- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 15 2007,11:38) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 15 2007,09:04) Quote 1 Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth F47 not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; F48 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Quote We, as the church, need to get back to the church as it was in the days of the Apostles. If you go back to the way the church was in the first century then they won't be any women Pastors. And everyone will keep the Sabbath day.
I love truth and the truth is if we go back to the ways of the first century church as you suggest then they would be NO women pastors, you disagree 94?
If we go back to the first century church then everyone would be keeping the seventh day Sabbath, you disagree 94?
Have I become your enemy because I speak the truth?
Hi Ken:You are not my enemy, and I also love the truth and will teach obedience to the commandments that have come to us from God through our Lord Jesus.
You have already given me your understanding relative the Forth Commandment and I have given you my understanding as well, and I have nothing further to add to what I have said on the subject. I will teach obedience to all of God's commandments including this commandment, but as I said before, I believe the seventh day is relative to when you begin your work week. It has nothing to do with a specific day. God made all days, and I fellowship with Him every day. This is the last that I am going to say relative to the Sabbath day.
There may have not been women pastors in the church at the time of the Apostles, but there were women in positions of authority. You mentioned the prophetess Anna and I have you some information on a decon named Phoebe. The world population has expanded considerably since the days of the Apostles, and if there were women in positions of authority in the church at that time, there is no reason why a woman cannot be a pastor in the church if she is ordained by God to be in that position.
The scripture states:
Quote 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus But in my stating that we as a church should go back to the chruch that was in the days of the Apostles, I was making reference to the type of order that was then in the home and in the church. We were discussing Elaine's question relative to women in the church.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 15 2007,12:59) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 15 2007,11:38) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 15 2007,09:04) Quote 1 Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth F47 not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; F48 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Quote We, as the church, need to get back to the church as it was in the days of the Apostles. If you go back to the way the church was in the first century then they won't be any women Pastors. And everyone will keep the Sabbath day.
I love truth and the truth is if we go back to the ways of the first century church as you suggest then they would be NO women pastors, you disagree 94?
If we go back to the first century church then everyone would be keeping the seventh day Sabbath, you disagree 94?
Have I become your enemy because I speak the truth?
Hi Ken:You are not my enemy, and I also love the truth and will teach obedience to the commandments that have come to us from God through our Lord Jesus.
You have already given me your understanding relative the Forth Commandment and I have given you my understanding as well, and I have nothing further to add to what I have said on the subject. I will teach obedience to all of God's commandments including this commandment, but as I said before, I believe the seventh day is relative to when you begin your work week. It has nothing to do with a specific day. God made all days, and I fellowship with Him every day. This is the last that I am going to say relative to the Sabbath day.
There may have not been women pastors in the church at the time of the Apostles, but there were women in positions of authority. You mentioned the prophetess Anna and I have you some information on a decon named Phoebe. The world population has expanded considerably since the days of the Apostles, and if there were women in positions of authority in the church at that time, there is no reason why a woman cannot be a pastor in the church if she is ordained by God to be in that position.
The scripture states:
Quote 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus But in my stating that we as a church should go back to the chruch that was in the days of the Apostles, I was making reference to the type of order that was then in the home and in the church. We were discussing Elaine's question relative to women in the church.
God Bless
Sorry 94, I just don't understand how you can say that it's ok for women to preach but yet we should go back to the apostolic days when the church had women wearing something on their head. As I said I don't understand why was this doctrine was dropped. But again if we go back to apostolic times then women would not be allowed to preach and all denominations would be keeping the seventh day Sabbath.
We should go back and enforce the doctrine of women wearing something on their head but allow women to preach?
We should go back to the pure church when they were keeping the seventh day Sabbath but keep any day we choose.
This makes no sense to me.
Do women of your church cut their hair? Or wear pants?
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 15 2007,13:18) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 15 2007,12:59) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 15 2007,11:38) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 15 2007,09:04) Quote 1 Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth F47 not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; F48 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Quote We, as the church, need to get back to the church as it was in the days of the Apostles. If you go back to the way the church was in the first century then they won't be any women Pastors. And everyone will keep the Sabbath day.
I love truth and the truth is if we go back to the ways of the first century church as you suggest then they would be NO women pastors, you disagree 94?
If we go back to the first century church then everyone would be keeping the seventh day Sabbath, you disagree 94?
Have I become your enemy because I speak the truth?
