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Quote David A quick response.
So you are saying that Jesus “own words” prove nothing?
This is a mandate to the church from the Lord himself!
One name given for three “distinct identities” all spoken of with the definite article which implies persons.
Why don't you address this point instead of creating all these diversions and smoke screens?
Are you serious?
WJ, I am the one that created this point, this topic. It is impossible for me to create a diversion from it. I have not failed to answer any questions.
Your post above is a diversion.Quote One name given for three “distinct identities” all spoken of with the definite article which implies persons.
WJ, are you suggesting that the Blood, the Water, are persons?
And I'm not sure putting a “the” in front of the word “Water” suggests that this “Water” is a person.
Is that normal thinking? It indicates a definiteness, not personality.WJ, page 4, second post:
WJ's TACTICS WHEN HE DOESN'T HAVE SCRIPTURES TO SUPPORT HIMSELF:
He begins:I am sure our Lord Jesus would have plenty to say about your claim that his words “prove nothing” but only that some can count to three. This is the typical response of the JWs who do not respect Jesus own words but in fact love to make his words of none effect.
FALSE ACCUSATION: I did not say Jesus words prove nothing, but I said that there being 3 mentioned proves nothing in regard to a trinity.
ATTACKING THE PERSON: I guess because I'm a JW, I'm wrong on this and everything. I'm sure some weak people will buy that. Nice and honorable WJ.Moving on:
Quote The definition of a Trinity is what Jesus speaks of in the fullest since of the word, since he speaks of three separate identities with the definite article and a singular name or authority that the Apostles were to baptize into. There is nothing in the verse that implies inequality with the three. –WJ
Your definition of a trinity: “Three separate identities with the definite article and a singular name or authority that the Apostles were to baptize into.” (italics added)
I don't think that definition fits, since God's holy spirit is so very often used in a possesive sense. It is “His” holy spirit, and is referred to as his finger, or arm. It is something he posses's. Is your finger or arm a separate identity from you, WJ? Or is it a part of you, something you possess?More than a hundred times the holy spirit is referred to as “the spirit of Jehovah,” “God’s spirit,” “my spirit” and “spirit of Jesus Christ.” All such possessive uses of the holy spirit further argue that it is an instrumentality rather than a separate and distinct person.—Judg. 3:10; Matt. 3:16; Acts 2:18; Phil. 1:19; Ps 51:11; Joel 2:28,29
Further, in a large number of cases, the holy spirit appears in the greek without the article, thus indicating a lack of personality, or “separate identity” as you say.
Quote There is nothing in the verse that implies inequality with the three.
We're not trying to prove a negative. Is there anything in the verses with Jesus, God and the angels that “imply” inequality? No. My entire argument is that this verse does not prove or even help to prove a trinity. Your job is to prove that it positively does, not to point out what it doesn't do. I am already pointing out what it doesn't do.Quote Also it must have been total “disrespect of immense magnitude” for Jesus to speak of the three knowing that he would inspire the Apostles to often speak of the 2 yet sometimes of the three. Not to mention the disrespect of our Lord to the Father for mentioning a mere force or power with equal terms in the mandate, namely a singular name! We must recongnize the role that God's holy spirit plays. It is not just “a mere force or power” but it is The Almighty Jehovah God's force to accomplish his will. Would you describe that as a mere force?
It is the acting power of God in our lives. Is that a little thing to you?Quote This is a ridiculous question, seeing that the Holy Spirit is often spoken of without the mention of the Father or Jesus which we will get into later.
Since “God's holy spirit” is so often used possesively as something God possesses, it is never really spoken of as separately from God any more than your finger is spoken of as separately from you.Quote It sure doesn’t prove there isn't three (or a Trinity) does it David? Again, you are accusing the Lord of not proving anything by his words!
FALSE ACCUSATION ALERT!
