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Kevin:
The Moon Like “Man in the
“Why ask silly questions? … KAB-63
T8:
This is difficult understand I know, My head aches are back but was just talking to Stu as well so who knows?
I did like your and others idea of Heaven and earth being created at an unknown time preiod prior to Day 1's Light and day 4's Sun “the Greater light” but All was dark? As I stated in Second post of this thread, there is no Food chain with-out Light?
Quote:(T8)
If the earth is in darkness and the sun is already there, then the atmosphere could be thick with dust maybe from eruptions or comet collisions. When light eventually penetrates the earths atmosphere then there is light is there not? From there you have day and night and a planet more conducive to life and a kind of new beginning.Sorry but Again:The Sun was not there, as not created until 4th day?”The Greater Light”
All good ideas on Comet bombardent and Volcanoes in early Earth but I submit That the term Earth here has more than one defintion and this Leads to the confusion. AS does The name the “Heaven” Why is it here in Genesis The Heaven(Singular use) not the Standard “The Heavens” Plural use not given? God created The “Heaven” Meaning the Spiritual Universe(Single Spiritual universe as there is only one and thus the Singular use of Heaven rather than Heavens Plural use for “Sky and Stars Above”) and the Earth, not Planet Earth but Meaning All the Physical Universe. It was “void”, having no energy or matter and “without Form” the missing Matter.
Then God introduced the Energy and Matter in his command “Let there be light!”
Light is Energy and at start of Big Bang all that could exist was Energy or Light as Tempuratures were so high Matter could not form until much cooling occured so God's Command was adhered to and No matter appeared for quite some time? So this was the Light god Seeded the Void universe with. then after cooling /The matter condensed and Form took shape with Matter so EArth now was no longer Void or without form. Tough stuff I know but What do you think of My Take? … KAB-63Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 07 2008,02:07) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 05 2008,18:19) Hey Kevin, Quote There is, unless you are not willing to go beyond “Godditit”. Just take some time to research it. Just don't go running to ID or creationism sites which receive no valid peer review.
Oh, I've looked. That's why I've decided there is plenty of evidence, proof, speculation out there on both sides. The Creationist can be just as compelling as the Bang guys. It really matters who you want to believe and who you think has better credentials.
The reason you find it compelling is that you have a predisposition towards their viewpoint.
So?Kevin, there are a gazillion different religions out there for the choosing, all of them claim to give peace and some form of everlasting life. What harm is there in believing it? I think somewhere a long the line it became too important to you to find absolute truth. And when you became disheartened, you gave up. That's my take, forgive me if I'm wrong. I come from the position that you don't have to give up just because there are major holes in your belief system. We are only human. Will will not know for sure until that Day what is required fully. But until then, don't you think it pleases the Almighty just to know we have faith and care about one another, and encourage one another to keep on in their particular brand of faith?
Mandy
Quote (Kimba08 @ Aug. 06 2008,09:56) Kevin: The Moon Like “Man in the
“Why ask silly questions? … KAB-63
Because its not a silly question. The moon is not a “light”, it merely reflects the light from the sun.Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 06 2008,11:21) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 07 2008,02:07) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 05 2008,18:19) Hey Kevin, Quote There is, unless you are not willing to go beyond “Godditit”. Just take some time to research it. Just don't go running to ID or creationism sites which receive no valid peer review.
Oh, I've looked. That's why I've decided there is plenty of evidence, proof, speculation out there on both sides. The Creationist can be just as compelling as the Bang guys. It really matters who you want to believe and who you think has better credentials.
The reason you find it compelling is that you have a predisposition towards their viewpoint.
So?Kevin, there are a gazillion different religions out there for the choosing, all of them claim to give peace and some form of everlasting life. What harm is there in believing it?
None, but shouldn't we encourage others to stop believing in myths as an answer if science provides viable alternatives?
As far as believing in certain things, and saying their religion gives them peace, then Christians and Muslims should cease proselytizing. There should be no more efforts to convert others to their religion. Jews don't do it, why should Christians and Muslims?
Quote I think somewhere a long the line it became too important to you to find absolute truth. It may seem that way, but finding “absolute” truth in the bible is like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack. Its not possible as the last 2000 years has shown. In order to find this “truth” you must separate fact from fiction and at this point, its not possible.
