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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,02:50) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2010,20:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,18:29) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,18:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,07:33) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 31 2010,18:27) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,04:56) Hi thinker, and WJ: Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”. Don't you believe him?
Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “
I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe scriptures call Jesus God, do you believe this?
Interesting, the scripture you quote, for in the same chapter Jesus didn't correct Thomas and give him the same information but instead blessed him when…
Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28, 29
Notice the Narrator John the witness says clearly “Thomas *said unto him*“, there is no wiggle room for any other interpretation.
You can say there is but that would only be inference the very thing that Trinitarians are accused of!
John also is the one that wrote John 1:1 clearly showing Jesus the Word that was with God is God!
You do not have to believe it, but you have no proof that what I say is not true.
The scriptures call Jesus God, and if he is not God then it would be Idolatry, or blasphemy to do so.
If he is “a god” in any sense and not the “True God” (1 John 5:20) then according to the Mosaic Law that would be Idolatry!
Tell me Marty if I call Jesus “my Lord and my God”, am I breaking the scriptures?
Blessings WJ
Hi Brother:Isn't the following scripture plain to you? It is to me. Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God. The is only “One God”.
Quote Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ Jesus is the express image of God's person. God made man in His onw image, and Jesus is the last Adam. The first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam is like God in that he is also a spirit of love. He is God in this sense. We have seen God through the works of obedience that he did to His God and our God and His Father and our Father.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYes it is plain to me that because of Jesus manhood he has a God.
But that does not at all answer the points that I make does it?
You say…
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) He is God in this sense.
There is no such teaching in scriptures. He is either God or he is not at all!To say that anything or any one is a god to you in any sense would be Idolatry unless he is the “True God”. John 20:28, Heb 1:8, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Jude 1:4, 4.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:What points do you not understand, he is the express image of God's person, and we have seen God character manifest through the life that Jesus lived in obedience to God even unto death on the cross.
He told us plainly that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.
He also said the following in John 17:
Quote 1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.3 And this is eternal life, that THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent There are no other points to consider. The scriptures plainly tell us that Jesus is the Son of God and is God's Christ. There is “only one God”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThank you!
But you are only proving that he is the Son of God!
But you are not addressing that Jesus is also called God!
Yes he is the “Express image of Gods person” [hypostasis] (literally essence or substance). Click here
In other words all the the Father is Jesus is.
Would you say your Father is less human than you, or is he of the same nature or essence as you?
Think about it, you cannot even say that you are the “express image of your Fathers person” can you?
How much more is Jesus in nature God?
Its not hard to understand that they are One in every way, just like the Sun and the Sunrays!
“The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being“, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1:3
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:You can try to wiggle your way out of this if you want, but Jesus has told us who is our God, and that should be sufficient.
No, I am not just proving that Jesus is the Son of God. God our Father has revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter in Matthew 16 that he is the Christ the Son of the Living God. I also know who he is because he gave his life for me so that I could have the priviledge and honor of being a son of the Most High God. This does not have to be proven. At least, not to me.
Jesus is the express image of God's person. He is a man who obeyed God's Word without sin even unto death on the cross. It is through the works of obedience to God's Word that he is the express image of God's person.
He said:
Quote John 14:28
You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2010,20:33) Hi WJ: You can try to wiggle your way out of this if you want, but Jesus has told us who is our God, and that should be sufficient.
MartyI missed this post somehow!
Wiggle my way out of what? Thats laughable!
Marty it is you that does not call accept the scritpures that call Jesus God!
All you can say is he is “God in a sense”.
That is wiggleing IMO!
I confess what the scriptures say Jesus is. You deny it!
Get real Brother!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.
That is pretty plain enough, isn't it? Is what Jesus has said not good enough for you?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2010,04:13)
TT,EDJI DO BELEIVE THAT JOHN THE BAPTIST MADE GOD AND CHRIST PAD STRAIGHT.
