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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 29 2010,02:27) Nick………..I think it's better to understand what is written, and some of it (HAS) be tampered with, Brother. peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
Yeah Gene. Any statement in the scripture that you don't like goes into the “tampered with” bin. Matthew 11:27 is included. Right?Jesus said:
27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Jesus CLEARLY said that the Son reveals the Father to whomsoever He wills. But you say this:
“KJ……….The Father will reveal himself to whom ever he choses to”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….3;st=10
According to Jesus: The Son reveals the Father to whomsoever the Son wills
According to Gene: The Father reveals Himself to whom He wills.
This must mean that you think that Matthew 11:27 was “tampered with”.
I an soooo glad all you guys are coming out saying that certain scriptures are not legit (Mike) or tampered with (You) or have suffered scribal changes (David). Your confessions reveal that such scripture texts indeed teach the trinity or else you would not have to say they were “tampered with”.
Did you hear me Gene? Every time you guys say that certain scripture texts were tampered with or corrupted you admit that they teach the trinity. So thanks for your admission. WJ and I will take it any way we can get it. Again we say thanks!
the roo
KJ,
Quote Months back I gave a similar illustration to JA and he ignored it. Or maybe I didn't see it – I hardly think that this is something I would ignore because I was trying to evade answering…
In fact, it's been answered over and over – by ME.
The one delegating the power to the lesser is still above the one whom who delegatged the power to.
That has to be – that is just common sense – nothing to do with Scriptures – it's a natural law.
Other people make mistakes in how they expand the concept but non-the-less it stands – rock solid.
Unless the one giving the power is removing themself completely (A King abdicating – all manner of similies here … think of any situation; Rooky student becoming a Non-rooky for a class – Yes, full power but HIS Teacher has absolved responsibility over him so he is now full master. This latter is not the situation with God and christ – God neither abdicate nor removes himself from HIS throne – ever… He does give Jesus power over His Kingdon – BUT NOT HIS THRONE (Pharoah and Joseph)…
But wait …
Do I not remember asking:
– Could Jesph overthrow Pharoah – write a mandate/edict against Pharoah?
– Enter Pharoah's Hareem?
– Sleep with Pharoah's wife?
– TOUCH THE KING'S WIFE (Ahesereus and HAMAN: Book of Esther)?
– Appoint Another in HIS own place
– Take over the king's Kingdombut the King could:
– APPOINT that one OR APPOINT another (Mordecai over Haman)
– “Take” Back His Seal/Signet Ring (Ahesereus from Haman)
– Allow that one to carry out ANY LAWFUL practice in HIS. the King's Name
– MAKE NEW LAWS in the KING's Name that are LawfulKJ, this is childishly silly – Please don'tt ask me – OR accuse me of not answering your questions – I have no problem – and you know it – perhaps you think to fools other sin this forum – but you only fooling yourself because they are aware of what I write and what you read.
I have left you – and WJ, to go and make war with the others here for a while – Make the most of it – even though you will still not prevail – have fun while you fail – like the naughty boy in the class who thinks that failing his exams is great fun and tries to encourage others to do so – Yeah, Let's be cool and ALL fail – it will be a laugh – a real hoot – yeah I dare you!!
kj,
Just in passing… your last post – “For there are three in Heaven God , Jesus and the Holy Spirit…” as in “The Spirit, Blood and Water”.
Please tell me what was said concerning that addition – was it not found to have been unscriptural – added by TRINITARIANS…?
But carry on… Your own words condemn you…
Quote (JustAskin @ May 29 2010,04:19) kj, Just in passing… your last post – “For there are three in Heaven God , Jesus and the Holy Spirit…” as in “The Spirit, Blood and Water”.
Please tell me what was said concerning that addition – was it not found to have been unscriptural – added by TRINITARIANS…?
But carry on… Your own words condemn you…
JA,I believe that the words “on earth” were added. All else is not disputed.
Verse 7 not disputed: There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit
Bold words in verse 8 disputed: There are three that bear record in earth, the spirit, the water and the blood
Only the two bold words “on earth” in verse 8 are disputed.
