Left behind

[Cindy]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 09 2009,10:42)

Quote (Cindy @ June 09 2009,10:33) TK  Paul would somehow disagree with you.  John tells us if we believe that we are not sinners the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10 Paul says I do what I am not to do, and do not what I should do.  We still are sinners, the flesh is still involved, but in Jesus sin is not imputed to us.  But we still have to confess our sins and God will forgive us in a twinkling of an eye. Christ took away the death penalty of the sin that we commit. He is the perfect Sacrifice for our sin's.  And if we walk in the Spirit, like I said before the evil one has to leave, I never said that we don't sin. Paul says that we die  daily.  The more we overcome the more God gives us of His Spirit IMO. Peace and Love Irene Irene:Everybody has the free will choice to find the Truth of God. I have found my Truth and it creates the fruit of Love in my heart. You have found your own Truth. Be blessed, TK

TK So you denying what John is saying? Oh well can't win them all.
Yes indeed I believe what the words in the Bible teach me. My body is weak, but my Spirit is strong. But to say, that I do not sin, would be denying Scripture and that I will not do. What happens to be since I been a baptized Christian, that the Holy Spirit in me will tell me when I have for instance a bad thought or if I get angry at something, that is how I have learned to recognize sin in me. If you believe that you do not sin, John will disagree with you. Did you read the Sermon on the Mount?
Irene

[Tim Kraft]

Hey Nick: Whatever God says, IS! God spoke to Mary through an Angel and said you will concieve a child, he said what his name would be and much of what would happen in his life in a condensed version. Those Spirit words from God became flesh through the womans acceptence therefore the word of God became flesh in a man. This was the only begotten son of God. The only human born of Gods word through a woman. Adam was created not born of a woman. Legal entry into the Earth must be through a woman. You must be born of physical water/woman to enter the earth legally and to find God you must be born of Spirit. Gods words are Spirit and Life sent through Jesus to mankind to express the Truth from God. As a person clears out old thoughts (religion) and doctrines of men they are able to accept and recieve the Spirit words of God from Jesus. This is re-creating the human mind unto the Truth of God. Born again means re-creation of mind or born anew. I believe this process happens instantaniously and continues throughout life on earth. I believe that …as a man believeth in his heart/mind, so he is. As we partake or consume/eat and drink the words of Jesus we become ONE with the Father,Son and whole Spirit. We came from God with clear minds and first created ourselves from the physical world, touch,taste,sound,sight and thought. To find God we must be re-created with spiritual understanding, dreams,pictures etc. The bottom line is we rise up through spiritual understanding unto oneness in God, here on this planet, in this world, now!! We are here to reconcile Heaven and Earth together as one. Human Angels never before created. Unlimited! Blessings to all, TK

[Tim Kraft]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2009,10:57)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 09 2009,10:07) Quote (Cindy @ June 09 2009,07:58) TK an Gene!  You think that we should be Baptized?  That is the only we can understand God's truth, when we receive God's Holy Spirit. Without it we understand not the things of God. Now we are able to have Faith in Jesus Christ, we know Him, and the Father and Jesus are with us, we are the temple of God. Salvation now is a free gift of God, so nobody can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 Through the Blood of Christ we have been washed clean, so stay under the Blood of Christ, and put away all sin.  Walk in the Spirit and put on the whole Armor of God, and the evil one will have to stay away. What a great Savior and Heavenly Father we have, that Jesus loved us so much, that He gave up His own Life for us. Peace and Love Irene Irene: Water Baptism was a physical, metaphoric picture of the cleansing of the mind to prepare people for the new Spirit Baptism by the words of Jesus that are the True cleansing.For me recieving the Spirit of God is not a one time event. Gods words are Spirit and Jesus gave them to us to wash us clean of any thoughts of sin. When you wrote…and put away all sin….I would like to say more accurately…all sin has been put away by Jesus. There is nothing to do or not do on our part, just believe. Sin never was something you do or don't do. Sin was mistaken thinking or an error of belief that anything could separate man and God. You cannot be separated from God, he is everywhere, where would he go? Just for fun, replace the word sin with, “mistaken thoughts” when you read the Bible and see the change it makes in understanding.Please remember Irene that the war against us is not flesh and blood or a physical war. Religion (mans errant doctrines) will come and try to tell you that you gotta do something or not do something etc. But we know it is finished in Jesus, he made you perfect, don't let that go. Blessings upon you, TK Hi TK, So somehow reading scripture cleansed your mind and you gradually gained the Holy Spirit?  Sort of a self salvation? Sounds rather different to what happened in Acts. We are so weak and easily self deceived. We must be born again.

