognize the relative unimportance of gender. For the most part, languages that assign a gender to nouns do so in a rather arbitrary manner. For instance, the Spanish word for car is masculine, el carro, while a bicycle is feminine, la bicicleta. Yet no one would translate into English “the car, he…” or “the bicycle, she…” Either word would require the neuter “it” to reflect the impersonal nature of the object. A writer or a poet might employ such a figurative expression in the use of pronouns, but any reader acquainted with the objects referred to would recognize the figure of speech employed. Such poetic personification is employed in reference to “the Comforter.” Indeed, even today it is common for us to refer to ships of the sea in the feminine gender, but none of us really thinks of them as being real women.
Quote David and his heretical religion reduces the Holy Spirit to less than evil spirits which are living beings with wills. –WJ
ONCE YOU REACH 100, I WILL GIVE YOU A PRIZE FOR YOUR FALSE ACCUSATIONS! You are getting close.
WJ, you are a living being with a will. Do you think that I truly believe that God's holy spirit is “less” than you, or than evil spirits, etc? I never said that.
WJ, what would you do…. how would you respond if I went on a similar campaign against you?…If ignored what you actually believed and said and constantly created these false impressions? How would you react? I'm wondering how you will judge me when I act similarly against you?
Quote This is only two verses spoken by Jesus and not to mention the Apostles describing the Holy Spirit with personal attributes using personal pronouns. Should we ignore them?
Is the Holy Spirit a person? If not then what sort of creature is he?
–WJ
You really don't read anything I write, do you? Yes, you point out that the holy spirit is a guide, etc. I've mentioned everything you have and many more things. Go back and read….
The fact that the Bible does not explicitly mention, explain or teach a trinity is in itself strong proof that the trinity teaching is false. And this is also borne out by what the Bible teaches regarding the holy spirit.
God’s Word will help us and guide us to a correct understanding of the holy spirit. The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit ALL the scriptures that refer to that spirit. For example, one cannot just look at the fact that personal attributes are applied to the holy spirit and conclude that this proves the holy spirit is a person, for personal attributes are definitely applied to very impersonal things in the Bible by means of personification.Personification is a word that means… nevermind.
Just above, we spoke of the Bible as “teaching,” “explaining,” ‘helping’ and ‘guiding.’ Yet we all understand the use of personification and that the Bible isn’t a person, because we can also speak of the Bible in ways that demonstrate it clearly is not a person. The point of this paragraph is that we must therefore find a belief that fits ALL the scriptures.
MATTHEW 12:28
“But if it is by means of GOD'S SPIRIT that I expel the demons, the kingdom of God has really overtaken YOU.”
LUKE 11:20
“But if it is by means of GOD'S FINGER I expel the demons, the kingdom of God has really overtaken YOU.”The “spirit of God” is synonymous with the “hand” and “the finger” of God (Ezek. 3:14; Job 26:13; Ps. 8:3; Luke 11:20).
It is nonsense to call a “co-equal and co-eternal person” the “hand” and finger” of another such person. In fact, as a man’s hand and finger are subordinate and submissive to the will of a man, so the spirit of God is subordinate to the will of God. As what is done by the hand of a man is done by the man himself, so what is done by the spirit of God is done by God Himself. His spirit is his will in action, performing that which He “sends” it to perform.
I think calling God's holy spirit “God's finger” helps us to reason out what the holy spirit is. We all know what our fingers are. They are a part of us that helps us to make things happen.
Over and over again, we see that God's holy spirit is mentioned in action. It is never still, stagnent. It's never spoken of as just sitting around pictured in heaven, with Jehovah and Jesus, for example.
It is God's finger. And what are fingers or “hand.”And what do our fingers or hands do? Whatever we want them to.
God's holy spirit is used by God to carry out his purpose and will.
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