Losing Faith

[Stu]

It's a longish read, but touches on many issues discussed here recently:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/rss….&page=1

Stuart

[Not3in1]

Along these lines, another good read, and one of my favorite books this last year is, Leaving Church by Margaret Brown. She was a priest who eventually lost her “faith” in the church but remained a believer. She found other ways to express her spiritual-self. It's one of my favorites. I've read it twice. Both times with tears running down my face…..because I found myself in her feelings and discoveries.

[Not3in1]

It's no secret that I have been losing faith over the past 6 months. My posts reflect this change so dramatically. I know because I have gone back and read some posts from “before” my turn. I was trying to pin-point why the change took place. Ironically, the change began as I studied harder, as I dug deeper into the scriptures (mainly the OT). As I looked at the discrepencies, while hearing Nick point out that I should be focusing on the promises rather than the faults.

I tried to listen to him. Knowing that he was where I had come from – a dedicated servant no matter what. Perhaps it is easier to serve when you have blinders on. I know it is easier to lead horses when they have these blinders on their eyes. They are not distracted by things they can see out of the corner of their eyes.

But I took my blinders off anyway, against caution, against the kindest advice. I took them off because I wanted to find the truth.

The only thing I have found is that the bible cannot completely be true. It's words cannot completely be trusted. Dedicated servants do not see it, or they do not want to see it. When they do see it, they ignore it. This has left me confused. And I wonder who has more “truth” – the one who leaves the blinders on, or the one who takes them off?

Nevertheless, when I worship God, I still feel the presence of peace rushing over me. I even tingle sometimes from head to toe (some call this the annointing of the holy Spirit of God). I don't know what I call it, but it's still with me. With me through this searching. With me through losing faith. And I'm grateful.

[Stu]

Quote

Nevertheless, when I worship God, I still feel the presence of peace rushing over me. I even tingle sometimes from head to toe (some call this the annointing of the holy Spirit of God). I don't know what I call it, but it's still with me. With me through this searching. With me through losing faith. And I'm grateful.

See what happens with the blinkers off? You are able to describe things that the blinkered cannot bring themselves to describe.

Stuart

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 04 2008,19:36)

It's no secret that I have been losing faith over the past 6 months.  My posts reflect this change so dramatically.  I know because I have gone back and read some posts from “before” my turn.  I was trying to pin-point why the change took place.  Ironically, the change began as I studied harder, as I dug deeper into the scriptures (mainly the OT).  As I looked at the discrepencies, while hearing Nick point out that I should be focusing on the promises rather than the faults. I tried to listen to him.  Knowing that he was where I had come from – a dedicated servant no matter what.  Perhaps it is easier to serve when you have blinders on.  I know it is easier to lead horses when they have these blinders on their eyes.  They are not distracted by things they can see out of the corner of their eyes. But I took my blinders off anyway, against caution, against the kindest advice.  I took them off because I wanted to find the truth. The only thing I have found is that the bible cannot completely be true.  It's words cannot completely be trusted.  Dedicated servants do not see it, or they do not want to see it.  When they do see it, they ignore it.  This has left me confused.  And I wonder who has more “truth” – the one who leaves the blinders on, or the one who takes them off? Nevertheless, when I worship God, I still feel the presence of peace rushing over me.  I even tingle sometimes from head to toe (some call this the annointing of the holy Spirit of God).  I don't know what I call it, but it's still with me.  With me through this searching.  With me through losing faith.  And I'm grateful.

Hi not3,

Faith is a profound belief or trust in a particular truth.
You have not lost faith, you still believe in God with all your heart. Your particular truth merely does not align with that of some others.

