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“Rev 3:9 Behold, I give of the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie;
*behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee*”.
Years ago I woke up “quoting” this scripture. I had been serching for the “true church”.
The answer to my question as all questions are found in scripture by the Holy Spirit.
Rev. 3:9 says that God's people will NOT be found to be God's church by “MAIN 'STREAM' CHRISTIANTY”. Why? Because those searching for truth do not follow the Harlot NOR her daughters doctrines.
Jesus will make these Main “Stream” Christians come and worship before the feet of God's people “TO KNOW THAT JESUS LOVED THEM”! The ones who the “Many of the Harlot” say are doomed will be forced to worship before their (the few who have eyes to see) feet!There is no doubt that these deceived Christians believe in Jesus calling themselves Jews, BUT ARE NOT! All Christianty believe that “we” are spiritual Jews. However Jesus says these deceived Chriatians are NOT spiritual Jews but are of the synagogue of Satan, following the Harlot.
All the talk about “the many” Protestant churches that are doing “good” works means nothing to Jesus ( Mat. 7:21-23). The Harlot and her daughters will tell you that you are doomed unless you believe in the Trinity doctrine. But JESUS said He was going to make these “main 'stream' deceived Christians” worship before God's people who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus to SHOW THEM that they chose to be deceived and followed the Harlot (Rev. 12:9).
The many who will be the least in the kingdom of heaven (Matt.5:19) will worship before the FEW who keep God's Commandments and faith in Jesus (Rev. 14:12).
The many say that we who desire the truth and recognize the Harlot and her daughters are false. In the end Jesus will set the many straight by making them worship before “OUR” feet to SHOW the many that Jesus Loved US.
The many may not be humble now but Jesus will make them humble by making them WORSHIP before OUR feet just to show them that they were wrong and that it is the few that Jesus loved!
“Come out of her MY people”
IHN&L,
Ken
Hi Ken,
I've noticed you toss around the harlot a lot and like to tell people to come out of her. How exactly do you know what the harlot is, and who her daughters are? What is your definition?
Tim
Quote (Tim2 @ May 13 2007,15:38) Hi Ken, I've noticed you toss around the harlot a lot and like to tell people to come out of her. How exactly do you know what the harlot is, and who her daughters are? What is your definition?
Tim
She is described in the answer book Tim. The remnant of the church “keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus” Rev 12:17, 14:12.The Harlot changed the Law Dan 7:25.
This is the commandment:
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Either you have ears to hear or you don't! Either you have eyes that see or you don't! The Harlot deceives the WHOLE world. Talk about MANY!
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the WHOLE WORLD: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
That's a lot of Protestants along with their Mother.
It's easy and simple God isn't going to make it hard to understand lest you say “YOU tricked me”!
Man changed the law of GOD! What gave man the right to do so! I gave you scripture. But you must not have read it or as I said you can't see or hear but you're not alone the whole world is on your side 2Cor 4:4.
Rev. 18:4 Tim.
IHN&L,
Ken
Woah, Ken, calm down. I was just asking a question -what is the Harlot? I understand you're very concerned about the Harlot attacking God's people, as you should be, but why don't you try to help me by calmly discussing the matter with me? I'm concerned about the Harlot too, so I'd like to find out who it is. Can we talk about it, please? As in, let's treat this as us learning about the Harlot together from Scripture, asking relevant questions, and not a debate, ok?
First, regarding Daniel 7:25, my Bible says, “he will intend to make alterations in times and in law.” So, first, just me asking, not arguing, I don't see the word “harlot” in Daniel 7. Can you please show me where it says harlot, or why you think this is about the harlot?
Second, I've noticed that harlotry is a big theme in the Bible. It seems to me that harlotry basically refers to God's people going after other gods, as in Ezekiel 23:30, “You have played the harlot with the nations because you have defiled yourself with their idols.” This is expounded upon in Hosea. Would you agree that harlotry consists of worshipping gods besides YHWH?
Now given this, wouldn't you agree that we should look for harlotry where gods besides YHWH are worshipped?
Tim
Tim2
Quote Would you agree that harlotry consists of worshipping gods besides YHWH?
I would, but unfortunately many make of “God” what they want “Him” to be, or have been told this is “Him” without checking it out, then they paste “YHWH” on this “idol” and have a form of Godliness but denying the power there of. And as with what Paul said about his fellow Israelites, many of these have a zeal but lack knowledge. It's my prayer that they will come to know the true God and Father of our Lord Yeshua.True Christianity is not based on following a list of rules and having knowledge from the Bible, but rather having a relationship with the God of scriptures which starts by putting our trust in what He did through His Son.
