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Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 10 2008,20:17) Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 10 2008,18:47) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 10 2008,18:21) You would probaby say me while WJ would probably say Nick. Mind you that would be subjective opinion, not objective truth (although one is right).
So truth is a guessing game then?It's kinda like being told that you have to pay your mortgage or you will lose your house, but no one tells you how much to pay or where to send the check. There is a right answer that can prevent trouble, but you'll have to guess at it.
I would say truth is more elusive than objective.
In the words of Pontus Pilate:“What is truth?”
I completely understand your position Mandy. In fact, I relate very much to your thoughts.
I continue to search myself.
I will tell you that the only thing I am dogmatic on is the following.
There is a God.
God is Truth.
God is Light.
God is Love.
Jesus taught of this God.
Inside of me is my spirit that came from him.
Inside of me is where the truth can be found. Not necessarily facts and data. But facts about God's nature and how we are to conduct ourselves. I call it my moral compass. I study ancient holy writings and history and science…etc. But none of them replaces the spirit in me.
I don't think that the spirits intent is to give of information about doctrine or any other downloaded information. I think it is about morality and love.
I think most Christians give lip service to being led by the spirit, when in reality they actually mean that they think they are understanding properly the meaning of a written passage in the bible.
I am talking about listening to the spirit that guides you. As I walk down a street to I help that man on the corner begging? The spirit will tell me if I really listen and usually the answer is yes. Should I walk up to a homosexual and tell him faggots go to hell? Abolutely Not! says the spirit. Do you see what I mean?
In the end Mandy remember this one thing and ponder it:
If God really really really does Love you and you really really really are sincerely seeking truth and light then what does the spirit inside you tell you how he will respond to you when you meet him face to face?
I hope you can hear what the spirit inside you says.
Hi SOL,
The world never will know what truth is as stu explains too.
Your word is truth is what Jesus said to His God.
I believe him but many wonderQuote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 11 2008,11:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,09:26) Many here have rather decided to base their faith on their intuition, their observations and logic.
But isn't this the topic after all? Where to base one's faith?Nick, you base your faith in the sacred writings of God's Word; the bible. This is the base of your faith. However, you have still not shown me how you can have such committment to a book that does not dole-out “truth” equally. How is it that you read this basis for faith and receive a version of truth, and someone else reads this basis for faith and receives another version of the truth?
That foundation sounds a bit shaky to me. Even more, it sounds like it changes according to who is standing on it. Shaky and shifty are two words you definitely don't want associated with a foundation.
If you want other's to place their faith on the basis which you have placed yours…..in the truth……in the only truth…..the Word of God/the Holy Bible, then you will have to give greater testimony as to why. Or do you not believe that the saying, “Have faith.” is pretty ambiguous? If you don't think so, review some of the pages here from God fearing souls.
Tell me, does Isaiah have faith? I'm sure you'll answer yes. If so, is his foundation as secure as yours? You believe in two different Gods. You both base your faith on the Bible.
The base of our faith should be in God's Word. The bible. Then we will have truth. Yes?
Base – faith – truth.
Isaiah's base is the Word of God, I presume. His faith is in God. He believes the Trinity is true.
Your base is the Word of God, I know. Your faith is in God. You believe that there is no Trinity.
Same base – different outcomes. Seems like a reliable base to me. Not.
Hi mandy,
ASK ANY TRINITARIAN WHERE THE TRINITY IS TAUGHT IN THE BIBLE AND THEY WILL GO QUIET.It is not.
But you will be offered a range of inferences and esoteric speculations.
We do have to teach
what is taught.Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 11 2008,11:27) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 11 2008,10:41) Yes, it is possible to disprove things. Stuart
It is impossible to disprove God and that He exists. It is possible to prove His existence contrary to what many believe.
You need to talk to Son of Light about that. Kant says you can't prove god. So do I. So does your lack of proof for god!Stuart
Hi stu,
Current scientific experiments have failed to prove the existence of God.
Perhaps the parameters were too small
and the tools too weak.However millions have met Him.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,14:33) Hi stu,
Current scientific experiments have failed to prove the existence of God.
Perhaps the parameters were too small
and the tools too weak.However millions have met Him.
Have you met god? Did he tell you that the Judeo-christian bible was the book to read? Was it a voice in your head, or did you really hear or see something (despite what some verses say)?Stuart
Careful Nick, there's a van waiting outside of your home. How you answer this question will determine whether or not they will break out the straight jacket.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,12:27) Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 10 2008,18:12) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 10 2008,18:07) I thought you would have known all this stuff Mandy.
Oh, don't mind me – I'm throwing out everything I thought I knew. I'm starting from scratch.Your main point was that truth is a solid definition. That truth is somehow given or guided through the Spirit. But when it comes to deciding who has this “real” truth and who does not, well, it becomes a sticky-wicket, doesn't it? We are forced to speculate that some choose not to be guided…
Hi mandy,
Did I hear a baby screaming.
Poor shivering little fella
Kinda blue.
Yes Nick, the baby is going out with the bath water.It appears that there are many forms, brands, and versions of the truth. And you cannot tell me which one is the correct one. Sort of like the bible – it has truth – but it's not telling us what it is. Sure, it gives out hints and clues but then ultimately leaves the reader to make up his or her own mind as to the interpretation. This leads me to believe that there is not just ONE truth.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,12:48) Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 11 2008,11:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,09:26) Many here have rather decided to base their faith on their intuition, their observations and logic.
But isn't this the topic after all? Where to base one's faith?Nick, you base your faith in the sacred writings of God's Word; the bible. This is the base of your faith. However, you have still not shown me how you can have such committment to a book that does not dole-out “truth” equally. How is it that you read this basis for faith and receive a version of truth, and someone else reads this basis for faith and receives another version of the truth?