Hi Ken:You are not my enemy, and I also love the truth and will teach obedience to the commandments that have come to us from God through our Lord Jesus.
You have already given me your understanding relative the Forth Commandment and I have given you my understanding as well, and I have nothing further to add to what I have said on the subject. I will teach obedience to all of God's commandments including this commandment, but as I said before, I believe the seventh day is relative to when you begin your work week. It has nothing to do with a specific day. God made all days, and I fellowship with Him every day. This is the last that I am going to say relative to the Sabbath day.
There may have not been women pastors in the church at the time of the Apostles, but there were women in positions of authority. You mentioned the prophetess Anna and I have you some information on a decon named Phoebe. The world population has expanded considerably since the days of the Apostles, and if there were women in positions of authority in the church at that time, there is no reason why a woman cannot be a pastor in the church if she is ordained by God to be in that position.
The scripture states:
Quote 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus But in my stating that we as a church should go back to the chruch that was in the days of the Apostles, I was making reference to the type of order that was then in the home and in the church. We were discussing Elaine's question relative to women in the church.
God Bless
Sorry 94, I just don't understand how you can say that it's ok for women to preach but yet we should go back to the apostolic days when the church had women wearing something on their head. As I said I don't understand why was this doctrine was dropped. But again if we go back to apostolic times then women would not be allowed to preach and all denominations would be keeping the seventh day Sabbath.
We should go back and enforce the doctrine of women wearing something on their head but allow women to preach?
We should go back to the pure church when they were keeping the seventh day Sabbath but keep any day we choose.
This makes no sense to me.
Do women of your church cut their hair? Or wear pants?
No Ken:You are getting into some misunderstandings regarding women and the church which will tend to cause women to resent this kind of sterotype.
A man's position at home and in the church is a postion of Love and not a dictatorship. If a woman is married, she should show respect for her husband as the scripture indicates. I have given my understanding of what the scriptures say about this and why in my responses to Elaine.
If a woman can be a prophetess or a deacon or if she can be a teacher in the secular world, why can she not be a pastor in the church if she is qualified to do so by God?
God Bless
I won't argue with you 94 it's just not worth it. But this is what you said.
Quote Hi Ken: It is not in the churches today because they are more than likely the pastors are not ordained by God.
We, as the church, need to get back to the church as it was in the days of the Apostles.
God Bless
Are the women in your church allowed to cut their hair?
Just wondering?
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 15 2007,14:01) I won't argue with you 94 it's just not worth it. But this is what you said. Quote Hi Ken: It is not in the churches today because they are more than likely the pastors are not ordained by God.
We, as the church, need to get back to the church as it was in the days of the Apostles.
God Bless
Are the women in your church allowed to cut their hair?
Just wondering?
Ken:A woman can do what ever she want to do with her hair. It is her hair, but if she wants to obey what God says relative to this matter she may want to wear it long or at least not cut it so short that she looks like a man.
My role of Bishop in the church, when I am ordained, will be to correct the false doctrines and practices that go on in today's church.
This is what the scripture states regarding hair:
Quote 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10 For this cause ought the woman to have power F33 on her head because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. 13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. F34 16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. Quote 9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Quote 3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters F14 ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. It may be that God would not put a woman in the position of a Bishop (over-seer) in the church, and I say this because he did not have any Apostles that were women, and because of the following scripture:
Quote This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6 Not a novice, F3 lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. And I don't want to argue either Ken.
Quote Timothy 2:22-26
22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,God Bless
This is an interesting topic to me.
I do believe that if God wanted women to be in a position of teaching/preaching/pastoring, he would have chosen them back in the disciples day.
I enjoy listening to Joyce Meyers on TV and think that she is a gifted speaker/teacher, however, she also displaces her husband (who is her HEAD), who is always in the audience. I always have an un-easy feeling when the camera's pan the audience and get a close-up of her husband watching her preach. Something inside of me tells me that that is wrong somehow? But I'm not certain.
I, myself, used to be in a place of authority in the church. But my husband did not attend church, and so somehow I rationalized it by thinking that he wasn't there, so it was OK for me to lead worship or teach a class. If he was there, I would feel like I was displacing him somehow? I don't know….. Paul seems to be pretty convincing when he says women should ask their husbands……
And I don't want to argue either Ken.
