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You would probaby say me while WJ would probably say Nick. Mind you that would be subjective opinion, not objective truth (although one is right).
Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 10 2008,17:40) Truth is relative to culture and a host of other factor's.
Statement: Washington DC is the capital of the USA.Is this statement true because one particular culture affirms it or because it conforms to reality?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 10 2008,18:21) You would probaby say me while WJ would probably say Nick. Mind you that would be subjective opinion, not objective truth (although one is right).
So truth is a guessing game then?It's kinda like being told that you have to pay your mortgage or you will lose your house, but no one tells you how much to pay or where to send the check. There is a right answer that can prevent trouble, but you'll have to guess at it.
I would say truth is more elusive than objective.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 10 2008,18:21) You would probaby say me while WJ would probably say Nick. Mind you that would be subjective opinion, not objective truth (although one is right).
Unless you are both wrong.Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 10 2008,18:47) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 10 2008,18:21) You would probaby say me while WJ would probably say Nick. Mind you that would be subjective opinion, not objective truth (although one is right).
So truth is a guessing game then?It's kinda like being told that you have to pay your mortgage or you will lose your house, but no one tells you how much to pay or where to send the check. There is a right answer that can prevent trouble, but you'll have to guess at it.
I would say truth is more elusive than objective.
In the words of Pontus Pilate:“What is truth?”
I completely understand your position Mandy. In fact, I relate very much to your thoughts.
I continue to search myself.
I will tell you that the only thing I am dogmatic on is the following.
There is a God.
God is Truth.
God is Light.
God is Love.
Jesus taught of this God.
Inside of me is my spirit that came from him.
Inside of me is where the truth can be found. Not necessarily facts and data. But facts about God's nature and how we are to conduct ourselves. I call it my moral compass. I study ancient holy writings and history and science…etc. But none of them replaces the spirit in me.
I don't think that the spirits intent is to give of information about doctrine or any other downloaded information. I think it is about morality and love.
I think most Christians give lip service to being led by the spirit, when in reality they actually mean that they think they are understanding properly the meaning of a written passage in the bible.
I am talking about listening to the spirit that guides you. As I walk down a street to I help that man on the corner begging? The spirit will tell me if I really listen and usually the answer is yes. Should I walk up to a homosexual and tell him faggots go to hell? Abolutely Not! says the spirit. Do you see what I mean?
In the end Mandy remember this one thing and ponder it:
If God really really really does Love you and you really really really are sincerely seeking truth and light then what does the spirit inside you tell you how he will respond to you when you meet him face to face?
I hope you can hear what the spirit inside you says.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 10 2008,17:24) The law of noncontradiction (also called the law of contradiction) states, in the words of Aristotle, that “one cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time”.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_noncontradiction
I say that Jesus is the son of God and you say that he is both the son of God and Almighty God.But he cannot be both. He cannot be the God that he is the son of, otherwise we have a big contradiction according to the law of contradiction.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 10 2008,17:49) Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 10 2008,17:40)
Truth is relative to culture and a host of other factor's.No Mandy. That is not truth, that's opinion.
Hi Mandy,
You are nearly correct. There may in fact be only one truth, but a persons perception of truth is definitely based on culture and a myriad of other things. What they are taught as they grow up, what they read, who they tend to believe and trust all have a bearing on what an individual believes is “truth”.
Tim
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 10 2008,21:13) I say that Jesus is the son of God and you say that he is both the son of God and Almighty God. But he cannot be both. He cannot be the God that he is the son of, otherwise we have a big contradiction according to the law of contradiction.
I'll have to agree with you on this one.
Maybe the foot is not suppose to function like the elbow or even the ankle?
Perhaps WE want to be parts of the body we are not which causes confusion. Certainly No one is the head! And no one ever will be!If you like a certain vocation but because the money is not right for your life style you choose another are you happy? Or maybe just on payday?
Maybe what I want to do and what I should do are to different things? The WORD doesn't give individual instruction as to what they are in the body, that is of the Spirit.
Again the only thing that matters is keeping the commandments of God AND faith in Jesus. Are “WE FIRST” seeking the KINGDOM?
Intellectually speaking even with all the Scholars and study helps
the bible can be made to say different things.1Co 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.
1Co 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body.
1Co 12:16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body.
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell?
1Co 12:18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose.
1Co 12:19 If all were a single member, where would the body be?
1Co 12:20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
1Co 12:21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
1Co 12:22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,
1Co 12:23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty,
1Co 12:24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it,
1Co 12:25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.EVERYONE HERE WANTS TO TEACH, EVERYONE!
I WILL NOT PUSH THE SABBATH ANY LONGER! Perhaps there are things between the HEAD and not the other parts of the body.