That foundation sounds a bit shaky to me. Even more, it sounds like it changes according to who is standing on it. Shaky and shifty are two words you definitely don't want associated with a foundation.
If you want other's to place their faith on the basis which you have placed yours…..in the truth……in the only truth…..the Word of God/the Holy Bible, then you will have to give greater testimony as to why. Or do you not believe that the saying, “Have faith.” is pretty ambiguous? If you don't think so, review some of the pages here from God fearing souls.
Tell me, does Isaiah have faith? I'm sure you'll answer yes. If so, is his foundation as secure as yours? You believe in two different Gods. You both base your faith on the Bible.
The base of our faith should be in God's Word. The bible. Then we will have truth. Yes?
Base – faith – truth.
Isaiah's base is the Word of God, I presume. His faith is in God. He believes the Trinity is true.
Your base is the Word of God, I know. Your faith is in God. You believe that there is no Trinity.
Same base – different outcomes. Seems like a reliable base to me. Not.
Hi mandy,
ASK ANY TRINITARIAN WHERE THE TRINITY IS TAUGHT IN THE BIBLE AND THEY WILL GO QUIET.It is not.
But you will be offered a range of inferences and esoteric speculations.
We do have to teach
what is taught.
OK, Nick, thanks anyway.not3in1 Everyone who is in the Spirit and has been born again should understand what the scriptures are telling us. The Bible is like a big Puzzle that we have to put together. If there might be some scripture that looks like that it does not agree with each other, but when you take the whole picture it fits. You can't take it out of contact, and I believe that is were some might be making their mistake of understanding scriptures. The Holy Spirit guides us in all truths. We just have to listen what the Spirit is telling us. Then we all come together in the unity of Jesus Christ. The Church is spiritual and in Spirit and in truth you should worship God. Prove all things. And hold fast what is good. Have you been born again? That should be the first step in your Christian Life. Seek the Kingdom of God first and all will be given to you.
Hi saywf,
I think that you have missed not3in1's whole point.
She has clearly stated that she understands all that you say, but many people
on this forum, and throughout Christianity claim to have been born again and led
by the spirit, but still come up with completely different truths.Is your truth the right one? Why would the spirit lead some to the wrong truth?
Tim
Nobody could convince me that nick is any more in the spirit than is worshippingJesus.
And yet they both see a different truth.
I on the other hand may be totally lacking the help of the spirit. Because I see things
differently than either one of these gentlemen.Tim
Tim, I appreciate you so much brother. You always speak from your heart.
Have you ever wondered if there isn't a “Spirit” who leads and guides? I have. I'm not saying have you ever wondered if there isn't a God, to me that is different.
In the OT the “Spirit” didn't guide people into truth; God did. He used signs and wonders; he used prophets and the angels. There was no personal spirit that guided anyone. The children in the desert followed a flame and a cloud, for instance. What if they had the so-called personal spirit to guide them back then………do you think they would have ever found the promised land? I highly doubt it. They would have been scattered – like we are here on HeavenNet.
I believe there is a God, and I love him. But beyond that I'm beginning to wonder if Christianity and even other religions for that matter, are not security blankets for those who need comfort in the middle of the night? I want truth. And so far, no one can tell me what their version of the truth is based on other than the bible. If one must base “truth” on something OR someone…..that it should be the same truth that is revealed to everyone who approaches this something OR someone. Otherwise?? Just my rambling thoughts this morning over tea.
I spent a great deal of time this early morning gazing up at the sky and praising God for who he is – the Creator of this amazing creation that I am a part of; the Creator of me. However, as I have said, beyond that I know nothing anymore.
Quote (seek and you will find @ Jan. 11 2008,20:25) The Bible is like a big Puzzle that we have to put together.
Hi Seek,I've never been a fan of puzzles.
Besides, truth should not be a game. Especially when our lives supposedly depend on it. That's a cruel game, if you ask me.
Yes, lets look at the “truth” that various people know:
(1) God – only one, or 3-in-1, or oneness, or a form of henotheism with Jesus as a little god, etc.
(2) Salvation – believing in Jesus and baptism, believing in Jesus but baptism necessary, repentance and believing and baptism, etc.
(3) Status of salvation – “once saved always saved”, can lose salvation, all people are saved (universalism)
(4) Jesus – an angel, a god, a man, preexisting, not existing until his earthly birth, etc.
(5) hell – literal place unbelievers will go to, the grave, etc.
(6) lake of fire – unbelievers will be tossed into it and burn forever, unbelievers will be thrown into it and cease to exist, etc.
(7) satan – literal evil guy who fell from heaven with 1/3 of the angels, a general term for adversary, etc.
(8) demons – satan's little minions, a superstition amongst people of the 1st century to explain illnesses, etc.
(9) gifts – healing and prophecy no longer available as a gift, some still have it, some believe in tongues while others do not, etc.
(10) baptism – full immersion, sprinkling, OK to baptise children, not OK, etc.
(11) age of consent – some believe children are saved automatically until a certain age, some do not (if they die they will just be dead), etc.This is just a list of things off the top of my head, but it certainly gives you the idea that someone has to be wrong. Question is, who is it? Who gets to say?
Kejonn, I've always admired your scholarly mind. Thanks for the list!
You know, here's a wild and crazy thought……why does someone have to be wrong? Why can't we all be right? I think it's most incrediable to think there is only one “right” way but no way to find THE WAY, exactly. Good grief. Even that sentence sounds ridiculous and it makes sense!
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