- This topic is empty.
- Posts
I'M WONDERING WHAT THE PEOPLE OF THIS FORUM MAKE OF SCRIPTURES SUCH AS:
MATTHEW 5:5
““Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.”PROVERBS 2:21-22
“For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.”THE BIBLE SPEAKS OF A NEW EARTH.
2 PETER 3:13
“But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.”
REVELATION 21:1
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.”IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT THE WAY THE EARTH IS NOW IS THE WAY GOD PURPOSED IT TO BE. WAR, SICKNESS, DEATH, SIN, ETC, IS NOT GOD'S WILL FOR THE EARTH.
ANY COMMENTS?
David
Sorry, I didn't really finish that though, and I was expecting the topic to be: Let your will take place as in heaven, also upon earth.
Important things to pray for:
God's name being sanctified
God's kingdom coming
God's will taking place as in heaven, ALSO UPON EARTH.
Then, we're told to pray for our daily needsPeople have been saying this prayer for a couple thousand years, yet, most people don't seem to take note of the words or the meaning.
WHAT WILL THE ANSWERING OF THIS PRAYER MEAN FOR MANKIND?
Hi david,
The prayer is the daily commitment by the saved to the service of the Master. The opening with praise to as with “enter his gates with thanksgiving in your hearts, enter His courts with praise”
The daily updating of forgiveness accounts that we may enjoy the Father's grace today. We seek His will, safety and supply and protection from the evil one as we set out on the day's journey, the light yoke.
The prayer is not to My Father but to Our Father showing that we are part of a body working together in the Body.
The complete fulfillment will be in the restoration of the kingdom in the 1000yr reign by those in the first resurrection with Christ, so that all may be submitted again to the Father.Right, I'm also wondering what the people of this forum think of God's Kingdom we are told to pray for. This Kingdom will be the instrument by which much of that prayer will be answered.
But, maybe my question wasn't really clear. I'm actually wondering what people think the future of the earth is.
I'm wondering what people think of the fortold “new earth” that we are awaiting according to his promise.
As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, but the earth he has given to the sons of men.
I don't know what scripture that is, or even if I quoted it exactly right.There are about five scriptures in the Bible that basically say: The earth will remain forever.
Since Jehovah originally put man on the earth, to cultivate it and take care of it, to look after it….
Since death wasn't to be a part of their life unless they disobeyed…
Since there was this other tree, the tree of life, that seems to indicate that had they not sinned, they could have remained in paradise and spread it out…
Since no mention was made of heaven as a reward for obedience, but rather death or non-existence was told to them as a punishement…
For these reasons and more, it seems God's original purpose for the entire earth was a paradise.Since God's purpose can not be thwarted by Adam or Satan or anyone….
WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN.
What does it mean for earth and mankind? That's what I was actually wanting this topic to be about.
Any comments?
Hi,
The “New Earth” of Revelation 21 is the old earth, destroyed by fir[2Peter 3.7]and which had fled from the presence of the Lamb on the throne of Judgement[Rev 20.11], but renovated and restored. There God will make His dwelling place.2 PETER 3:7
“But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.”“the HEAVENS and the earth that are now” are stored up for fire.
If you are to take that this is literal, what effect would fire have on the heavens?Will God himself destroy the earth by fire?
Does 2 Peter 3:7, 10 (KJ) support that view? “The heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition [“destruction,” RS] of ungodly men. . . . The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up [“burned (burnt) up,” RS, JB; “will vanish,” TEV; “will be made manifest,” NAB; “will be laid bare,” NE; “will be discovered,” NW].” (Note: The Codex Sinaiticus and Vatican MS 1209, both of the 4th century C.E., read “be discovered.” Later manuscripts, the 5th-century Codex Alexandrinus and the 16th-century Clementine recension of the Vulgate, read “be burned up.”)
Does Revelation 21:1 (KJ) indicate that our planet will be destroyed? “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
To be correct, the explanation of these verses must agree with the context and with the rest of the Bible
If these texts (2 Peter 3:7, 10 and Revelation 21:1) mean that the literal planet Earth is to be consumed by fire, then the literal heavens (the stars and other heavenly bodies) are also to be destroyed by fire. Such a literal view, however, conflicts with the assurance contained in such texts as Matthew 6:10, Psalm 37:29 and 104:5, also Proverbs 2:21, 22. Furthermore, what effect would fire have on the already intensely hot sun and stars? So the term “earth” in the above-quoted texts must be understood in a different sense.