Hi Terraricca,Do some house cleaning and learn what “The Bible” really is saying…
[יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă made the path of [יהוה] YÄ-hä-vā straight!
Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 04 2010,14:23) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 04 2010,02:03) ED J said: Quote Hi Thinker, Here is your “PROOF”!
[Κύριος] kü-rē-ŏs means “Lord” or “Owner” and is akin to the Hebrew word [אדני] Âdônây meaning “Lord” or “Owner” as well.ED J,
The name “Jehovah” translates into the new testament as “kurios” (or Lord).
thinker
Hi Thinker,Names don't translate into 'titles'?
In Judaism, יהוה is reverenced to the degree that they don’t dare speak GOD’s Name for fear of saying His Name in vain. (Ex. 20:7 / Deut. 5:11)
The spoken use of name-omitting icons was inspired by this fear of saying GOD’s name in vain. The primary icon used for indirectly referencing
יהוה is [אדני] Âd-ô-nây meaning Lord or Owner. The secondary icon used for indirectly referencing הוהי is [ה שם] Hä-Shəm meaning “The Name”.
Name-substitutions have negatively affected people for many generations; producing the uncertainty of how exactly to pronounce GOD’s Name.
The use of name-omitting icons has effectually distanced (יהוה) “GOD” further and further from His Word.Most English-speaking people either know GOD’s Name as JEHOVAH or not at all.
The AKJV Bible has sometimes replaced [יהוה] YHVH with the correct title, “GOD”.
However LORD in all-capital letters, is predominantly used as the exclusive replacement
for הוהי in the AKJV Bible. LORD is an even less accurate title. This title-substitution occurs over 6,000 times
in the AKJV Bible. An example of this is in Psalms 8:9: “O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy Name in all the earth!”Whosoever shall call upon the name of “The LORD” shall be saved.
How then shall they call on in Him whom they have not believed?
And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
(Rom. 10:13-14) The identity of יהוה=26 is GOD=26 spoken as YÄ=26.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ED J,Don't tell me. Tell Matthew IF you should meet him. It was Matthew who substituted the word “kurios” for “YHWH. Mark did the same thing (Mk. 1:3).
thinker
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 23 2010,21:57) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,02:50) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2010,20:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,18:29) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,18:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,07:33) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 31 2010,18:27) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,04:56) Hi thinker, and WJ: Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”. Don't you believe him?
Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “
I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe scriptures call Jesus God, do you believe this?
Interesting, the scripture you quote, for in the same chapter Jesus didn't correct Thomas and give him the same information but instead blessed him when…
Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28, 29
Notice the Narrator John the witness says clearly “Thomas *said unto him*“, there is no wiggle room for any other interpretation.
You can say there is but that would only be inference the very thing that Trinitarians are accused of!
John also is the one that wrote John 1:1 clearly showing Jesus the Word that was with God is God!
You do not have to believe it, but you have no proof that what I say is not true.
The scriptures call Jesus God, and if he is not God then it would be Idolatry, or blasphemy to do so.
If he is “a god” in any sense and not the “True God” (1 John 5:20) then according to the Mosaic Law that would be Idolatry!
Tell me Marty if I call Jesus “my Lord and my God”, am I breaking the scriptures?
Blessings WJ
Hi Brother:Isn't the following scripture plain to you? It is to me. Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God. The is only “One God”.
Quote Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ Jesus is the express image of God's person. God made man in His onw image, and Jesus is the last Adam. The first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam is like God in that he is also a spirit of love. He is God in this sense. We have seen God through the works of obedience that he did to His God and our God and His Father and our Father.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYes it is plain to me that because of Jesus manhood he has a God.
But that does not at all answer the points that I make does it?
You say…
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) He is God in this sense.
There is no such teaching in scriptures. He is either God or he is not at all!To say that anything or any one is a god to you in any sense would be Idolatry unless he is the “True God”. John 20:28, Heb 1:8, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Jude 1:4, 4.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:What points do you not understand, he is the express image of God's person, and we have seen God character manifest through the life that Jesus lived in obedience to God even unto death on the cross.