A harlot is defined as “One who sells one's abilities, talent, or name for an unworthy purpose.”. Many “churches” have made “christianity” a business having long lost the truth from Scripture, if they ever had it.
my opinion
WmQuote (Tim2 @ May 14 2007,14:42) Woah, Ken, calm down. I was just asking a question -what is the Harlot? I understand you're very concerned about the Harlot attacking God's people, as you should be, but why don't you try to help me by calmly discussing the matter with me? I'm concerned about the Harlot too, so I'd like to find out who it is. Can we talk about it, please? As in, let's treat this as us learning about the Harlot together from Scripture, asking relevant questions, and not a debate, ok? First, regarding Daniel 7:25, my Bible says, “he will intend to make alterations in times and in law.” So, first, just me asking, not arguing, I don't see the word “harlot” in Daniel 7. Can you please show me where it says harlot, or why you think this is about the harlot?
Second, I've noticed that harlotry is a big theme in the Bible. It seems to me that harlotry basically refers to God's people going after other gods, as in Ezekiel 23:30, “You have played the harlot with the nations because you have defiled yourself with their idols.” This is expounded upon in Hosea. Would you agree that harlotry consists of worshipping gods besides YHWH?
Now given this, wouldn't you agree that we should look for harlotry where gods besides YHWH are worshipped?
Tim
Hi Tim,
I'm not excited. However as you know I gave you scripture and you were suppose to get back to me. What happened? We were suppose to discuss this month's ago so please don't be offended if I “seem” to be excited.I hope you don't mind but I used part of an email I sent you. The Harlot does the oppsite of the Word. The Pope sits in the temples of God, The temple being Humans, and declares that he is God. How? By changing the Law of God. People keep the Pope's day Sunday rather than God's seventh day Sabbath. What God does one serve when keeping man's day instead of God's day. Did God rest every day? Which day did He rest on and give a command to keep?
The many, many, many people of the Harlot are not God's people. God's people keep the commandments of God rather than the commands and traditions men.Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
The Harlot and her daughter's will come and worship before those who keep the commandment's of God. WHY? So that the people of the Harlot will know that Jesus loves those who do the will of the Father.
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day MANY will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESS.'The very first thing Jesus warned was that MANY would come in His name and say that Jesus is the Chirst and will misslead MANY.
Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray.
Yet most boast about how MANY are in the Harlot's church, as you can see Jesus said that MANY will even perform miricals. But because they do not keep the Commandments ( Lawlessness) He will say He never knew them.
Resurrection day, Sabbath or Sunday?
God's days start at sunset. So the last supper was Tuesday night the beginning of the Passover the end of the Passover was Wed. sunset.
Jesus was crucified on Wednesday afternoon not Friday afternoon. That Wednesday was the Passover. The annual Sabbath the first day of unleavened bread started at sunset Wednesday so the first day of unleavened bread was the first nighttime of the three days and nights Jesus said he would be in the tomb. John 19:31.
That Sabbath started Wednesday night and into Thursday and the following Friday (thru. night) was the preparation day for the Seventh day Sabbath.
Wednesday Nighttime First day of unleavened bread (begins God's Thursday, God's days begins at night)
Thursday nighttime Preparation day before seventh day Sabbath
Friday nighttime Sabbath day
Thursday daytime First day of unleavened bread
Friday daytime Preparation day
Saturday daytime Sabbath dayWednesday Nighttime First day of unleavened bread
Thursday daytime First day of unleavened bread.
Thursday nighttime Preparation day before seventh day Sabbath.
Friday daytime Preparation day
Friday nighttime Sabbath day
Saturday daytime Sabbath day
Saturday night starts God's first day of the week.The scriptures say it all! The Pope changed the law Dan. 7:25. The reason (besides that the church has the power to change the law) was that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday morning. This is a LIE from the son of the father of lies.
Go to the answer book and find where Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. You will only find an empty tomb on Sunday morning!
Tim how can you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
Sunday to God and His children is just another workday. Sunday to the Pope and his children is the sabbath and resurrection day. How does the Pope or his children get three days and nights from Friday to Sunday.
