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The Bible teaches clearly that we need to be born again of the Holy Spirit. This is one of the basic teachings of our faith as outlined in Heb 6.2. It is also clear that this was imparted usually by the Laying on of Hands by fellow believers Acts 8.17,9.17,19.6,. Why is it not part of your salvation teaching? God chose to pour out His Spirit without human agency too as at Jesus's baptism,Acts 2.2,!0.47. Hands were also laid on christians for specific purposes.
I agree. Its basically ignored by todays christians and yet the book of Acts should be the churches road map.
I agree with the laying on of hands to impart gifts and ministries etc. But the salvation page is about salvation only.
Hopefully once a person realises his need of salvation and has repented of his sin and believes that God sent his Son (Jesus) to die for him and was resurrected and sits at the right hand of the Majesty on high interceeding for us, then such a person can fulfill all that God has for them. If they are serious about serving God then they will be baptized to set a seal on their new found faith in God. After this they can receive the Spirit by the laying on of hands and many other things.
But the salvation page is about salvation only. I am trying to get people to first base, in order to participate in the living faith that God wants us to enjoy. It wasn't meant to be a page that describes all things. I doubt anyone would read the page if it tried to fit all things into it.
My opinion and I could be wrong.
You seem to preach that false teaching that salvation is by faith alone. The bible makes it very clear in 1 Peter 3.20-21 that baptism in water is an intimate part of our salvation. Roman 6 also shows that baptism in Water[death of the seed] and Resurrection [to new life through the Holy Spirit received through the laying on of hands] is essential to salvation. Neither are additional extras.This false teaching has resulted in major apostasy and rebellion against the way of Jesus. The fruit is a dead confused church lost in the wilderness.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2004,14:47) You seem to preach that false teaching that salvation is by faith alone.
This is what I preached on the salvation page.You need to acknowledge that God exists and is a rewarder of those who seek him.
You must also acknowledge that you are a sinner.You need to ask God for forgiveness of your sins and promise Him that you will serve Him and stop sinning. You are required to ask God for forgiveness of your sins from now on and make an effort not to continue sinning. (Please Note that everyone sins, but what is required from you is the effort to not practice a sinful life, but rather do the will of God).
You must believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died in your place for your sins that you may go free.
You are required to be obedient to God from now on. This is easy if you really love God. Being obedient includes Jesus command to be baptized (to acknowledge your acceptance of the gospel) and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
If you live in Gods will, you will have the victory over this wicked world and you will enter paradise when you die.
1 John 2:17 says “The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever”.etc…
Certainly Acts 2.38 says “and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. But this is shown in Acts also to not be an automatic result but the gift was given usually through the laying on of Hands. Philip preached and baptised only and later Peter and John laid hands on believers in Acts 8, and in Acts 19 Paul asked believers if they had received the Holy Spirit,then laid hands on them after baptism when he found it was not so. In Lk11. 9-13, after explaining how to pray, and saying “ask and you will receive”, Jesus said, relating how fathers treat their children, “How much more shall your Heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”
Repentance and true Water baptism
Saves us.1Peter 3 20-21
Clothes us with Jesus Gal 3. 27, Lk 15.22
Brings us back into the family of God such that we can again approach God our Father in prayer Rom 8.15
Writes our name in the Book of Life. Lk 10.20, Rev 20.12But if you want to be raptured or be part of the blessed first resurrection you need the indwelling Holy Spirit. 1Thess 4.15-17, Rom 8 11, Rev 20.6. 1 Cor 15
God knew the Laying on of Hands would fall into disuse so He urged all reborn into the kingdom to seek this blessing from the Father through prayer.Lk11.11.
“Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God”
God's way is simple enough for children to enter.
Hi Nick,
Is this person saved?
1) Believes in God
2) Believes that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.
3) Believes that Jesus died for the sins of all humanity and was then risen from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God interceeding from us.
4) Repents of their sins and asks for forgiveness for sins committed.
5) Is baptized in water as a symbol of death and is raised out of the water as a symbol of life and in recognition of the redeeming work of God through his son.
6) Seeks God's will for their life and passionately acts and speaks in a way that is acceptable for a believer.Remember that I am just asking if such a person is saved and lets assume that the person has done and is doing all 6 points above, without deceit.
thx
Yes t8
But they are in a highly vulnerable condition.If you found yourself in a war and went to the Commander of the army of the side you know was going to win ,and signed up ,would that be all you do? Would you not go also to the quartermaster for stores, maps, torch and a suitable uniform.? Would you not also go to the armoury and get protective clothing and a rifle? The enemy is strong.
The advice of Jesus was to follow Him, to walk while the Light was with you. He warned a time would come when the night would come on and no one could work. Paul said to set your heart on spiritual gifts and the first gift is that of the Spirit which Jesus said to ask the Father for. Should we not obey?
I agree with you, that we need the Holy Spirit in order to be affective for God. For the power of God is the only true power and doing things in our own strength is vanity.