He told us plainly that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.
He also said the following in John 17:
Quote 1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.3 And this is eternal life, that THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent There are no other points to consider. The scriptures plainly tell us that Jesus is the Son of God and is God's Christ. There is “only one God”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThank you!
But you are only proving that he is the Son of God!
But you are not addressing that Jesus is also called God!
Yes he is the “Express image of Gods person” [hypostasis] (literally essence or substance). Click here
In other words all the the Father is Jesus is.
Would you say your Father is less human than you, or is he of the same nature or essence as you?
Think about it, you cannot even say that you are the “express image of your Fathers person” can you?
How much more is Jesus in nature God?
Its not hard to understand that they are One in every way, just like the Sun and the Sunrays!
“The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being“, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb
1:3Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:You can try to wiggle your way out of this if you want, but Jesus has told us who is our God, and that should be sufficient.
No, I am not just proving that Jesus is the Son of God. God our Father has revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter in Matthew 16 that he is the Christ the Son of the Living God. I also know who he is because he gave his life for me so that I could have the priviledge and honor of being a son of the Most High God. This does not have to be proven. At least, not to me.
Jesus is the express image of God's person. He is a man who obeyed God's Word without sin even unto death on the cross. It is through the works of obedience to God's Word that he is the express image of God's person.
He said:
Quote John 14:28
You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2010,20:33) Hi WJ: You can try to wiggle your way out of this if you want, but Jesus has told us who is our God, and that should be sufficient.
MartyI missed this post somehow!
Wiggle my way out of what? Thats laughable!
Marty it is you that does not call accept the scritpures that call Jesus God!
All you can say is he is “God in a sense”.
That is wiggleing IMO!
I confess what the scriptures say Jesus is. You deny it!
Get real Brother!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.
That is pretty plain enough, isn't it? Is what Jesus has said not good enough for you?
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYes the Father also said Jesus is God and commanded the Angels to worship him. Is the Fathers words not good enough for you?
Sure Jesus words are good. But I do not deny the other scriptures which say Jesus is also God.
The term God is not exclusive of the Father. But when it comes to Jesus you guys say it does not apply.
But only the Father is God. Untrue!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2010,10:09) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 23 2010,21:57) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,02:50) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2010,20:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,18:29) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,18:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,07:33) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 31 2010,18:27) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,04:56) Hi thinker, and WJ: Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”. Don't you believe him?
Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “
I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe scriptures call Jesus God, do you believe this?
Interesting, the scripture you quote, for in the same chapter Jesus didn't correct Thomas and give him the same information but instead blessed him when…
Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28, 29
Notice the Narrator John the witness says clearly “Thomas *said unto him*“, there is no wiggle room for any other interpretation.
You can say there is but that would only be inference the very thing that Trinitarians are accused of!
John also is the one that wrote John 1:1 clearly showing Jesus the Word that was with God is God!
You do not have to believe it, but you have no proof that what I say is not true.
The scriptures call Jesus God, and if he is not God then it would be Idolatry, or blasphemy to do so.
If he is “a god” in any sense and not the “True God” (1 John 5:20) then according to the Mosaic Law that would be Idolatry!
Tell me Marty if I call Jesus “my Lord and my God”, am I breaking the scriptures?
Blessings WJ
Hi Brother:Isn't the following scripture plain to you? It is to me. Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God. The is only “One God”.
Quote Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ Jesus is the express image of God's person. God made man in His onw image, and Jesus is the last Adam. The first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam is like God in that he is also a spirit of love. He is God in this sense. We have seen God through the works of obedience that he did to His God and our God and His Father and our Father.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYes it is plain to me that because of Jesus manhood he has a God.
But that does not at all answer the points that I make does it?
You say…
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) He is God in this sense.