Jesus said this would be the sign that HE is the CHRIST. To deny the savior being three days and three nights in the tomb is to say Jesus is NOT the Christ.Matt. 12:40Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Who has changed the law, the forth commandment? The Roman Universal Church.
What was there reason for changing the Law? They said that one it was to prove that SHE had the power to do so. Two that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday the first day.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
I don't know about you but I don't think any man can bless and sanctify a different day (the first day for the seventh day Sabbath) that God has blessed and sanctified.
Therefore the Pope says he is greater than God changing God's law. People who follow the Pope keep the first day “he sanctified” and not the day God blessed and sanctified.
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
What “Christian” religion has slaughted the saints for not keeping the Pope's “new” sabbath.Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
The Harlot dresses in scarlet as do some of her daughters. A few years back the Harlot was showing off her riches. Perhaps you remember.
What Christian church uses a “golden cup” that is filled with the blood of saints?Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hith
er; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
What religion was and IS in bed with the government of Satan? Ever hear of Constatine? It was with Constatine that the Harlot changed the law of God for the pagan day of the SUN.
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rome is a city that sits on seven hills. However “hills” can be defined as a mountian.G3735
ὄρος
oros
or'-os
Probably a from an obsolete word ὄρω orō (to rise or “rear”; perhaps akin to G142; compare G3733); a mountain (as lifting itself above the plain): – hill, mount (-ain).Keeping every thing in context Vatican city sits on seven hills. What other Christian church has it's own city? That the World, the government of Satan sends ambassadors too. The Harlot is still in bed with Satan!
Did the Roman Universal Church (catholics) change the law of God?
Did they lie about the resurrection day?
Did they worship graven images?
Do they walk around in long robes?
Do they call themselves father?
Do they TELL you how to pray tell you what to say and pray to saints and the “Queen” of heaven Mary?What are the doctrine of the Harlot?
They walk in long robes.
Luk 20:46 Beware of the scribes who desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the first seats in the synagogues, and the chief places at the feasts;They use prayer beads and vain repetitions.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.They call their clergy father.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.Graven images, light candles, believe they turn bread and wine to body and blood of Christ.
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.They changed the law of God.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.They declared Jesus is not the Christ by teaching their false doctrine that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said.
God's people keep the commandments of God.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
If you keep the Harlot's day the first day then you are not keeping God's commandments. If you keep any day besides God's day then you are following the Harlot's doctrine.
Jesus said:
Luk 20:46 Beware of the scribes who desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the first seats in the synagogues, and the chief places at the feasts;What does the Harlot do?
Jesus said:
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.What does the Harlot do?
Jesus said:
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.What does the Harlot do?
Jesus said:
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:What does Harlot do?
Jesus said:
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.What did the Harlot do?
They changed the law of God.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.Why do you follow a church who does the opposite of what your Master says not to do? If one is your Master then you obey, don't you?
Why don't you keep the forth commandment?
REMEMBER to keep the Sabbath day. God's command is to Remember to keep the Sabbath. So the Harlot changed the day of God and many are they that follow her.
God's command is to walk after His Commandments (2John 6) that includes the forth commandment. So why do others keep the day of man rather than the day of GOD?
If I keep the Sabbath do I sin? If I don't keep the Sabbath do I sin?
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
If you need more scriptures please go to the Ten Commandment thread where there are pages of scriptures that says God's children keep ALL of God's commandments and not the Harlot's command of keeping another day.
Ignorance won't be an excuse.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:God's word does not return void.
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
His word says over and over to keep His Commandments.
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; THIS IS THE COMMANDMENT, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
IHN&L,
Ken
Quote (seekingtruth @ May 14 2007,21:47) Tim2 Quote Would you agree that harlotry consists of worshipping gods besides YHWH?
I would, but unfortunately many make of “God” what they want “Him” to be, or have been told this is “Him” without checking it out, then they paste “YHWH” on this “idol” and have a form of Godliness but denying the power there of. And as with what Paul said about his fellow Israelites, many of these have a zeal but lack knowledge. It's my prayer that they will come to know the true God and Father of our Lord Yeshua.True Christianity is not based on following a list of rules and having knowledge from the Bible, but rather having a relationship with the God of scriptures which starts by putting our trust in what He did through His Son.
A harlot is defined as “One who sells one's abilities, talent, or name for an unworthy purpose.”. Many “churches” have made “christianity” a business having long lost the truth from Scripture, if they ever had it.
my opinion
Wm
Are we to ignore God's word to do our own will
If God gives a command are we to follow the traditions of men OR the commandment of God?
