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Irene,
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Kathi believes that Jesus always existed in the mind of Hos Father.Kathi! I do remember you saying something like that, just don't remember where you said that….if I find the post, I will bring it up….
But if not Sorry…..
Also Yahweh is the Hebrew name for Jehovah God…. One name, one God one Eternal God, our Heavenly Fathers name…… Scripture in Psalms proof that..You are denying what it says in
Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.
You see that it says “whose name ALONE is Jehovah Gods name….
Peace and Love IrenePeace and Love to you, Irene
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 03 2011,11:15) Pierre,
The Father is one God.
The Son is one Lord.
Together they make Jehovah our God…one unity.
Luke 1:32
“He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David.”Psalm 83:18
“That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.”The truth above is that Jesus is the son of the highest and the Most High is Jehovah according to the 2 verses above. Therefore Jesus must be the son of Jehovah.
No confusion when you understand this. Otherwise you have to devise doctrines to get around the difficulties of which there are many.
It is harder to argue a lie than the truth. The former requires covering your tracks, but enough investigative work will expose the lie if there is one.Your take leaves us with the difficulty of lining up that Jesus is the son of Jehovah, but is also Jehovah along with his Father, making him the son of himself thereby also making him his own Father and own son. That makes 2 sons and 2 fathers. See it doesn't add up like the truth does.
You also mention the unity of the Father and son, but Jesus invites us into that unity.
I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one–as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.In addition, we are explicitly told that Jesus will call us brothers and that our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his.
It makes sense because he became one of us, so that we can become like him.
He partook of our nature and we can partake of God's of which we assume that Christ also partakes.These are some points that directly contradict your doctrine.
t8,
The title 'Most High' can be applied to Jesus, or the Father, or the unity of the Father and the Son. It depends on context. According to 1 Cor 8:6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
In this verse, the Father would be the Most High God…the Son would be the Most High Lord. As a compound unity called Jehovah, Jehovah would be the Most High God as God AND Lord.
So, if the scripture says “Most High” we need to analyze the passage to determine who is being referred to as the Most High. We can't just assume that it refers to the Father, or Jesus, or the unity.
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 05 2011,02:10) t8,
The title 'Most High' can be applied to Jesus, or the Father, or the unity of the Father and the Son. It depends on context. According to 1 Cor 8:6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
In this verse, the Father would be the Most High God…the Son would be the Most High Lord. As a compound unity called Jehovah, Jehovah would be the Most High God as God AND Lord.
So, if the scripture says “Most High” we need to analyze the passage to determine who is being referred to as the Most High. We can't just assume that it refers to the Father, or Jesus, or the unity.
Kathi
Kathi,Again you are right on! Paul was speaking against the many gods and lords of the pagan hierarchies by declaring the God and the Lord of Christianity that is not hierarchial.
Hierarchies are for the pagans.
jack
Jack! How wrong can you get. How about what t8 wrote this Scripture in particular
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Jesus is the Son of the most Highest, and true God…. He will give Jesus the throne of his father David….Iren
Kathi
Dt 10:14 To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.
Dt 10:15 Yet the LORD set his affection on your forefathers and loved them, and he chose you, their descendants, above all the nations, as it is today.
Dt 10:16 Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer.
Dt 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.Rev 17:14 They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
is God of gods and Lord of lords,THIS IS GOD -the highest ranking being in creation is the LORD Christ and so God is his LORD and GOD
is Lord of lords and King of kingsAND THIS IS CHRIST(Eph 1:17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father,)SO GOD IS LORD OVER CHRIST BUT CHRIST IS LORD OVER ALL CREATION (Col 3:24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.)
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;Pierre
Pierre,
The Father is God to Christ according to His human nature and mediatorial role. In the deity nature, the pre-existent part of Christ, the Father is His literal Father who beget Him from within Himself. They are both deity, one as God of gods and the other as Lord of lords.Kathi
Not true kathi.
Jesus is in the glory he had with God before the world begun.
Read Revelation. Jesus still calls his Father, God.
That arguement you make is borrowed from the Trinitarians and it has been well and truly disproven on many previous discussions here.
This is eternal life, that we will know the one true God And Jesus Christ whom He has sent.
Do not be surprised with opposition. Many here love eternal life and do not wish to jeopodize that promise. We also know that many will come from us and will deceive many.
Try all you like, but many will hold to the truth that the Father is the one true God and Jesus/Yeshua is his son. even if you decide to ignore scripture as you are, you cannot ignore the self-explanatory
meanings of the terms son of God and Father.Hi T8 and Mike,
I've been reading and enjoying all the rudimentary philosophies. (Col.2:8) Because one can explain an idea, does not make it biblical!
