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question: the bible says that humans are to not practice any sort of magic, correct? does it define what magic is? from what we can explain, wouldn’t it seem as though the making of earth and of humankind is an act of magic? isn’t prayer magic? isn’t god magic?
how can we go throughout our lives believing that magic is evil when obviously the fact that we are here and alive is infact "magic". now i assume that the term magic in the bible means to practice witchcraft of somesort? if so, then isnt this a bit of a misuse of the term? how can a religion that is based on magic deny magic? … any ideas?I think when it talks about magic, it is not talking about all things we do not understand, but rather things that are designed to deceive us, because deception in any form is a lie.
I know this isn´t a complete answer by any means, but I will look into this further, and add to this post if I am shown anything on this subject.First, God is not ‘magic.’ Magic is generally a term applied to unexplaneable, spurematural events. Of course, just because an event is labeled ‘supernatural’ does not make it an act of god, rather the prefix ‘super-‘ denotes that it is not normal occurence.
Generally, in history, the practice of ‘magic’ as such is generally applied to divining (commonly called fortune telling). Also, ‘magic’ or ‘black magic’ is a label applied to events affected or effected by deonic intervention. Yes, demons/devils/hellspawn/whatever-label-you-care-to-apply do exist. There are some people who have opened themselves to possession by demons by placing themselves far from God. Demons seem to usually be invisible to humans, just as angels are. In fact, in all of the recorded instances of demon possession in the Bible, there is not recorded physical sighting of the demon, just the manifestation of madness in the possessed person. Demons may be invisible, but is ver clear that they can act on physical matter. Therefore, things that may be ‘magic’ usually boil down to two catergories, that is 1) an illusion performed by a master illusionist, or 2) an act of some supernatural variety performed by one who associates with demonic powers.
Now, note that in the Scriptures, Christ’s miracles (casting out of demons in particular) was labeled as a demonic act, but Christ’s withering retorts lay that fallacy to rest. In general, in the Bible, when a miracle is performed it is usually preceeded by some calling on God, but when ‘magic’ is performed, note the usual use of the occult symbol penta- or hexa-gram (depends on which particular cult, I’m not sure of the actual distinciton).
I hope you find this a helpful explanation. If any one can say it better, please do, sometimes I ramble or use words or syntax that may not be clear to some people.well there iss vixen i understand exactly where you are coming from. for some reason sometimes it is very hard to explain in our days because we have lost touch with everything spiritual an divine. many of these things have been corrupted by that abomination the catholic church. they consider themselves the vicars of christ the actuall embodimnt of christ a horrible and wrong way to denote the holy prophet jesus.now the only thing i can say to you right now is an excellent book right now is called the da vinci code very very exciting book. though it is mainly fictious everything in the book such as items symbology and most of the ideas based in the book are very real. it even says this in the beggining of the book.another excellent book to read is called the the magicians handbook, now this isnt a book about being a magician it is mainly based on all the symbology that ha been used in all forms of religion since the begginig of time and is very interesting. and one finall last book thats is very enticing is called teh other bible which is a book with something called the apocrypha and gnostic writings and the kabalistic writings and many other books that have been left out of the bible it is lso very intriguing. well thats about all i reall have to say to help you out for now so all i ca say is hatbefore you can judge a religion a smart person would be wise to study the religions hstoryjust ot find out the truth about it.
The Bible does say that sorcery, divination, and casting spells are detestable to God. What is interesting is the Kabbalah. This sort of esoteric practice may have started out holy (used only by the priests to commune in the presence of God), but has denegrated to a state where it is now chic to practice it. You find much of it assoctiated with tarot cards and the like which can often set it off as evil. I guess it’s up to the practicioner to decide what is or isn’t evil; although I would rather be safe than sorry
Hi ,
There is some pretty strong magic out there pretending to be the power of God and deceiving the ignorant.
Ex 7and 8.