Nick: If Jesus says you are clean, and you believe it, then you are clean. If you don't believe his words that you are clean, then your sin (mistake) remains.
If you read anything that talk about how strong, corageous, powerful, unstopable,great, incredible and so on you are and you believe what is written you will begin to feel powerful and unstopable. Jesus gave his very life to emplore you to accept who you really are. You are not weak and decieved. You are a son of God in the flesh rising up through understanding of who you are to meet the Lord in the air/Spirit. Sound familiar?
Another time good friend, TK

[Tim Kraft]

Quote (Cindy @ June 09 2009,11:10)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 09 2009,10:42) Quote (Cindy @ June 09 2009,10:33) TK  Paul would somehow disagree with you.  John tells us if we believe that we are not sinners the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10 Paul says I do what I am not to do, and do not what I should do.  We still are sinners, the flesh is still involved, but in Jesus sin is not imputed to us.  But we still have to confess our sins and God will forgive us in a twinkling of an eye. Christ took away the death penalty of the sin that we commit. He is the perfect Sacrifice for our sin's.  And if we walk in the Spirit, like I said before the evil one has to leave, I never said that we don't sin. Paul says that we die  daily.  The more we overcome the more God gives us of His Spirit IMO. Peace and Love Irene Irene:Everybody has the free will choice to find the Truth of God. I have found my Truth and it creates the fruit of Love in my heart. You have found your own Truth. Be blessed, TK TK  So you denying what John is saying? Oh well can't win them all. Yes indeed I believe what the words in the Bible teach me. My body is weak, but my Spirit is strong. But to say, that I do not sin, would be denying Scripture and that I will not do. What happens to be since I been a baptized Christian, that the Holy Spirit in me will tell me when I have for instance a bad thought or if I get angry at something, that is how I have learned to recognize sin in me. If you believe that you do not sin, John will disagree with you. Did you read the Sermon on the Mount? Irene

Irene: Since you believe Jesus didn't take away our sin would you please tell me what sin is! Is sin something you do or don't do? Is sin an error of belief? Is sin a mistaken belief that God is angry or separated from you. Since you are so sure you are a sinner and have sin or do sin I would say you are lost in sin (like before Jesus gave his life to take sin away)
You say we die daily! Its only appointed once to die. This is religious bull! You are to precious in the eyes of Jesus to not try once more to let you know you are perfect in Christ. Accept that free gift and walk with your head held high. I know religious doctrines will come to you and attack this truth but stand fast against the wicked. Jesus has given you a free ticket. You are blessed, TK

[Cindy]

TK  I had to   that you have to ask me what sin is. Are you kidding?  Have you not read the Sermon on the Mount? Jesus has magnified the Law, meaning for instant, if you are angry with your Brother, you have committed Murder in your Heart.  If you lust after a woman you have committed Adultery in your Heart.Etc.
Math. 5 all
When I say that I die daily, I put away sin.  You must be perfect, if you say you have no sin. You have never been angry at anybody since you have become a Christian? I have not said that Jesus does not take away sin.  In fact I said that He is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and confess our sins, and God will forgive our Sin's in a twinkle of an eye.  He is our perfect Sacrifice. No more Offering needed, like in the old Testament times.
Again John tells us if we believe that we have NO sin in us, we are liars and the truth is not in us.
Look I have told you how many times now, if you want to believe, you will, so this is the last time I am answering you on this subject. Watch what you say to a person!!!!!(This is religious bull)
Irene

[Tim Kraft]

Quote (Cindy @ June 10 2009,02:03)

TK  I had to   that you have to ask me what sin is. Are you kidding?  Have you not read the Sermon on the Mount? Jesus has magnified the Law, meaning for instant, if you are angry with your Brother, you have committed Murder in your Heart.  If you lust after a woman you have committed Adultery in your Heart.Etc. Math. 5 all When I say that I die daily, I put away sin.  You must be perfect, if you say you have no sin. You have never been angry at anybody since you have become a Christian? I have not said that Jesus does not take away sin.  In fact I said that He is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and confess our sins, and God will forgive our Sin's in a twinkle of an eye.  He is our perfect Sacrifice.  No more Offering needed, like in the old Testament times. Again John tells us if we believe that we have NO sin in us, we are liars and the truth is not in us. Look I have told you how many times now, if you want to believe, you will, so this is the last time I am answering you on this subject. Watch what you say to a person!!!!!(This is religious bull) Irene

Irene: If I say I have no sin it means nothing. When God says I have cleansed you and made you whole and you have been made the rithteouness of God in Christ then I agree. It would actually be blasphemy to set myself above God by saying what he said about me isn't Truth. I am what God says I am.
If what you say about a magnified Law is what you mean to say I feel sorry.There are many many scriptures but please read the third chap. of Galations. Especially at Galations 3:10…”for as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse….”! and ….no man is justified by the law in the sight of God…! Please read the next verse in I John 1:9….he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness…! I am sorry if I offended you with that comment. I shouldn't have said that to you. Peace I hope,TK

[NickHassan]

Hi TK,
Are you quoting from the books written to those who have entered through the door?
Those who climb in by other ways get short shrift.[jn10]
You must be born again.