LOVE FULFILLS THE COMMANDMENTS! I tell you the TRUTH for me that means Keeping the forth commandment as well as the other nine. But perhaps for you LOVE does not include the Sabbath. I cannot SEE BECAUSE I AM NOT YOU! You do not see why you should keep the Sabbath.
We are each made different. You can't walk on your hands for long!.
1Co 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.
FOR ME GOD is Father and SON in the same SPIRIT. FOR SOME the SPIRIT is a SEPARATE Person. DO all parts of the body operate the same?
What makes us ONE is CHRIST! And NOT what else I believe! ONLY in CHRIST are we one!
If then we are led by the Spirit then we are one in Christ. Not one hand OR foot BUT one in the BODY!
WE must endure to the end.
Mar 13:13 And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
I agree with Mandy about truth as it pertains to faith: truth is totally subjective. It is not like the truth of gravity or the properties of water because there are billions of people running around believing their own version of the truth.
Who is right? Well, unless you can convince someone otherwise, they are. To themselves at least. At the same time, you will think you have truth.
I've given up on such a notion some time back. To tell people I know the truth of God is not based on reality.
Years ago I visited an atheist to tell him about Yeshua. My partner started getting angry about some of the things the atheist was saying but I did not. Why? Because I could tell from his mannerisms and answers that he truly did not believe in God. Certainly not Yeshua! So the atheist, at least in his own heart and mind, felt he had the truth every bit as much as I did.
My boss told me the story of working with a Muslim. The Muslim was a very kind person and very devout in his observances. He asked my boss one day “do you think I am going to hell?” My boss could not look this man in the eye and say yes. He said “here was a man who was much more serious than me in serving his God. How could I tell him he was wrong and headed to hell”.
However, when my boss could not answer, the other man said “You are not being honest. Your religion says that if I do not accept Jesus then I will go to hell. Why do you not stand up for what you believe in?”
There are many religions in the world. Why do Christians think they have a monopoly on the truth? Just because our heart tells us so? What of the Jew whose heart tells him his faith is the true faith? The Hindu? The Muslim? Can we justify telling them they are all wrong and we know the real truth? What basis do we have?
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 11 2008,02:40) I agree with Mandy about truth as it pertains to faith: truth is totally subjective. It is not like the truth of gravity or the properties of water because there are billions of people running around believing their own version of the truth. Who is right? Well, unless you can convince someone otherwise, they are. To themselves at least. At the same time, you will think you have truth.
I've given up on such a notion some time back. To tell people I know the truth of God is not based on reality.
Years ago I visited an atheist to tell him about Yeshua. My partner started getting angry about some of the things the atheist was saying but I did not. Why? Because I could tell from his mannerisms and answers that he truly did not believe in God. Certainly not Yeshua! So the atheist, at least in his own heart and mind, felt he had the truth every bit as much as I did.
My boss told me the story of working with a Muslim. The Muslim was a very kind person and very devout in his observances. He asked my boss one day “do you think I am going to hell?” My boss could not look this man in the eye and say yes. He said “here was a man who was much more serious than me in serving his God. How could I tell him he was wrong and headed to hell”.
However, when my boss could not answer, the other man said “You are not being honest. Your religion says that if I do not accept Jesus then I will go to hell. Why do you not stand up for what you believe in?”
There are many religions in the world. Why do Christians think they have a monopoly on the truth? Just because our heart tells us so? What of the Jew whose heart tells him his faith is the true faith? The Hindu? The Muslim? Can we justify telling them they are all wrong and we know the real truth? What basis do we have?
We have the first born Son of God. However I agree that Tags mean nothing! I know some old friends that would never do what “some Christians” do!If I truly believe that Jesus is God's first born Son who gave Himself for me WHY would I look else where?
You don't believe Jesus IS the Christ? Then you are not part of the body of Christ. Judgment is NOT ours! It is for GOD to judge only HE knows your heart. Only HE knows the future~what you will do~ because only He knows your heart. Of course you can change
your heart, that is your right!Why do we look at others THEN judge GOD?
Ken, what if you had been brought up in a Muslim society? What do you think you'd be saying about Christians, Jews, etc. right now if you had? When were you first exposed to Yeshua? Were you ever exposed to other religions prior to Christianity?
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 11 2008,03:09) Ken, what if you had been brought up in a Muslim society? What do you think you'd be saying about Christians, Jews, etc. right now if you had? When were you first exposed to Yeshua? Were you ever exposed to other religions prior to Christianity?
Keyjonn I can't answer what if. I can only answer what I know and believe. Do I know for sure that Jesus IS the Son of God? YES!How do I know that? He lives in my heart. The natural fleshly response is you believe because that's what you were taught.
As i explained in my testimony that before I was baptized I could not name the Gospels. Oh yes someone told me God and Jesus But I at the time bring catholic did not do any studying at all.