The word “Spirit” in verse 7 is the Holy Spirit. The word “spirit in verse 8 is the human spirit of Jesus. The water and the blood refer to the reality of Christ's death. If a malefactor appeared to be dead on the cross the soldier would confirm it by piercing his side. If both water and blood flowed out together then the man was pronounced officially dead. This is how the water and the blood testify. But the spirit in verse 8 was the human spirit of Jesus which is to be distinguished from the Holy Spirit of verse 7.
Ja:
Quote But carry on… Your own words condemn you. 
roo
Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,12:13) The one delegating the power to the lesser is still above the one whom who delegatged the power to. That has to be – that is just common sense – nothing to do with Scriptures – it's a natural law.
JAIn what sense is one greater? The President of the USA is greaater than you but is he less human than you?
You are the head of your wife but is she less human than you?
No, that is just common sense!
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this. So your argument is a straw mans! Or shadows and dust!
WJ
KJ,
Why, you are amazing… I can't stop laughing… Did you really study Scriptures?
The 'normal' way was to break a leg… The soldiers were afraid to touch Jesus, so they pushed a spear into him… Thus fulfilling the prophecy…that not a single one of his bones would be broken…
arggghhhh….
– KJ, “where are you from, and where are you going to?”
KJ,
Are you immune from embarassing yourself.Can you let me know where you studied your Theology?
I want to let everyone know to avoid it.
No, really, I want to talk with your teacher.
I find it so interesting when somebody makes a postto all, and gets ignored. Is it because there is no way to debate that? Makes me wonder. Somebody told me that is what Nick does. Well consider yourselves with Nick then, cause all of you ignored my post……Irene:laugh:
WJ,
So you have rwached rock bottom in your defence.
A King is greater than his servant.
A King is greater than his Son, a Prince.This is the analogy that is being put to childish test in this discussion.
They are both Human.
'They' are both, when in heaven, 'Spirit'.We are not calling into question whether one Spirit is greater than another Spirit, or one flesh and blood body is greater than another flesh and blood body…
Flesh and blood is flesh and blood, dust, in God's view.
Spirit is unseen force that goes where it will (that is, not constrained by time nor space).
What is the difference then between a King and his son or his servant…? Is it not the authorative POSITION of the King (The Throne).
What is the difference between God (?) and Jesus…analogy answers…
JA
Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,14:54) WJ, So you have rwached rock bottom in your defence.
A King is greater than his servant.
A King is greater than his Son, a Prince.This is the analogy that is being put to childish test in this discussion.
It’s the analogy that you are trying to force on God who is Spirit and Jesus who is Spirit.Jesus Spirit is also referred to as the Spirit of God. (Rom 8:9) There is “One Spirit” (1 Cor 12:13 – Eph 2:18 – Eph 4:4), not 2 or three!
Yet the scriptures tell us that the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit dwells in us!
Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,12:13) They are both Human.
'They' are both, when in heaven, 'Spirit'.We are not calling into question whether one Spirit is greater than another Spirit, or one flesh and blood body is greater than another flesh and blood body…
No that is what you are calling into question is that the Spirit of Jesus which is also the Spirit of God is less than God.Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,12:13) Flesh and blood is flesh and blood, dust, in God's view.
Yes and God who is Spirit is One Spirit with Jesus and the Counselor!Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,12:13) Spirit is unseen force that goes where it will (that is, not constrained by time nor space).
So is the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit!Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,12:13) What is the difference then between a King and his son or his servant…? Is it not the authorative POSITION of the King (The Throne).
What does that have to do with their nature as being equally human.God is a title just as man is a title that classifies a particular type of being!
Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,12:13) What is the difference between God (?) and Jesus…analogy answers…
That’s what we have been asking is how Jesus and the Holy Spirit is different from the Father in their respective nature and ontology when all three are omnipresent!WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ May 29 2010,06:29) KJ, Why, you are amazing… I can't stop laughing… Did you really study Scriptures?
The 'normal' way was to break a leg… The soldiers were afraid to touch Jesus, so they pushed a spear into him… Thus fulfilling the prophecy…that not a single one of his bones would be broken…
arggghhhh….
– KJ, “where are you from, and where are you going to?”