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
I do His Commandment the best I can which is all He asks. But don't think I should ingore God's cammandment.
BTW This is NOT MY opinion. It is God's word.
IHN&L,
Ken
Hey Ken,
I do remember the email you sent me now, forgive me for forgetting. Um, but I still don't see anywhere that explicitly says the harlot is the one who changes God's law. I do see the ungodly man in Daniel 7:25 doing this, but I still don't see why this is necessarily the harlot. You do raise many valid criticisms of the Roman Catholic Church, but I don't know that this makes them the harlot. The most explicit evidence is the clothing of the harlot, the killing of saints, and the seven Roman hills. The rest is you putting the word harlot after other verses.
I am considering the sabbath issue, please discuss it more with me. It seems to me in Luke 24 that the two travellers travelled more than a Sabbath day's journey on the day of the resurrection, how do you account for this?
Also, even if the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot, how do you decide which doctrines/practices to accept, and which to reject? How do you decide that the protestant breakaways didn't reject enough?
Finally, don't you agree that the main meaning of harlot in the Bible is going after other gods? If so, where do we see this today? I would say, not in Trinitarianism.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
Do you really think your proposed trinity God is the God of the bible?
It seems unlikely since that God never appears there.
I think it is probably a new god.Tim it's hard to see the truth if you are looking through the Harlot's eyes.
Who changed the Seventh day Sabbath Commandment to the first day of the week? When one decides to keep the Harlot's day instead of God's day who is he following? Who is his God? Certainly not the God of the bible but the god of this world who changed the Commandment to the first day.If you keep the first day then you belong to those who's doctrine it is, and that is not the God who rested, blessed and sanctified the Seventh Day.
None of the scriptures in Rev.17 point to the Catholic church?
The colors of her. The fact that she uses a golden cup filled with the blood of the saints. The fact that she has daughters (that's what the new Pope ACTUALLY said) that also keep her doctrine of the “new” sabbath.
The fact that she does exactly what Jesus said NOT to do!
“Um, but I still don't see anywhere that explicitly says the harlot is the one who changes God's law”.
Are you kidding? Who else would change the law of God? Who else would choose the commandment that says God is the creator. If you keep the day God rested on and commanded to keep then you are saying that Jehovah IS your God. If you keep the “new” sabbath (Sunday) that the Pope has said to keep then who is your god?
“The rest is you putting the word harlot after other verses”.
You don't see that the Roman Universal Church fits the Harlot the only Christian church that sits on seven hills/mountians, Has the Harlot's colors uses a golden cup, had graven images,
calls themselves father their leader is called the “MOST HOLY FATHER” when Jesus said we have only one Father in heaven and not to call anyone on earth your spiritual Father.The Catholic church has done everythig but call itself the Harlot!
“I am considering the sabbath issue, please discuss it more with me. It seems to me in Luke 24 that the two travellers travelled more than a Sabbath day's journey on the day of the resurrection, how do you account for this”?
Jesus did not do away with the Commandments of God but made them spiritual.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.The apostles picked corn on the Sabbath day. They broke the law written on stone but kept the law written on their heart the spiritual commandment of Jesus Mat 12:1.
The Sabbath was made for MAN (not just Jews) and not man for the Sabbath.
God is a Spirit worship Him in Spirit and truth. The truth is His Word. His Word says to keep His Commandments. Now if you keep any day but the seventh day then you are not keeping His Word. Breaking the forth commandment.
Many ask how do you keep the Sabbath? Well I don't build a fire
Just kidding
Worship any enjoy yourself fellowshiping with the Father. Not that you don't worship God everyday But just as most keep the Pope's day we should keep God's day.If you force yourself to keep the forth commandment then the Sabbath will NOT be a blessing. Jehovah wants compassion NOT sacrifice.
The Harlot changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Then they say that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. Both are lies!
“Also, even if the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot, how do you decide which doctrines/practices to accept, and which to reject? How do you decide that the protestant breakaways didn't reject enough”?
The Harlot simply goes against the Christ. Her doctrines go against what Jesus said not to do.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Why does the Catholic church do the opposite of what Jesus said not too?
Again the Roman Universal Church does the OPPPSITE of Jesus.The Trinity is a doctrine of the Harlot. Just as keeping Sunday instead of God's seventh day is a false doctrine.
The bible says God is a Spirit. Worship Him in Spirit and His Word, the truth.
