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Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 15 2009,08:26) Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 14 2009,10:31) Quote (Cindy @ May 15 2009,22:06) The ark provided safety from destruction that God had pronounced on the world, for Noah and his family; what will protect you from God’s wrath in the end-time? How close do you think we are to the end-time? Have you been watching the news lately?
You know, I hate to point this out – but Noah DID have to build an ark. He and his people did have to do something for themselves to survive. God didn't magically do everything for them.Again, God will not save you – you will save yourselves or perish.
Happier not believing that? Fine with me.
Hey Douglas if you don't mind me asking, just what is this all referring to.We need to save ourselves…..save ourselves from what?
Well, I could beat around the bush somewhat, and say the “end times” that various people here not only believe in, but believe are happening or close to happening now. Some of these people I think have made statements to this effect even in this thread.Or, I could suggest that we happen to live on a planet that is not only capable of dramatically and (relatively) abruptly moving from one climate regime to another – but that is in increasingly imminent danger of doing so. The effects of this are likely to be far more profound than most people realise. This on top of the smaller issues of limited resources and overpopulation.
Now there are still people alive who remember the world wars – and perhaps it won't be so much worse, excepting that a vast majority of people might die. But as they said, “better a horrible end, than an endless horror”?
Anyway, my angle is the second of those two – the signs seem to be there that time is really starting to run out now (and I don't mean to stop it, it's most likely too late now for that).
Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 15 2009,10:42) Well, I could beat around the bush somewhat, and say the “end times” that various people here not only believe in, but believe are happening or close to happening now. Some of these people I think have made statements to this effect even in this thread. Or, I could suggest that we happen to live on a planet that is not only capable of dramatically and (relatively) abruptly moving from one climate regime to another – but that is in increasingly imminent danger of doing so. The effects of this are likely to be far more profound than most people realise. This on top of the smaller issues of limited resources and overpopulation.
Now there are still people alive who remember the world wars – and perhaps it won't be so much worse, excepting that a vast majority of people might die. But as they said, “better a horrible end, than an endless horror”?
Anyway, my angle is the second of those two – the signs seem to be there that time is really starting to run out now (and I don't mean to stop it, it's most likely too late now for that).
Douglas, if you would understand what generation Jesus was talking about,Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
and who the kings are that Daniel was referring too,
Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.you wold know, we are living in the last decade of that generation, and in the days of mans final attempt of a “one world government”.
Georg
Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 23 2009,20:48) Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 15 2009,10:42) Well, I could beat around the bush somewhat, and say the “end times” that various people here not only believe in, but believe are happening or close to happening now. Some of these people I think have made statements to this effect even in this thread. Or, I could suggest that we happen to live on a planet that is not only capable of dramatically and (relatively) abruptly moving from one climate regime to another – but that is in increasingly imminent danger of doing so. The effects of this are likely to be far more profound than most people realise. This on top of the smaller issues of limited resources and overpopulation.
Now there are still people alive who remember the world wars – and perhaps it won't be so much worse, excepting that a vast majority of people might die. But as they said, “better a horrible end, than an endless horror”?
Anyway, my angle is the second of those two – the signs seem to be there that time is really starting to run out now (and I don't mean to stop it, it's most likely too late now for that).
Douglas, if you would understand what generation Jesus was talking about,Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
and who the kings are that Daniel was referring too,
Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.you wold know, we are living in the last decade of that generation, and in the days of mans final attempt of a “one world government”.
Georg
If we had a decade left, I'd dance for joy (and I don't dance).I have something very specific I need to do, and to be quite honest what the bible says is of very minor importance to me compared to that. Religious beliefs generally are also not of much importance to me except where I can clearly correlate them with other data to classify them into how probable they are.
The amount of time left is however important and I really wish it were even one half of a decade.
This looks interesting, Im giong to read the thread when I have some time.
What is the something specific you have to do Douglas if you dont mind me asking,
Quote (karmarie @ Aug. 24 2009,21:24) This looks interesting, Im giong to read the thread when I have some time. What is the something specific you have to do Douglas if you dont mind me asking,
Safeguard civilisation.I don't intend to say any more about that in the near future.
Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 24 2009,06:41) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 23 2009,20:48) Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 15 2009,10:42) Well, I could beat around the bush somewhat, and say the “end times” that various people here not only believe in, but believe are happening or close to happening now. Some of these people I think have made statements to this effect even in this thread. Or, I could suggest that we happen to live on a planet that is not only capable of dramatically and (relatively) abruptly moving from one climate regime to another – but that is in increasingly imminent danger of doing so. The effects of this are likely to be far more profound than most people realise. This on top of the smaller issues of limited resources and overpopulation.
Now there are still people alive who remember the world wars – and perhaps it won't be so much worse, excepting that a vast majority of people might die. But as they said, “better a horrible end, than an endless horror”?
Anyway, my angle is the second of those two – the signs seem to be there that time is really starting to run out now (and I don't mean to stop it, it's most likely too late now for that).
Douglas, if you would understand what generation Jesus was talking about,Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
and who the kings are that Daniel was referring too,
Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.you wold know, we are living in the last decade of that generation, and in the days of mans final attempt of a “one world government”.
Georg
If we had a decade left, I'd dance for joy (and I don't dance).I have something very specific I need to do, and to be quite honest what the bible says is of very minor importance to me compared to that. Religious beliefs generally are also not of much importance to me except where I can clearly correlate them with other data to classify them into how probable they are.
The amount of time left is however important and I really wish it were even one half of a decade.
Doug….You have a keen sense of reasoning….I find it interesting how you put religion and bible teaching into a relative sense when it comes to your well being….Nobody knows the time we are told….and at the same time signs dictate that the time is near….Is a decade relevent to you…Fear Not ! If god sees fit 100 decades will pass..What really matters is that we get over ourselves and realize how tenuous life is and that we have the inteligence and the depraved indifference to destroy ourselves…Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 26 2009,10:58) Doug….You have a keen sense of reasoning….I find it interesting how you put religion and bible teaching into a relative sense when it comes to your well being….Nobody knows the time we are told….and at the same time signs dictate that the time is near….Is a decade relevent to you…Fear Not ! If god sees fit 100 decades will pass..What really matters is that we get over ourselves and realize how tenuous life is and that we have the inteligence and the depraved indifference to destroy ourselves…
theodorejIf you understand the meaning of the fig tree, and the appearing of the leaves, you would know it speaks of the reestablishing of the nation Israel, which happened in 1948, it is this generation, beginning in 1948, that will not pass till all things be fulfilled. That is what Jesus said, not a 100 decades.
Georg
Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 26 2009,10:58) Doug….You have a keen sense of reasoning….I find it interesting how you put religion and bible teaching into a relative sense when it comes to your well being….Nobody knows the time we are told….and at the same time signs dictate that the time is near….Is a decade relevent to you…Fear Not ! If god sees fit 100 decades will pass..What really matters is that we get over ourselves and realize how tenuous life is and that we have the inteligence and the depraved indifference to destroy ourselves…
Call me selfish, but my well being is actually pretty important to me. Not the only thing that matters, but still right up there.Don't forget that much as people would like to say “this happened on this day at this time”, plenty of things don't have a clear line that says – it happened here. Events tend to be a continuous flow from one to another, with the future shaped by today.
Did the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand really start World War I – or was it the forming of the complex web of treaties that sucked everyone into the war?
This train of events is very thoroughly in motion, and the laws of physics are tricky things to ignore.
Could say it in two words actually.
“Positive feedback.”Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 30 2009,11:24) Did the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand really start World War I – or was it the forming of the complex web of treaties that sucked everyone into the war?
DouglasThose treaties were singed after the 1 WW.
Georg
Cindy,
It is the spiritual Israel, the born again saints, the 42nd generation that is spoken of here. The generation of Jesus from the cross to the end of time. You must look at this with spiritual eyes and not carnal. This is not speaking of the modern day Israel in 1948.
“Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
According to Mattew in the 17th verse, the total generations (14+14+14) would be 42. But when we count the generations down through Jesus, there are only 41! As we read the first sixteen verses of the book of Matthew we find that David was the 14 th generation, from David to the Babylonian captivity made Jeconias the 28th generation and from Jeconias to Joseph (husband of Mary) was another 12 generations making Joseph the 40th generation. This makes Jesus, according to the generations of law, the 41st generation so where is the 42nd generation?