The Reformation Study Bible Note:“The blood and water that flowed from Jesus after His death attested to the reality of His death….Both the death and resurrection were denied by the docetists, who denied the humanity of Christ”, p. 1993
John was writing to answer the docetic claim that Jesus did not really die. So John replied saying that the water and blood attested to His death.
JA:
Quote The soldiers were afraid to touch Jesus, so they pushed a spear into him… Thus fulfilling the prophecy…that not a single one of his bones would be broken…
The prophecy was fulfilled because Jesus was dead already and so they did not need to break His legs to finish Him off. Roman law required that the malefactor hang on the cross for a fixed amount of time. When that time had expired and the malefactor was still living the soldiers would break the legs causing the body to fall and asphyxiate the malefactor. If the malefactor appeared dead already they would pierce his side to confirm death. If water came out with blood they knew that the malefactor was dead.Theological & grammatical Phrasebook of the Bible:
“The question is, What did that signify? The anser is found in the nature of the crucifixion, which is an agonizing way to bring asphyxiation. The full weight of the body is suspended from the arms so that insufficient respiration results and the organs slowly die from a loss of oxygen. The immediate result is that the pleural spaces fill with liquid. When the soldier thrust the spear into Jesus' side, the watery fluid from the pleura and the blood from the heart flowed out. That one fact proved beyond any doubt that Jesus was dead”, p. 10
JA:
Quote The soldiers were afraid to touch Jesus, so they pushed a spear into him… 
They thrust the spear into Him TO CONFIRM THAT HE WAS DEAD! The water and the blood confirmed His death so they did not need to break His bones to asphyxiate Him. Thus the prophecy that a bone would not be broken was fulfilled.
Stick to fishin JA
KJ
JustAskin erroneously said:
Quote A King is greater than his Son, a Prince.
In Hebrew culture the the fully investitured son was equal to the king.roo
WJ,
You are fully aware of what you are saying…
You are fully aware that you are talking at cross purposes.
You are fully aware that the Position of one is what differentiates one over another, not their 'nature'.
Are not, even the Angels, Spirit?
So, by your analogy, all the Angels, (yes, the 'Mighty Ones', KJ!) are 'God Amighty' also.
This is an amazing revelation.
I'm sure God the Father, YHVH, is intrigued at your suggestion, ney, your assertion!
You are making yourself to appear hard of understanding but not lacking in deceitful ideas and thoughts.
Spirit is Spirit, Angels are Spirit, God is Spirit, Holy Spirit is Spirit, Jesus is Spirit…
All that exist in Heaven, in any place not in the earthly realm, is Spirit.You question is that one from a three year old.
Man occupies a four dimensions world: Length, breadth, depth and time. Man can only be in one three dimensional Space at any one Time.
Spirits, not subject to limited Space and Time, in tne Fifth dimension, can be move from ONE Space-Time to a different Space in the Same time, but only One, so can 'appear' anywhere AT any Time.
Sixth dimension, a lower heaven, Spirit, can be in more than One Space at more than one Time. Can appear at many places at the Same Time.
Seventh dimension, seventh Heaven, so to speak: Spirit can appear in Every Space at Every Time.
What is hard to understand about that!
After the angelic rebellion, those angels were banned from the seventh and sixth, And the Fourth dimension.
They cannot occupy earth space, cannot make flesh and blood bodies and occupy them, And were displaced from the Presence of God in the seventh and sixth Heavens.
WJ, how do you not know any of these things, or are you just testing for weakness. WJ, test on (Test, not Tempt…)
Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,16:04) WJ, You are fully aware of what you are saying…
You are fully aware that you are talking at cross purposes.
You are fully aware that the Position of one is what differentiates one over another, not their 'nature'.
Are not, even the Angels, Spirit?
So, by your analogy, all the Angels, (yes, the 'Mighty Ones', KJ!) are 'God Amighty' also.
This is an amazing revelation.
I'm sure God the Father, YHVH, is intrigued at your suggestion, ney, your assertion!
You are hard of understanding, not lacking in deceitful ideas and thoughts.
Spirit is Spirit, Angels are Spirit, God is Spirit, Holy Spirit is Spirit, Jesus is Spirit…
All that exist in Heaven, in any place not in the earthly realm, is Spirit.You question is that one from a three year old.