If you follow these simple “rules” then the truth becomes clear IF you are ready for that truth. Some are not ready for meat but enjoy their milk and refuse the meat. Holding to their traditions of men rather than the true Word of God.Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
The doctrine of the Catholic church says that the first day is the sabbath. What does God say?
Is Sunday a doctrine and commandment of men?
“Finally, don't you agree that the main meaning of harlot in the Bible is going after other gods? If so, where do we see this today? I would say, not in Trinitarianism”.
Christians are decieved by the Harlot. Satan deceives the WHOLE world (Rev 12:9). Her doctrines are in the temples of God the deceived Christian. Only the Pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ,the MOST Holy Father.
Again, the Catholic church does the oppsite of what Jesus said NOT to do. The Catholic's have the bible WHY do they go against Christ as I pointed out. Why did they create graven images. For centuries the Catholic church did not offer the blood of Christ for the forgivness of sin! What Chrisitian church refues the forgivness of sin? Only the Harlot would do that! The Trinity has it's orgin in paganism just as Sunday, is a pagan worship day of the Sun.IHN&L
Ken
Ken,
You raise many good points, and many valid criticisms of the Roman Catholic Church. I am not sure that the RCC is the Harlot. The seven hills are interesting, but, how do we know this isn't just referring to the Roman Empire? And we know the RCC does many good things, such as proclaiming Christ as Lord and teaching the 10 Commandments (except, I guess you believe, the Sabbath).
It seems that for you the critical issue is the Sabbath. If protestant denominations worship on Sunday, then you believe they are daughters of the Harlot. I've never really questioned why God would change His day from the 7th to the 1st, but you raise many good questions about this. I can't imagine how God would let His church worship on the wrong day for so many centuries, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. I need to look into this more. Do you know any good books or websites about this?
Tim
Quote (Tim2 @ May 17 2007,18:03) Ken, You raise many good points, and many valid criticisms of the Roman Catholic Church. I am not sure that the RCC is the Harlot. The seven hills are interesting, but, how do we know this isn't just referring to the Roman Empire? And we know the RCC does many good things, such as proclaiming Christ as Lord and teaching the 10 Commandments (except, I guess you believe, the Sabbath).
It seems that for you the critical issue is the Sabbath. If protestant denominations worship on Sunday, then you believe they are daughters of the Harlot. I've never really questioned why God would change His day from the 7th to the 1st, but you raise many good questions about this. I can't imagine how God would let His church worship on the wrong day for so many centuries, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. I need to look into this more. Do you know any good books or websites about this?
Tim
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
SEEK and you will find. The truth is NOT handed to you. You must seek using the Word and the Spirit of God who guides us to all truth.
Like fruit on a tree if picked too soon it will be wasted. The Holy Spirit reveals truth when we are ready for that truth.
As long as some are wrapped up in their pride they will never know the truth but believe a lie that God Has Sent.
Who else would change the law of God but Satan! Revelation 17 says that the Harlot rides on a beast Rome.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.Who was it that crucified Christ? Religion and the Government of Satan, Rome. Who was it that changed the law of God? Rome (Constantine) and the the Church of Rome, The Roman Universal (catholic) Church.
You don't need “other books” to get the truth you need the Spirit and the word. Worship God in Spirit and truth, thy WORD is truth. Where does it say worship God in Spirit and other books that man has written? You have the answer book the bible but you must be guided by it's author the Holy Spirit.
“WE” (that includes me) want to know everything NOW! But the Holy Spirit will not show you the truth until you are ready. That's why I have a back burner LOL!2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
From the beginning we are commanded to walk after the commandments of God NOT the Pope.
Would it be any different if you were stealing and I pointed out that you were breaking the eighth commandment of God.
Satan knows that we are not stupid enough to deliberately BREAK a commandment so he changed one. Which one would you change if you were Satan? Would you say worship other gods? Make graven mages? Go ahead commit adultery! Don't honor your father and mother. Be a false witness. Lust after your neighbour's goods and whatever else your neighbour might have. Satan could not change the other nine commandments and deceive anyone! So he changed the forth commandment the commandment that we are commanded to REMEMBER! God's Day!
Again, do I sin if I keep the Sabbath?
Do I sin if I don't keep the Sabbath?Sin is trangression of the law of God. So how would you answer the above questions?
The world is geared to keep Sunday, that in itself should tell you something. When you keep God's day you are telling the world that Jehovah is your God. So what's wrong with that?