Actually, I'm accusing YOU, wj, of saying that Jesus is proving something about a trinity, when in fact he is not.WJ, do you think you have to continually RESHAPE my argument in order for you to “win”? Here comes another example:
Quote So according to your logic it was an “unbelievable and UNEXPLAINABLE OVERSIGHT ” of our Lord to mention the Holy Spirit in a divine mandate to the Church in the same sentence with the Father and the Son, and then ascribing “a singular Name” or authority to the three knowing that Paul would sometimes speak of two, right David? When will you stop accusing the Lord of ignorance! Did he make a mistake in his words?
You are just plain lying here. I am not accusing the Lord of ignorance. I am asking if Paul who continually mentioned that God AND Jesus sent their greetings somehow did not know about the holy spirit. The other question I continually ask is, “Why did the holy spirit not want to send us 'His' greetings”? It's a question you haven't answered yet.I then asked this question:
QUESTION 3: If “the holy spirit” were an integral and personal part of a triune Godhead, then why does “He” not send “His” personal greetings as well? (Is he not conscious of us or does he just not care to send a greeting?)
I can't find an answer in his answer, can you?Quote What are you saying David, that the Holy Spirit is not one with the Father and Jesus? Of course he is conscience of us. He is the “Counselor”, or Greek (paraklētos) which means;
1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessorHere are a few examples of how the Holy Spirit is conscience of us and cares for us…
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you for ever; [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom “the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, NEITHER KNOWETH HIM: BUT YE KNOW HIM; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you”. John 14:16, 17
Notice David, the world does not “know him” but we “know him”, how about you? He abides with us forever! Will you make Jesus words of none effect again?
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, “he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you”. John 14:26
Here we see the Holy Spirit will teach us all things and bring all things to our remembrance that Jesus has spoken. So he is our teacher as well.
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, Acts 7:55
Here we see the three
again David, and notice it is the Holy Spirit that is filling Stephen and showing him the Lord Jesus at the Fathers right hand. This truly reveals the Holy Spirit carrying out his role, which is to empower the believer and reveal the Father and Jesus to them, and not speak of himself. (John 16:13)Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the “comfort (Greek paraklēsis) of the Holy Ghost”, were multiplied. Acts 9:31
Here we see the Holy Spirit is strengthening and encouraging the Church. The Greek paraklēsis means;
1) a calling near, summons, (esp. for help)
2) importation, supplication, entreaty
3) exhortation, admonition, encouragement
4) consolation, comfort, solace; that which affords comfort or refreshmentAn amorphous force or power doesn’t do those things David.
Was there any sort of answer to my actual question in there WJ?I will continue on in another post.
My question:
“QUESTION 4: If there were a third person involved, wouldn’t Paul have surely known about it and included “Him” in his greetings to the congregations? (What does it mean that Paul was unaware of the holy spirit being part of a triune God?)”WJ's response:
“I thought you just asked this. It is Jesus that speaks of the third person in Matthew 28:19 unless you want to say that the Father and Jesus are not persons. Jesus gives us no indication the Holy Spirit is not equally a person. How does Paul’s greetings invalidate Jesus own words?”YES, THEY ARE THE SAME QUESTION. DO YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE I KNEW YOU WOULDN'T ANSWER #3. IN FACT, MOST OF THESE ARE THE SAME QUESTION, WRAPPED UP DIFFERENTLY IN HOPES YOU WILL MAKE A MISTAKE AND ACCIDENTLY ANSWER ONE OF THEM!
Quote It is Jesus that speaks of the third person in Matthew 28:19 unless you want to say that the Father and Jesus are not persons.
And so, taking this logic a step further, the blood and the water, they must be the same nature as the holy spirit? Is that true? Is that consistent logic? When 3 are listed, do they have to all be people or all be things? Must they all be the same nature? When God, Jesus and the angels are listed, are they all the same nature? Is the holy spirit, the water, and the blood all the same nature?ANOTHER FALSE ACCUSATION:
I never said that “Paul’s greetings invalidate Jesus own words.” I thought I made it clear by asking the same question 10 times, but what I am saying is that Matthew 28:19 does not prove a trinity, or that listing 3 together does not prove a trinity. If it did prove that, we'd have different trinities all over the Bible.WJ, why can you not just look at what I am actually saying, instead of creating these false arguments, continually saying I'm trying to prove Jesus wrong, or say that what Jesus said doesn't mean anything.