Man occupies a four dimensions world: Length, breadth, depth and time. Man can only be in one three dimensional Space at any one Time.
Spirits, not subject to limited Space and Time, in tne Fifth dimension, can be move from ONE Space-Time to a different Space in the Same time, but only One, so can 'appear' anywhere AT any Time.
Sixth dimension, a lower heaven, Spirit, can be in more than One Space at more than one Time. Can appear at many places at the Same Time.
Seventh dimension, seventh Heaven, so to speak: Spirit can appear in Every Space at Every Time.
What is hard to understand about that!
After the angelic rebellion, those angels were banned from the seventh and sixth, And the Fourth dimension.
They cannot occupy earth space, cannot make flesh and blood bodies and occupy them, And were displaced from the Presence of God in the seventh and sixth Heavens.
WJ, how do you not know any of these things, or are you just testing for weakness. WJ, test on (Test, not Tempt…)
JAMore “ad hominems”,
it is becoming more and more a waste of time with you!So where is all that written in scriptures?
Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,16:04) Seventh dimension, seventh Heaven, so to speak: Spirit can appear in Every Space at Every Time.
True, and the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit can be every where at the same time, scriptures puts it like this “God fills all things!”.Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,16:04) So, by your analogy, all the Angels, (yes, the 'Mighty Ones', KJ!) are 'God Amighty' also.
No just more of your misrepresentations!So tell us JA, how do you compare Jesus and the Holy Spirit to other spirits since other spirits cannot be every where at the same time? Hello? Please stop all your spin and explain this without a bunch of “ad hominems”!
WJ
KJ,
A Prince is equal to A King…?Show me where you get that twaddle from. I have heard you saying this to others. Yet, you, and only you, not even Is1, WJ, or anyone.
Show me a Scripture, please.
Quote (JustAskin @ May 29 2010,08:16) KJ,
A Prince is equal to A King…?Show me where you get that twaddle from. I have heard you saying this to others. Yet, you, and only you, not even Is1, WJ, or anyone.
Show me a Scripture, please.
JA,A fully investitured son in the Hebrew culture became the King in the Father's place. Geez! You're talking Occidental culture. I am talking Oriental culture.
Did Jesus ride into Jerusalem as Israel's KING or not (John 12)?
roo
WJ,
What is wrong with Truth. Have you decided to put it to bed. It is then no wonder that you lack wisdom.In fact, I don't detect that you lack wisdom. You are not unwise, you are just abusing your wisdom, and, ironically, is not wise!
I HAVE just explained things to you. What is wrong with you?
I do know what is wrong with you.
You are stuck, you cannot get away from the truth of what you read so you try to turn the table on your attacker…like I said, you are not unwise, just, unwise in the way you use your wisdom!
Positional authority.
God is Spirit in the seventh heaven, the King over ALL Kings, over Jesus, even as he, Jesus is King over All kings of the earth.
God is the Grand Contents list of the content list of all books, the list that includes itself in it's own listing of contents. GOD is All in All.
Jesus is Spirit, in a Spirit body, meaning he can become Man as he chooses or Spirit as he chooses.
The Holy Spirit is God's Holy Spirit. It is God's Spirit – the Spirit of God.
Who just wrote, KJ, WJ?, that the Holy Spirit is Jesus' Spirit,…ha, wonders…when did that occur…never…'I will ask the Father and he will send the Spirit…', it wasn't Jesus' Spirit, but the Father's. Jesys asked the father for His, the Father's Spirit.
This is such a nonesense argument…
I will not undulge youin this nonesense because it is clear that you are not ignorant of the deliberate nonesense you are writing.
If this is what Trinitarians do when they cannot, and they cannot with clear conscience, defend the trinity, then it is no wonder those things are written in Scriptures about you.
WJ, I'm trying to get you out,
Extricate You to Jesus, not Execute to You to Satan;
Extract you from Sin, not Distract you from Truth,
Align you to God, nor resign you to Hell!Quote (JustAskin @ May 29 2010,08:53) KJ, Show me a scripture showing, illustrating your theory.
JA,I have already explained it from Galatians 4. Now answer my question: Did Jesus ride into Jerusalem as the King of Israel or not?
roo
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