Jehovah is my God and I keep HIS day rather than the Harlot's day.IHN&L,
Ken
Ken, I've looked into this some since our chats. I am amazed at how much truth you are offering here. It's the stuff that you don't normally think about – unfortunately. I've been praying about the Sabbath and the Law that is meant for all of God's people. It's interesting how we look at the break in the books (OT and the NT) and I know that I have been guilty of just assuming that Jesus brought grace and it ends there.
I know that God's Law is written in my heart – in everyone's heart now. Even the Gentiles who were not given the Law have it written in their hearts. However, honoring God with recognition of his Law by keeping his Holy Day is a very good start to a closer relationship with our glorious Creator.
Just thought that I would add this.
The harlot rides on the back of the beast.
If Rome is the beast (kingdom), and we know that it was Rome that forged the new religion from the bible through Constantine, then it is not hard to understand how that harlot rides on the back of the beast.
This particular faith eventually became known as the Roman Catholic faith. This faith is based on the The Athanasian Creed of which Athanasius and Constantine were instrumental in creating.
Although these 2 men may not have penned that creed, this creed is certainly based on their works and traditions.
So it was Rome herself that got this religion going. It is interesting to note that men dressed in purple drink from golden cups in this religion which is very descriptive.
Revelation 17:4
The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.Revelation 18:16
and cry out: ” 'Woe! Woe, O great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!And she made the whole world drunk on her wine. Who can deny the influence of the Roman Catholic faith. Her foundation is even the same foundation of most protestant religions. Now we are talking about billions of people from all corners of the globe.
The message for those caught under her influence is to come out of her.
Quote (t8 @ May 18 2007,16:14) Just thought that I would add this. The harlot rides on the back of the beast.
If Rome is the beast (kingdom), and we know that it was Rome that forged the new religion from the bible through Constantine, then it is not hard to understand how that harlot rides on the back of the beast.
This particular faith eventually became known as the Roman Catholic faith. This faith is based on the The Athanasian Creed of which Athanasius and Constantine were instrumental in creating.
Although these 2 men may not have penned that creed, this creed is certainly based on their works and traditions.
So it was Rome herself that got this religion going. It is interesting to note that men dressed in purple drink from golden cups in this religion which is very descriptive.
Revelation 17:4
The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.Revelation 18:16
and cry out: ” 'Woe! Woe, O great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!And she made the whole world drunk on her wine. Who can deny the influence of the Roman Catholic faith. Her foundation is even the same foundation of most protestant religions. Now we are talking about billions of people from all corners of the globe.
The message for those caught under her influence is to come out of her.
All true t8. So the call goes out “come out of her 'MY' people”. Their is nothing complex and hard to understand it's either God's day or the Harlot's day. If you keep the Sabbath day then you are saying Jehovah is your God. If you keep the Harlot's day then you deny Jehovah as being the creator and your God.No one will have an excuse. Everyone will understand and will make a choice God or Satan. Will God reject you for keeping HIS day and commandment?
No one will be saved because of the works they do, not even keeping the commandments. I believe all are adult christians on this forum and understand they must accept Jesus as Lord. But Jesus our Lord said that those who do not keep the law of God He will declare “HE NEVER KNEW THEM”.
Again if you keep the Harlot's day then you reject Jehovah as being God and creator.
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
Keep the Sabbath Seventh Day of God and everyone will see your fruit that Jehovah is your God.
Jesus said that even if you say that HE is your Lord and do not the will of the Father will not enter the kingdom of heaven.What is the Father's will?
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.Those who do not walk according to the Commandments, which are not burdensome (1 John 5:3) are workers of lawlwssness no matter how many miracles they do they deny Jehovah by not doing HIS will.
PLEASE Come out of her MY people!
IHN&L,
Ken
Do you think ones tend to keep away from Sabbath, because they think it must be performed as the Jewish do ?
Is not the Sabbath, shadows of things to come. Completing our work in six days, and resting on the seventh.
As Christ completed YAH's work, so we may rest in eternity. We are preparing ourselves for the ultimate rest, w/ HIM.
Just a thought.
Blessings and love
As Christ completed YAH's work, so we may rest in eternity. We are preparing ourselves for the ultimate rest, w/ HIM
***************Good thoughts, Olive.
I hope we are not resting too long – I've never been one for naps! I tend to think we will be busy about Paradise (doing what, I'm not sure).
Mainstream Christianity……………..there is no safety in numbers.
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