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Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2008,20:58) Humanity is a vine and like any vinedresser or gardener, he prunes the vine so it will be more fruitful. If he left the dying branches, then what about the poor souls that will be planted there. God often commanded Israel to snap of a whole branch and got angry when they left some of it to grow again. It's easy to judge KJ, but if you saw the whole tree, then you would see that it is mercy to prune the tree so that more souls will be in a position or culture with more blessing.
Also all problems of man come from man.
God is only trying to keep the whole tree alive for the age. If he didn't prune it, the whole thing might have died a long time ago.
Luke 23:31
For if men do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?”We may be in the times when the tree is dry and we do see all manner of evil and suffering. I don't blame God for one bit of that.
He gave us a beautiful planet that was originally a paradise. God wasn't the one to pollute and destroy it.
BTW, that picture is heart wrenching. What are we going to do to help?
Whether or not god is capable of anything he does not seem willing to do anything about suffering. Rather, you are justifying his genocide. The crazy German with the silly moustache would be proud of you.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 21 2008,20:58) BTW, that picture is heart wrenching. What are we going to do to help?
I volunteer to organize any effort!Or I can list several humanitarian groups you can donate to towards world hunger.
I encourage everyone to give to their local food banks on a REGULAR BASIS. Nationwide the food banks are running low as our economy continues to suffer. Especially now as school is beginning to start-up again and regular meals need to be prepared. Living off of gardens and fruit for the summer is coming to a close for most states (unless you can your goods which I'm learning the lost art).
Not3 you might like to list some of the non-religious ones so we can know that the money is not being wasted on spreading 'the word' but is going as efficiently as possible to actually helping people in need.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 24 2008,16:03) Not3 you might like to list some of the non-religious ones so we can know that the money is not being wasted on spreading 'the word' but is going as efficiently as possible to actually helping people in need. Stuart
Was this just a jab because you saw the opportunity? Or are you serious? There are plenty of non-religious groups out there that are doing wonders to feed the hungry. Are you interested in donating?Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 25 2008,05:10) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 24 2008,16:03) Not3 you might like to list some of the non-religious ones so we can know that the money is not being wasted on spreading 'the word' but is going as efficiently as possible to actually helping people in need. Stuart
Was this just a jab because you saw the opportunity? Or are you serious? There are plenty of non-religious groups out there that are doing wonders to feed the hungry. Are you interested in donating?
Yes it was a jab because I saw the opportunity. A bad habit I have caught off the moderators.I do happen to think it is true though.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 24 2008,16:03) Not3 you might like to list some of the non-religious ones so we can know that the money is not being wasted on spreading 'the word' but is going as efficiently as possible to actually helping people in need. Stuart
Hi Stu,
I have to partially agree with you.
When someone gives money to a church, 90%
of the money goes to supporting the church. Only 10% goes to helping the needy. By most charitable standards that is very inefficient use of funds.However there are Christian based charities other than the church.
I donate time and money to a group called the Lord's locker which helps to feed and clothe the needy in our community.
85% of all donations go to those in need. The overhead of 15% is needed just for the building and utilities.My wife and I also help to support two children in Africa through a Christian organization. However these two children are not even coached to become Christians. One has no particular belief other than the spirits of the forest, and the other is a muslim.
You can not solve the problem but you can get involved.
Tim
While I agree 100% with being careful with who you donate your money to (I like to see around 90% reach the needy) I like to see those administering the aid present to gospel (but not require anything from them). I do not want to see them “preach” at them but let them know that the aid is from people who love them and are following Jesus. I'm a firm believer in what you do, speaks much louder then what you say.
My opinion – Wm
What if you as a non-JW who does not have stupid fantasies about Jewish blood-rites gives to a charity that turns out to be a JW charity that refuses blood transfusions and people die as a result? A charity website that claims the charity has no ties to any religion must be the preferred option. I never heard of a non-religious charity compromising the care they romised because they were hung up on issues of doctrine. The Catholic church could do better by leaving some current humanitarian situations. The pope should keep his gob shut, certainly!
It looks like you are careful about it, but I think people offering charity in third-world countries for 'followers of Jesus' should not be allowed into those countries at all. If it really is a gift, why should there be clauses attached?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 26 2008,20:28) If it really is a gift, why should there be clauses attached? Stuart
Hi Stu,Only to insure that the gift is really being used for it's intended purpose. Not to support the ruling class or army.
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Aug. 26 2008,22:49) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 26 2008,20:28) If it really is a gift, why should there be clauses attached? Stuart
Hi Stu,Only to insure that the gift is really being used for it's intended purpose. Not to support the ruling class or army.