But I take you back to my point about the salvation page. It is to get people in the game, not to get them in the game and hit a home run in 1 go.
I personally believe that once someone has accepted the gospel and is baptized in water to symbolize this acceptance, then they will move on to greater things if they are fellowshipping with true believers. If I tell people they need to have hands laid on them to be saved, being naive and vulnerable they might let any ol person do it, which could be disasterous if someone with a bad spirit laid hands on them for example.
As it is written, one man sows and another reaps. I trust that Christ Jesus will complete the work he started. I am not trying to be everything to everybody.
The salvation page is only a starter. If a person reads it and is serious about serving God and repenting of their sin, then I can show them the way, but they will be the one who walks in it. All the things that they need will be shown to them, if they are hearing from God.
The salvation page is not designed to do it all. It is to get them in right standing with God and then God will show them himself.
t8 I understand what you are saying. Are you still perfectly happy with the information provide in your page on salvation then? If so I hope your Master agrees with you as it is He we serve and I think He would suggest certain matters then be made clearer?
Hi,
Acts 8.14f
” ..They sent them Peter and John who came down andf prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit…then they began laying their hands on them and they were receiving the Holy Spirit”Hebrews 6.2″of instructions about washings, and laying in of hands…”
Where is this still being done and showing the fruit?
Hi,
This is how the gift of the Holy Spirit was originally given and some times still is. More often now through prayer it is received.Quote (t8 @ July 17 2004,04:13) Hi Nick, Is this person saved?
1) Believes in God
2) Believes that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.
3) Believes that Jesus died for the sins of all humanity and was then risen from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God interceeding from us.
4) Repents of their sins and asks for forgiveness for sins committed.
5) Is baptized in water as a symbol of death and is raised out of the water as a symbol of life and in recognition of the redeeming work of God through his son.
6) Seeks God's will for their life and passionately acts and speaks in a way that is acceptable for a believer.Remember that I am just asking if such a person is saved and lets assume that the person has done and is doing all 6 points above, without deceit.
thx
Hi Nick,Is this person saved?
1) Believes in God
2) Believes that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.
3) Believes that Jesus died for the sins of all humanity and was then risen from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God interceeding from us.
4) Repents of their sins and asks for forgiveness for sins committed.
5) Is baptized in water as a symbol of death and is raised out of the water as a symbol of life and in recognition of the redeeming work of God through his son.
6) Seeks God's will for their life and passionately acts and speaks in a way that is acceptable for a believer.Remember that I am just asking if such a person is saved and lets assume that the person has done and is doing all 6 points above, without deceit.
thx
Hi Nick,Is this person saved?
1) Believes in God
2) Believes that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.
3) Believes that Jesus died for the sins of all humanity and was then risen from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God interceeding from us.
4) Repents of their sins and asks for forgiveness for sins committed.
5) Is baptized in water as a symbol of death and is raised out of the water as a symbol of life and in recognition of the redeeming work of God through his son.
6) Seeks God's will for their life and passionately acts and speaks in a way that is acceptable for a believer.Remember that I am just asking if such a person is saved and lets assume that the person has done and is doing all 6 points above, without deceit.
thx
Hi t8, I agree with you, whomever believes the above is saved. I also trust the Lord to take them to the next level. We must be extremely careful who we allow to touch us. With all the demonic activity that is being confused with the movement of the Holy Spirit in a lot of gatherings today it is detrimental to our salvation.
Bastian
Quote (Bastian @ Dec. 19 2005,18:40) Quote (t8 @ July 17 2004,04:13) Hi Nick, Is this person saved?
1) Believes in God
2) Believes that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.
3) Believes that Jesus died for the sins of all humanity and was then risen from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God interceeding from us.
4) Repents of their sins and asks for forgiveness for sins committed.
5) Is baptized in water as a symbol of death and is raised out of the water as a symbol of life and in recognition of the redeeming work of God through his son.
6) Seeks God's will for their life and passionately acts and speaks in a way that is acceptable for a believer.Remember that I am just asking if such a person is saved and lets assume that the person has done and is doing all 6 points above, without deceit.
thx
Hi Nick,Is this person saved?
1) Believes in God
2) Believes that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.
3) Believes that Jesus died for the sins of all humanity and was then risen from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God interceeding from us.
4) Repents of their sins and asks for forgiveness for sins committed.
5) Is baptized in water as a symbol of death and is raised out of the water as a symbol of life and in recognition of the redeeming work of God through his son.
6) Seeks God's will for their life and passionately acts and speaks in a way that is acceptable for a believer.Remember that I am just asking if such a person is saved and lets assume that the person has done and is doing all 6 points above, without deceit.
thx
Hi Nick,Is this person saved?
1) Believes in God
2) Believes that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.
3) Believes that Jesus died for the sins of all humanity and was then risen from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God interceeding from us.
4) Repents of their sins and asks for forgiveness for sins committed.