Quote
Timothy 2:22-26
22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,Gees is it wrong to seek the truth? You want to be a leader of shepherds of the people of God. Am I not allowed to ask what you believe? I really don't think my questions are “unlearned”.
They are all scriptural questions. Do the women in your church cut their hair? This is a scriptural question as Paul said that women's hair is a covering.
As far as the other thing you seem to contradict yourself by saying that women can preach then say that the church should go back to the apostolic days. In the apostolic days women were not allowed to speak in church. So how were they to preach?
You can't have your cake and eat it too. But I agree with you the more the church goes Back to when the church was PURE the better.
Of course if the church goes back to the apostolic times then as back then everyone would keep the Sabbath but spiritually as I'm sure the apostles kept it that way, having pick corn on the Sabbath.
But then again you would be in a dilemma wanting to keep your doctrine of any day. Unless you pick and choose what of the apostolic church you would keep. Women would have to wear something on their head but be allowed to Pastor
.94, I still don't understand how you would pull something like that off. Of course today you have those of like mind who seek teachers in accordance with their own desires.
2Ti 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:
2Ti 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
2Ti 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
2Ti 4:4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.If the church were to go back to the pure times of the apostles I fear not many would attend which is why today's “Christian” church would NEVER do so. That would mean less money and that's what today's Christian church is all about.
2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
2Th 2:11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,
2Th 2:12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.Let us go back to the church that was pure and fresh and adhere to their teachings.
God bless,
Ken
Hi everyone: I still dont get it. Did JESUS ever said anything to that effect : that women should not do all those things Paul is saying? I know for a fact that Jehova did not intend for women to be treated less[ meaning like objects ,possessions] He did not intend for man to have slaves either. But HE ALLOWED because of man's selfishness[the curse HE put to EVE, she will crave her man ,in turn he will dominate her…]. The Apostoles were imperfect humans too, I am not trying to judge them I am just stating a fact. Paul or Peter talks about that too… so , could it be that Paul being human and living in those times were women were posessions could it be his personal feelings about it? is that possible, that He was just ''folllowing'' theviews about women in those times? Having said that I am not saying that the women should not be submissive to their husbands there is a chain of command, that makes sense, but to go AS FAR as to not letting them talk, and reffering to them as if something shameful? to me that has prejudiced written all over…
Kejohn Thank you for your comment. I agree with you. I think history and traditions are more relevant to this issue than anything else… is the one that makes more sense to me .:) Like I said before, GOD made it very clear about the man being the head. chain of command. I am not arguing that at all. I am expressing some skepticism toward specific things Paul have said about specific things about women. agape love to you all!
Ken:
You and I have discussed various scriptures. When you have asked for my understanding, I have given you my understanding. If we disagree, that does not mean that I am right and you are wrong, but I can't tell you that I agree with you on something if I don't. When we disagree, we need to go to God in prayer and ask him to bring us into unity. I don't mind being corrected if I am wrong. In fact if God loves me, I ask Him to correct me quickly and not let me go a minute teaching something that is not true.
Relative to the Sabbath day, I have encouraged you to continue to observe it on the day that you believe that you should, but I just ask that you not judge me or someone else that doesn't agree with you on this isssue to be in sin. The Pharisees were judging the disciples who were picking corn to be violating the Sabbath day. Jesus said that He is Lord of the Sabbath. It is he who is the judge. I think that it is wonderful that you are striving to obey the commandments, and I also, love the Lord and am striving to obey.
You are always welcome to ask my understanding on anything in the scriptures, and I will give you my understanding, and I welcome your understanding as well. And if you don't agree with me on something that I teach that is ok. Maybe you are right and I am wrong, and I am wrong I want to be corrected. I don't believe who is right or wrong should be the issue, but that we learn the truth of God's Word so that we can be united in teaching the truth.
I ask if Anna was a prophetess could she speak in the church. Or if Phoebe is a deacon, can she speak in the church?
Sometimes it is difficult to understand what the Apostle Paul is saying relative to this issue. But my understanding when he says that a woman should not speak in the church is that he is saying that a married woman should not ask a question of someone teaching the Word of God because that would show disrespect for her husband since he is her pastor. She should ask him the question at home, and if he could not answer the question then he could go to the person who was teaching and ask her question. A covering on a woman's head is to show that she is subjected to her husband. This shows respect for him and shows that she is not usurping his authority.
But if I have taught my wife the Word of God, and she is now qualified to teach others what God has taught her through me, I don't see that this would be an issue. She should still wear a covering to show that she is subjected to me out of respect for me.
