Lazarus and the rich man

Participant

Pierre! In the Millennium Christ will teach only the truth. To think that only the second resurrected Saints will be there is for what? they already know the truth…. You don't believe that people that will produce and have Babies? And what about those Babies that were aborted? They will not be there? When will they have a chance to hear the truth? Or do you believe they will get the Lake of Fire like some Ministers believe? That would be cruel…..Not everyone will be reign with Christ in the first resurrection.
Peace Irene

January 18, 2011 at 3:16 am#233584

Participant

Marty, you are right, these Scriptures are hard to understand. Jesus gave us this parable in order to show us that being selfish and greedy will not be rewarded. The beggar waqs meek and He will inherit the earth…. The last part of that parable will be next……Thank you for your understanding…
Peace Irene

January 18, 2011 at 3:42 am#233588

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 18 2011,20:12)

Irene

why was procreation given ? to multiply on the surface of the earth,right

how many people is that ??

Mt 22:30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven

Lk 20:34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage.
Lk 20:35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage,

Irene you will be my sister forever ,

to me there will be no babies but people like spiritual babies ,what the first resurrection as to teach and bring into Christ and his father,

and like Paul and Jesus among lions, serpens,wolfs,ect,because the second resurrection will be people from among all the generations and nations,

and the time allowed by God is not known to me now.

Pierre

January 18, 2011 at 10:19 am#233608

Participant

Gene,

Scripture makes it clear that there is a difference between the soul and the spirit though translators, like many, are confused about which is which. The spirit is the councilor of the human soul as Jesus calls the Holy Spirit the holy councilor. The soul is the essential human and thus when destroyed means the human is no more. Here is a couple of more scriptures to attest to that.

1 Peter 1:9(NIV)

for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Matthew 16:26(NIV)

What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?

January 18, 2011 at 10:22 am#233609

Participant

Irene,

You may agree with Gene but you do not agree with the following two scriptures who speak of the ghosts of martyrs that will come to life at the time set by God. There is no mention of ghost demons in scripture. There is mention of ghosts; which are the souls of the dead. Jesus speaks of ghosts in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. The soul of the dead rich man even asks to become free roaming. The Hebrew words either translated to ghosts, necromancer, or necromancy are written in scripture.

The denial of the mention of these living souls is similar to Gene’s denial of demons which are also testified of in scripture. Are you denying scripture mentions them or just do not understand the living soul of a dead person is a ghost?

The souls of the dead yet live and such living souls are called ghosts.

Do you remember Adam, his desires, his fears, or his hopes? Does Adam have any hope for salvation or fear of damnation as he is now subject to judgment?

January 18, 2011 at 7:13 pm#233645

Participant

kerwin

is this topic now about ghost???

Pierre

January 19, 2011 at 1:02 am#233689

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2011,20:22)

Irene,

The souls of the dead yet live and such living souls are called ghosts.

Do you remember Adam, his desires, his fears, or his hopes? Does Adam have any hope for salvation or fear of damnation as he is now subject to judgment?

Kerwin! What Scripture is there that Humans turn into Ghosts? Always back up with what you say with Scriptures… OK
Peace Irene

January 19, 2011 at 1:34 am#233700

Participant

Pierre! The question that I still have is that yes, those who will overcome will enter His rest. However not all will be Spirit beings….

Here is the next about the meek. Who are the meek? All those who are like the beggar. Only if your name is written in the book of life, will you receive eternal life. This parable shows that the rich man was not written in the book of life.

Jesus is telling us through the rich mans parable that it is important what kind of attitude we have. Do we love even those who hate us? Do we help those who need help? Or do we tell them, go and be warm, God be with you….The rich man didn't even see the beggar. I also believe in today's world that there are those who don't see the need of others…..Some are so busy with what they are doing, they forget all who are around them…..Even here on Heaven Net we can make a difference by being nice, not attack others who are seeing Scriptures not the way they do…..

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I believe that is where the rich man found himself, then he realized what he had done, rather what he failed to do; it brought him to his senses, but to late. The rich man;s cries were not answered.
Peace and Love

January 19, 2011 at 2:10 am#233706

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 19 2011,18:34)

Pierre! The question that I still have is that yes, those who will overcome will enter His rest. However not all will be Spirit beings….

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Irene

i will ask you a question;wen you help or not help your fellow men ;

what is it do to the one in need and what it do to the one who deny to help??

Pierre

January 19, 2011 at 3:47 am#233722

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 19 2011,12:10)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 19 2011,18:34)

Pierre! The question that I still have is that yes, those who will overcome will enter His rest. However not all will be Spirit beings….

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Irene

i will ask you a question;wen you help or not help your fellow men ;

what is it do to the one in need and what it do to the one who deny to help??

Pierre

Pierre! Jesus in that parable already answered you. The rich man did not even see the beggarr, and so do some in our society do the same….If someone you know is of need, then knowing about that we should help….We are helping with our Taxes, but some fall through the track, and don't receive the help they need, IMO those we should help….. If I know that one of our Family member needs help I help!!!!!!
Peace and Love Irene

January 19, 2011 at 4:21 am#233743

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 19 2011,20:47)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 19 2011,12:10)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 19 2011,18:34)

Pierre! The question that I still have is that yes, those who will overcome will enter His rest. However not all will be Spirit beings….