There is no such teaching in scriptures. He is either God or he is not at all!To say that anything or any one is a god to you in any sense would be Idolatry unless he is the “True God”. John 20:28, Heb 1:8, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Jude 1:4, 4.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:What points do you not understand, he is the express image of God's person, and we have seen God character manifest through the life that Jesus lived in obedience to God even unto death on the cross.
He told us plainly that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.
He also said the following in John 17:
Quote 1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.3 And this is eternal life, that THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent There are no other points to consider. The scriptures plainly tell us that Jesus is the Son of God and is God's Christ. There is “only one God”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThank you!
But you are only proving that he is the Son of God!
But you are not addressing that Jesus is also called God!
Yes he is the “Express image of Gods person” [hypostasis] (literally essence or substance). Click here
In other words all the the Father is Jesus is.
Would you say your Father is less human than you, or is he of the same nature or essence as you?
Think about it, you cannot even say that you are the “express image of your Fathers person” can you?
How much more is Jesus in nature God?
Its not hard to understand that they are One in every way, just like the Sun and the Sunrays!
“The Son i
s the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being“, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1:3Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:You can try to wiggle your way out of this if you want, but Jesus has told us who is our God, and that should be sufficient.
No, I am not just proving that Jesus is the Son of God. God our Father has revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter in Matthew 16 that he is the Christ the Son of the Living God. I also know who he is because he gave his life for me so that I could have the priviledge and honor of being a son of the Most High God. This does not have to be proven. At least, not to me.
Jesus is the express image of God's person. He is a man who obeyed God's Word without sin even unto death on the cross. It is through the works of obedience to God's Word that he is the express image of God's person.
He said:
Quote John 14:28
You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2010,20:33) Hi WJ: You can try to wiggle your way out of this if you want, but Jesus has told us who is our God, and that should be sufficient.
MartyI missed this post somehow!
Wiggle my way out of what? Thats laughable!
Marty it is you that does not call accept the scritpures that call Jesus God!
All you can say is he is “God in a sense”.
That is wiggleing IMO!
I confess what the scriptures say Jesus is. You deny it!
Get real Brother!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.
That is pretty plain enough, isn't it? Is what Jesus has said not good enough for you?
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYes the Father also said Jesus is God and commanded the Angels to worship him. Is the Fathers words not good enough for you?
Sure Jesus words are good. But I do not deny the other scriptures which say Jesus is also God.
The term God is not exclusive of the Father. But when it comes to Jesus you guys say it does not apply.
But only the Father is God. Untrue!
WJ
Hi WJ:This is the scripture to which you refer and it says:
Quote 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
He is worthy of all honor, glory and praise, and without him we could not be reconciled to our God, but he has told us that he was ascending to his God and our God. And he said the following also:
Quote Jhn 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Jhn 17:2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jhn 17:3And this is life eternal, that they might knowthee the only true God, andJesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.Love in Christ,
MartyMarty said:
Quote He is worthy of all honor, glory and praise, and without him we could not be reconciled to our God, but he has told us that he was ascending to his God and our God. And he said the following also:
Marty,Now here is the other side of it:
But to the Son He says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.Do the words of the Father carry equal authority with you?
thinker
Hi TT,
Do you think that if the Father calls His Son GOD that makes them somehow equal or even the same??
God calls many GODS.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2010,04:46) Hi TT,
Do you think that if the Father calls His Son GOD that makes them somehow equal or even the same??
God calls many GODS.
Nick,Jesus has been given a name that is “ABOVE every name.” THEREFORE, the name “God” in reference to all others is not equivalent to the name “God” in reference to Jesus.
Yes it makes Him EQUAL to the Father:
Ephesians 4:6 Young's Literal translation:
6one God and Father of all, who [is] over all, and through all, and in you all,Romans 9:5:
of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses.
* The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority.
thinker
Hi TT,
Thanks for your personal interpretation but it lacks substance.
The one blessed is less than the one Who blesses.[Heb7]THERFORE often causes you to stumble reliant on your thoughts instead of scripture.
