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Quote (moldme @ Nov. 11 2011,16:18) Hello. to everyone, new to the site! and for those belonging to Jesus, all memory of those lost to that destruction shall be removed from their minds,
it shall be as if they had never existed at all, thus no grief, sorrow or tears.
Hi MoldMe, welcome to H-net.Would you call this a “mind-sweep”?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi moldme welcome to the site.
That was an interesting read, thankyou.And EdJ, thankyou for helping me see about the earth in the other thread too
Before Jesus died, the souls of men went to Hades in the place of the righteous or the place for the wicked. These parts of Hades were separate. Jesus took the keys of Death and Hades through the victory of his resurrection in which the powers of darkness were embarrassed and by doing so, was able to proclaim victory to those who were called the righteous dead. Upon the resurrection, graves were opened and many were also raised up. As it is written, “the dead in Christ shall rise first”, then we who remain will be caught up with them to meet the Lord.
Now when a righteous man dies, he/she is present with the Lord because Jesus holds the keys of death.
Matthew 27:50 “Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.”
Matthew 27:51 “And, behold, the veil of the Temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;”
Matthew 27:52 “And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,”
Matthew 27:53 “And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”This event was not literal, graves of dead people did not fly open and dead decaying bodies did not pop out to walk around Jerusalem. This was/is for those using spiritual eyes to discern spiritual things. Here the souls of some people which had passed on and which were then residing in Paradise, were sent by God to Jerusalem, for sometimes the living can only be convinced by actually seeing something with their physical eyes to understand fully what is happening around them at any precise moment in time.
Say you lived at this time, and the baker who you'd bought bread from had passed away, been dead for two weeks. But now there is a rumor spreading, that the one called Jesus, who had been crucified, had risen from the dead. You walk out your door and see your baker, who you know died, but yet there he is walking down the street. This was done by God to help the people of Jerusalem believe that Jesus arose from the dead. If they witnessed the walking spirit bodies of the many loved ones they had lost, then how much more so to believe Jesus arose from the dead also. This event was documentation that the man crucified was Jesus the Messiah, the Christ. And because of this many spiritual eyes were opened in Jerusalem that day, for many had witnessed Jesus on the cross, they'd seen Him die, and they had heard all the prophesies concerning the Messiah, then literally watched them being fulfilled, and then accepted it as the truth beyond doubt. They were fortunate, God allowed them to see this marvelous thing, the dead to/of the flesh, walking around alive in spirit bodies, to help their belief in Jesus to grow strong, but we who did/will not witness an event like this are called to believe without seeing. This is what is called faith
When Christ came out of the tomb, He had defeated death. But while His flesh body was in the tomb, His spirit, as it is written in I Peter 3:18-20; “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: “By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison”, “Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls(Adamic) were saved by water.”
While Christ flesh body was in the prison of the tomb, His spirit went and preached to all those in Paradise and Hades that did not have the availability of salvation, all the way back to the time of Noah, which is a figure of speech, which means to even back to Adam. When the veil in the Temple was rent, salvation was then offered to not only the Jews, but to the Gentiles also. The Gentiles were those of heathen nations and religions, but the House of Israel had been dispersed among them also, they were and are not lost to God, though they became lost to themselves. God is all loving, good, patient and kind, but most of all God is fair in His judgment and rewards toward mankind.
When this flesh world ends, at the close of the tribulation by the Antichrist, all we who are alive shall be changed into our new spiritual bodies, and then starts 1000 years of the Millennium age, which is the kingdom of Jesus Christ on earth, as recorded in Ezekiel chapters 39-48. It shall be a time of learning and discipline. At the end of that age, will be the Great White Throne Judgment, when Satan and all his followers will be turned to ashes.
1 Corinthians 15:50:
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.Paul is saying we can count on this for a fact. Flesh and blood cannot and will not be part of the Kingdom of God. Our flesh body drives us to commit sin and that is its nature. When under the nature of our flesh body, it wars with our inner man to try and control us. There is no way flesh and blood can be a part of the kingdom of God, Jesus was the one and only. As long as we are in flesh bodies, we simply cannot keep from breaking the laws of God. Our minds are incapable of remembering all the law, and then applying it to every moment of our life. But we have repentance, found in the name of Jesus and why flesh and blood will not be here when Jesus Christ's kingdom is established here on earth. Just before Jesus comes in the clouds, all alive in the flesh shall be changed, this flesh we walk around in are our graves, and these gravesclothes of flesh shall burst open and our spirit man shall usher forth for the Millennium kingdom. Every eye will then behold Jesus, coming in the clouds with great glory, and His consuming fire shall destroy all the rudiments, those cast off flesh bodies and everything else flesh man deemed so important. We shall meet the Lord in the air, air being “breath”, the spirit body, not the flesh and spirit body being reunited for resurrection.