MY ARGUMENT: What Jesus said means a great deal. This scripture is one I use a lot, in explaining to people why I am at their door. It is Jesus command, and a commision I take seriously. But, what Jesus said here mentioning 3 does not prove a trinity. Consider the rest of the Bible and how people and things are listed together. I would expect that probability would have God, Jesus and the holy spirit mentioned together more than once, even if we cut out those words and randomly glued the bible back together. Consider the whole Bible.
Quote Who says Paul ignores him? # Paul remembers how the Holy Spirit separated him and Barnabas for the work of the ministry! Acts 13:2-4
Why didn’t the writer mention the Fathers name here or Jesus name?
# Paul remembered how they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to preach the word in Asia and not to go into Bithynia. Acts 16:6, 7
Why didn’t the writer mention the Father or Jesus in these verses?
# Paul said that the Holy Spirit compelled him to go to Jerusalem and warned him that prison and hardships awaited him there. Acts 20:22, 23
Why didn’t Paul mention the Father or Jesus in these verses?
It is Paul that encourages the overseers of the church to feed the flock of which the Holy Spirit had made them overseers. Acts 20:28
Why didn’t Paul mention the Father or Jesus here?
# Paul remembered that the Holy Spirit through the prophet spoke that he would be bound and turned over to the gentiles in Jerusalem. Acts 21:10, 11
Why didn’t the writer mention the Fathers name or Jesus here?
# Paul speaks of the Holy Spirit as being the one that fills our hearts with the Love of God. Rom 5:5
2 are spoken of here.# Paul says the Holy Spirit sanctifies the gentiles. Rom 15:16
3 are spoken of here.# Paul speaks of the Love of the Spirit. Rom 15:30
3 are spoken of here.# Paul says the Spirit teaches us spiritual things. 1 Cor 2:10-16
3 Are spoken of here.# Paul says our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. The Temple is the house of God. 1 Cor 6:19, 20
2 are spoken of here.# Paul says that no man can call Jesus “Lord” but by the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12:3
3 are spoken of here.# Paul says we have fellowship (koinōnia) with the Spirit. 2 Cor 13:4 – Phil 2:1, 2
3 are spoken of here.# Paul also speaks of the three in 1 Thess 1:6-8 – 1 Peter 1:2 – Jude 20,21
So what is your point again David? This is only a few times that Paul mentions the Holy Spirit and how he is very active in his life and the life of the church. In fact I have counted 123 times in his writings that he mentions the Holy Spirit playing an active part of the life of the believer and the church.
Thank you for illustrating my point. You counted 123 times Paul mentions the holy spirit. How many of those times is it listed together as a triune God, with God and Jesus? How many times does Paul tell us to worship the holy spirit, or to love it?
I was commenting on how it was odd, (and it is odd) that:
In those many letters, we find,
GOD SENDS HIS GREETINGS. and
JESUS SENDS HIS GREETINGS and
that's it.Over and over and over again, almost the same phrase is used, of God and Jesus sending greetings.
It's like the holy spirit doesn't love us. Hey, wait a second. Nowhere in the Bible does it say he loves us, or that we are to love “it.” Yet, we are commanded this of God and Jesus, and told they love us repeatedly.Quote Are you saying Jesus words are not equally valid? You haven’t addressed the fact that Jesus speaks of the three as a mandate for the Apostles to follow in baptism by using one name (authority) for the three. There is no indication Jesus is implying inequality here. FALSE IMPLICATION.
