- This topic is empty.
- Posts
we look to nature to look for the Trinity you say….!?!? good point… one good example is the sun… we have the sun, its rays and its warmth….. we have, in plants… the root shoot and leaf… we have in water, ice water ands steam…. there is trinity everywhere… so thanks for allowing this principle to be addressed, though how you can say this and also jump on your “if the exact words don't appear in the Bible then the concept isn't biblical….” I guess you invoke that theory only when it is convenient ehhh?
*************************Epi, in all your wisdom, tell me something – can a root live by itself? Can the sun exist without it's rays? Can steam become steam unless water is boiling? My point: God is God ALONE. He can be, and has been, GOD before Jesus was ever born.
Epi writes;
and the trinity is indeed explained in the Bible… what!?!? you think it was made up in whole cloth and thousands of years of Christians just haven't been as smart as you or something? please….. give me a break… disagree with the Trinitarians if you like, but don't be patronizing and think that no one knew how to study and interpret the Bible until you came along…? give me a break…..
************************************Epi, why are you so unhappy? I'll give you a break alright. Trying to learn anything from a man like yourself would be extremely difficult as you do not have a teachable spirit. Why should you? You know it all.
So, I'll be watching and listening and learning from YOU from now on……..
I see my post has reveived a lot of reactions from the Trinitarians.
I'm guessing it made you a bit mad, huh?
I'm guessing it's because the Trinity cannot be found in logic. Only Man's wisdom can dance around (and around, and around, and around….) the logic that tells us the TRINITY ISN'T TRUE. And that makes you madder than hornets. That's OK. Be mad. As Tim2's logic tells us – it's better that I make you mad than to let you die in your sin.
“blessings”Hi Not3,
Because trinity is not scriptural teaching but built of assembled verses all lined up to salute the concept it cannot stand. Inference is the base and greek logic the cement and neither has any validity in comparisons with the teaching of God. They have had 1800 years of mystery Babylon to practise the twostep though and traditions do die hard.The Scriptures declare that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God. I've been asking anyone on this site to refute this for weeks, and nobody has. This is the content of the Athanasian Creed. So if you don't refute this and accept it as true, you are Trinitarian (and thus Christian), and no inference is needed.
Christians have also understood that if three persons are God, then God exists in three persons. In response to the accusation that this is illogical, Christians have shown that it is completely logical, if you don't apply the same assumptions about creation to the Creator, the critical assumption being the definition of matter, “anything that has mass and occupies space.” Under this definition, it is impossible for the same eight ounces of water to exist in three glasses equally at the same time because the same matter would be occupying three different spaces.
But God is not matter. You can't apply the definition of matter to Him. There is nothing in Scripture that prevents Him from existing in three different persons. He is one substance (being) in three subsistences (existences). This is impossible with matter. But not with God.
For further explanation, please read Berkhof's “Systematic Theology,” p. 88.Tim
Hi Tim2,
We do not define God according to possibilities but discover what He has revealed about Himself in scripture.
He has never told us He is a trinity so why would we prefer your ideas?Quote (Not3in1 @ April 25 2007,06:49) I see my post has reveived a lot of reactions from the Trinitarians. I'm guessing it made you a bit mad, huh?
I'm guessing it's because the Trinity cannot be found in logic. Only Man's wisdom can dance around (and around, and around, and around….) the logic that tells us the TRINITY ISN'T TRUE. And that makes you madder than hornets. That's OK. Be mad. As Tim2's logic tells us – it's better that I make you mad than to let you die in your sin.
“blessings”
not3Dont flatter yourself!
I dont see any one mad. I simply commented on Es good points.
When you make some good ones I will compliment you too.
Hi W,
Tim2 said this
” This is the content of the Athanasian Creed. So if you don't refute this and accept it as true, you are Trinitarian (and thus Christian), and no inference is needed.”
Do you agree or not?Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2007,09:42) Hi W,
Tim2 said this
” This is the content of the Athanasian Creed. So if you don't refute this and accept it as true, you are Trinitarian (and thus Christian), and no inference is needed.”
Do you agree or not?