[Tim Kraft]

Hey Nick: Please give me the scriptures that tell us how to be born again. Scriptures that actually use the words, born again. Jesus said we must be born again, but I can't find any other scriptures that tell how. Thanks, TK

[NickHassan]

Hi TK,
Listen to Jesus speaking to Nicodemus and read Jn 10 and Rom 6 then follow the way of Jesus through the Jordan.
Then observe the behaviours of the followers of Jesus bringing men into the kingdom of God.
Nothing has changed since those days .

[Cindy]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 09 2009,10:20)

Quote (Cindy @ June 08 2009,21:35) Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 07 2009,22:24) Georg: Revelation is an overview of times and events leading up to and including the life of Jesus Christ. Its an unvieling of Jesus leading up to his finished work at the end where there is spiritual picture of the river of life flowing to man from God. (out of their bellys shall flow rivers of living water) At another time Jesus told the people, …there are some of you standing here that shall not taste of death untill you see the son of man come in power and glory.He came back from death to life seveal times and showed himself to many.Look at Daniels interpretaion of the statue at 2:44,..” in the days of those kings(the Roman Empire the fourth kingdom) God will set up a Kingdom that will never be desrtoyed…” Then the Stone cut from the mountain without hands was Jesus. Even the abomination of desolation happened in approximatly 1277 BC when Antichus Epiphany destroyed the Temple and slaughtered a hog on the alter. Get ahold of a copy of Josephus who tracked all the events and movements of the Jews and recorded all in the book of Josephus. Expecially covering the time period between Malachi and the arrival of John the Baptist. I think that was one or two thousand years. The change of covenants was monumental. The old covenant was actually the old way of religious service to God. The New Covenant was established because the old was lost in sin. Everything was sin. Sin required sacrifices, worship of God required the physical temple built with hands. The tithe which was never ordained by God. The firs tithe was between Abraham and Melchesidek. All that passed away and the New Day of the Lord came. Now we are the Temple made without hands. Jesus was the fulfillment of the acceptable year of the Lord. The Jubilee! The example of the new creation of man from God was Jesus, the firstborn of many. How he was and what he did is who we are and what we can do once we clean our of our minds sin. Sin or error against God or separation from God does not exist.Sin is a mistaken thought or belief. Sin is actually believing you have sinned. If you believe that something you have said or done is a sin against God, then as Paul said, to him who thinks it is a sin, it is! The Law is fulfilled, completed, finished. Now,you are the King of your Kingdom, and Priest of your Temple, and Pastor of the church which is your body. You have the power to establish a law unto yourself by judging another as doing something wrong but God says, judge not, LEST ye be judged. If you don't want to be judged don't judge anyone else! We are in charge of our own lives. As we walk in Love we walk in communion with the fulness of God. Much more, bless all, TK TK You are as confused about the Roman empire existing 1277 BC, as you are about the rest of the stuff you say. Georg Georg: You might want to re-read what I wrote. I did not say 1277 BC was the Roman Empire. I said the abomination of desolation happened approx. 1277 BC/ Three and a half years before the arrival of Jesus. By the way if I make a typographical error shall we throw everything out? Give me a break. If you wish to shoot barbs at me please try to be accurate. Challenges I accept, I don't like anger. Peace brother, TK

TK

Speaking of anger; when you write something be sure you mean what you say, because we, the reader, can't tell.

So, let me ask you; did you mean by any chance 277 BC, when you said, “Antichus Epiphany destroyed the Temple and slaughtered a hog on the alter”? because in 1277 BC there was no temple yet.

Dan. 2:44 has nothing to do with the Roman empire, the stone that was cut without hands hit the statue on its feet and toes mixed with iron and clay, verse 34.
Read verses 41 – 43, and it should become clear to you that these toes represent yet another kingdom, mans final attempt for a “one world government”. The ten toes are all the kings/nation that make up this government, “THE UNITED NATION”. It is during the time of these kings, that the God of heaven is setting up his kingdom.