I am not saying Jesus words are not equally valid. What I am saying is that Paul's inspired words, (the whole Bible) is valid. I'm also saying that Jesus words are extremely valid, but do not prove a trinity in any form, to any degree. And while there is no indication of inequality here, is there any indication of inequality when God, Jesus and the angels are mentioned together? What does this prove? Again, you are stating a negative. You should be trying to prove your case. All I'm saying is you have no case.
Did Jesus say to be “using one name (authority) for the three.”? You seem to understand that name represents authority. It is saying to baptize in the authority of God, his son and God's holy spirit.People often speak of doing something in the name of the government, or of the law. Yet, it is not a person.
I understand your position David, but this is what the bible says about The Holy Spirit
Genesis 1
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
How can he be called the spirit of God and not be God?
Gen. 6:1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
1Sam. 11:5 Just then Saul was returning from the fields, behind his oxen, and he asked, “What is wrong with the people? Why are they weeping?” Then they repeated to him what the men of Jabesh had said. 6When Saul heard their words, the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he burned with anger.
Matthew 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him (KJV)Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy GhostIsa. 11:1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. 2The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him– the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD
This is a good one and I want to elaborate on this last verse.
God being the originator of all things, is the originator of truth, power, knowledge, wisdom…basically all things good.
So being the originator of it, God is truth, in the same light truth is of God. God is wise in the same light, wisdom is of God.
So with that logic…
God is Jesus in the same light that Jesus is of God.
God is the holy spirit in the same light the holy spirit is of God.
You need to understand, God is everything and in everything good.
This means God is EVERYTHING, but EVERYTHING is not god….but OF God
God transcends all existence.
So when we try to picture Jesus as God we're wrong because Jesus isn't God…God is Jesus.
Jesus was a man.It's paradoxical in nature but it's truth.
You say paradox is a way of saying we don't understand but you are very wrong my friend.
For example: God is an unchanging God.
But we see him changing his mind about a lot of things in the bible.Ney Sayers would say it's a contradiction, but it actually makes perfect sense. And therefore is paradoxical.
God doesn't change, he is who he is…but he responds to US who do change, with his perfect unchanging love.
So an unchanging God who loves you, doesn't hate you because he changed his mind to hate you, he hates you when YOU change your mind to hate him by sinning. And his unchanging mind loves righteousness but hates sin. Therefore he is unchanging in his mind, but changing according to your faith….Paradoxical but makes perfect sense.
This is the mystery of the bible, anything seemingly contradictory in fact is paradoxical and works.
Jesus isn't God, God is Jesus. He's fully man, Yet fully God. Paradoxical.
I personally believe you cannot limit God to a trinity…he's beyond that. Our human mind cannot conceal God in a trinity, no more than a computer can comprehend human anatomy….
So stop trying… if the Bible teachs you to worship the holy spirit, do so…if it doesn't then don't.
God being the originator of all things, is the originator of truth, power, knowledge, wisdom…basically all things good.
So being the originator of it, God is truth, in the same light truth is of God. God is wise in the same light, wisdom is of God.
So with that logic…
God is Jesus in the same light that Jesus is of God.
God is the holy spirit in the same light the holy spirit is of God.
You need to understand, God is everything and in everything good.
This means God is EVERYTHING, but EVERYTHING is not god….but OF God
God transcends all existence.
So when we try to picture Jesus as God we're wrong because Jesus isn't God…God is Jesus.
Jesus was a man.It's paradoxical in nature but it's truth.
You say paradox is a way of saying we don't understand but you are very wrong my friend.
For example: God is an unchanging God.
But we see him changing his mind about a lot of things in the bible.Ney Sayers would say it's a contradiction, but it actually makes perfect sense. And therefore is paradoxical.
God doesn't change, he is who he is…but he responds to US who do change, with his perfect unchanging love.
So an unchanging God who loves you, doesn't hate you because he changed his mind to hate you, he hates you when YOU change your mind to hate him by sinning. And his unchanging mind loves righteousness but hates sin. Therefore he is unchanging in his mind, but changing according to your faith….Paradoxical but makes perfect sense.