Moses and Aaron struck the water with the staff and fouled it killing all the fish. So did the magicians[7v22].Moses And Aaron stretched out the staff over the water and brought up a plague of frogs. So did the magicians[8.7]
The magicians were not able to turn dust into gnats and even they conceded that
“This is the finger of God”LIKEWISE AT THE END OF TIME THE FALSE PROPHET WILL PERFORM GREAT SIGNS DECEIVING THE PEOPLE OF THE EARTH
[Rev 13.13]Miss/Mrs Vixen,
It occurs to me that magic, as practiced in the bible, refers to the divination of other lesser gods. In fact one of the first things God says is, 'thou shall not have any gods before me'. I always found that interesting. God does not say, 'I am the only God', he does say however, 'I am the one true god'. The practicing of magic therefore would seem to me to imply an act that takes the focus of a religious ceremony away from God and places another diety in the spot light. The ancients were apparently semi successful at the drawing of power from magic, how else would the pharo's magicians or 'priests' be able to mimic any of Moses's wonders? Their power wained however, when God drove them out. In my opinion, in practice today magic can only hope to catch an echo of this ancient bond between heathen pagans and their false gods. In a darker situation it would be the paganistic worship of 'modern' lesser gods, such as Satan and or any other of the fallen angels of the rebellion. Certainly these fallen angels have the ability to exert a certain influence over the natural world, of which they are one of the highest order of creation.
The question for practioners of black magic or even wicca for that matter, has to be; To what end do I seek the help of any god or 'force' other than the one true god? Does not the holy trinity provide the answers' even if they are not the answers I want to hear?
Ours is not to dictate the truth of God to satisfy our own needs, we are to hear and follow with out question as well as we are humanly able to do. If we falter we must look to God for forgiveness and start anew. We cannot shirk his word for the comfort of a voice in the wild that whispers what we want to believe about ourselves. I have a quote from one of my favorite adventure stories that seems appropriate here,”…short cuts, lead to long delays…” Good luck Vixen!I assumed that the nature of magic is to try to affect your environment in a supernatural way. I guess that would mean fortune telling and spell casting. We are told to pray without ceasing, to ask of our Father like the woman tormenting the judge and the child asking for food. But these are both dependent upon the will of God, who wants to be generous with us. To try to conjure up what tomorrow would bring, to me, would be the equivalent of not trusting in Him, right? Of trying to obtain knowledge and power that was promised first in the Garden.
I think about the woman who touched Christ's robe and received a healing without His direct participation. I think of the pool the the angel would stir and the ill would rush into for a healing. There must be more than enough opportunities for us receive what we are seeking without trying to be in control.
Stan: about the 'other gods'. I always thought that meant 'god figures' such as any human created deity, goal or object that was elevated to the position that the Lord had placed for Himself. I guess I never gave thought that there were truly other gods.
hi SF,
Good stuff. The situation about other gods depends on your point of view.From the point of view of The Father there are no other gods.Any suggestion that any created being approaches the creator in status or power is a joke. Nothing existed till creation so how could it compare?
From man's point of view there are many beings greater than natural man and man often seeks assistance foolishly. There is other occult power which Satan uses to seduce the ignorant[Rev 13.13f]
Yes control is the issue but faith is trust without control.[ps 123,131,Heb 11.1,Gal 5.25]
Men pray to;
Angels Coll 2.18
Demons 1Cor 10.20
Wood and other artefacts Is 40.18fApart from that God regards excessive interest in food, sex etc as idolatry too.
Gal 4.8f
Yeshua is the highest being under God in every way and has divine nature.
also see 1Cor 8.5 and Jn 10 33fwhen it say magic in the bible its talk about calling Demons and witch craft not shuffleing playing cards ……….
Yes, I don't think this has been mentioned.
When you look in a large book store, you will find the word “majick” or “majik” or “majic” in a section that encompasses divination, astrology, wicca, other religions, and there will be a section of Bibles near by.
This will be a large section.In a completely separate place, you will find a few “magic” books that teach sleight of hand next to books on juggling and games.
There is a grand differentiantion between the two.
One definition of “magic”: human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature.
Jesus had access to the supernatural through the Father. The Father worked through Jesus, but I'm not so sure we could stretch that to say Jesus had “control” of these God-given powers.