Quote And when you became disheartened, you gave up. Perhaps, but what I gave up on was that the bible was an accurate viewpoint of God. Nothing wrong with that because people do it every day. There is absolutely nothing beyond the book to verify its claims are true.
Quote That's my take, forgive me if I'm wrong. It is your opinion and we all know that people will form opinions on what we do. I don't hold any grudges against people for not being able to understand what led me to where I am because I was where you are at one time.
But to me, you took the easier route. Some time back you questioned the bible and its words and often used the phrase “dried ink”. However, I see that you have now slipped back into accepting it all — or so it seems — and that, to me, is the path of least resistance. That's OK as well, but try to understand that not everyone sees the bible as a work of infallibility, straight from the mind of God. I personally see it as a record of conflicting Jewish viewpoints over a span of their history. To me, it is a long string of parables and very little of it is to be taken literally. I also believe that the Jesus stories are parables as well. Again, that is just my opinion.
Quote I come from the position that you don't have to give up just because there are major holes in your belief system. I understand, but you should also understand that I feel differently. If much is in doubt, then how do we know which parts are right? How do we know that the books found in the bible are any better or worse or “true” than those that were not accepted. The ones who formulated the canon had their own agenda and were not interested in providing texts that would not forward their viewpoint. In fact, they made sure they destroyed the works of others at every opportunity. Aren't you glad people don't do that today (or do it as often)?
We'll never know if the things recorded in the bible was the truth or just what the compilers wanted us to believe.
Quote We are only human. Will will not know for sure until that Day what is required fully. But until then, don't you think it pleases the Almighty just to know we have faith and care about one another, and encourage one another to keep on in their particular brand of faith?
Think about that. What if your brand of faith is incorrect and really ends up promoting actions that dishonor God? I personally believe that the OT dishonors God, as does the book of Revelation.Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 07 2008,06:31) I personally believe that the OT dishonors God, as does the book of Revelation.
I'm afraid I have to agree with kejohn on this.
I think that parts of the OT actually blaspheme God. Some day I suspect that He will ask us why we chose to believe that garbage about Him.Tim
To be fair, Mandy hasn't really said what she currently believes. (I could be wrong, as I only check the forum on occasion.)
Frankly, I can't tell where she is coming from these days. Though she does not post outright skepticism, sentiments like, “…you don't have to give up just because there are major holes in your belief system,” don't exactly sound like the words of a fervent Christian believer.
Mandy, please clarify where you stand these days, (if you so desire).
For example, do you believe:
1. Every word of scripture.
2. That Jesus is the only way.
3. That Satan is the inspiration behind all other (non-Christian) religions, (i.e. that no other religion outside of Christianity is legitimate).Your answer will help clear up a lot of confusion.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Aug. 07 2008,07:17) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 07 2008,06:31) I personally believe that the OT dishonors God, as does the book of Revelation.
I'm afraid I have to agree with kejohn on this.
I think that parts of the OT actually blaspheme God. Some day I suspect that He will ask us why we chose to believe that garbage about Him.Tim
I agree more so with you Tim, That “Parts” of the OT dishonor God Sadly, much is to say for, how do you here a call that was never meant to come to the ears,
And how has it affected us today?Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
Jhn 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
thats got..o get anyone around the throat
a single handed, single lined Law, from a stupid head, which is surly out to create the bible on using the setting up scriptures…They knew what they were doing?
Money Talks., even to this day.
charityI know much of what went on in the OT gives cause for the “gentiles to blaspheme God” so I guess I could accept He is dishonored by association but fail to see God's actions as being anything less then honorable.
Wm
Dear Kevin and Mandy
Too Two beloved
Faith is good; we can’t live with out its Hope to repair
“A true friend stabs you in the front.” – Oscar Wilde….
Then _ charity _ loves you to death!….
“The best way to predict the future is to invent it. — Alan Kay”….
We Are that invented future….-charity
those”Things writen” molded our worlds
Not because we asked them too!
and those things that need to be said
shall alter the future..with a few good men and woman?
Love takes us away…Mind soul and spirit..
Love is blinding and friendship doesn’t want to see it…. The friend that keeps you blind is enjoying all the attention….that’s even as Gospel?….