This is the mystery of the bible, anything seemingly contradictory in fact is paradoxical and works.
Jesus isn't God, God is Jesus. He's fully man, Yet fully God. Paradoxical.
I personally believe you cannot limit God to a trinity…he's beyond that. Our human mind cannot conceal God in a trinity, no more than a computer can comprehend human anatomy….
So stop trying… if the Bible teachs you to worship the holy spirit, do so…if it doesn't then don't.
Hi RM,
Logic does not write very reliable doctrine.
Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit.[Lk4]Does that mean God was filled with God??
Quote Please explain why Jesus would mention the Holy Spirit with the definite article and a singular name if the Holy Spirit is merely a “force” or “power” as you claim? Wouldn’t that be “disrespect of immense magnitude” to the Father and Jesus by speaking of the Holy Spirit on equal terms with the Father and the Son? I don't know that he was speaking on equal terms, but he was saying to recongnize the role the holy spirit plays. Secondly, it is God's spirit, and so it is no small thing, as you continue to allude to.
Quote # The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. 2 Cor 13:14 # The Grace of the Lord Jesus
# The Love of God (mostly referring to the Father, but not always)
# The Communion of the Holy SpiritSo everyone, David and Watchtower wants us to believe that somehow Paul switches from the Father and Jesus being a person that ministers grace and love to the people of God, to the Holy Spirit as being a force or power that ministers communion (Greek koinōnia which means fellowship) of the people of God.
Just how does that work David? So let’s say what you are saying is true. How does a force or power become a source of fellowship with Gods people?
This type of reference, admits McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, “proves only that there are the three subjects named, . . . but it does not prove, by itself, that all the three belong necessarily to the divine nature, and possess equal divine honor.”
Although a supporter of the Trinity, that source says of 2 Corinthians 13:13 (14): “We could not justly infer that they possessed equal authority, or the same nature.”
And of Matthew 28:18-20 it says: “This text, however, taken by itself, would not prove decisively either the personality of the three subjects mentioned, or their equality or divinity.”The fact that baptizing is to be done in the “name” of the holy spirit does not in itself establish that the spirit is a person. Even Trinitarians recognize that the word “name” at Matthew 28:19 does not mean a personal name. Says Greek scholar A. T. Robertson (Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. I, p. 245): “The use of name ([Greek] onoma) here is a common one in the Septuagint and the papyri for power or authority.”
Quote So everyone, David and Watchtower wants us to believe that somehow Paul switches from the Father and Jesus being a person that ministers grace and love to the people of God, to the Holy Spirit as being a force or power that ministers communion (Greek koinōnia which means fellowship) of the people of God.
If I could find other places where there was a similar switch, mentioning God and Jesus and then something that wasn't a being, would that then close this argument?Quote The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all.
I'm not sure what you mean by this “ministering of communion.” It sounds like Catholic talk, and confuses people.“Communion” simply means “sharing.” It's speaking of the sharing of the holy spirit.
In understandable english:
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the [sharing of the holy spirit], be with you all.
[the word “ghost” suggests…it's just wrong and you know it.]We get the grace of Jesus, the love of God and the sharing of the spirit.
When we put it in normal English, how is this hard to understand?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2010,15:58) Hi RM,
Logic does not write very reliable doctrine.
Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit.[Lk4]Does that mean God was filled with God??
Yes it does.BTW Jesus was fully man, the man was filled with God.
Jesus was born of The Holy Spirit and Mary…he was born of God and Man. He walked fully as a man, and was filled fully with God. He also never sinned. No man has ever accomplished that feat…
So Jesus HAD to of been god to never sin by his own will.
Hi RM,
So before your GOD was filled with GOD was he GOD??
How did your GOD change when he became filled with GODQuote
He mentioned him more than once and many times without mentioning the Father or Jesus. So what have you proved David?Your argument is based on what is “not written”, and mine is based on what is written!