Sorry Kejonn, but I think it's a bit far-fetched to say that Jesus used a “type” of magic. It's certainly not a good idea to compare Harry Potter to Jesus Christ. One man is ficticious while the other man brought you to the living God (or are you willing to say that a ficticious character brought you to God, since Jesus can not be proven?) Bro, you are on a slippery-slope I'm afraid.
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 02 2008,00:40) One definition of “magic”: human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature. Jesus had access to the supernatural through the Father. The Father worked through Jesus, but I'm not so sure we could stretch that to say Jesus had “control” of these God-given powers.
Sorry Kejonn, but I think it's a bit far-fetched to say that Jesus used a “type” of magic. It's certainly not a good idea to compare Harry Potter to Jesus Christ. One man is ficticious while the other man brought you to the living God (or are you willing to say that a ficticious character brought you to God, since Jesus can not be proven?) Bro, you are on a slippery-slope I'm afraid.
No slippery slope. I believe in the historical Jesus. Why does someone have to have miracles put on top of his life to prove anything?As the legend of Jesus grew, people likely continued to isert such in his life to keep the interest alive. Heres one for you: name the miracles that Paul mentioned.
Hi KJ,
So God did not anoint Jesus with the Holy Spirit and power?
What about Elisha-did he raise someone from the dead?
Peter too with Tabitha?Or was it all party tricks as your mentor said?
Who is to say Nick? As time goes by, more and more are revealing that the bible is better to be taken as metaphor and not literally. They are doing so by showing that many of the events of the bible did not happen as the bible says they did. It is full of legends and stories that may have a basis of truth, but full of embellishments.
Think of a movie you might see where the opening says “Based on a true story”. Then you find out many of the things in the movie never happened but were added to keep people interested.
Had such miracles not been put in certain stories, would ancient men — who were very superstitious — have thought any of it was of God? No, mere words are not enough.
Where are all of the miracles of biblical proportions now Nick?
I think you fail to realize that even if the “miracles” of the bible were true, they were some natural phenomena that were described in a way to appear supernatural. After all, people were amazed when “Pong” came out as a computer game. Today, its a laughable joke.
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 02 2008,00:40) One definition of “magic”: human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature. Jesus had access to the supernatural through the Father. The Father worked through Jesus, but I'm not so sure we could stretch that to say Jesus had “control” of these God-given powers.
Sorry Kejonn, but I think it's a bit far-fetched to say that Jesus used a “type” of magic. It's certainly not a good idea to compare Harry Potter to Jesus Christ. One man is ficticious while the other man brought you to the living God (or are you willing to say that a ficticious character brought you to God, since Jesus can not be proven?) Bro, you are on a slippery-slope I'm afraid.
Here's a question for you Mandy: had Jesus really worked the powers he was supposed to have, don't you think he would have caught the attention of at least one notable person who would have recorded at least a rumor of him during the time? After all, the bible says he came before both Pilate and Herod, both prominent men.But if he did the other things: preached, taught, and got mad at people in the temple, would he catch the attention of such historians? No.
That being said, it is odd that the the people who wrote of his life were mostly anonymous. The only person who are certain wrote about him was Paul, and he doesn't mention the miracles Jesus did. All Paul was about was the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Finally, ponder this: why was Paul, a man who never walked with Jesus, the first to write about him? Could it be that the gospels, which were written after Paul, could have been a response to the religion that Paul had started?
It is normal for humans to try and control their world, when it is under the aegis of Christianity through prayer or under science using chemisty, physics, or whatever we see it as only natural. When it is called magic, suddenly we look at it differently, though by definition prayer to God would be very similar to magic as we are asking a spiritual entity to effect our reality for our benefit. I would imagine if magic had any basis in reality it would be morally neutral like science is, and good or evil would be found in its application, intent and results rather then the fact that the means involved would be termed supernatural. Stuart would assert that there is no supernatural so the point is mute, others who believe in such, view it as a bipolar, God and evil, so if it is not directly to what they see as God it must be opposed to same. Personally I feel that if there are supernatural energies that man through various means may be able to access it would be neutral like dealing with any type of energy. Prohibitions may stem from the fact that dealing in any source of power be it electrical, nuclear, etc., an untrained or unscrupulous user has great potential to harm himself or others.
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