At Genesis 11:1, First Kings 2:1, 2, First Chronicles 16:31, Psalm 96:1, etc., the term “earth” is used in a figurative sense, referring to mankind, to human society. Might that be the case at 2 Peter 3:7, 10 and Revelation 21:1?
Note that, in the context, at 2 Peter 3:5, 6 (also 2:5, 9), a parallel is drawn with the Flood of Noah’s day, in which wicked human society was destroyed, but Noah and his household, as well as the globe itself, were preserved. Likewise, at 2 Peter 3:7 it says that the ones to be destroyed are “ungodly men.” The view that “the earth” here refers to wicked human society fully agrees with the rest of the Bible, as is illustrated by the texts cited above. It is that symbolic “earth,” or wicked human society, that is “discovered”; that is, Jehovah will sear away as by fire all disguise, exposing the wickedness of ungodly human society and showing it to be worthy of complete destruction. That wicked society of humans is also “the first earth,” referred to at Revelation 21:1 (KJ).
Consistently, Jesus’ expression at Luke 21:33 (“heaven and earth will pass away, but . . . ”) must be understood in the light of the parallel statement at Luke 16:17 (“it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than . . . ”), both of which simply emphasize the impossibility of the situations presented.—See also Matthew 5:18.
So, anyway, you say God will make his dwelling place on the renovated and restored earth.
People will be on this earth as well?Like all other created things, the earth was brought into existence because of Jehovah’s will (“pleasure,” KJ). (Re 4:11)
It was created to remain forever. (Ps 78:69; 104:5; 119:90; Ec 1:4)
God speaks of himself as a God of purpose and declares that his purposes are certain to come to fruition. (Isa 46:10; 55:11)
He made his purpose for the earth very clear when he said to the first human pair:
“Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.” (Ge 1:28)Man’s habitation on earth is also permanent. When God gave man the law regarding the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, he implied that man could live on earth forever. (Ge 2:17)
We are assured by Jehovah’s own words that “all the days the earth continues, seed sowing and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, will never cease” (Ge 8:22) and that he will never destroy all flesh again by a flood. (Ge 9:12-16)
Jehovah says that he did not make the earth for nothing but, rather, that he has given it to men as a home and that death will eventually be done away with. God’s purpose, therefore, is for the earth to be the habitation of man in perfection and happiness with eternal life.—Ps 37:11; 115:16; Isa 45:18; Re 21:3, 4.
That this is the purpose of Jehovah God, sacred to him and not to be thwarted, is indicated when the Bible says: “And by the seventh day God came to the completion of his work that he had made . . . And God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred, because on it he has been resting from all his work that God has created for the purpose of making.” (Ge 2:2, 3) The seventh, or rest, day is not shown in the Genesis account as ending, as in the case of the other six days. The apostle Paul explained that the rest day of God had been continuous right through Israelite history down to his own time and had not yet ended. (Heb 3:7-11; 4:3-9) God says the seventh day was set aside as sacred to him. He would carry out his purpose toward the earth; it would be fully accomplished during that day, with no necessity of further creative works toward the earth during that time.
Revelation 11:18 speaks of God's appointed time to “bring to ruin” those ruining the earth. Jehovah will not allow his creation, the earth to be destroyed.
If a landlord has bad tenants that are ruining the building, does the landlord burn down his building, or does he rather, removed the bad tenants, and leave the good ones?
The apostle Peter compares the literal heavens and earth (2Pe 3:5) with the symbolic heavens and earth (2Pe 3:7). “The heavens” of verse 7 do not mean Jehovah’s own dwelling place, the place of his throne in the heavens. Jehovah’s heavens cannot be shaken. Neither is “the earth” in the same verse the literal planet earth, for Jehovah says that he has established the earth firmly. (Ps 78:69; 119:90; 104:5; Ec 1:4) Yet, God says that he will shake both the heavens and the earth (Hag 2:21; Heb 12:26), that the heavens and earth will flee away before him, and that new heavens and a new earth will be established. (2Pe 3:13; Re 20:11; 21:1) It is evident that “heavens” is symbolic and that “earth” here has symbolic reference to a society of people living on the earth, just as at Psalm 96:1
The connection of the “heavens” with ruling power aids in understanding the meaning of the expression “new heavens and a new earth” found at Isaiah 65:17; 66:22 and quoted by the apostle Peter at 2 Peter 3:13. Observing such relationship, M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (1891, Vol. IV, p. 122) comments: “In Isa. lxv, 17, a new heaven and a new earth signify a new government, new kingdom, new people.”