Luke 20:38:
For he is not a God of the dead(flesh), but of the living(spirit): for all live unto him.Quote (moldme @ Nov. 12 2011,04:46) This event was not literal, graves of dead people did not fly open and dead decaying bodies did not pop out to walk around Jerusalem.
You don't think that this had anything to do with Jesus having the keys of death and unlocking the righteous who were in Hades?Did not Jesus come to free us from the power of death?
Do not the dead rise first?
Are we not present with the Lord when we pass on?No one is saying that dead bodies walked around the streets of Jerusalem.
The graves were opened is signifying that those in the grave were released.t8,
It had everything to do with Jesus having the keys of death, but I feel He unlocked those who had tried to live righteous lives in Paradise and also unlocked those who had been unrighteous from Hades, all had to have the opportunity to receive God's grace through Jesus Christ.
Yes, Jesus did come and free us from the power of death, hell and the grave!
Yes, at this time, after Jesus resurrection, the dead do rise first, their spirit goes to be with the Father immediately, to either Paradise or Hades, and all are waiting, as Jesus is waiting, for the appointed time of His return.
Yes, we are present with Lord when we pass on. Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father, those of the elect who have already died are with Him, they are the saints and He rules and reigns over those in Paradise and Hades as well.For those believing in “soul sleep”, that the soul/spirit either remains in the corpse or is sent back into the corpse at the moment of Jesus coming, when the graves will literally and suddenly burst open and allow the believers, of flesh and spirit to enter His rest, is why that comment was made. Flesh and blood has no part in heaven, only soul/spirit.
I don't see the word graves as a literal place of burial in the ground, but as the flesh being made up of the same elements of the earth, the flesh is then the grave of the soul/spirit. At birth these flesh vessels we call bodies begins to die, but the soul/spirit living within it never ages, a flesh body is simply a jar of clay housing a beautiful treasure enclosed within it, waiting to return to the Father who gave it. Hopefully those returning at death know Jesus as Savior, so they can be in Paradise and not Hades. But even at the end, God not willing to lose one soul to Satan, will discipline those in Hades and those found in spiritual adultery at Jesus return and they shall be able to attain salvation by works during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. Our God is just, holy, righteous and fair, He has been longsuffering with mankind, and has provided mankind a way back into His family. We have an awesome God!
Ed J,
Sort of sounds like it, but praise God for His goodness toward us, that He would not want us to grieve for those lost, that we should only know love, peace and joy throughout eternity.
God bless!
God's grace is his to give, but I would imagine that he would extend that same grace to all men one way or another.
T8,
Quote Before Jesus died, the souls of men went to Hades in the place of the righteous or the place for the wicked. These parts of Hades were separate. That would be Tartarus and the paradise (pleasure garden) of Hades which still exist as Hades has not yet been thrown into Gehenna.
Quote Jesus took the keys of Death and Hades through the victory of his resurrection in which the powers of darkness were embarrassed and by doing so, was able to proclaim victory to those who were called the righteous dead. I do not follow what you write here as you seem to be mixing scriptures in a way that is strange to me.
This is what I know of the keys of Death and Hades.
Quote Revelation 1:18
King James Version (KJV)18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Quote Matthew 16
King James Version (KJV)18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.He triumphed over sin, and thus death and Hades since the wages of sin is death, by his one act of self sacrifice.
Quote Colossians 2
King James Version (KJV)11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.Quote Upon the resurrection, graves were opened and many were also raised up.
Your timeline is wrong on this point as certain of the graves in Jerusalem were opened upon his death and not his resurrection.Quote Matthew 27
King James Version (KJV)50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.Quote Now when a righteous man dies, he/she is present with the Lord because Jesus holds the keys of death. Quote 2 Corinthians 5
King James Version (KJV)6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.I believe you have you are incorrect in your timeline as it is written “For the Lord himself shall descend”.
Quote 1 Thessalonians 4:16
King James Version (KJV)16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
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