I don't believe that a woman should be an Apostle, but women under his authority and who are qualified to teach the Word of God should be allowed to teach. Anyway, I have given you my understanding on this issue. Feel free to give me your understanding.
God Bless
QUOTE]Sometimes it is difficult to understand what the Apostle Paul is saying relative to this issue. But my understanding when he says that a woman should not speak in the church is that he is saying that a married woman should not ask a question of someone teaching the Word of God because that would show disrespect for her husband since he is her pastor. She should ask him the question at home, and if he could not answer the question then he could go to the person who was teaching and ask her question. A covering on a woman's head is to show that she is subjected to her husband. This shows respect for him and shows that she is not usurping his authority.
But if I have taught my wife the Word of God, and she is now qualified to teach others what God has taught her through me, I don't see that this would be an issue. She should still wear a covering to show that she is subjected to me out of respect for me.[/QUOTE]
Is a married woman to teach men? What if a man ask a question that she has no answer for? Is she to call on her husband to come forward and answer the question?
If a married woman were to be a pastor and she is under her husband how is she going to pastor those who are under Christ?
I see it all the time husband and wife pastors! And the Spirit is grieved!
No I don't agree with this doctrine either.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Hi all,
Pretty amazing, but I had just started reading a book called Peter, Paul, and Mary Magdalene by Bart D. Ehrman. I had decided to start with the section on Paul first and lo and behold, what verses should come up besides 1 Cor 14:34-36.
1Co 14:34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.
1Co 14:36 Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?According to the author, many scholars feel these verses were not written by Paul but possibly added by a scribe later on. The 3 reasons they give for this are (1) it does not agree with what Paul said of women in 1 Cor 11 (he talks of women prophesying). (2) If you take the verses out, the flow of the chapter comes together; that is, the verses in question interrupt the way the chapter reads (prophets before the verses, prophets after) (3) there are disagreements in many manuscripts as to the placement of these verses, as if they may have been footnotes earlier but later added to the manuscript as part of the book.
Just thought I'd mention this because I found it was amazing how this very subject came up in the book I was just starting to read.
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 16 2007,05:21) QUOTE]Sometimes it is difficult to understand what the Apostle Paul is saying relative to this issue. But my understanding when he says that a woman should not speak in the church is that he is saying that a married woman should not ask a question of someone teaching the Word of God because that would show disrespect for her husband since he is her pastor. She should ask him the question at home, and if he could not answer the question then he could go to the person who was teaching and ask her question. A covering on a woman's head is to show that she is subjected to her husband. This shows respect for him and shows that she is not usurping his authority. But if I have taught my wife the Word of God, and she is now qualified to teach others what God has taught her through me, I don't see that this would be an issue. She should still wear a covering to show that she is subjected to me out of respect for me.
Is a married woman to teach men? What if a man ask a question that she has no answer for? Is she to call on her husband to come forward and answer the question?
If a married woman were to be a pastor and she is under her husband how is she going to pastor those who are under Christ?
I see it all the time husband and wife pastors! And the Spirit is grieved!
No I don't agree with this doctrine either.[/quote]
Ok Ken:So we don't agree on this issue either. So let's join hands in prayer asking God to show us what he wants in the church relative to women so that we can walk in unity and teach what he wants. Is that ok. If I am wrong, I want to be corrected so I can teach the truth. How about you?
God Bless
Ken:
I thought that I would paste the following scriptures for your consideration:
Quote 1 Corinthians 11
11:1
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
11:2
Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
11:4
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
11:5
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
11:6
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
11:7
For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
11:8
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
11:9
* * Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
11:10
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11:11
Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
11:12
For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
11:13The above scriptures state that a woman is allowed to prophesy in the church, but she has to wear a covering. I believe that this is speaking about a married woman, and the covering is to show respect for her husband.
I believe that the following scripture will help us understand that Paul is talking about a married woman here:
Quote 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.Also, I a man asked a question of a woman who had been qualified to teach his Word and she didn't know the anwser or if a man asked a man who was qualified to teach the Word of God and he didn't know the answer, he or she would have to say I don't know the answer to your questions, but I will pray and ask God for understanding so that I can answer your question.