Tim
If that gift is to render the most effective care for people then absolutely.Stuart
Quote (Kimba08 @ Aug. 07 2008,03:52) T8: This is difficult understand I know, My head aches are back but was just talking to Stu as well so who knows?
I did like your and others idea of Heaven and earth being created at an unknown time preiod prior to Day 1's Light and day 4's Sun “the Greater light” but All was dark? As I stated in Second post of this thread, there is no Food chain with-out Light?
Quote:(T8)
If the earth is in darkness and the sun is already there, then the atmosphere could be thick with dust maybe from eruptions or comet collisions. When light eventually penetrates the earths atmosphere then there is light is there not? From there you have day and night and a planet more conducive to life and a kind of new beginning.Sorry but Again:The Sun was not there, as not created until 4th day?”The Greater Light”
All good ideas on Comet bombardent and Volcanoes in early Earth but I submit That the term Earth here has more than one defintion and this Leads to the confusion. AS does The name the “Heaven” Why is it here in Genesis The Heaven(Singular use) not the Standard “The Heavens” Plural use not given? God created The “Heaven” Meaning the Spiritual Universe(Single Spiritual universe as there is only one and thus the Singular use of Heaven rather than Heavens Plural use for “Sky and Stars Above”) and the Earth, not Planet Earth but Meaning All the Physical Universe. It was “void”, having no energy or matter and “without Form” the missing Matter.
Then God introduced the Energy and Matter in his command “Let there be light!”
Light is Energy and at start of Big Bang all that could exist was Energy or Light as Tempuratures were so high Matter could not form until much cooling occured so God's Command was adhered to and No matter appeared for quite some time? So this was the Light god Seeded the Void universe with. then after cooling /The matter condensed and Form took shape with Matter so EArth now was no longer Void or without form. Tough stuff I know but What do you think of My Take? … KAB-63
It actually doesn't say that the sun and moon were not there, but that light came to the earth.The very first statement is that God created the heaven and earth, sun is part of the heavens as are all celestial bodies. So they are already there before the 6 stages.
Just preceding the “And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light” part, the focus is the earth. This is traditionally taken to be the creation of the sun, but that is not the case because it was created according to the beginning verse and all it is saying is that light bathed the earth. Also take into consideration that the earth was created in the beginning. This means that pre-darkness, there could have been any number of ages (eons) before that.
The idea of a 6000 year old earth and universe cannot be found in the bible, but that won't stop people from arguing that the bible teaches this.
We also know that darkness can come from a lack of sun but also an abundance of debri in the atmosphere. Volcanic eruptions and other events can easily cause darkness on the face of the earth.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Aug. 25 2008,22:49) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 24 2008,16:03) Not3 you might like to list some of the non-religious ones so we can know that the money is not being wasted on spreading 'the word' but is going as efficiently as possible to actually helping people in need. Stuart
Hi Stu,
I have to partially agree with you.
When someone gives money to a church, 90%
of the money goes to supporting the church. Only 10% goes to helping the needy. By most charitable standards that is very inefficient use of funds.However there are Christian based charities other than the church.
I donate time and money to a group called the Lord's locker which helps to feed and clothe the needy in our community.
85% of all donations go to those in need. The overhead of 15% is needed just for the building and utilities.My wife and I also help to support two children in Africa through a Christian organization. However these two children are not even coached to become Christians. One has no particular belief other than the spirits of the forest, and the other is a muslim.
You can not solve the problem but you can get involved.
Tim
I also agree that much is wasted by church systems, that is one reason I am not a fan of them. It is better to give to people directly if you can. Jesus said “if you have 2 coats and your brother has none, give him one of the jackets”, something like that anyway.Giving is best done in a practical way. Giving to a system means that you are often giving to run that system.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2009,10:14) Quote (Kimba08 @ Aug. 07 2008,03:52) T8: This is difficult understand I know, My head aches are back but was just talking to Stu as well so who knows?
I did like your and others idea of Heaven and earth being created at an unknown time preiod prior to Day 1's Light and day 4's Sun “the Greater light” but All was dark? As I stated in Second post of this thread, there is no Food chain with-out Light?