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 24 2010,21:15) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2010,10:09) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 23 2010,21:57) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,02:50) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2010,20:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,18:29) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,18:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,07:33) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 31 2010,18:27) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,04:56) Hi thinker, and WJ: Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”. Don't you believe him?
Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “
I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe scriptures call Jesus God, do you believe this?
Interesting, the scripture you quote, for in the same chapter Jesus didn't correct Thomas and give him the same information but instead blessed him when…
Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28, 29
Notice the Narrator John the witness says clearly “Thomas *said unto him*“, there is no wiggle room for any other interpretation.
You can say there is but that would only be inference the very thing that Trinitarians are accused of!
John also is the one that wrote John 1:1 clearly showing Jesus the Word that was with God is God!
You do not have to believe it, but you have no proof that what I say is not true.
The scriptures call Jesus God, and if he is not God then it would be Idolatry, or blasphemy to do so.
If he is “a god” in any sense and not the “True God” (1 John 5:20) then according to the Mosaic Law that would be Idolatry!
Tell me Marty if I call Jesus “my Lord and my God”, am I breaking the scriptures?
Blessings WJ
Hi Brother:Isn't the following scripture plain to you? It is to me. Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God. The is only “One God”.
Quote Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ Jesus is the express image of God's person. God made man in His onw image, and Jesus is the last Adam. The first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam is like God in that he is also a spirit of love. He is God in this sense. We have seen God through the works of obedience that he did to His God and our God and His Father and our Father.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYes it is plain to me that because of Jesus manhood he has a God.
But that does not at all answer the points that I make does it?
You say…
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) He is God in this sense.
There is no such teaching in scriptures. He is either God or he is not at all!To say that anything or any one is a god to you in any sense would be Idolatry unless he is the “True God”. John 20:28, Heb 1:8, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Jude 1:4, 4.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:What points do you not understand, he is the express image of God's person, and we have seen God character manifest through the life that Jesus lived in obedience to God even unto death on the cross.
He told us plainly that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.
He also said the following in John 17:
Quote 1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.3 And this is eternal life, that THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent There are no other points to consider. The scriptures plainly tell us that Jesus is the Son of God and is God's Christ. There is “only one God”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThank you!
But you are only proving that he is the Son of God!
But you are not addressing that Jesus is also called God!
Yes he is the “Express image of Gods person” [hypostasis] (literally essence or substance). Click here
In other words all the the Father is Jesus is.
Would you say your Father is less human than you, or is he of the same nature or essence as you?
Think about it, you cannot even say that you are the “express image of your F
athers person” can you?How much more is Jesus in nature God?
Its not hard to understand that they are One in every way, just like the Sun and the Sunrays!
“The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being“, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1:3
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:You can try to wiggle your way out of this if you want, but Jesus has told us who is our God, and that should be sufficient.
No, I am not just proving that Jesus is the Son of God. God our Father has revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter in Matthew 16 that he is the Christ the Son of the Living God. I also know who he is because he gave his life for me so that I could have the priviledge and honor of being a son of the Most High God. This does not have to be proven. At least, not to me.
Jesus is the express image of God's person. He is a man who obeyed God's Word without sin even unto death on the cross. It is through the works of obedience to God's Word that he is the express image of God's person.
He said:
Quote John 14:28
You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2010,20:33) Hi WJ: You can try to wiggle your way out of this if you want, but Jesus has told us who is our God, and that should be sufficient.
MartyI missed this post somehow!
Wiggle my way out of what? Thats laughable!
Marty it is you that does not call accept the scritpures that call Jesus God!
All you can say is he is “God in a sense”.
That is wiggleing IMO!
I confess what the scriptures say Jesus is. You deny it!
Get real Brother!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.
That is pretty plain enough, isn't it? Is what Jesus has said not good enough for you?
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYes the Father also said Jesus is God and commanded the Angels to worship him. Is the Fathers words not good enough for you?