NHIf the Athanasian creed says there is One God in three persons.
Then I agree.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2007,10:07) Hi W,
That creed does.
However the bible does not.
Choose this day which you would serve.
NHI have chosem my Lord and God who is my only master.
But what about you? How many masters do you serve?
You call Jesus your lord and master but you also have God as your master and Lord.
Thou shalt Love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength.
Is there another being other than God we are supposed to serve as our Lord and Master?
Thomas knew. “My Lord and My God”
The Lord our God is one! Father,Son and Holy Spirit.
If the Athanasian creed says there is One God in three persons.
Then I agree.
*****************And if Peter confessed that Jesus is the Son of the living God (not the second person in the Trinity), then I agree.
Thomas knew. “My Lord and My God”
*********************************Boy, you guys really love Thomas, don't you?
Paul tells us there is One God, and one Lord.
If Thomas is confessing (as you hope he is) that Jesus is both that same One God AND Lord – then Thomas is confused! Note that he is the only one of the followers that did this, too. Hm???
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 25 2007,11:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2007,10:07) Hi W,
That creed does.
However the bible does not.
Choose this day which you would serve.
NHI have chosem my Lord and God who is my only master.
But what about you? How many masters do you serve?
You call Jesus your lord and master but you also have God as your master and Lord.
Thou shalt Love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength.
Is there another being other than God we are supposed to serve as our Lord and Master?
Thomas knew. “My Lord and My God”
The Lord our God is one! Father,Son and Holy Spirit.
Hi W,
Can we choose our own Lord?
God appointed Jesus for US.Quote (Not3in1 @ April 25 2007,15:31) Thomas knew. “My Lord and My God”
*********************************Boy, you guys really love Thomas, don't you?
Paul tells us there is One God, and one Lord.
If Thomas is confessing (as you hope he is) that Jesus is both that same One God AND Lord – then Thomas is confused! Note that he is the only one of the followers that did this, too. Hm???
Hi Not3,Then the twenty four elders were confused as well, for they said, “Worthy are you, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power.” Revelation 4:11. So God is the Lord, and the Lord is God.
But you really shouldn't resort to accusing an apostle of being confused. Listen to what they say. They are the ambassadors of Christ. 2 Corinthians 5;20.
Tim
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 25 2007,15:31) Thomas knew. “My Lord and My God”
*********************************Boy, you guys really love Thomas, don't you?
Paul tells us there is One God, and one Lord.
If Thomas is confessing (as you hope he is) that Jesus is both that same One God AND Lord – then Thomas is confused! Note that he is the only one of the followers that did this, too. Hm???
Not3in1Yes we love the truth.
You should do a close study of Thomas claim.
But here is a little insight.
Jn 20:
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And *Thomas answered and said unto him*, My LORD and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.When studying scriptures good hermeneutics means we should always keep the context in mind.
Thomas had witnessed the crucifixtion of the Lord Jesus, and also I believe he remembered the words of Jesus that he would come again and that if they destroyed his temple, his body, then in three days he would raise it up.
After eight days Jesus appears and “Thomas says *unto him*, My Lord and my God.
Now there is several problems here for the non-Trinitarians.
1.He specifically spoke to Jesus.
2.He called him Lord and God (Theos).
3.Jesus didn’t rebuke him or correct him.What this means is:
1.Thomas committed an act of Idolatry.or
2.He was doing the right thing.
2 is the only option since Jesus never rebuked him nor corrected him but actually blessed him, for “Jesus ‘saith unto him’, *Thomas, because thou hast seen me*, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Jesus accepted Thomas's confession.
Remember the context.
The kicker is John the witness and writer of these things says in the very next verses…
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.This same John also writes John 1:1 and many other scriptures attesting to the diety of Christ.
If what Thomas did was not right then it would be considered Idolatry!
Wouldn’t have John or Jesus corrected him?
Yet John the beloved desciple who leaned on his bosum says this was a “sign” that Jesus is the Monogenes “Unique” Son of God, the Word that was with God and was God and was tabernacled among us.
This is Unambiguous.
Yeshua is the Lord from heaven!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