The time of Malachi was about 400 – 450 BC.

The Old Covenant, also referred to as the “law of Moses”, was done away with when Christ died on the cross. Sin required a sacrifice then, and it still does now, only now we have the sacrifice of Christ to offer up for our sins.

Your quote;
“”Sin is a mistaken thought or belief.”

You can say that again, also, you make more then typographical errors.

Georg

[Tim Kraft]

Georg: When you say the Old Covenant was done away when Christ died on the cross that is a contradiction to what Jesus said, “The Law and the Prophets were UNTIL John, since that time, the kingcom of God is preached.” Luke 16:16:—–“all the pophets and the law prophesied UNTIL John.”Matt 11:13—–I doubt you will agree with the Lord himself, actually I doubt if you will even look up the scriptures to see what they say. You seem to be locked into some end time doctrines looking for physical wars of destruction at the end of the world. The Father of Love and the prince of peace, Jesus, are not going to come to earth or send others to fight a physical war against their own human creation, ever. The wars we are to be fighting are spiritual wars against the firey darts (words) of evil. When the Truth is spoken which is good news and speaks of peace,love,joy and all the fruit of the Spirit it is refering to our relationship with God. Anything that comes against that gospel need to be rejected. The sower sows the good news and imediately a deceiver comes with destructive, deceiving words attempting to uproot the Truth. Jesus came to mend the relationship between God and man. Former religion was ended. Former beliefs in many things that could or would separate a man even further from God. Jesus clearly ended the old and preached the new. The Kingdom of God or the rule of God is withinr each individual. A reunion with God by faith in what Jesus says. If the old was still effective up until Jesus death then sacrifices would have had to continue to that time. If the church world continues to look to and prophecy about physical wars on earth they causing most of the problem. Rightly discern the Truth. This is the great and terrible day of the Lord. Its great for the peace believer and its terrible for those that belive in physical war and destruction.
Since I was wrong please tell me Georg about sin. Will you respond? 1)What is sin 2) Is it a belief 3)Is it something you do? 4) Is there just sin or multiple sins 5)Is there a list of sin's 6) Is sin spiritual or physical 7) Did Jesus do away with sin through the cross 8)Does water baptism remove sin? 9) the law being fulfilled in Jesus, if there is no law how can sin exist? If sin in not imputed then what effect does it have? In Peace, TK

[Cindy]

TK

It seems to me that you ignore end time prophesies for the sake of believing God will forgive all no matter what. God is the same, yesterday, today and for ever. Have you not read the old testament how God has punished the wicked? even his chosen people the Israelites?
God will forgive those that ask for forgiveness and repent, but he will not hesitate to destroy the unrepentant sinner.
What is sin, you ask?

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You see, if we remain in Christ, God will not impute sin to us, he will not hold it against us, but that does not mean we don't sin, and we are obligated to ask for his forgiveness, and it certainly does not mean we are free to sin as we please.
If you think that war in the future is all in my imagination, take a look at these scriptures.
Do you think we are living in that time?

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

The way our new President is talking concerning Israel, it wont be much longer for that final war to begin.

Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

What about the rest of the world?

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Tell me this, do you think God is just kidding?

Jer 25:32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
Jer 25:33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

Do you think God is just trying to scare us?
Let me tell you this, all this is exactly what will happen once the war in Israel starts.
Now, go ahead and laugh if you like.

Georg

[Tim Kraft]

Georg; For the sake of your man made doctrines you have refused the sound truth spoken of the Lord Jesus himself. To make alive the old covenant you bring to naught the New Testament cut in the blood of Jesus the Christ. Here are a couple more scriptures you will definetly want to ignor. Jesus fulfilled all righteousness.Matt 3:15—John said time is fulfilled the Kingdom is here, Mark 1:15—The prophets and the law prophesied until John, Matt 11:13—All things written in the prophets about the Son of Man were fulfilled, Luke 18:31–Search the scriptures and in them you think you have eternal life,but its is these that testify of Jesus,John 5:35—The Law led us UP TO Christ, Gal 3:24—YOU ARE BLATENTLY REFUSING THE TRUTH OF JESUS for the sake of your doctrines of men that have missed the proper timing of the covenant change.
Some people can read the scriptures without preconceived bias to war and destruction. They are blessed with the Gospel of peace through Jesus. Many people can read the Coran and find a loving God and peace. Many can't find the love and believe that if they even give up there own life in order to kill more they are rewarded by God. God is to each person the truth that they find. In the parable of the talents, when the master returned, two of the men had invested and gained more talents but the one was afraid of his master and hid the talents. He knew or believed his master was a harsh taskmaster reaping where he didn't sow. When the master found out he said so thats how you percieved me, a harsh taskmaster, and he was cast out to the pain and suffering he expected. Its your choice! Destruction is in the old, peace love and joy with God is in the New! Life and death.Choose Life! Peace, TK

[Cindy]

TK

You accuse me of ignoring scripture, and you haven't responded to a single scripture I have quoted.
How can you say, reading those scriptures, and believing what they say, is having a preconceived bias to war? How can you read those scriptures and not believe what God says in them? Only if you ignore the truth can you believe what you do.
But, then there are those that believe God is a trinity, and swear by it.
By the way, I did not write those scriptures.

