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Quote (Stu @ April 01 2009,21:00) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2009,11:10) Hi WIT, Even we sin in unknown ways so in what way are we able to judge scripture?
Scripture is factually incorrect and has no humanity. It is unfit for human consumption.Stuart
Stu, you need to do some research and try not let your bias get the better of you. You are just dumbing yourself down every time you act this way.Not all scripture can be tested they way many would like, but prophecy, history, and archaeology can be proven in hindsight, and we are in that position to look back and judge what is written in those 3 fields within scripture.
- Archaeologists have found the scriptures to be accurate.
- Many historical records have been proven, but nothing has turned out to be incorrect, historically speaking.
- Prophecies have come to pass. How do you explain what many thought was impossible. i.e., Israel becoming a nation and speaking Hebrew (an ancient language), and reversing desertification. These 3 things have never happened with any culture before perhaps with the exception of reversing deserts. What other culture and language was resurrected more than 2000 years later?
Even today, Israel still sees miracles. Read about the 6 day war in 1967. Out numbered 30 to 1, everyone thought it was game over for them, yet they won the war in 6 days and took Jerusalem which BTW is another prophecy.
You can't explain it. All that you can do in your defence is to perhaps demean and ridicule it. But it was all written thousands of years ago and we have the luxury of reading things that hadn't happened when they were written and then looking back to see when they came to pass.
t8
Quote Stu, you need to do some research and try not let your bias get the better of you. You are just dumbing yourself down every time you act this way.
I feel I am being educated in the scriptures, t8. Every bit more I read shows me that they are historical fiction with nonsense added, the mythology of the ignorant ancients, hungry for knowledge and political power but without the means to find out much about the physical world.Quote Not all scripture can be tested they way many would like, but prophecy, history, and archaeology can be proven in hindsight, and we are in that position to look back and judge what is written in those 3 fields within scripture.
# Archaeologists have found the scriptures to be accurate.
# Many historical records have been proven, but nothing has turned out to be incorrect, historically speaking.
There is such a place as Jerusalem. There never was an exodus. There never was a Noachian flood. It is historical fiction: a fictional story placed on the background of a real geography, although you better not ask too hard where the biblical Mt. Sinai was.Quote # Prophecies have come to pass. How do you explain what many thought was impossible. i.e., Israel becoming a nation and speaking Hebrew (an ancient language), and reversing desertification. These 3 things have never happened with any culture before perhaps with the exception of reversing deserts. What other culture and language was resurrected more than 2000 years later?
What is special about it taking 2000 years to get planning permission, albeit by force?Quote Even today, Israel still sees miracles. Read about the 6 day war in 1967. Out numbered 30 to 1, everyone thought it was game over for them, yet they won the war in 6 days and took Jerusalem which BTW is another prophecy.
Having Uncle Sam feeding you technology to fight third-world countries is hardly what you would call a ‘miracle’.Quote You can't explain it. All that you can do in your defence is to perhaps demean and ridicule it. But it was all written thousands of years ago and we have the luxury of reading things that hadn't happened when they were written and then looking back to see when they came to pass.
Not so fast, cowboy. Biblical prophecy is so waffly, requiring interpretation that changes the names of the biblical action figures involved and the signs described, and so many have worked hard since to ‘fulfil’ prophecy that I think you cannot say that there is anything prophetic about any of it. The christian’s favourite, in Isaiah 53, has been twisted out of context from a discussion of Israel as a whipping horse of a nation to some kind of messianic prophecy. The language is highly poetic and short on detail but it does clearly state that the servant of god is the nation of Israel, not some individual. There is nothing astonishing about claiming that people will treat Israel poorly, then or today. For me, real prophecy is being able to predict the exact percentage of the sun that will be covered in a solar eclipse happening a hundred years from now. Your god is a little short on detail and accuracy. Not very omniscient, or a poor communicator, or the scriptures are blind to the future, which of course is the only reasonable conclusion.Stuart
Of course Stu, there is enough words and vain imaginations of men to answer anything that maybe true. You don't have to be that creative. e.g, are you a bad person? No because I helped an old lady across the street the other day. Your answers are just denials at best.
Daniel 12:10
Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.2 Peter 2:11-12 (King James Version)
11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;See that. The wicked actually perish from their own corruption. The wicked will not understand. And the wicked bring accusations against those that belong to the Lord. The wicked also speak evil of those things that they do not understand.
Do you think these scriptures might be describing some of your behaviour?
They are asserting nonsense. Claims made without evidence are just as easily dismissed without evidence. The evidence for, and against the historical claims of the bible are pretty clear. That exodus and the Noachian flood never happened (and those disproofs are demonstrated WITH evidence) are just two examples of biblical fallibility. One example would have done for dealing with your blind fundamentalist claim.
Stuart
Of course you have deny what scripture is saying because you find yourself at the wrong end of the consequences it announces.
If you cannot face up to it, then just deny everything and try and baffle people with some science in order to appear wise and confident and hope like hell that there isn't a just God when you die. The truth is Stu, you haven't got a clue about any of this. Many of us experience God. You have not and you know nothing about it. We talk of our experiences and how they match the experiences of others and what is written in scripture. The revelations, teachings, and experiences of God in written form align with with the experiences I have in God.
Even thousands of years later people still find the same thing.
You even admit to knowing nothing about all this Stu. That is why your judgements are nothing but rants.
You are like a man saying that figs taste like hamburgers and when you are challenged, it turns out that you have never eaten a fig.
t8
Quote Of course you have deny what scripture is saying because you find yourself at the wrong end of the consequences it announces.
I find scripture lies about reality and cannot correct its own errors. I don’t care about what it thinks will happen to me.Quote If you cannot face up to it, then just deny everything and try and baffle people with some science in order to appear wise and confident and hope like hell that there isn't a just God when you die.
I cannot help it if you find science baffling t8. I think you should make up your mind. Do you understand the fairly straightforward science I post, or not. Do you continue to advocate ignoring the findings of science that contradict your scripture, and if so how do you justify such an arbitrary way of interpreting the world? On the scripture you quote, your god is clearly not just. Why do you expect it to suddenly become so on my account?Quote The truth is Stu, you haven't got a clue about any of this. Many of us experience God. You have not and you know nothing about it. We talk of our experiences and how they match the experiences of others and what is written in scripture. The revelations, teachings, and experiences of God in written form align with with the experiences I have in God.
Your lack of comprehension of science matches you poor grasp of what makes humans believe absurd things. Why do you discount the equally vivid experiences of the fundamentalist islamist? Is he deluded? Why then are you not also deluded?Quote Even thousands of years later people still find the same thing.
Because they have applied the same dogma.Quote You even admit to knowing nothing about all this Stu. That is why your judgements are nothing but rants.
One does not have to know anything about textiles to comment on the emperor’s new clothes.Quote You are like a man saying that figs taste like hamburgers and when you are challenged, it turns out that you have never eaten a fig.
But your analogy is a category error, because figs unquestionably exist whereas your Imaginary Friend(s) cannot be shown to exist. It is more like you claiming you have seen a unicorn from side-on, but when the animal turns round it has two horns and was a gazelle all along.Stuart
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