Sure Jesus words are good. But I do not deny the other scriptures which say Jesus is also God.
The term God is not exclusive of the Father. But when it comes to Jesus you guys say it does not apply.
But only the Father is God. Untrue!
WJ
Hi WJ:This is the scripture to which you refer and it says:
Quote 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
He is worthy of all honor, glory and praise, and without him we could not be reconciled to our God, but he has told us that he was ascending to his God and our God. And he said the following also:
Quote Jhn 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Jhn 17:2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jhn 17:3And this is life eternal, that they might knowthee the only true God, andJesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyWhy did you leave out verses 7, and 8 of Hebrews 1?
And why do you leave out that Thomas right after Jesus statement that he was going to his Father and God, Thomas said to Jesus “My Lord and My God”?
Jesus nor John the inspired writer corrected Thomas did they?
You preach a damnable heresy that was condemned which Arius preached!
while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, Tit 2:13
The Father is not coming again is he?
Check the Greek word out for “Appearing” for in the NT it is only used in refering to Jesus coming!
Blessings WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2010,13:15) The one blessed is less than the one Who blesses.
NHWhat kind of rediculous logic is this?
“Bless the LORD“, O my soul: and all that is within me, “bless his holy name“. Ps 103:1
Is David greater than YHWH.
When you bless someone with a gift, does that mean that you are greater than that person?
You guys are amazing and seek all kinds of ways to reduce Jesus.
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2010,05:15) Hi TT,
Thanks for your personal interpretation but it lacks substance.
The one blessed is less than the one Who blesses.[Heb7]THERFORE often causes you to stumble reliant on your thoughts instead of scripture.
So the term “over all” in reference to the Father and Jesus are not equal terms?thinker
Worshippingjesus said:
Quote And why do you leave out that Thomas right after Jesus statement that he was going to his Father and God, Thomas said to Jesus “My Lord and My God”? Keith,
Good point bro! I never thought about the fact that Thomas' confession of Christ being His Lord and his God was right after Jesus said, “I go to My God.”
This means that Thomas did not infer what the anti-trinitarians infer from Christ's statement.
Hmmmmmm
Jack
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,07:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2010,13:15) The one blessed is less than the one Who blesses.
NHWhat kind of rediculous logic is this?
“Bless the LORD“, O my soul: and all that is within me, “bless his holy name“. Ps 103:1
Is David greater than YHWH.
When you bless someone with a gift, does that mean that you are greater than that person?
You guys are amazing and seek all kinds of ways to reduce Jesus.
WJ
Keith,Also, it is not said that God blessed Jesus.
Jack
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,07:28) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 24 2010,21:15) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2010,10:09) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 23 2010,21:57) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,02:50) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2010,20:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,18:29) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,18:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,07:33) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 31 2010,18:27) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,04:56) Hi thinker, and WJ: Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”. Don't you believe him?
Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “
I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe scriptures call Jesus God, do you believe this?
Interesting, the scripture you quote, for in the same chapter Jesus didn't correct Thomas and give him the same information but instead blessed him when…
Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28, 29
Notice the Narrator John the witness says clearly “Thomas *said unto him*“, there is no wiggle room for any other interpretation.
You can say there is but that would only be inference the very thing that Trinitarians are accused of!
John also is the one that wrote John 1:1 clearly showing Jesus the Word that was with God is God!
You do not have to believe it, but you have no proof that what I say is not true.
The scriptures call Jesus God, and if he is not God then it would be Idolatry, or blasphemy to do so.
If he is “a god” in any sense and not the “True God” (1 John 5:20) then according to the Mosaic Law that would be Idolatry!
Tell me Marty if I call Jesus “my Lord and my God”, am I breaking the scriptures?
Blessings WJ
Hi Brother:Isn't the following scripture plain to you? It is to me. Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God. The is only “One God”.