Even as the “earth” can refer to a society of people (Ps 96:1), so, too, “heavens” can symbolize the superior ruling power or government over such “earth.” The prophecy presenting the promise of “new heavens and a new earth,” given through Isaiah, was one dealing initially with the restoration of Israel from Babylonian exile. Upon the Israelites’ return to their homeland, they entered into a new system of things. Cyrus the Great was used prominently by God in bringing about that restoration. Back in Jerusalem, Zerubbabel (a descendant of David) served as governor, and Joshua as high priest. In harmony with Jehovah’s purpose, this new governmental arrangement, or “new heavens,” directed and supervised the subject people. (2Ch 36:23; Hag 1:1, 14) Thereby, as verse 18 of Isaiah chapter 65 foretold, Jerusalem became “a cause for joyfulness and her people a cause for exultation.”
Peter’s quotation, however, shows that a future fulfillment was to be anticipated, on the basis of God’s promise. (2Pe 3:13) Since God’s promise in this case relates to the presence of Christ Jesus, as shown at verse 4, the “new heavens and a new earth” must relate to God’s Messianic Kingdom and its rule over obedient subjects. By his resurrection and ascension to God’s right hand, Christ Jesus became “higher than the heavens” (Heb 7:26) in that he was thereby placed “far above every government and authority and power and lordship . . . not only in this system of things, but also in that to come.”—Eph 1:19-21; Mt 28:18.
Anyway, enough of this.
I just want to know what people think of scriptures such as Pr 2:21,22. I'm wondering what people think of Jesus words at Mat 5:5?
A scripture that will probably come up later:
1 JOHN 2:17
“Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.”Hi,
As I read the Word the earth will not be consumed with fire but purified by fire. Is 24, Revelation 16 and other places show the severe fate she will suffer before she is brought back to glory.Hi david,
God always leaves a remnant. There must be the unsaved still present during the Millenium or the saved rulers will have no subjects.Right, so you're saying the “unsaved” who survive through armageddon will be ruled over by “rulers.” These will be subjects on earth of the heavenly rulers? Is that what you're saying?
Hi david,
2Tim 2.11f
” ..For if we died with him we shall also live with him
If we endure we shall also reign with him”
Rev 20 .4
” And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them and judgement was given to them.”Ps 2 speaks of the rebellion by the nations at the end of the Millenial reign as also described in Rev 20.8f. The rebels surely are not the ruling saved in their heavenly bodies[1 Cor 15.54]
Hey Nick,
I'm more so looking for a yes or no answer to my question, rather than scriptures that talk about those who go to heaven.What I'm asking you is this, simply this:
PROVERBS 2:21-22
“For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.”“the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it.”
HOW DOES THIS FIT IN WITH YOUR BELIEFS? Any comments on this scripture, this one, right here. What does it mean to you?
I seriously am now lost as to what you believe on this.Hi david,
Matt 11.29
“Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble of heart and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light”
1Jn 3.2
” Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when he appears, we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is”The Spirit of God born into us produces in us the character of the Son of God, he who is meek and humble of heart.
Those in him will inherit the earth. They will be meek and humble as he is.
Rev 21.3″…Behold the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them..”In the JW forum, Nick said:
“I am cautious to assume agreement in any discussion because. . . .”
And here, you seem to give the impression of the words in 1 Jn 3:2:
“it has not appeared as yet what we will be.”
So you don't know for sure, or don't want to really take a stand for any belief because that would mean you might be wrong. How convenient.
So that is why you've been so evasive in answering what you believe about the future of the earth and mankind?Does Jehovah actually sit on a throne? A throne is a human thing that Jehovah uses so that we understand. The description of the seraphs as having feet, wings, and so forth, must be understood to be symbolic, their likeness to the form of earthly creatures being only representative of abilities they have or of functions they perform, just as God often speaks symbolically of himself as having eyes, ears, and other human features. Showing that no man knows the form of God, the apostle John says: “Beloved ones, now we are children of God, but as yet it has not been made manifest what we shall be. We do know that whenever he is made manifest we shall be like him, because we shall see him just as he is.”—1Jo 3:2
Or will God take on human form? Is that what you think? Is that why you quoted Rev 21: “…and He will dwell among them..”?The Bible also says:
1 CORINTHIANS 15:49
“And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one.”PHILIPPIANS 3:21
“who will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body according to the operation of the power that he has, even to subject all things to himself.”2 PETER 1:4
“Through these things he has freely given us the precious and very grand promises, that through these YOU may become sharers in divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world through lust.”I've never had to prove that people go to heaven before. I'm still struggling with the thought that this is some kind of “trick” on your part in order for me to convince myself that all good people go to heaven.