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Irene

i will ask you a question;wen you help or not help your fellow men ;

what is it do to the one in need and what it do to the one who deny to help??

Pierre

Irene

that s not the answer,

just answer the question ,we get back to the beggar and rich man after,

Pierre

January 19, 2011 at 9:53 am#233774

Participant

Irene,

When a human dies his soul, which is his essential self, is temporary without a body as the body returns to the dust of which it was made. The soul whose body has stopped functioning is sometimes referred to as a spirit of the dead,aka ghosts, as in Proverbs 2:18. It is possible that Solomon is speaking of the souls of men and animals in Ecclesiastes 3:21. I am not sure of the answer to your question at this point as I am still learning.

Proverbs 2:18(NIV)

Surely her house leads down to death and her paths to the spirits of the dead.

Ecclesiastes 3:21(NIV)

Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”

January 19, 2011 at 9:54 am#233775

Participant

Pierre,

The topic is about the parable of the rich man and Lazarus which features ghosts communicating with one another in Sheol. One point of the parable is that those who do not believe Mosses and the Prophets will not believe if one rises from the dead as did Jesus. This point is brought up after the soul of the rich man petitions Abraham to let him roam the earth as a free roaming ghost in order to warn his brothers of their doom if they do not repent. The parable also calls on its hearers to repent less they come to suffer the torment of the rich man instead of the comfort of Lazarus. A third thing it teaches is that once death has claimed a person there is no longer a chance to change their ways.

January 19, 2011 at 3:16 pm#233780

Participant

Kerwin!

Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.

Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.'

I don't think this is taken literal that Abraham Ghost is roaming around….remember it is a parable, to show us to be humble like the beggar, or we will get the Lake of Fire….And I also don't believe that God will torment those that get the Lake of Fire will burn forever, only until the fire has been burned up….In

Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.

We have been warned, hope all that come and read this will heed…..End of Story….

Peace and Love Irene

January 19, 2011 at 3:39 pm#233782

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 19 2011,19:53)

Irene,

Proverbs 2:18(NIV)

Surely her house leads down to death and her paths to the spirits of the dead.

Ecclesiastes 3:21(NIV)

Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”

Kerwin!

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

This Scripture is clear that the dead are not roaming around, and neither is Abraham…..His body turned to dust and the Spirit goes back to God who gave it….

Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all [is] vanity.

Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Here it shows you that the spirit of man goes upward, while the spirit of beast goes down…..Is there a spirit in beasts?

Kerwin Humans do not become Ghosts……Demons are….to scare those that lets them…..and they will parade themselves as Humans…..

Peace and Love Irene

January 19, 2011 at 8:16 pm#233813

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 19 2011,21:21)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 19 2011,20:47)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 19 2011,12:10)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 19 2011,18:34)

Pierre! The question that I still have is that yes, those who will overcome will enter His rest. However not all will be Spirit beings….

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Irene

i will ask you a question;wen you help or not help your fellow men ;

what is it do to the one in need and what it do to the one who deny to help??

Pierre

Irene

that s not the answer,

just answer the question ,we get back to the beggar and rich man after,

Pierre

Irene

Ecc 4:8 There was a man all alone;
he had neither son nor brother.
There was no end to his toil,
yet his eyes were not content with his wealth.
“For whom am I toiling,” he asked,
“and why am I depriving myself of enjoyment?”
This too is meaningless—
a miserable business!

Mic 7:2 The godly have been swept from the land;
not one upright man remains.
All men lie in wait to shed blood;
each hunts his brother with a net.

Mal 1:2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD.
“But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’

Mt 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Mt 5:23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mt 5:24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.
Mt 7:4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

Mt 18:35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

Pierre

January 20, 2011 at 2:17 am#233882

Participant

Pierre! Thank you for your post. Good Scriptures, but the parable of lazarus and the rich man is enough for me…..it shows us to be meek and not self righteous….
Peace and Love Irene

January 20, 2011 at 4:50 am#233902

Participant

Irene

Lk 16:19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.
Lk 16:20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores
Lk 16:21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
Lk 16:22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.
Lk 16:23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Lk 16:24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
Lk 16:25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
Lk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
Lk 16:27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house,
Lk 16:28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
Lk 16:29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
Lk 16:30 “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
Lk 16:31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

==============================
this parable could be seen in a different way;

the rich man WOULD BE THE PHARESEES,AND SADUSEENS ,DR OF THE LAW;

the poor man Lazarus,COULD BE THE COMON PEOPLE OF ISRAEL ,that were starving for the word of God,but was refused the knowledge,and so die without having received good access to the word of God ,but he (the poor) was carried in Abraham bossom.

wen the rich in knowledge and good living he died to and is send to hell,

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house,
Lk 16:28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
Lk 16:29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
Lk 16:30 “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
Lk 16:31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead

this is why Jesus says if you would believe MOSES you would believe me because Moses spook of me.
even after Christ came back from the dead ,they did not believed .AND THIS THE RICHMAN ASK TO ABRAHAM.

Pierre

January 20, 2011 at 11:56 am#233925