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Genesis
“1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”I theorize that the word “EARTH” actually meant not our Planet but the Total of the “Physical Unuiverse” THEN
And “HEAVEN” was the “Spiritual Universe” Possilby also known or called the “WATERS” later on in verse
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep
Here Again EARTH is ALL the Physical Universe Which had nothing but space, no matter or energy ie “Darkness on face of the Deep”
Then: And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.Light is Energy >> IS this the Begining of our Universe? with God's Command “LET there be light!”? IS THIS “THE BIG BANG?”
I know and have read from those moderate thinkers that seem to believe that the heaven and Earth (Literal names) having formed/been created first, means this gives unlimited time prior to 6 days of Creation and helps explain the dinosaur fossil record on earth. But how did the dinosaurs eat without sunlight? IF there is no plants and therefore no plant-eater Dinosaurs and therefore then there could not be meat-eater Dinosaurs if no plant-eaters. The Whole Food chain can't support life without light or the Sun Both of which are created on first Day for light and Fourth Day for Sun, Moon and Stars. This is a tough call I think for ALL but give it a try and focus on the “Big Bang” … KAB-54
I have no problem with how the universe came into existence or how long it took. Whether it came in with a bang or just “popped” into existence, it was God who did it. I believe interpretations of scripture allow for the earth to have had an existence prior to the listed creation who knows what might of happened to the sun. I believe we should let true science speak for itself we may not understand how it fits but it will fit once everything is understood.
to be clear on one point in my opinion I do not believe true science could possibly accept the THEORY of evolution, it contradicts basic scientific and statistical principals. Species do adapt and change with their gene pool but do not change from one species to another.
With out a complete understanding of everything we will overlook possibilities we cannot even dream of.
My opinion – Wm
Well Stated WM:
I had not considered the Species jump you spoke of. Guess I must admit to knowing less about biology and Evolution than I thought. All thoughtful responses as usual with usual respect for Biblical references. I'm your cousin in a sense in name “I'm seeking the Truth” to the Edge if God allows. Sounds a triffle like Tower of Babel thinking I'm afraid, in that God may not like us nosey creations “Climbing to high into the sky?” … KAB-56
Quote (Kimba08 @ Aug. 05 2008,09:49) Genesis
“1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”I theorize that the word “EARTH” actually meant not our Planet but the Total of the “Physical Unuiverse” THEN
And “HEAVEN” was the “Spiritual Universe” Possilby also known or called the “WATERS” later on in verse
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep
Here Again EARTH is ALL the Physical Universe Which had nothing but space, no matter or energy ie “Darkness on face of the Deep”
Then: And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.Light is Energy >> IS this the Begining of our Universe? with God's Command “LET there be light!”? IS THIS “THE BIG BANG?”
That's alot of twisting and turning to try to reconcile an allegorical fantasy to the actual origins of the universe. First you says “heavens” is the “spiritual heaven” then you try to say “waters” also means the “spiritual heavens”.I think you just need to accept that this was just a fantasy story, borrowed from preceding creation myths, to try to explain the origin of the planet (which only consisted of a flat area of the middle east ), the sky, and “heaven”. The bible writers don't know 1/100th of what we know today, so the various creation myths are the product of the imagination.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 06 2008,06:22) I think you just need to accept that this was just a fantasy story, borrowed from preceding creation myths, to try to explain the origin of the planet (which only consisted of a flat area of the middle east ), the sky, and “heaven”. The bible writers don't know 1/100th of what we know today, so the various creation myths are the product of the imagination.
Is this Stu?
Kevin, why don't you share with us how you think the world came to be? Do you honestly think that believing the bible's stories on creation versus believe the big bang theory makes any difference either way? They are both theories….we were not there!
Oh, there's more “proof” for the science side than for the creations side….riiiiiight. Well, that depends on who you talk to, I'm sorry but it does. There are just as many Christian Scientists who will vouch for discoveries and proofs of creation. It all boils down to into which camp you want to pitch your tent. And you have tasted the things of the LORD and know that they are good. How are the flavor's over in non-fantasy land? From your posts, they sound like they taste bitter.
Hope all is well with you,
MandyKimba08,
We're not cousins… we are brothers, as with all who love the truth. I agree there are thing that God does not want us to know yet (or are unable to comprehend), but I want to know all He has for me.Wm
Thanks Mandy
Does sound like my friend. I think they made clones?
Truth is Guys, I appoligise for the Clones but calm down and relax. No-one is about to loose their immortal souls except you. So if your not worried, don't sweat it.Brother Wm
Glad you seek! … KAB-58
Kimba,
I'm a bit confused. You signed your post, “Wm”. But Wm belongs to Seekingtruth. Unless of course, your intials happen to be Wm, too?Hi Mandy
Nice to meet you Not3in1!
Sorry for confusion I spoke to 2 people in one post when I should of said Hi Brother WM My initals are KAB then my posting number like KAB-45 for Ease call me K8 like nick put nickname. Or Kim (Male tense if it matters) …KAB-59Quote (Kimba08 @ Aug. 06 2008,08:44) Hi Mandy
Nice to meet you Not3in1!
Sorry for confusion I spoke to 2 people in one post when I should of said Hi Brother WM My initals are KAB then my posting number like KAB-45 for Ease call me K8 like nick put nickname. Or Kim (Male tense if it matters) …KAB-59
K8 – Gotcha!Thanks for clarifying. Enjoying your posts!