Yes, WJ, my argument is that the trinity is not written into the text. Yes, Sometimes just the Father is mentioned, sometimes just Jesus, sometimes just the holy spirit, sometimes just the angels, sometimes just men. Sometimes they are listed together or in various combinations. But does any of that prove anything? If you want to say that it proves something when 3 are listed together, then I can equally say that it proves something that the 2 are repeatedly listed together without the third.
Do either prove more than the other? Do either prove anything?Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2010,16:09) Hi RM,
So before your GOD was filled with GOD was he GOD??
How did your GOD change when he became filled with GOD
He didn't change, God is unchanging. He was fully God before he received the Holy Ghost, he was fully God after.The significance of him receiving the Holy Ghost was to blaze the trail for mankind. If it didn't happen to Jesus, it can't happen to us.
Quote Genesis 1
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
How can he be called the spirit of God and not be God?
Hi Rokkaman.
LUKE 11:20
But if it is by means of God’s finger I expel the demons,Parallel account:
MAT 11:28
But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demonsGod's spirit is his Finger, or his Arm, his strength and means to accomplish his will. In this parallel account, I think that is made plain. The account just says the spirit of God moved along the ground.
I can say that I slide my finger across the table. It doesn't mean I am sliding across the table, but rather that my finger is.
Jesus didn't have to die, but he and the father chose for him to die, because if he didn't die and ressurect…we would die and so too not resurrect.
So like i say, if it didn't happen to Jesus, it won't happen to us. That is why God became Man…to blaze a trail to reconcile us back to him.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2010,16:13) Hi RM,
So who is the son of God if Jesus isn't?
Jesus is The Son of God…who he is as a personality, assumes the role of The Son.Hi RM,
God was in Christ.[2Cor5]
But God was not the human vessel He was in was He?Surely you do not think almighty God is a man?
Quote (david @ May 13 2010,16:13) Quote Genesis 1
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
How can he be called the spirit of God and not be God?
Hi Rokkaman.
LUKE 11:20
But if it is by means of God’s finger I expel the demons,Parallel account:
MAT 11:28
But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demonsGod's spirit is his Finger, or his Arm, his strength and means to accomplish his will. In this parallel account, I think that is made plain. The account just says the spirit of God moved along the ground.
I can say that I slide my finger across the table. It doesn't mean I am sliding across the table, but rather that my finger is.
Can i not also say for myself that, if I yell at you, you hear my voice?In parallel, if I yell at you, you hear my pain?
You cannot takes God's spirit as a literal interpretation as his literal finger.
Because that would be saying my voice is equal to my pain…which we know metaphysically they are different.
You however can metophorically call it as his driving force.
thankyou.
Quote How can he be called the spirit of God and not be God? How can Adam be called the son “of God” and not be God? The fact that the word “of” is in there indicates a relationship and that they are not the same.
The finger of you, is your finger. It is not “you.” It is “of you” or part “of” you. You possess it. It is your finger, just as it is “God's spirit” or the “spirit of God.”
Quote You cannot takes God's spirit as a literal interpretation as his literal finger. You however can metophorically use it as his driving force.
That is what I do. I do not think God has a literal finger. But, for the sake of understanding, he inspired that to be written. We understand what a finger is and what it can do. Similarly, in the Hebrew scriptures, the spirit is spoken of as his Arm. We know what an arm can do. We understand that the arm is not the person, but is is the arm “of” the person, just as it is the spirit “of” God, and not God himself.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2010,16:16) Hi RM,
God was in Christ.[2Cor5]
But God was not the human vessel He was in was He?Surely you do not think almighty God is a man?
No God was not the Man he was in, The man was a piece of creation spawned from the womb of Mary.God is the spirit that was spawned from the Holy Ghost that dwelled in Mary to conceive Jesus Christ.
This is how Jesus was fully man, yet fully God?
are you done with your redundant questions?
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