Georg

[Douglas]

Quote (Cindy @ May 15 2009,22:06)

The ark provided safety from destruction that God had pronounced on the world, for Noah and his family; what will protect you from God’s wrath in the end-time? How close do you think we are to the end-time? Have you been watching the news lately?

You know, I hate to point this out – but Noah DID have to build an ark. He and his people did have to do something for themselves to survive. God didn't magically do everything for them.

Again, God will not save you – you will save yourselves or perish.

Happier not believing that? Fine with me.

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 14 2009,10:31)

Quote (Cindy @ May 15 2009,22:06)            The ark provided safety from destruction that God had pronounced on the world, for Noah and his family; what will protect you from God’s wrath in the end-time? How close do you think we are to the end-time? Have you been watching the news lately? You know, I hate to point this out – but Noah DID have to build an ark. He and his people did have to do something for themselves to survive. God didn't magically do everything for them. Again, God will not save you – you will save yourselves or perish. Happier not believing that? Fine with me.

Hi Douglas,

Who has said anything about not doing anything?? Noah didn't decide to build the ark on his own did he? God TOLD Noah what to do and he obeyed him. People like Georg, Irene and myself have faith that when trials come we will most certainly DO something, that something will be whatever God leads us to do.

[Cindy]

Zep 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.

As Jodi pointed out, God is telling us to do something.

Georg

[Douglas]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 14 2009,11:47)

Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 14 2009,10:31) Quote (Cindy @ May 15 2009,22:06)            The ark provided safety from destruction that God had pronounced on the world, for Noah and his family; what will protect you from God’s wrath in the end-time? How close do you think we are to the end-time? Have you been watching the news lately? You know, I hate to point this out – but Noah DID have to build an ark. He and his people did have to do something for themselves to survive. God didn't magically do everything for them. Again, God will not save you – you will save yourselves or perish. Happier not believing that? Fine with me. Hi Douglas, Who has said anything about not doing anything??  Noah didn't decide to build the ark on his own did he? God TOLD Noah what to do and he obeyed him. People like Georg, Irene and myself have faith that when trials come we will most certainly DO something, that something will be whatever God leads us to do.

Yes, God did tell Noah.

Now, what if God told someone else to do something, what then?

Or do you think God would go and tell every person what to do, instead of telling maybe one or two? Are you normally able to receive clear communications from God?

Don't forget, there's also plenty of room for initiative, I very much doubt Noah received anything more than a general instruction – certainly I can't see he'd have got a detailed instruction manual on how to do it. I imagine his family cooperated despite being unable to directly perceive the messages he received – certainly, nothing suggests his family were also told by God in the bible, does it?

[Douglas]

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 14 2009,19:26)

Zep 2:3   Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.   As Jodi pointed out, God is telling us to do something. Georg

I don't generally place much stock in the Bible or things contained within it – but here I will at least point out that that quote says “may be”, not “will be”.

That said, I also don't believe in nit picking too much over it come to think about it, inasmuch as it's been translated one or more times.

I will say one thing though – in the case of Noah – but also other instances, the story the Bible tells is of a world where practically nobody listens to the message, and most perish. I know you have faith you will listen, but honestly, how can you know and recognise the next message you need to hear? How can you discern the person carrying it from everyone else? If that person showed up right now (and here), would you know and how?

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 14 2009,10:31)

Quote (Cindy @ May 15 2009,22:06)            The ark provided safety from destruction that God had pronounced on the world, for Noah and his family; what will protect you from God’s wrath in the end-time? How close do you think we are to the end-time? Have you been watching the news lately? You know, I hate to point this out – but Noah DID have to build an ark. He and his people did have to do something for themselves to survive. God didn't magically do everything for them. Again, God will not save you – you will save yourselves or perish. Happier not believing that? Fine with me.

Hey Douglas if you don't mind me asking, just what is this all referring to.

We need to save ourselves…..save ourselves from what?

[Author]

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