Tim

[lineon]

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 04 2008,09:36)

It's no secret that I have been losing faith over the past 6 months.  My posts reflect this change so dramatically.  I know because I have gone back and read some posts from “before” my turn.  I was trying to pin-point why the change took place.  Ironically, the change began as I studied harder, as I dug deeper into the scriptures (mainly the OT).  As I looked at the discrepencies, while hearing Nick point out that I should be focusing on the promises rather than the faults. I tried to listen to him.  Knowing that he was where I had come from – a dedicated servant no matter what.  Perhaps it is easier to serve when you have blinders on.  I know it is easier to lead horses when they have these blinders on their eyes.  They are not distracted by things they can see out of the corner of their eyes. But I took my blinders off anyway, against caution, against the kindest advice.  I took them off because I wanted to find the truth. The only thing I have found is that the bible cannot completely be true.  It's words cannot completely be trusted.  Dedicated servants do not see it, or they do not want to see it.  When they do see it, they ignore it.  This has left me confused.  And I wonder who has more “truth” – the one who leaves the blinders on, or the one who takes them off? Nevertheless, when I worship God, I still feel the presence of peace rushing over me.  I even tingle sometimes from head to toe (some call this the annointing of the holy Spirit of God).  I don't know what I call it, but it's still with me.  With me through this searching.  With me through losing faith.  And I'm grateful.

Hi not3in1

It is not for me to tell how to think
But I can offer you sign posts
I don't think you ever had blinkers on
I think a new phase is starting in your belief
To sort this phase out will take weeks or years
You must sort it out don't let it hang.

At the end of your writtings
You say 'I still feel the presence of peace rushing over me.
I even tingle sometimes from head to toe……………….'
To me this shows that you still have
The faith that God has given you.

Like I said I think a new phase is showing it's head.

Lineon

[Not3in1]

Thanks guys.

Orthodox believers would not say that what I am going through is positive in any way.  They would say things like, “She is back sliding.”  Or worse, “She is losing her salvation.”.  I have dealt heavily with the fear of non-conforming.  I have struggled to not put 100% belief in the “truth” revealed in the bible.  It's the way I was raised.  It's how Nick, WJ, 94, Isaiah and other's encourage me to go…..

I cannot go……

I have asked God to never leave me, he has assured me he will not.  Even though I do not even know what God's name is, or how he exists, or if he has a prophet/son who came to “save' me, he assures me that I am his.  I am his creation.  This world, even though they do not understand him, will know someday all that is missing from our knowledge now.  And mainly, that there are many ways to reach God.  There are many ways to know him.  Nick has said this is from the enemy and it's a “popluar doctrine”, but I'm beginning to realize that that is part of the glue that keeps me stuck in fear – not safe in God's care.

It's been hard to break free.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Stu @ May 04 2008,20:51)

Quote Nevertheless, when I worship God, I still feel the presence of peace rushing over me.  I even tingle sometimes from head to toe (some call this the annointing of the holy Spirit of God).  I don't know what I call it, but it's still with me.  With me through this searching.  With me through losing faith.  And I'm grateful. See what happens with the blinkers off?  You are able to describe things that the blinkered cannot bring themselves to describe. Stuart

There certainly is a new sense of freedom. I'm grateful for that, too.

[charity]

sista
When the words that have molded our world
“Come to an end”
The unsaid begins to alter our future

God speed your Love to us

charity

[Cato]

Mandy,

“The only real prison is fear, and the only real freedom is freedom from fear. “
Aung San Suu Kyi

The greatest shackles that revealed religions have created is the concept of hell, it takes great courage and insight to overcome this ingrained fear implanted from our childhood.  Believe as you are told or your fate is hell, it takes tremendous courage to overcome the fear and nagging doubt concerning same.  Thus the final plea is, as you stated, you are losing your salvation, beware the gates of hell beckon!  Yet when we overcome such, the chains are gone and we can believe and have faith based on reason and love and not fear and dogma.  You should celebrate, spiritual independence day! You will find you are not alone, if you like a group worship setting I am sure you will find one that fits your changing views.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Cato @ May 05 2008,23:33)

You should celebrate, spiritual independence day!

Oh, my goodness!

I'm going to totally do this! Totally.

Thanks, Cato

By the way, do you attend a church?