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 05 2008,13:31) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 06 2008,06:22) I think you just need to accept that this was just a fantasy story, borrowed from preceding creation myths, to try to explain the origin of the planet (which only consisted of a flat area of the middle east ), the sky, and “heaven”. The bible writers don't know 1/100th of what we know today, so the various creation myths are the product of the imagination.
Is this Stu? Kevin, why don't you share with us how you think the world came to be?
I personally no longer concern myself with how the world came to be. It has no effect on my life and how I live it. We have scientific theories or creation myths. But I will say the scientific theories do make much more sense to me. I always struggled with the creation story of the bible because my mind tends to be very logical, but I allowed myself to hold on to tenuous belief because of “faith”.
Quote Do you honestly think that believing the bible's stories on creation versus believe the big bang theory makes any difference either way? They are both theories….we were not there! The creation myths are not theories, they are speculations based on the imagination. They in no way match the accepted definition of “theory”.
But there is a reason people will hold on to the creation myth of the bible: to disbelieve would be like knocking over the first domino in your faith. Let me explain.
The faith of Christianity is based on the Pauline concept of “original sin”. This concept has its basis in the Adam & Eve story. Without the concept of “original sin”, Jesus' death & resurrection becomes a non-event. Thus everything is delicately intertwined.
If you doubt the creation story, you then are forced to doubt the A&E story. If you doubt this, you then doubt “original sin”. No “original sin” means believing in Jesus is unnecessary and Christianity loses its appeal. As I said, the first domino is tipped…Paul knew this and with one idea formed the basis for a powerful religion.
Quote Oh, there's more “proof” for the science side than for the creations side….riiiiiight. There is, unless you are not willing to go beyond “Godditit”. Just take some time to research it. Just don't go running to ID or creationism sites which receive no valid peer review. Otherwise its
Quote Well, that depends on who you talk to, I'm sorry but it does. There are just as many Christian Scientists who will vouch for discoveries and proofs of creation. Is their “proof” validated? In any case, if a higher power did create the universe, what makes you think it the biblical version is the correct one?
Quote It all boils down to into which camp you want to pitch your tent. And you have tasted the things of the LORD and know that they are good. But I have tasted other things as well and find that I am no longer forced to hold on to ludicrous ideas to retain faith. I now have more friends than before because I avoided certain people as a Christian.
Quote How are the flavor's over in non-fantasy land? From your posts, they sound like they taste bitter. Are you certain? I've been lurking and there are quite a few bitter posts by the various Christians on this board towards fellow brethren. People are people — believing in Yahweh does not give one a greater chance at happiness.
Quote Hope all is well with you,
Mandy
You too.Hey Kevin,
Quote There is, unless you are not willing to go beyond “Godditit”. Just take some time to research it. Just don't go running to ID or creationism sites which receive no valid peer review.
Oh, I've looked. That's why I've decided there is plenty of evidence, proof, speculation out there on both sides. The Creationist can be just as compelling as the Bang guys. It really matters who you want to believe and who you think has better credentials.“Let there be light” happens way after the creation of the heaven and earth in Genesis.
If the earth is in darkness and the sun is already there, then the atmosphere could be thick with dust maybe from eruptions or comet collisions. When light eventually penetrates the earths atmosphere then there is light is there not? From there you have day and night and a planet more conducive to life and a kind of new beginning.
Before this and the preceding darkness, there were most likely many previous ages as the fossils suggest.
But there are a lot of variables to know for sure, but we can have a good guess.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 06 2008,17:56) “Let there be light” happens way after the creation of the heaven and earth in Genesis. If the earth is in darkness and the sun is already there, then the atmosphere could be thick with dust maybe from eruptions or comet collisions. When light eventually penetrates the earths atmosphere then there is light is there not? From there you have day and night and a planet more conducive to life and a kind of new beginning.
Before this and the preceding darkness, there were most likely many previous ages as the fossils suggest.
But there are a lot of variables to know for sure, but we can have a good guess.
Are you postulating an ecosystem with no light? There are such systems of course, but the dinosaurs would have drowned trying to eat the sulfur-eating thermophilic bacteria living around the sea-floor fumeroles. Or whatever.Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 06 2008,06:31) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 06 2008,06:22) I think you just need to accept that this was just a fantasy story, borrowed from preceding creation myths, to try to explain the origin of the planet (which only consisted of a flat area of the middle east ), the sky, and “heaven”. The bible writers don't know 1/100th of what we know today, so the various creation myths are the product of the imagination.
Is this Stu?
kejonn still has one domino left standing in his line. I have none. It's a subtle difference!Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 06 2008,11:19) Hey Kevin, Quote There is, unless you are not willing to go beyond “Godditit”. Just take some time to research it. Just don't go running to ID or creationism sites which receive no valid peer review.
Oh, I've looked. That's why I've decided there is plenty of evidence, proof, speculation out there on both sides. The Creationist can be just as compelling as the Bang guys. It really matters who you want to believe and who you think has better credentials.
Don't count the PhDs! Only the creationists shout about having them and only the 'evolutionary' scientists have PhDs in biology!It's true!
Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 05 2008,18:19) Hey Kevin, Quote There is, unless you are not willing to go beyond “Godditit”. Just take some time to research it. Just don't go running to ID or creationism sites which receive no valid peer review.
Oh, I've looked. That's why I've decided there is plenty of evidence, proof, speculation out there on both sides. The Creationist can be just as compelling as the Bang guys. It really matters who you want to believe and who you think has better credentials.
The reason you find it compelling is that you have a predisposition towards their viewpoint.
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