An Apostle is responsible for ordaining elders by the authority vested in him by the Lord. If he allows puts someone in a position of authority in the church who is not qualified, he is responsible for their errors. Of course, anyone is subject to make mistakes, but I am speaking of errors of someone who makes them because he or she is not qualified. This is what I believe that the following scipture indicates:
Quote 5:22
Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.Anyway, just some more food for thought on this subject. Still praying.
God Bless
Any chance that these customs were particularly of those times? Any chance that JESUS had change these way of thinking? Any chance Jesus did not feel the same way as Paul? Again, Paul was an inperfect human, any chance this was his own opinion based on the customs of those times?
Dont get me wrong , again I want to clarify, I do agree there has to be a head and that would be the man. but, do we have to go so far as to not let them speak? I do understand the thinking that if she is married then she should ask her husband, if her husband does not know then it is his responsibility to ask elders. That is common respect and consideration for the husband from the wife. the head covering, did Jesus mention it? The ''showing respect to her husband' is not that a little …just not humble from her husband to have to show off the world that his wife respects him ? I dont think Jesus would have been so preocupied with that … I dont know I do not mean to be rebellious but it sounds just like a lot of irrelevant bologni:OQuote (942767 @ Aug. 16 2007,07:35) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 16 2007,05:21) QUOTE]Sometimes it is difficult to understand what the Apostle Paul is saying relative to this issue. But my understanding when he says that a woman should not speak in the church is that he is saying that a married woman should not ask a question of someone teaching the Word of God because that would show disrespect for her husband since he is her pastor. She should ask him the question at home, and if he could not answer the question then he could go to the person who was teaching and ask her question. A covering on a woman's head is to show that she is subjected to her husband. This shows respect for him and shows that she is not usurping his authority. But if I have taught my wife the Word of God, and she is now qualified to teach others what God has taught her through me, I don't see that this would be an issue. She should still wear a covering to show that she is subjected to me out of respect for me.
Is a married woman to teach men? What if a man ask a question that she has no answer for? Is she to call on her husband to come forward and answer the question?
If a married woman were to be a pastor and she is under her husband how is she going to pastor those who are under Christ?
I see it all the time husband and wife pastors! And the Spirit is grieved!
No I don't agree with this doctrine either.[/quote]
Ok Ken:So we don't agree on this issue either. So let's join hands in prayer asking God to show us what he wants in the church relative to women so that we can walk in unity and teach what he wants. Is that ok. If I am wrong, I want to be corrected so I can teach the truth. How about you?
God Bless
You got it brother! Let's do that.Father I ask in your Son's name for your truth. I ask for your forgiveness that we are sometimes stiff nicked and hard of hearing. We no longer want to be two on your word but one as your Son prayed. Help us through your Spirit to understand your word. Amen!
Amen 94?
Quote (elaine1809 @ Aug. 16 2007,09:23) Any chance that these customs were particularly of those times? Any chance that JESUS had change these way of thinking? Any chance Jesus did not feel the same way as Paul? Again, Paul was an inperfect human, any chance this was his own opinion based on the customs of those times? Dont get me wrong , again I want to clarify, I do agree there has to be a head and that would be the man. but, do we have to go so far as to not let them speak? I do understand the thinking that if she is married then she should ask her husband, if her husband does not know then it is his responsibility to ask elders. That is common respect and consideration for the husband from the wife. the head covering, did Jesus mention it? The ''showing respect to her husband' is not that a little …just not humble from her husband to have to show off the world that his wife respects him ? I dont think Jesus would have been so preocupied with that … I dont know I do not mean to be rebellious but it sounds just like a lot of irrelevant bologni:O
El, Paul was an apostle. God does not change. I don't believe that God adhere's to man's law of being politically correct.Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church, EPH 5:25! That is the most love there can possibly be.
There is no better way to describe how a husband should treat his wife.
Today women want to be taken out of their role and obligations. This is why children grow up without the love of the mother. It throws the family institute all out of whack! An infant grows not knowing whom is it's mother the babysitter or the real mother indeed the baby spends more time with the babysitter.
Paul's writings are scripture. God's word to His children, should we not listen?
In HIS Name and LOVE,
Ken
''El, Paul was an apostle. God does not change. I don't believe that God adhere's to man's law of being politically correct.''
Hi Ken: I agree with you GOD does not change.Ia also agree with everything you are sayinabout womens roles and how this present world has make it impossible for women acomplish their original Godly role. But that is not the issue I was trying to bring out. But thank you for your input you have great points:)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