[Not3in1]

Colter,

Awesome read! Thanks so much for posting this. I agree with so much of it. I'd like to read the whole letter.

Thanks again,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Quote

To science God is a possibility, to psychology a desirability, to philosophy a probability, to religion a certainty, an actuality of religious experience. Reason demands that a philosophy which cannot find the God of probability should be very respectful of that religious faith which can and does find the God of certitude. Neither should science discount religious experience on grounds of credulity, not so long as it persists in the assumption that man's intellectual and philosophic endowments emerged from increasingly lesser intelligences the further back they go, finally taking origin in primitive life which was utterly devoid of all thinking and feeling.

Stu,
What do you think of this?

[Cato]

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 06 2008,10:38)

Quote (Cato @ May 05 2008,23:33) You should celebrate, spiritual independence day! Oh, my goodness! I'm going to totally do this!    Totally.   Thanks, Cato By the way, do you attend a church?

My wife just pulled me kicking and screaming to one a couple of weeks ago (its been about 35 years since I last attended any church).  I don't think she wants to go either, but since we have young children it is for their benefit.  As my wife was the one pushing, as well as a foreigner and former Catholic I let her choose (my only stipulation was I wasn't going to drive far), she chose a Unitarian Universalist church as she felt comfortable and they were not pushy.  I don't like the group thing but must admit they are tolerable; low key and free from a lot of dogma, though they push the social justice thing a bit much for me.  It is tough as I am a religious liberal, social moderate and political conservative, so I guess I am an odd bird.  The things I do for family, only my dear wife ( and I am blessed with a near perfect one for me at least) could get me to go, well at least they keep the singing to a minimum and I don't have to turn and clasp hands with the people on either side of me.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Cato @ May 06 2008,23:50)

…well at least they keep the singing to a minimum and I don't have to turn and clasp hands with the people on either side of me.

You crack me up!

Thanks for sharing the info with me. I have been thinking about attending one of these churches for quite a while. When I was a part of the orthodoxy group, we considered “those” churches to be lost or a cult.

Narrow mindedness and fear must be good friends.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Colter @ May 07 2008,00:22)

Many times during the training of the twelve Jesus reverted to this theme. Repeatedly he told them it was not his desire that those who believed in him should become dogmatized and standardized in accordance with the religious interpretations of even good men. Again and again he warned his apostles against the formulation of creeds and the establishment of traditions as a means of guiding and controlling believers in the gospel of the kingdom.” UB 1955

This sounds like something Jesus would say.

I believe that Jesus was anything but a conformist.  He certainly wasn't fond of traditions that took the place of true worship.  He thought it was ridiculous that the religious leaders would clean the outside of the glass, for instance!  I agree.

I wonder what Jesus would think and do if he happened to walk inside of a Catholic Church during high mass?

[Cato]

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 07 2008,04:01)

I wonder what Jesus would think and do if he happened to walk inside of a Catholic Church during high mass?

Your question brings up my old signature line “They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature.”—Thomas Jefferson

[Not3in1]

“….a system beyond the comprehension of man….” also brings to mind the Trinity doctrine. I dare say that Jesus would be flabbergasted to sit in any church these days.

[Not3in1]

I'll be honest with ya Colter, you used too many 50center's in your post and it was too difficult for me to follow. I'm not even sure what you said? I got the last part anyway. It might help to know I color my hair with lots of blonde hilights!

Mandy

[Not3in1]

Quote (Colter @ May 07 2008,10:25)

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 07 2008,09:25) I'll be honest with ya Colter, you used too many 50center's in your post and it was too difficult for me to follow.  I'm not even sure what you said?  I got the last part anyway.    It might help to know I color my hair with lots of blonde hilights!   Mandy Well, let me simplify it; consider that if you don't understand God then you may not understand Jesus either. When Jesus said “believe in me” he didn't say “figure me out”. Jesus is just as much a matter of faith. Colter

Gotcha!
Thanks, bro.
Mandy

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