Quote:(T8)
If the earth is in darkness and the sun is already there, then the atmosphere could be thick with dust maybe from eruptions or comet collisions. When light eventually penetrates the earths atmosphere then there is light is there not? From there you have day and night and a planet more conducive to life and a kind of new beginning.Sorry but Again:The Sun was not there, as not created until 4th day?”The Greater Light”
All good ideas on Comet bombardent and Volcanoes in early Earth but I submit That the term Earth here has more than one defintion and this Leads to the confusion. AS does The name the “Heaven” Why is it here in Genesis The Heaven(Singular use) not the Standard “The Heavens” Plural use not given? God created The “Heaven” Meaning the Spiritual Universe(Single Spiritual universe as there is only one and thus the Singular use of Heaven rather than Heavens Plural use for “Sky and Stars Above”) and the Earth, not Planet Earth but Meaning All the Physical Universe. It was “void”, having no energy or matter and “without Form” the missing Matter.
Then God introduced the Energy and Matter in his command “Let there be light!”
Light is Energy and at start of Big Bang all that could exist was Energy or Light as Tempuratures were so high Matter could not form until much cooling occured so God's Command was adhered to and No matter appeared for quite some time? So this was the Light god Seeded the Void universe with. then after cooling /The matter condensed and Form took shape with Matter so EArth now was no longer Void or without form. Tough stuff I know but What do you think of My Take? … KAB-63
It actually doesn't say that the sun and moon were not there, but that light came to the earth.The very first statement is that God created the heaven and earth, sun is part of the heavens as are all celestial bodies. So they are already there before the 6 stages.
Just preceding the “And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light” part, the focus is the earth. This is traditionally taken to be the creation of the sun, but that is not the case because it was created according to the beginning verse and all it is saying is that light bathed the earth. Also take into consideration that the earth was created in the beginning. This means that pre-darkness, there could have been any number of ages (eons) before that.
The idea of a 6000 year old earth and universe cannot be found in the bible, but that won't stop people from arguing that the bible teaches this.
We also know that darkness can come from a lack of sun but also an abundance of debri in the atmosphere. Volcanic eruptions and other events can easily cause darkness on the face of the earth.
Did you post this to appear impressive? You have not answered the question. Does Kimba's 'take' about the timescale of the condensation of matter from the scientific cosmological account fit the mythological account in scripture or not?Stuart
Quote (Kimba08 @ Aug. 05 2008,10:49) Genesis
“1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”I theorize that the word “EARTH” actually meant not our Planet but the Total of the “Physical Unuiverse” THEN
And “HEAVEN” was the “Spiritual Universe” Possilby also known or called the “WATERS” later on in verse
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep
Here Again EARTH is ALL the Physical Universe Which had nothing but space, no matter or energy ie “Darkness on face of the Deep”
Then: And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.Light is Energy >> IS this the Begining of our Universe? with God's Command “LET there be light!”? IS THIS “THE BIG BANG?”
So, I read through some of this thread and ya'll are crazy
just kidding!I do have a totally different hypothesis, though, as to that light on day one.
For starters:
In the beginning was the word…”Let there be light”
and the word was with GOD…and the “Light” was with God
and the word was God…and the word “Light” was the God of GOD
The Light was the firstborn of all creation, see Col. 1
For more on that see “The Light” thread.
LU
Kathi,
Is your idea an hypothesis? Or are you 100% sure God whispered this truth in your ear?
Just wondering,
MandyMandy,
Things that I am 100% sure about regarding that experience are:I was challenged to know the meaning of the term “firstborn of all creation” by some JW's. I remember not seeing that verse before. I had always thought that the Son of God had eternally existed.
I surrendered my previous views on the trinity doctrine if they were not accurate. I just wanted truth.
I began reading the gospels like there was a different emphasis that I had been missing, a different perspective…one that the Son of God was soooo apparent as a Son who was begotten of God and that was referred to as God but not equal to His Father and was a Son who took an active part in creation.
I was studying the Bible for many hours a day and not seeking extra-Biblical literature.
I wondered if I was going to have to attend a different type of church than my family since my husband was and still is a Trinitarian. I decided that as long as the church believes in the inerrancies of the scriptures, I could still attend. Also, my husband was the spiritual leader in the home and I continue going to church with him.
After 1 month of seeing the Son of God as actually born of God (not created) before creation, I was still studying alot but took a break and was teaching my son and reviewing the days of creation. I asked him what happened on day one. He said that God said “Let there be Light” and at that moment without question, I heard a whisper in my left ear say “You are the Light of the world” and I paused and just thought…WOW! How simple, could that be when the Son was born? I have tested that connection and have peace with the understanding that yes, the terms “firstborn of all creation” and “Let there be Light” are related. It has helped everything come together for me in a way that the trinity doctrine did not.
That was about 16 years ago and I haven't found any reason to disprove it.
That is my story, thanks for asking
Kathi
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