Quote Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ Jesus is the express image of God's person. God made man in His onw image, and Jesus is the last Adam. The first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam is like God in that he is also a spirit of love. He is God in this sense. We have seen God through the works of obedience that he did to His God and our God and His Father and our Father.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYes it is plain to me that because of Jesus manhood he has a God.
But that does not at all answer the points that I make does it?
You say…
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) He is God in this sense.
There is no such teaching in scriptures. He is either God or he is not at all!To say that anything or any one is a god to you in any sense would be Idolatry unless he is the “True God”. John 20:28, Heb 1:8, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Jude 1:4, 4.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:What points do you not understand, he is the express image of God's person, and we have seen God character manifest through the life that Jesus lived in obedience to God even unto death on the cross.
He told us plainly that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.
He also said the following in John 17:
Quote 1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.3 And this is eternal life, that THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent There are no other points to consider. The scriptures plainly tell us that Jesus is the Son of God and is God's Christ. There is “only one God”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThank you!
But you are only proving that he is the Son of God!
But you are not addressing that Jesus is also called God!
Yes he is the “Express image of Gods person” [hypostasis] (literally essence or substance). Click here
In other words all the the Father is Jesus is.
Would you say your Father is less human than you, or is he of the same nature or essence as you?
Think about it, you cannot even say that you are the “express image of your Fathers person” can you?
How much more is Jesus in nature God?
Its not hard to understand that they are One in every way, just like the Sun and the Sunrays!
“The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being“, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1:3
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:You can try to wiggle your way out of this if you want, but Jesus has told us who is our God, and that should be sufficient.
No, I am not just proving that Jesus is the Son of God. God our Father has revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter in Matthew 16 that he is the Christ the Son of the Living God. I also know who he is because he gave his life for me so that I could have the priviledge and honor of being a son of the Most High God. This does not have to be proven. At least, not to me.
Jesus is the express image of God's person. He is a man who obeyed God's Word without sin even unto death on the cross. It is through the works of obedience to God's Word that he is the express image of God's person.
He said:
Quote John 14:28
You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2010,20:33) Hi WJ: You can try to wiggle your way out of this if you want, but Jesus has told us who is our God, and that should be sufficient.
MartyI missed this post somehow!
Wiggle my way out of what? Thats laughable!
Marty it is you that does not call accept the scritpures that call Jesus God!
All you can say is he is “God in a sense”.
That is wiggleing IMO!
I confess what the scriptures say Jesus is. You deny it!
Get real Brother!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.
That is pretty plain enough, isn't it? Is what Jesus has said not good enough for you?
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYes the Father also said Jesus is God and commanded the Angels to worship him. Is the Fathers words not good enough for you?
Sure Jesus words are good. But I do not deny the other scriptures which say Jesus is also God.
The term God is not exclusive of the Father. But when it comes to Jesus you guys say it does not apply.
But only the Father is God. Untrue!
WJ
Hi WJ:This is the scripture to which you refer and it says:
Quote 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
He is worthy of all honor, glory and praise, and without him we could not be reconciled to our God, but he has told us that he was ascending to his God and our God. And he said the following also:
Quote Jhn 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Jhn 17:2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jhn 17:3And this is life eternal, that they might knowthee the only true God, andJesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyWhy did you leave out verses 7, and 8 of Hebrews 1?
And why do you leave out that Thomas right after Jesus statement that he was going to his Father and God, Thomas said to Jesus “My Lord and My God”?
Jesus nor John the inspired writer corrected Thomas did they?
You preach a damnable heresy that was condemned which Arian preached!
while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, Tit 2:13
The Father is not coming again is he?
Check the Greek word out for “Appearing” for in the NT it is only used in refering to Jesus coming!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:Hebrews 1:7-8 states:
Quote 8But(God) unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
And so, God calls his Son God when he exalts him as Lord over the church because of his righteousness. He is the express image of God's person, and is also God's representative to humanity, but no, he is not God in the sense that you “trinitarians” indicate. He is the last Adam. There is only “one God”, and he made man in His own image. There is “Only One God” whom we worship as God.