Here is yet another verse that has to be gymnastically explained away to fit the many cocamemy ideas presented here; NO NAMES!Philippians 2:9-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him(Jesus), and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord(meaning “owner”), to the glory of God the Father.Notice how this verse doesn't say:
to the glory “WITH” the father; yet ‘IT somehow MUST’, , ‘IT someway HAS TO’!!!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Pastry @ Aug. 05 2011,12:52) Jack! How wrong can you get. How about what t8 wrote this Scripture in particular Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Jesus is the Son of the most Highest, and true God…. He will give Jesus the throne of his father David….Iren
Irene,Our God and our Lord are not like the ancient pagan hierarchies.
Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 06 2011,01:17) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 05 2011,12:52) Jack! How wrong can you get. How about what t8 wrote this Scripture in particular Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Jesus is the Son of the most Highest, and true God…. He will give Jesus the throne of his father David….Iren
Irene,Our God and our Lord are not like the ancient pagan hierarchies.
Jack
Jack! We are not debating the Lord Jesus, we are debating that their is only one Jehovah God….the God most High's name ALONEPsa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.
Psa 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name Jehovah, and rejoice before him.
And to show that Jesus is the Son of the m ost High in Luke1:32
Irene
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 06 2011,05:13) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 06 2011,01:17) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 05 2011,12:52) Jack! How wrong can you get. How about what t8 wrote this Scripture in particular Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Jesus is the Son of the most Highest, and true God…. He will give Jesus the throne of his father David….Iren
Irene,Our God and our Lord are not like the ancient pagan hierarchies.
Jack
Jack! We are not debating the Lord Jesus, we are debating that their is only one Jehovah God….the God most High's name ALONEPsa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.
Psa 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name Jehovah, and rejoice before him.
And to show that Jesus is the Son of the m ost High in Luke1:32
Irene
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,The Father Himself applied the name Jehovah in Psalm 102 to His Son (Hebrews 1:8-10).
Paul applied the name Jehovah in Isaiah 45:23-24 to Jesus (Philippians 2:10=11)
Psalm 83 disallows that Baal be called Jehovah. It does not disallow for Christ to share that name.
Two Jehovah's are working in Genesis 19:24
Quote 24and Jehovah hath rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah, from the heavens; Young's Literal Translation
Jehovah who was with Abraham rained down fire FROM Jehovah.
Jack
Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hbr 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Hbr 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Anyone ses Jehovah God in these Scriptures?
Not like the ones I gave in Psalms….
Jehovah God is the Highest Gods name and not Jesus name….. Irene
Quote Two Jehovah's are working in Genesis 19:24 Quote Our God and our Lord are not like the ancient pagan hierarchies. Technially they are, Vishnu and Shiva are considered and acknowedge the same way, I believe that the egyptians had many of the same.
Quote (princess @ Aug. 06 2011,09:34) Quote Two Jehovah's are working in Genesis 19:24 Quote Our God and our Lord are not like the ancient pagan hierarchies. Technially they are, Vishnu and Shiva are considered and acknowedge the same way, I believe that the egyptians had many of the same.
But not according to Scriptures…. and that is what is important to me……IreneMy Son does not have a good Father figure in his life. So I'm glad I can tell him, in a way that doesn't complicate his mind, that he has a Father in Heaven. He knows who Jesus is, our Lord and Master. He knows who the Father is, our Almighty God. And he knows how to preach it and pray. He's no hypocrite. Out of the mouth of babes.
t8
Quote Try all you like, but many will hold to the truth that the Father is the one true God and Jesus/Yeshua is his son. The Father is the one true God with Jesus the Lord of lords. Jehovah is both God and Lord…Father and Son. Jehovah is the name for the unity of two persons.
t8, if the Father is your one true God, who is your one true Lord? Only by the Spirit can we say and mean what is true.
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
1 Corinthians 12:3 NAS
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed “; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 06 2011,12:41) Quote (princess @ Aug. 06 2011,09:34) Quote Two Jehovah's are working in Genesis 19:24 Quote Our God and our Lord are not like the ancient pagan hierarchies. Technially they are, Vishnu and Shiva are considered and acknowedge the same way, I believe that the egyptians had many of the same.
But not according to Scriptures…. and that is what is important to me……Irene
Irene,To ask KJ, the cannon states that Jesus is God, surely you do not find it impossible for one to interpret the cannon this way.
I understand you do not believe in such, however does not change the fact that millions do.
Other cultures have different beliefs as well, I have come to find that most have a basic principles, love one another, speak kindly to one another, do not harm another, lie or steal from another, care for the ones that are in need, give without reward, these are core beliefs however, as is life, these simple principles are covered up with other things, which ones seem to think are more important.
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