But I really don't think you'd do that.
So, I'll be back
with some scriptures.Quote (david @ Sep. 01 2005,12:24) In the JW forum, Nick said:
“I am cautious to assume agreement in any discussion because. . . .”
And here, you seem to give the impression of the words in 1 Jn 3:2:
“it has not appeared as yet what we will be.”
So you don't know for sure, or don't want to really take a stand for any belief because that would mean you might be wrong. How convenient.
So that is why you've been so evasive in answering what you believe about the future of the earth and mankind?Does Jehovah actually sit on a throne? A throne is a human thing that Jehovah uses so that we understand. The description of the seraphs as having feet, wings, and so forth, must be understood to be symbolic, their likeness to the form of earthly creatures being only representative of abilities they have or of functions they perform, just as God often speaks symbolically of himself as having eyes, ears, and other human features. Showing that no man knows the form of God, the apostle John says: “Beloved ones, now we are children of God, but as yet it has not been made manifest what we shall be. We do know that whenever he is made manifest we shall be like him, because we shall see him just as he is.”—1Jo 3:2
Or will God take on human form? Is that what you think? Is that why you quoted Rev 21: “…and He will dwell among them..”?The Bible also says:
1 CORINTHIANS 15:49
“And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one.”PHILIPPIANS 3:21
“who will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body according to the operation of the power that he has, even to subject all things to himself.”2 PETER 1:4
“Through these things he has freely given us the precious and very grand promises, that through these YOU may become sharers in divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world through lust.”I've never had to prove that people go to heaven before. I'm still struggling with the thought that this is some kind of “trick” on your part in order for me to convince myself that all good people go to heaven.
But I really don't think you'd do that.
So, I'll be back
with some scriptures.
Hi david,
Have you seen Seraphim and Cherubim so that you speak so confidently of their form and nature? Or are you spiritualising again to fit your doctrinal template?Hi David,
Ezekiel saw the throne of God and described it and the beings with it in great detail in Ez 1 -10. Isaiah saw a vision too in Is 6 and so did John in Revelation. I accept their witness of the throne being more than just a symbol of authority. A crown can be such a symbol too but it also can be just a crown.Nick, why are the angels pictured as having wings? Do they fly around like the birds? Is that how they get around Nick? Or could it be that picturing them that way will help our limited human brains to comprehend something?
No Nick, I obviously have never seen Seraphim or Cherubim. I have seen common sence and the wisdom to compare scriptures. And they are beautiful things.
Jehovah, whom even “the heaven of the heavens” cannot contain, does not have to sit on a literal throne or chair. (1Ki 8:27) He does, however, picture his royal authority and sovereignty by the symbol of a throne.
THINGS TO CONSIDER:
Jehovah extended his throne to earth in a typical, specific way in his dealings with the sons of Israel. Since the one ruling in Israel was to be “a king whom Jehovah your God will choose,” who would rule in Jehovah’s name over Jehovah’s people and according to Jehovah’s law, his throne was really “Jehovah’s throne.”—De 17:14-18; 1Ch 29:23.
Besides his kingly identity with the royal line of Judah, Jehovah was enthroned in Israel in another sense as well. As Jeremiah expressed it: “There is the glorious throne on high from the start; it is the place of our sanctuary.” (Jer 17:12) Jehovah was spoken of as “sitting upon the cherubs” that were on the propitiatory cover of the ark of the testimony in the sanctuary. (Ex 25:22; 1Sa 4:4) The divine presence was symbolized by a cloud that reportedly produced a miraculous light that later Jewish writers called the Shekhi·nah´. (Le 16:2) While Jeremiah foretold the absence of the ark of the covenant when Israel would be restored from Babylon, this would not mean that Jehovah no longer purposed to be enthroned at his center of worship. As He said: “In that time they will call Jerusalem the throne of Jehovah.” (Jer 3:16, 17) Ezekiel’s restoration prophecies are in agreement, for in his vision of Jehovah’s temple in which no ark of the covenant was seen, he was told: “Son of man, this [temple] is the place of my throne.”—Eze 43:7.
Anyway, it seems we're quite a bit off topic.
It seemed to me you were using 1 John 3:2 as a way of saying: 'We just don't know,' and hence, that's why you didn't really respond to my statements. So, I mentioned a couple of things and now I regret it. I really would like to explore this topic of the earth in more detail.Thankyou for your thoughts
david
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