Love! Love! Love! Where is your hearts gone?
each one has there path to the same end -charityHi Wm.
I too fail to see God's actions as anything but honorable.
But that is where I differ from what the bible describes God as doing.Tell me, do you think that sexism is honorable? What about slavery, and genocide.
Do you think they are honorable? If you do just because the God described in the OT
condoned them, then we have different ideas of what honor is.I however choose to believe that God never condoned them to begin with,
in spite of what the OT says.
Just my decision and opinion, nothing more.Blessings,
Tim
Tim
Tim,
Does the OT condone divorce? What reason did Jesus give for it being allowed? The OT gives instructions for handling situations which due to the hardness of man's heart are going to happen despite having God's approval, or the lack there of.In my opinion as soon as you begin eroding the scriptures you step on a slippery slope, losing your foundation and given time you will be left doing what is right in your own eyes, but that is your choice, hope it turns out well for you (no sarcasm).
Wm
The Bible OT is at liberty and IT SHALL condone, for after all it has created, and that be most things!
Marriage unto divorce….LEGAL EGAELS, that bone worth the pickon.
Contempt with ownership documents
Adam just Tax's the Air we breath, as the first Man to say I hear from God? -charityQuote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 07 2008,11:32) What part of the OT dishonors God, specifically Wm
HI wm..The Stroke of the scribes Pen, wherever they MAKE God responsible for there own actions of onslaught
Even David as youngster arived on earth to defend his breath within, and Live, and new and admitted he had been a man of War….for servival with out choice, and his God Favoured him to Live thru the violence on earth as a great warrior defendant.Find the stirrers, and the oppressed, by letters written,
Judge wither the bible is asumned true or Not?
Natures may be revealed.
yet Not easy,
but I believe it possible, with Patience,
even if Kejohn may not believe it is able to interrupt
I have Faith it will be all revealed. in time
Quote The bible writers don't know 1/100th of what we know today, so the various creation myths are the product of the imagination. Although science and understanding have grown, so have our egos. 100 years ago, many would have said just as above. 100 years ago, we “knew” the universe didn't have a beginning. Science “knew” the Bible was wrong when it said: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” And today, science knows the first verse of the Bible doesn't contradict true science. Who knows what science will know tomorrow?
Regarding the question raised, about letting there be light….
If we take the view that we're witnessing events from the earth, (as an earth observer) even though there were none back then, then, the order of events and of creation agree with science. When it says “let there be light” it appears that light began to shine through the clouds, as the atmosphere thinned. The sun is much older than the earth, and light would have existed before this happened, but it seems the events are being described as if to someone who would have witnessed them on earth. And, when we look at it that way, the order of scientific creation, is actually correct, and miraculously so, just like that first verse, that was written when no one had any clue about these things.david
David
Your view does explain alot THANKS! Closest I've seen Yet. Just one last Flaw I have yet seen answered and I have no Idea how it works either? Why is God in Day 4 creating the 2 lights one to govern the day and one to govern the night? This implies the Sun and Moon to me. So where is light coming threw your primorial clouds if no Sun yet created? I truly don't know this so I'm not being critical but you having the best answer yet on the first few days, what is your explaination if possible of this?
If the Earth was Created before Day1 Then the Sun and moon per our scientific view today where all created together in a condensing bombardment of proto-planets?
Is it your view, If this is true and the creation of the 2 lights was just them becoming visible after the clouds disapated. It does seem to help place events correctly. Thank-you my Head-aches seem to be lessening. Almost ALL gone now … KAB-67Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 06 2008,18:32) What part of the OT dishonors God, specifically Wm
The list would stretch for pages. But let's start with one, and go from there.Exo 21:20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.
Exo 21:21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.So, do you think a God of love would say it is OK for a slave to beaten to death as long as the death does not occur for a day or two? I mean, after all, a slave is just property after all, less than human.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 07 2008,12:32) Tim,
Does the OT condone divorce? Wm
Of course it does.
But I do not understand what that has to do with
the things that disturb me the most.Why do you think it is honorable to stone your family to death because they discussed another God with someone?
Why do you think it is honorable to stone someone to death for something as menial as picking up sticks?
Why do you think that it is honorable to stone your child to death because he talked back to you?
To even insinuate that God commanded these things, dishoners God.
Tim
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