There seems to be a missing generation, or is there? Note that the scripture says UNTO CHRIST! The answer is that there is only to be one generation since Jesus and it is a nation of sons that have been coming forth since the resurrection of Christ! They are the CHRIST generation, those who are born of the Spirit of the Living God. It is an eternal generation born of the Holy Spirit of the LIVING GOD! It is the generation of THE CHRIST! The Psalmist declared a 'seed' that would be accounted for a generation!”
With a little help from the teachings of Bill Britton. Mama once told me, “You don't have to know everything, but you do need to know who does, so you can ask them”…
Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 02 2009,16:41) Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 30 2009,11:24) Did the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand really start World War I – or was it the forming of the complex web of treaties that sucked everyone into the war?
DouglasThose treaties were singed after the 1 WW.
Georg
No, this was a factor behind WW1 also – here is a quote from Wikipedia:Quote The immediate or proximate cause of war was the assassination on 28 June 1914 of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, by Gavrilo Princip, a Serbian nationalist. Austria–Hungary's resulting demands against the Kingdom of Serbia activated a sequence of alliances. Within weeks the major European powers were at war; their global empires meant that the conflict soon spread worldwide. I happen to have studied this period of history (albeit quite a while ago), and while similar factors did play a part in the second World War, they were key to the first also (you can easily research it a bit if interested).
Quote (eveh @ Sep. 02 2009,18:17) Doug, it is the spiritual Israel, the born again, the 42nd generation that is spoken of here. The generation of Jesus from the cross to the end of time. You must look at this with spiritual eyes and not carnal. The scriptures are spiritually discerned.
Forgive me for being so blunt, but if I see a sledgehammer coming down on my head, I don't care what eyes I'm using – I'm getting out of the way.I appreciate the scriptures may be spiritually discerned, and that would be why I focus far more on science to understand the world. In this instance, if you want a (very) optimistic outlook, you could refer to the IPCC assessments.
It is an interesting question in my mind if any religious texts do – clearly and accurately – predict events – but I see the hammer falling regardless.
Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 04 2009,11:54) Douglas The hammer is falling, but, its the bible that prophesied it would.
Georg
My issue with that though, and my reason for now not favouring the bible in this respect is that people have used the bible to claim the end is nigh multiple times throughout it's history.Additionally, although I have looked at some of the bible in this light (particularly Revelations), I found it such a tangled mess it was of minimal use for clearly reading anything at all – when I have much higher fidelity data sources elsewhere.
Using only the bible – can you clearly identify the major processes happening around the world that will reshape it in the relatively near future? (you see, even if the bible is an accurate forecast, it was written by people who simply lacked the understanding and vocabulary we would use to describe the changes happening)
In this particular case, it's a rather big hammer, and you need a reasonably clear idea what's happening to avoid it.
Again, based on the bible, can you tell me what you will or would do to avoid it? (can you even identify the problems you need to solve in order to do so?)
Douglas
You say the book of Revelation is a tangled mess, why not put me to the test, and ask me some specific question?
Georg
Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 05 2009,10:27) Douglas You say the book of Revelation is a tangled mess, why not put me to the test, and ask me some specific question?
Georg
Well, we both seem to pretty much agree that we're near the “end”, so that helps, since it necessarily ties Revelation to today for our purposes. Specific questions – I could list plenty, most of which I feel are of considerable relevance to what is happening.Rest assured that I won't know the answers to most of them at this time and to answer even a moderate portion of them accurately would be no mean feat.