So was it that some one mentioned to me that there was a God and His Son is Jesus that I received the Holy Spirit? NO! and again NO! It was because I opened my heart!
At the time I knew just as much about Rev. Moon as I did about the Son of God. But I'm not a Mooney!
I'm not worried about who Moses was. I'm not worried who Mohammad was. I'm not worried what scholars say. I know who Jesus IS! He IS alive! And lives in my heart. Jesus is not a rumour or just a historical figure. HE LIVES!
All these “theories” floating around is just a sign of the end times. But my foundation is the ROCK! My house won't fall!
What wind of doctrine will knock God's house down?
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 11 2008,02:40) Who is right? Well, unless you can convince someone otherwise, they are. To themselves at least. At the same time, you will think you have truth.
Brother, you have found the bottom line.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 11 2008,02:40) I agree with Mandy about truth as it pertains to faith: truth is totally subjective. It is not like the truth of gravity or the properties of water because there are billions of people running around believing their own version of the truth. Who is right? Well, unless you can convince someone otherwise, they are. To themselves at least. At the same time, you will think you have truth.
I've given up on such a notion some time back. To tell people I know the truth of God is not based on reality.
Years ago I visited an atheist to tell him about Yeshua. My partner started getting angry about some of the things the atheist was saying but I did not. Why? Because I could tell from his mannerisms and answers that he truly did not believe in God. Certainly not Yeshua! So the atheist, at least in his own heart and mind, felt he had the truth every bit as much as I did.
My boss told me the story of working with a Muslim. The Muslim was a very kind person and very devout in his observances. He asked my boss one day “do you think I am going to hell?” My boss could not look this man in the eye and say yes. He said “here was a man who was much more serious than me in serving his God. How could I tell him he was wrong and headed to hell”.
However, when my boss could not answer, the other man said “You are not being honest. Your religion says that if I do not accept Jesus then I will go to hell. Why do you not stand up for what you believe in?”
There are many religions in the world. Why do Christians think they have a monopoly on the truth? Just because our heart tells us so? What of the Jew whose heart tells him his faith is the true faith? The Hindu? The Muslim? Can we justify telling them they are all wrong and we know the real truth? What basis do we have?
Hi KJ,
Democracy gone mad.
We, who are in Christ, do have the truth and it is defined as the Word of God
The one who is truth and who offers us the Spirit of truth as well told us in Jn17.17.
No where does the bible say that all who are not in Jesus go to”hell”?
Our God is a God of mercy to the downtrodden and the merciful.It is my belief that far more will enter the kingdom by His mercy than through the way.
Did Yeshua say he was the way, truth and life, but also say one had to accept him as Lord and Savior? That is what we have been taught, but is there any reality in scripture behind this?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 10 2008,12:32) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 11 2008,02:40) I agree with Mandy about truth as it pertains to faith: truth is totally subjective. It is not like the truth of gravity or the properties of water because there are billions of people running around believing their own version of the truth. Who is right? Well, unless you can convince someone otherwise, they are. To themselves at least. At the same time, you will think you have truth.
I've given up on such a notion some time back. To tell people I know the truth of God is not based on reality.
Years ago I visited an atheist to tell him about Yeshua. My partner started getting angry about some of the things the atheist was saying but I did not. Why? Because I could tell from his mannerisms and answers that he truly did not believe in God. Certainly not Yeshua! So the atheist, at least in his own heart and mind, felt he had the truth every bit as much as I did.
My boss told me the story of working with a Muslim. The Muslim was a very kind person and very devout in his observances. He asked my boss one day “do you think I am going to hell?” My boss could not look this man in the eye and say yes. He said “here was a man who was much more serious than me in serving his God. How could I tell him he was wrong and headed to hell”.
However, when my boss could not answer, the other man said “You are not being honest. Your religion says that if I do not accept Jesus then I will go to hell. Why do you not stand up for what you believe in?”
There are many religions in the world. Why do Christians think they have a monopoly on the truth? Just because our heart tells us so? What of the Jew whose heart tells him his faith is the true faith? The Hindu? The Muslim? Can we justify telling them they are all wrong and we know the real truth? What basis do we have?
Hi KJ,
Democracy gone mad.
We, who are in Christ, do have the truth and it is defined as the Word of God
The one who is truth and who offers us the Spirit of truth as well told us in Jn17.17.
No where does the bible say that all who are not in Jesus go to”hell”?
Our God is a God of mercy to the downtrodden and the merciful.It is my belief that far more will enter the kingdom by His mercy than through the way.
Nick,Aren't what you saying here a reflection of your own truth? In other words, you will say the Bible is the true word of God, while another religion will make the same claim about their texts. So just by you repeating your own personal belief, you have not really given verifiable truth, just what is true to you.
Sorta like Stu's garden fairies — although I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe in any fairies
.
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