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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,07:55) Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 11 2008,07:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,07:39) You know the word is truth. Don't let the missionaries of doubt shake your confidence.
I must say they are proving remarkably effective here.
But you have a hope settled in what is written
With all due respect, this reminds me of a senario that might have been played out on the Titanic, it goes like this:Two men are hanging on for dear life as the water approaches to swallow them. One of the men says to the other, “Don't doubt! They said this boat is unsinkable! Just believe what has been said about this ship!” The other man answers, “Gulp, gulp…..”, and then silence.
Does merely believing make it true? Does saying the Word of God (the Bible) is truth make it the ruler by which we measure ALL truth? If this is the case, why can it be read by you and then read by Isaiah and you both come out of the reading room with two different truths?
This tells me that the ruler for measurement cannot be trusted.
Hi N3,
Yes faith is a huge risk.
Ready yet?
sigh
I'll have to decline at this time, I'm sure you understand.This kind of faith is not reassuring to anyone. It also provides no set answers. I'm left to assume that those who have this faith in the variable “truth”, have exactly what they want. It's different for everyone.
Hi n3,
If you want to wait till you have dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's
you will never ever be ready.
Such is
the negative power of logic.You can approach truth, but it is impossible to be sure if you have found it. The great failing of all forms of faith comes when the person has decided they have at last landed on the absolute truth. No scientist should ever think that way, and those of faith or none who are sure they have it exactly right are the ones damaging others. Once you can learn to live with uncertainty you have a far better chance of getting much closer to truth, whatever it turns out to be. Perhaps they are not all alike, but the christian fundamentalists I have met have great difficulty accepting that humans are only capable of approximating truth, and that there may not be any sentient being who does possess all absolutes (and in my opinion such a thing is imaginary and pretty practically useless anyway). To live with uncertainty is to make a great leap forward from infallible dogma.
Stuart
Hi Stu,
From the one side of you mouth you say these things and from the other decry in strong terms many things as falsehoods?
??to all Is not your faith built upon Christ Jesus. Are you all born again? If so then why not have faith in Jesus, don't understand that.
seeking and you will find
Welcome saywf,
No
Many here have rather decided to base their faith on their intuition, their observations and logic.
SadlyYou can use intellect, intuition, and observations to help – along with God's spirit most importantly – to strengthen faith. This is very different than using this logic as a foundation.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,09:11) Hi Stu,
From the one side of you mouth you say these things and from the other decry in strong terms many things as falsehoods?
??
Yes, it is possible to disprove things.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 11 2008,10:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,09:11) Hi Stu,
From the one side of you mouth you say these things and from the other decry in strong terms many things as falsehoods?
??
Yes, it is possible to disprove things.Stuart
Emmanuel Kant disagrees.Using his logic, by faith you are believing that your senses are not illusory.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,09:26) Many here have rather decided to base their faith on their intuition, their observations and logic.
But isn't this the topic after all? Where to base one's faith?Nick, you base your faith in the sacred writings of God's Word; the bible. This is the base of your faith. However, you have still not shown me how you can have such committment to a book that does not dole-out “truth” equally. How is it that you read this basis for faith and receive a version of truth, and someone else reads this basis for faith and receives another version of the truth?
That foundation sounds a bit shaky to me. Even more, it sounds like it changes according to who is standing on it. Shaky and shifty are two words you definitely don't want associated with a foundation.
If you want other's to place their faith on the basis which you have placed yours…..in the truth……in the only truth…..the Word of God/the Holy Bible, then you will have to give greater testimony as to why. Or do you not believe that the saying, “Have faith.” is pretty ambiguous? If you don't think so, review some of the pages here from God fearing souls.
Tell me, does Isaiah have faith? I'm sure you'll answer yes. If so, is his foundation as secure as yours? You believe in two different Gods. You both base your faith on the Bible.
The base of our faith should be in God's Word. The bible. Then we will have truth. Yes?
Base – faith – truth.
Isaiah's base is the Word of God, I presume. His faith is in God. He believes the Trinity is true.
Your base is the Word of God, I know. Your faith is in God. You believe that there is no Trinity.
Same base – different outcomes. Seems like a reliable base to me. Not.
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 11 2008,10:41) Yes, it is possible to disprove things. Stuart
It is impossible to disprove God and that He exists. It is possible to prove His existence contrary to what many believe.
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 11 2008,10:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,09:11) Hi Stu,
From the one side of you mouth you say these things and from the other decry in strong terms many things as falsehoods?
??
Yes, it is possible to disprove things.Stuart
Hi Stu,
Till the next lot of evidence arrives at the door?Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 11 2008,11:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,09:26) Many here have rather decided to base their faith on their intuition, their observations and logic.
But isn't this the topic after all? Where to base one's faith?Nick, you base your faith in the sacred writings of God's Word; the bible. This is the base of your faith. However, you have still not shown me how you can have such committment to a book that does not dole-out “truth” equally. How is it that you read this basis for faith and receive a version of truth, and someone else reads this basis for faith and receives another version of the truth?
That foundation sounds a bit shaky to me. Even more, it sounds like it changes according to who is standing on it. Shaky and shifty are two words you definitely don't want associated with a foundation.
If you want other's to place their faith on the basis which you have placed yours…..in the truth……in the only truth…..the Word of God/the Holy Bible, then you will have to give greater testimony as to why. Or do you not believe that the saying, “Have faith.” is pretty ambiguous? If you don't think so, review some of the pages here from God fearing souls.
Tell me, does Isaiah have faith? I'm sure you'll answer yes. If so, is his foundation as secure as yours? You believe in two different Gods. You both base your faith on the Bible.
The base of our faith should be in God's Word. The bible. Then we will have truth. Yes?
Base – faith – truth.
Isaiah's base is the Word of God, I presume. His faith is in God. He believes the Trinity is true.
Your base is the Word of God, I know. Your faith is in God. You believe that there is no Trinity.
Same base – different outcomes. Seems like a reliable base to me. Not.
Hi n3,
So each takes a stand on what they believe is truth.
And build upon it of straw or wood or stone.
The end of that building is the evidence,
after it has been challenged
by storm, fire and rain
is what matters.Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 11 2008,10:43) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 11 2008,10:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2008,09:11) Hi Stu,
From the one side of you mouth you say these things and from the other decry in strong terms many things as falsehoods?
??
Yes, it is possible to disprove things.Stuart
Emmanuel Kant disagrees.Using his logic, by faith you are believing that your senses are not illusory.
When a creationist claims that the fossils do not show that old species have disappered and new ones arisen, he is making an hypothesis based in the empirical realm, which can be disproved empirically. We are trapped in space-time, and therefore disproof is limited by that. I do not make absolutist claims like the religious do. That does not mean you can't disprove.Stuart
Hi Stu,
We have truths more resilient than your transient theories.
We have the word of truth
It cannot be broken.Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 10 2008,18:12) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 10 2008,18:07) I thought you would have known all this stuff Mandy.
Oh, don't mind me – I'm throwing out everything I thought I knew. I'm starting from scratch.Your main point was that truth is a solid definition. That truth is somehow given or guided through the Spirit. But when it comes to deciding who has this “real” truth and who does not, well, it becomes a sticky-wicket, doesn't it? We are forced to speculate that some choose not to be guided…
Hi mandy,
Did I hear a baby screaming.
Poor shivering little fella
Kinda blue.
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