What year will we see the first ice free summer in the Arctic sea ice in? (As I see it, the Arctic ice acts as the cold side of a rather large heat engine that drives our current climate in the process of transporting heat northwards. Not only will the total loss of sea ice significantly alter planetary albedo, the restriction on water temperature will be removed since melting ice always maintains a temperature around freezing point until it is gone)
What impact can we expect in the northern hemisphere following the loss of summer sea ice in the Arctic? (bad, but how bad)
Are we likely to see rapid rates of sea level rise before the majority of people have starved? (sea level rise in paleoclimate looks as though it can be quite rapid but the current rate of rise is nowhere near those levels. The question really boils down to whether large numbers of people will flee low lying areas or not)
Is is a valid concern to wonder if methane clathrates could be released at a fast enough rate to cause very large explosions? (refer Wikiepedia methane clathrates and clathrate gun hypothesis for more on this. The clathrates are starting to destabilise at greater depths now which is bad news but still indeterminate how bad)
What proportion of the planets forests will be destroyed by fire, and are there any major areas of forest we can expect to keep? (if so, which ones. Large areas of forest play a helpful role in maintaining local climate especially in terms of rainfall)
How widespread can we expect the use of nuclear weapons to be as people become increasingly desparate and start fighting over increasingly limited resources? (helpful to identify which regions of the world are most likely to be bombed)
To what degree will civilisation gracefully and quietly degrade as people accept their fate and adjust and adapt to the environment, and to what degree will it degenerate into a violent lawless bloodbath? (and by implication in which areas will the violence be worst)
What proportion of people will attempt to migrate north to flee the advancing desert and drought and collapse in the south? (clearly many of them may not make it even if they try)
In which years (specifically) can we expect the peak rates of collapse (in terms of human deaths) to occur?
How long after this will it take for the climate and environment to settle into new stable regimes?
We both clearly expect some survivors and ultimately some civilisation subsequently, but what happens to the human race next, way down the line (a thousand years or so, say)?
Besides increasing desertification is there any significant negative feedbacks that will help balance things back to equilibrium faster, and moderate the overall impact?
Is there anything I'm missing that should give me more hope that the collapse won't be as bad as it looks like it will be?
What should those who survive expect of the environment around them during the most chaotic years of transition to a new climate regime?
There – more than enough questions for now.
Douglas
You must have a different bible than I have, in my bible there are none of the questions in the book of Revelation.
Why can't you be serious, stick to the book of Revelation, and ask “a” question, go easy on yourself.Georg
Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 06 2009,09:57) Douglas You must have a different bible than I have, in my bible there are none of the questions in the book of Revelation.
Why can't you be serious, stick to the book of Revelation, and ask “a” question, go easy on yourself.Georg
I'm deadly serious (literally). Those are questions that concern the world of today and what is happening, and that will have a major and fundamental impact on you and virtually everyone else alive today (including your children and grandchildren if you have any of either).I thought you wanted questions about the “end”, which I thought Revelations was meant to be about?
I can read the words in the book myself, I wanted to know how you relate it to what is happening today (and exactly how you can use it to predict any sort of ending in the near future).
Douglas
My Cristal ball is broken, and I have not yet gotten a new one.
Maybe you should read Nostradamus prediction, I think the History Channel has a program on to night.
You were the one that said, “the book of Revelation is a tangled mess”, I was trying to help you untangle it, I ask you to ask questions from the book of Revelation, not the News Paper.Georg
Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 06 2009,10:52) Douglas My Cristal ball is broken, and I have not yet gotten a new one.
Maybe you should read Nostradamus prediction, I think the History Channel has a program on to night.
You were the one that said, “the book of Revelation is a tangled mess”, I was trying to help you untangle it, I ask you to ask questions from the book of Revelation, not the News Paper.Georg
Ah, and thus I expected the book of Relevations to have some relation to major things happening in the world today, that will lead to the most likely candidate for your “end”.I would have expected if the book were relevant to today, that it would be relateable to today.
This is nothing to do with either Nostradamus, crystal balls – or the bible (my original contention).
This is everything to do with what I can see with my own eyes in the real world around me. No need for the bible, Nostradamus or crystal balls – I can just look at the world here and now. I think I have at least a basic grasp of the science involved, and thus these are my own questions, not ones from the newspaper.
Rather than ask a single question, perhaps better if I form a brief synopsis of my world view – and you could do the same from Revelations (a very brief and clear summary of the content in understandable terms if you like). Here goes:
“The world is entering a time of probable significant climate change. This means big changes to what crops can be grown when and where, undermining food security for a large portion of the human race. We are already into a period of positive feedbacks where processes in the natural world are starting to irreversibly amplify themselves. The tendency of humans to fight when presented with limited resources gives a poor outlook for the continuation of our current civilisation.”
In 4 sentences, that's my synopsis – what would Relevations say – strictly in the context of, say, the next 5-10 years? (no need to mock me with Nostradamus, since I don't yet see how Revelations is better)
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