And so, what if Thomas called him God, does that negate that Jesus said that he was ascending to his God and our God. It does not. Jesus had said “he who hath seen me hath seen the Father”.
Jesus said the following in response to the Pharisees:
Quote 33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?[c] 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe[d] that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” 39 Th
erefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.You say:
Quote You preach a damnable heresy that was condemned which Arian preached! I preach what I know to be the truth, and since the Lord is the judge, I will let him determine whether or not I a preaching the truth.
And relative to the following:
while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, Tit 2:13
The Father is not coming again is he?
Check the Greek word out for “Appearing” for in the NT it is only used in refering to Jesus coming!
Quote Yes, absolutely the Father is Coming again, he dwells within his temple, the body of Christ. No, I am not taking away or lessening what Jesus has done for humanity. No one would be saved if he had not obeyed our God and Father even unto death on the cross. He is the propitiation for our sins, but by his own words there is only “One True God”, his Father and his God, and my Father and my God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 27 2010,08:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2010,05:15) Hi TT,
Thanks for your personal interpretation but it lacks substance.
The one blessed is less than the one Who blesses.[Heb7]THERFORE often causes you to stumble reliant on your thoughts instead of scripture.
So the term “over all” in reference to the Father and Jesus are not equal terms?thinker
Hi TT,Isn't it funny how you keep arguing over the same garbage
over and over and over again and again and again.First: [יהוה] YÄ-hä-vā translates directly into English as YHVH. (AKJV Bible: JEHOVAH)
Secondly: [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă translates directly into English as Joshua. (AKJV Bible: Jesus)[אדני] Âdônây in Hebrew means: “Lord” or “Owner” and is akin to
[Κύριος] kü-rē-ŏs in Greek meaning “The Same”: “Lord” or “Owner”They CANNOT argue with this “Bible Truth”! (LORD: means Owner)
I will orchestrate my explanation around the term “Owner”.
The AKJV Bible uses: Lord for [יהשוע] and LORD for [יהוה].The names have been changed to protect the innocent! (Acts.18:15)
In the red corner it's “The Trinitarian” VERSUS “The non-Trinitarians”
in the blue corner: in a nonsensical useless battle over word structures.
This nonsensical fight is merely over word structures like master, king, Lord, Creator and God.
I will illustrate just how ridiculous their fight is: it's like the Abbot and Costello skit: who's on first!
I will illustrate my point using the term “Owner”, because this word adds clarity that the others lack.The Trinitarians say: Jesus is “The Owner”.
The non-Trinitarians reply: Jesus is NOT “The Owner”, Jesus' Father is “The Owner”!The Same issue: A Closer Examination
Technically Jesus is: “owner” but NOT “THE OWNER”!
This can be clearly seen and understood using the word “Owner”!Jehovah is “The Owner” and Jesus is The Son of “The Owner”.
Jehovah CANNOT DIE, so Jehovah will ALWAYS remain “The Owner”!
A Son can 'only' become become fully “The Owner” if the Parent dies,
which in JEHOVAH's case cannot happen; because GOD CANNOT DIE!Now Change “The Word“, (Ha Ha Ha, ha ha ha) GET IT; That's exactly what both sides are doing!
They change “THE WORD” with useless substitutes like [†] master, King, Lord, Creator and God.
In this matter “The Word”(HolySpirit) is clear! 1Thess.4:8 He therefore that despiseth,
Here despiseth not man, but “GOD“, who hath also given unto us HIS HOLY SPIRIT.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2010,05:56) Hi KJ,
Jesus is Lord and not his God.
Nick,I said:
Quote Jesus Christ was exalted to God's right hand and in that position He enjoys the title “only Master and Lord” of men (Jude vs. 4-5). You replied:
Quote You have just suggested he BECAME GOD.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….=212288Explain why you equate the terms “Lord” and “God.”
KJ
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