5) Is baptized in water as a symbol of death and is raised out of the water as a symbol of life and in recognition of the redeeming work of God through his son.
6) Seeks God's will for their life and passionately acts and speaks in a way that is acceptable for a believer.Remember that I am just asking if such a person is saved and lets assume that the person has done and is doing all 6 points above, without deceit.
thx
Hi t8, I agree with you, whomever believes the above is saved. I also trust the Lord to take them to the next level. We must be extremely careful who we allow to touch us. With all the demonic activity that is being confused with the movement of the Holy Spirit in a lot of gatherings today it is detrimental to our salvation.
Bastian
Hi bastion,
Belief and understanding of course saves nobody. It just gives them no excuse because that knowledge should lead us to respond to the message.
Beyond that:Yes.
Bearing in mind
Rom 8.9
“..But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him”But what does “have” mean here?
In John 20 Jesus appears to the disciples and says
“Receive the Holy Spirit…”
and yet told them in Lk 24 to
” stay in the city till they are clothed with power from on high”
There are two ways to receive the Spirit. One is Spirit baptism. Fruit is the only proof.hi Nick,
I agree there are two ways to recieve the Holy Spirit. Prayer and laying on of hands. You say that fruit is the only proof of the spirit. But what would you say to those who say that the tongues of manifestation are the proof. 1 Corinthinans 12:7
I also believe there was a baptism of fire if I remember right, and there was someone breathing on them. I might be mistaken, also… careful consideration
Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.
21I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.
22Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.
23Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
24The sins of some men are obvious, reaching the place of judgment ahead of them; the sins of others trail behind them. 25In the same way, good deeds are obvious, and even those that are not cannot be hidden.
Careful, make sure you know who you are laying your hands on they could have inner sins they arn't revealing. Remember as said the first laying on of hands was how the cliche “scapegoat came into play”
The goat designated by lot for the Lord is to be used as a sin offering, while the goat designated for Azazel “shall be left standing alive before the Lord, to make expiation with it and to send it off to the wilderness to Azazel” (Lev. 16:10). Aaron was to “lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat and confess over it all the iniquities and transgressions of the Israelites, whatever their sins, putting them on the head of the goat; and it shall be sent off to the wilderness by someone designated for the task. Thus the goat shall carry on it all their iniquities to an inaccessible region; and the goat shall be set free in the wilderness” (Lev. 16:21-22). Leviticus also says that “He who set the goat for Azazel free shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water; after that he may reenter the camp” (16:26).
Woutlaw,
Take a look at 1 Cornthians 14, I am a firm believer in the whole Do Not Speak in Tongues Unless an Interpreter is there, and if you are speaking in tongues let your mind pray also.
Also, There is noted an Ungifted Man, which then Paul/Holy Spirit/God puts in the same sentence as an unbeliever, but we cannot assume that the ungifted man is an unbeliever just has not recieved the baptism of fire, but yet Paul rebukes the people speaking in tongues without interpretation and says the people who Prophesy(IE instructed and encouraged… Unbelievers Falling on face after conviction, IE Not telling Future, but telling the Sins which are currently being commited and if not so the end decleration IE Exorhted and Encouragment IE edification and (H)exhortation and consolation) are actually edifying the entire body and are at much more benefit unless an interpretation is made. Now we do have to take into account the lists of other spiritual gifts that come into account. Which the lists go on listed in the bible in various places so on so forth. So to the people that speak merely on speaking in tongues, there are many more gifts then just tongues. many that can edify the church.
remember, For one who (E)speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks (F)mysteries.
3But one who prophesies speaks to men for (G)edification and (H)exhortation and consolation.
4One who (I)speaks in a tongue (J)edifies himself; but one who (K)prophesies (L)edifies the church.
Also I would encourage you to be extremely careful when around a large gathering of people speaking in tongues, many call out interpretations that speak to the entire people listening, or what people should do so on so forth. Remember the interpretation is ment what that Gentlemen would be speaking to God, from his Spirit. I also say Gentlement because woman are suppose to keep silent in gatherings. I am not sorry for the pollitcally incorrect statement, it is what the bible commands of woman, sorry ladies just da way it rolls.
Good way to roll out an all biblical Church gathering, the ones that believe that God/Jesus are Different, I place this because all those that believe in the trinity are the Anti-Christ as written throughout the bible such marks are in 1 John all the way out to Revelation is to follow the simple end note discussion from Paul/God/Holy Spirit.
What is the outcome then, (AQ)brethren? When you assemble, (AR)each one has a (AS)psalm, has a (AT)teaching, has a (AU)revelation, has a (AV)tongue, has an (AW)interpretation Let (AX)all things be done for edification.
Cheers
Prophesy Explenation:
1 Timothy 4:9-14
1 Cornthians 14:3Mainly 1 Corinthians 14 if anyone has any questions about other passages please email me at the listed email addy since I do not check the forums often.
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